When page returns to kgb safehouse in season 6, is that her way of saying she's still being a spy?

Hey everybody I just got into the show and wow I’m late to the party, and don’t I regret it. It’s amazing so far I just finished season two episode eight and I just wanted someplace to talk about the show because nobody I know has seen it (I plan to change that. Please note that none of these theories are entirely serious I’m just intrigued about how certain storylines will go, forgive me if they sound completely out of whack.

1. Elizabeth and Phillip are gonna seriously fuck up with Paige and Henry. I mean we’re already seeing it but I don’t think they realise how much they’re isolating their kids and not all religious plotlines are evil but I do think something weirds going to happen with Paige and this youth group, maybe she’ll get groomed in some way or she could just be a Christian and nothing bad happens which I honestly hope so because it would suck to see. Henry just apologised for breaking into that families house but I honestly don’t think it’ll end there because Elizabeth and Phillip refuse to acknowledge that this is because of the lack of time they spend with their kids. I mean if Paige hadn’t joined church and stayed suspicious of Elizabeth then she could’ve gotten extremely close to finding out. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Henry became a problem child

2. Speaking of Henry and his peeping Tom act, I think he’s going to end up seeing something crazy with his telescope but what I have no clue, maybe Stan and Nina if she’d ever be stupid enough to go to his house but I think at some point the plot will incorporate the telescope again.

3. Martha is going to die (at some point, maybe soon though). I already got worried when she was sick thinking she was pregnant with ‘Clark’s’ child but I think she’s going to increasingly want more in the relationship or grow suspicious of Clark to the point they’ll have no other choice but to kill her.

4. Not a theory but I’m intrigued as to how people view Nina and Elizabeth. This being an American show about Russians during the Cold War I’m intrigued as to if people feel more sympathy for the Americanised charterers like Phillip and dislike the more pro Russia ones. Personally, as someone about two and a half seasons in, I completely understand both sides but I don’t feel any hatred towards Elizabeth and Nina, you can sort of tell when we as an audience are meant to dislike a character but so far I feel as if their actions are completely justifiable as spies for a different country. I don’t see why I should find Elizabeth to be too patriotic considering she was willing to marry and have kids with a total stranger for cover, if anything she’s just got more work ethic than Phillip has. Nina I think was stuck between a rock and a hard place and decided she shouldn’t have to move which I respect, I don’t think she’s evil for two timing Stan because well… he’s doing that to his wife with Nina anyway, his work wife has a work husband who would have thought. Plus, Nina will ultimately be better off working both sides but with Oleg I’m not too sure since they entered a sexual relationship I think he’s going to end up wanting Nina all to himself and exposing her in a machismo show of strength against Stan, possibly leading to Nina just dying.

5. Not a theory but I’m glad that Elizabeth’s sexual assault hasn’t been swept under the rug. Too many shows use rape as a way of saying wow this strong female character is tough to the core she’s not even sad about being raped, so I’m glad to see that when Phillip got rough with her as “Clark” they showed that she’s still reeling from her past. But that scene was pretty brutal nonetheless I don’t think she even needed a past sexual assault to be uncomfortable about how 0-100 that went with no warning, yes she was being playful but he could’ve also been a bit crude and just told her how rough he gets in the act instead of all that.

6. This is probably a very later season thing but Phillips secret son, if he exists he’s definitely going to appear. I think the son won’t be his though, it’ll probably be a manipulation tactic to keep his head in the game as so to speak, a very long con.

That’s it really ! Really enjoying the show so far and just wanted to get my thoughts out there, if I’ve accidentally started a longtime fandom argument I apologise because I truly haven’t seen anything about this show

ALL DAY (and night) long. Come at me, bro.

I want one of those little in the palm cameras...how handy. I can think of uses for them in my work.

Probably one of my top tv series ever and I see myself going back to this in a while.

The ending was good >! and I’m glad they got away. That garage scene, oof, I was genuinely unsure what was gong to happen. !<

!Though, I do wish there had been a jump to a few years post and showing Henry and Paige in a kind of snapshot of their lives and the same with Philip and Elizabeth. !<

I may regret this, but "Renee is Mossad" keeps being brought up and having been told I must be in denial to not see how well it fits, I figured I'd just get it out there in a post.

If you just like the idea of Renee as Mossad (or CIA) feel free to skip!

The Culture

Philip and Elizabeth were born in the USSR during WWII and grew up there with the Cold War. Their willingness to sacrifice their entire physical and emotional selves undercover in the West is directly tied to that background. We see them struggle with sex work and get through it by telling themselves they could be directly preventing the destruction of their country, which was invaded not long ago, from their sworn enemy.

Mossad does not have the same history of expecting sex work from agents. But in this case, they're making Renee a sex worker for years, doing this one job, living 24/7 as the wife of a guy who works (sometimes) in US counter-intel, risking their ally getting angry if she's caught. It's not unreasonable, imo, to demand a very good cost/reward for Israel and Renee herself for this operation. This isn't Yossi just spying in the US, and Renee isn't bringing in Mengele. We know Mossad is badass. That's not an explanation.

The Plan

Renee is often supposed to be spying not on Stan, who doesn't even work in counter-intel for most of their marriage, but on P&E. (Another sign that perhaps the motivation for spying on Stan is weak.)

She's not there to catch them or blackmail them or even interfere with their work. Just sit across the street in their cover lives and not tell the FBI. A local pastor knowing their secret is a source of 3 seasons worth of fear and stress, but the only person suffering when US Ally Israel discovers them is Renee.

If Renee is interested in their actual spy work rather than when they mow their lawn, why marry an FBI agent neighbor? She's attached herself to a guy whose job it is to catch her and made it more likely they'd recognize her if she's following them.

It just seems like it's substituting complicated for clever. Isn't it easier to report on their work if you don't have to worry about waking your FBI husband sleeping next to you?

The biggest problem for me, though, is how it undermines the actual story and premise for the sake of random complications.

Platinum vs. Bronze

How Mossad has came to be connected to any of these people remains off-screen, since P&E once crossing paths with Mossad agents for a single night doesn't explain it and the show only ever suggests Renee could be KGB.

When Philip meets the Mossad agent in S2, the guy refers to him as the "platinum spy" to his bronze, because Directorate S are not standard spies. That's stated multiple times. A side story about how Israel has its own Directorate S agents undermines that.

Especially when they top what the Soviets are doing. Remember how it was supposed to be crazy that the KGB married an FBI secretary? You know what's ballsier than that? Marrying an actual FBI agent! While protecting Soviet Illegals!

The Story

Renee as KGB (or not) is part of the Stan/Philip arc. The KGB has years of personal intel on this guy from Philip and Nina. That's why lines like "She's like you, but a girl" sound ominous. It's why Philip himself makes the connection. It's not a crazy suspicion on his part, but it's also the natural result of his guilt. He has done this to Stan.

That's also why all the suspicious moments about Renee are about her spying on Stan and the FBI, not P&E.

Renee as Mossad isn't part of any story, past or present. It's a wacky coincidence with no connection to anything. Philip had nothing to do with it. He didn't betray the KGB by sharing his suspicions about Renee with Stan, he accidentally foiled an Israeli intelligence op against the US! All those reports on Stan were irrelevant. Israel created Philip, but a girl, without any special knowledge about Stan off-screen.

And that's why I don't get why the Mossad theory is considered so seriously!

What was it like?

!I thought I was ready after finishing the series in July, but little Paige and Henry eating breakfast just makes me want to sob!<

I love that transition when Gabriel back to Russia and Claudia becomes Philip and Liz handler again.

Gabriel plays a role of lovely father. He makes tea, bake pie, plays scrabble. Claudia from the other hand just show up and have some coffee in paper cup for herself only.

She plays similar role like Gabriel in season 6 when she handles Paige. Lovely grandma.

Interesting is also that Gabriel despise his soften touch treat Philip and Elizabeth much worse than Claudia. He was always so manipulative. Claudia was here is the deal. Accept and go on.

This came up in another discussion and it's one of the things I loved in S6. When Harvest dies, he gives three messages to Philip to pass on, presumably in descending order of importance.

To his mother, in Russian, he says he loves her, assures her he had a good life, and that he won't forget what she tried to do for him.

To the Centre, in English, he says where the sensor is.

And to his father, again in Russian, that he's a son of a bitch and he's glad he never saw him again.

We, the audience, don't know this guy and have no reason to care about his family history, so this scene is obviously in there for purely thematic reasons. This guy's parents disappeared from his life just as P&E are going to disappear from their kids' lives in just a few weeks. Though they don't know it, they've run out of time to make new memories.

Elizabeth has spent her last couple of years working Paige like an asset while pretending she's an agent, and drifting so far away from Henry she struggles to talk to him. Philip's been in conflict with Paige, but hasn't lost contact (and is more honest) and is focused on supporting everything Henry wants to be and do.

Harvest's messages to his parents are two extremes--his mother gets the message every parent dreams of from their kids; his father gets every parents' nightmare.

We don't know how the Jennings kids will feel about their parents at the end of their lives--Harvest's own feelings may have even changed throughout the years. But it seems intentional--and a bit chilling--that each of the Jennings kids gets a line that lightly echoes Harvest's. For Henry it's saying that although work always came first in his house (something he's clearly internalized himself) his dad "makes the effort" with him as a parent and with Paige it's her telling Elizabeth that she should have "gotten as far away from her as possible."

The thing I love most about this--and I remember rewatching the scene to check it even the first time it aired--is how the Harvest scene is shot and edited. He's in the back of the van with Philip, who he asks to pass on his last words. During his messages to his parents, the scene cuts back and forth between close ups of him and Philip. Harvest checks at the end of each message that Philip got it: "You'll remember?"/"I will" for Mom and "Не забудешь?" / "Ни слова" for Dad.

In the middle of those two, though, he gives the message about the Centre. Philip reacts to differently to that one, since knows about it from Oleg. But here--and only here--Elizabeth also reacts. The camera cuts to her for the first time as she turns around, revealing to us that she can also hear Harvest. Once Harvest starts talking about his father, the camera goes back to Philip/Harvest until he's finished and Elizabeth asks for directions.

So in this scene where a dying child lays out what could almost be two prophecies about parenting just weeks before she disappears from her own kids' lives, the show deliberately shows Elizabeth ignoring him because only the work part holds importance to her. There's a reason the loss of both kids are played as blows to Elizabeth first and foremost.

Regardless I still loved the show. It's just that I never rooted for Philip and Elisabeth. In my eyes they did horrible things and they should pay their dues. As you can tell I didn't like the finale for that reason. It didn't give me the katharsis I wanted. Also I didn't like the parking scene because I felt like Stan would have handled it differently. I guess for me their fate was always death because I couldn't picture them going back to Russia. So I felt a little disappointed. P.s. I also thought that the writers could have found a more interesting way to deal with Henry than sending him off to a boarding school and then abandoning him in the US. P.s.2 Does anyone really care about Paige?

Philip and Elizabeth were the protagonists, and we, as viewers, found ourselves rooting them on and relishing in their spy craft wins. Did you constantly check yourself, and say "wait a minute...I'm cheering for the wrong team here?"

This is driving me to distraction :-) In the series of vignettes accompanied by Crowded House's Don't Dream It's Over, Elizabeth showers in a hotel room, then looks out at the Lincoln and Washington monuments, while a man sleeps in the bed. Who is the man? Some rando?

I’ve just finished the entire series and can’t stop thinking about it. For me they were:

• Tooth pulling scene
• Paige walking in on Phillip and Elizabeth having sex
• Phillip revealing the disguise to Martha
• Phillip and Elizabeth high and laughing
• Phillip fighting Paige
• Nina confessing to Arkady
• ‘We had a job to do’
• The whole finale tbh

what are the thoughts on the characters’ last (or next) chapters? Are there any happily ever afters? P&E? Stan? Paige? Henry? Martha? Oleg?

Although the ending was very good, S6 overall was painful to watch. The distance between Phillipe and Elizabeth is intentionally depicted. There are multiple scenes throughout the series where Phillipe wants to talk to Elizabeth but she is always distant in the balcony smoking. That's when you feel pain for Phillipe. There are also multiple montages of Elizabeth working hard and Phillipe dancing in the club. That's when you feel pain for Elizabeth because she is alone and under pressure.

The missions themselves are all sloppy, very poorly planned, and unsatisfactory. Paige is distant from Phillipe but we clearly see that he was right to keep insisting on keeping her out of spy business. Elizabeth works like a killing machine without any question. This is despite the fact that Phillipe has demonstrated several times that they can be used to do missions with ulterior motives that do not even align with Elizabeth's ideals.

After their final fight over Phillipe spying on Elizabeth, I wish they had a conversation which they would make up with each other but there was no time for that and they have to flee immidiately.

Just need to vent here, I hate the tension between Elizabeth and Phillip during the middle part of this season and Paige is pissing me off. :).

I have a 4 more eps left.

Spasibo for reading.

I am at my first watch so please no spoilers.

Did Arkady betray Nina? Why did he tell Beeman not to say to a Russian woman I love you regularly? What was the point if not to betray her and risk the whole operation? Will it be explained later?

First rewatch so no big spoilers please

How do the FBI not know Martha is married? Weren’t they married at a court? I know Clark’s identity is easy enough to create fake info on but how does it not come up to the FBI Martha was married and it lying about it?

There are some obvious picks put I always loved the season 1 finale, such a well put together episode, the was pretty intense

Press release from the Canadian government

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2024/10/15/prime-minister-announces-changes-senior-ranks-public-service

I started this show because everyone's raving on about how amazing it is. I'm 6 episodes deep and I don't really feel it.

The premise is really interesting, but the show seems so rigid in its narrative structure. Nothing seems to happen naturally. The protagonists just seem to always be sleeping with the people they need to be sleeping with, and always get the information they need. The FBI just happens to instantly catch a person stealing out of the embassy and turns her into their mole, and she happens to be a very pretty girl who can sleep her way into getting more information. The protagonists are Russian-raised but somehow speak flawless English with no accent. And to top it all off, the wife happens to be sleeping with a BLACK GUY of all people (presumably in the 80s) who also has a surveillance network that outclasses the FBI, who also happens to be a communist sympathizer and who will aid two known KGB operatives out of the kindness of his heart when the wife stops sleeping with him.

Am I missing something here? I'm more used to shows in the vein of Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, BCS. I expect stories to be woven naturally and not be forcefed to me. People described this show as being nuanced and very heavy, this just feels one step above CSI.

i'm re-watching the show i just saw the episode where Frank Gaad died in that unfortunate window and it got me wondering: he was not very good, was he? i mean, what kind of escape was that? fbi training in the 80s was that low? or thailand windows have some kind of technology that amerincans haven't, i don't know. i like his role, he was very strong in his beliefs, but i think that patriotic feeling put him down, unfortunately, literally.

I feel like I just lost people. I know that’s silly but I feel like I am mourning with them all. I’ve been listening to with or without you all weekend and I can’t stop replaying the train scene in my head 🥲