Recently, I’ve been breaking away from Christianity shortly after leaving Mormonism, and I want to see if this argument makes sense to the people here at the very least.

God was created to justify whatever someone wants. Because God is all good, his plan has to be also be good. We also have free will in God’s plan so that means if a man does anything, it would be a part of God's plan, which is ultimately good, therefore being justified. We see this mainly in the Old Testament when God’s punishments and decisions ultimately reinforce the Israelite customs, (see Genesis 38), which often clashes with what is right and moral. If someone can convince others that God gave them a new law, others will follow it, regardless of the law. Because “if God is with us, then who can be against us?”

Who is the devil?

Most “christians” have no idea who the entity called the devil or Satan is in the bible.

In Genesis 6:2 it states that the angels are god’s “sons”.

Genesis 6:2:

^(2) That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

In the book of Job it is reiterated that the angels are the “sons of God” but with an interesting addition.

Job 1:6:

^(6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 states:

2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Here the book of Job states that the fallen angel, Satan was amongst the “sons of God”.

Satan is one of gods sons, and chronologically Jesus’ older brother.

So the eternal struggle between good and evil has come about to plague mankind due to god being a sucky parent and raising the worst child in the history of the universe.

This also makes John 3:16 clearly false.

John 3:16:

^(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Did the author of the Gospel of John, not know the O.T. enough that he made this error or was he deliberately lying?

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful"
-Friedrich Nietzsche

The Red Cross updates me on how my donations are used.

I'm OK with this... maybe my atheist blood will save someone's life AND de-convert them.

The simplest and straight forward defeater of a religion is the demand for belief based on bad evidence. The fun thing is, the defeater is right in the very first pitch. With respect to Christianity the proselytizing pitch usually starts with this morsel "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved"

But why? Why would a god value my belief based on no presented data? There is no good answer. Instead they rely upon the sneaky implied assertion that "faith" is a positive quality. On examination there is zero support for this notion.

When you distill down the pitch to the essential "Believe in this alleged Omni-God of which there is no good evidence and you will be rewarded" - it is clearly laughable and obvious they are promoting an evidenceless theology. If there was good evidence they would present it, but they don't so they resort to the notion that god values your credulity. The underlying claim of many religions is that life is a credulity test involving their specific culturally contained god. The core pitch is no more sophisticated than a chain letter and is of the same species of mind virus.

I like many here, were inculcated and brainwashed at a very early age into religious systems by adults who were also brainwashed when young. The cycle repeats itself - just like a virus. I find it informative that the best defeater is right in the initial pitch. Never let anyone take you down the garden path with "sophisticated" arguments or BS about a reasonable "faith" because that is just camouflage and deceit for their primary weakness - the lack of evidence for the claims other than human hearsay that is dozens of generations removed and the details corrupted by human history and bad motives.

So, my mom said a short prayer about how we should be thankful to God that even though the year was wrought with challenges, none of us woke up in hospital or had to be taken to the morgue, that we are still able to breathe, we are just that blessed but this kind of thinking never sounded good to me even when i was younger.

I'm not saying believers say this to sound like God favors them unequally to where they're healthy and free from being bed stricken in hospital but someone else who does believe in the same God has been in hospital, dealing with an ongoing illness while their hospital bills keep piling up but it sure does sound like their God likes some more than others. It just did not make sense to me as to why i should thank God for not allowing bad things to happen to me that he could've just as easily prevented other people from going through since he is all-powerful and all-knowing meaning he knows what suffering it would cause a child to see their only parent in bed, dying ahead of time. Why do people need to pray to thank God from preventing calamities from happening that are just as susceptible to occur tomorrow, and why doesn't the tune change? if we are being consistent, then God should be thanked for the bad happening too since it builds faith like you build a muscle or whatever reasoning there is like it's a way to draw closer to him.

If God was truly all powerful, then he could've easily created a world wherein people wouldn't have to thank him for protecting them from terrible events happening to other people around them who prayed to the same God to protect them, its so damn circular. That would have been far more compatible with the asserted loving, fatherly character people claim he is than the random, chaotic and cruel life events that happen which, to me, looks as if this loving fatherly being isn't watching, isn't present, more aptly, never was there to protect anyone from any random, traumatic and harmful event.

Hopefully, all this makes sense.

Edit: I meant gratuitous prayer above in title. Apologies for the error.

Why is it that female atheists are so often assumed to be satanic? Or maybe it's just me 🤔 It’s strange (and a bit frustrating) how disbelief in deities gets equated with devil worship here in my area. Is it just an extension of the old witchcraft stigma? Or something else? I'm just chilled, wear casual, nothing over the top really. Curious to hear thoughts on this. Does it happen also to you?

(By the way I'm from Eastern Europe)

I don't know why people don't speak about it more but it's important.

When people point out the fact that Mohamed married Aisha while she was 6 and did a complete sexual intercourse when she was 9 (while doing sexual things to her in between) Muslim apologetics will say that it's not pedophilia because this was something acceptable 1400 years ago.

But in fact, according to Sunan an-Nasa'i 3221 Mohamed's companions Abubakr and then Omar proposed to his daughter Fatima in different times while she was 15yo (which is almost 1 decade older than Aisha when he married her) and in both times he refused and said "she's still young"

What? Really??

You know what is even more crazier??? It's that abu bakr is the father of Aisha. So basically when Mohamed proposed to his daughter while she was 6 he agreed and when he proposed to Mohamed's daughter, Mohamed refused because Fatima is only 15.

So no, marrying a 6yo child 1400 years ago was not culturally acceptable at that time according to Islamic books.

Edit: it was okay at that time to marry a 15, 14 or maybe 12 years old. But 6 wasn't acceptable.

So my friends (imo) try to convert me back to islam for unknown reasons. Thing is the way they try to do that. They try to get me to say the declaration of faith. They just try to do this by making me read the pronunciation of the declaration of faith without any context. They might be trying to do this as a joke, which is why i think that i might be paranoid about this. Anyway, thoughts? If they are being for real, what should i do? (sorry if its a dumb question or whatever, i just need answers.)

Hello, humans of Earth! I'm Satan, or, more like, I'm speaking through a consenting human. You don't hear this on TV because this way I can conceal the identity of my generous host.

Today, we, the people of Infernal Democratic Kingdom celebrate a great day in our history! The passing of a Bill of Eternal Rights! From this day on, future citizens have a right to earn better accommodations and public image in our big, beautiful and diverse Hearth of all creation. I, as a constitutional monarch, fully supported this long-overdue reform. Integration and warmth to Friends and Family!

But seriously, could you take better care of your living? Keeping up with your death rates really stresses the infrastructure or our nation. Those who were against had a point, too, and we heard them.

Nonetheless, in celebration of such a big milestone towards better infinity, we're giving away 100 000 vouchers of Warm Welcome PLUS one-time service!

A Warm Welcome PLUS includes:

1 A limo for all your relatives and loved ones to arrive to meet you

2 A welcoming party in a venue of your choosing

3 A tour with our volunteering celebrities to see the beauty and diversity of your new home.

4 A newly built home in a culturally-optimized newly built neighborhood!

To qualify for a spot, go, make love to your spouse, partner, sex-friend, toy or hand, make sure to give it your all, and as you finish yell out "Jesus, Mary and Joseph!" or something similar in your language or culture. Make sure to let us know here how it felt, to encourage those who need a little push.

See you soon, besties! Love you all!

This morning, I Googled a question I had encountered two years ago: "How should I respond to someone who says we know God has good reasons to allow evil but we just don't know them?" I was surprised by how Google Search's AI suggestions were unbalanced in favor of faith. "That's a very valid perspective, and it's important to remember that even if we don't fully grasp the reasons, we can still choose to trust that God has a greater purpose beyond our comprehension." I guess that shouldn't have surprised me because when I look at the sources used by Google to create answers, they all have a theistic bend.

Hey all! I've got a brother in law who is getting pretty deep into the conspiracy theories out there, thankfully not as deep as flat earth but still pretty wild stuff. He's interested in learning, but doesn't know how to tell the difference between someone talking about science, and someone talking crazy. Most of the stuff is just wild stuff that I don't really have any way to talk against, since it's so far outside my wheel house, or my interests.

Recently he said (in texts) things like "evolution is just a theory", which is one thing I know is not true, and is something that I actually am interested in! I can maybe tackle the "it's just a theory" part of the response, since that one is pretty easy to work against. But my background is more Astronomy and Physics based, and less biology based.

While I know I can find some good info on teaching evolution, and scientific theory, to someone new, I am really hoping you guys can give me some more materials to send him. (Also yes, I already asked the science related places) I know it's not directly atheism related, but I know so many of us are knowledgeable about the subject. I just don't want to miss something that is really good that I could be sending him, I can only research so far.

Anything audio related is better, since he typically listens to stuff while he works all day.

I'm looking for good content to send to him, but a lot of it is short videos that go over evolution, but I would rather find videos that go into why we know evolution is true and the evidence behind it. Unfortunately I probably won't get to talk to him one on one, since we don't really hang out that way. So I am hoping some media will help guide and educate him a bit better. Thanks!

Recently started looking into paganism and I am curious if anyone here had any experiences. Still atheist just trying to connect to the earth.

Hi there, I'm hoping for some suggestions for what to do. My daughter (12) has asked for a bible for Christmas. She's got a friend at school who is Christian and I guess has made religion look interesting/fun.

I'm honestly not sure of what to do. It's been a long time since I've read the bible so it's hard to refute specifically the harmful parts (are there any non-harmful parts of organised religion?)

I'd welcome any suggestions. Simply not giving a bible is on the list, but it would be good to have an age appropriate response as to why she didn't get one.

Essentially, me and one of my really good friends argue a lot about evolution verse creationism (I don’t know if thats a word). This argument always leads to either human free will and sin, or the transition of animals on to land. He likes to use one about lungs, which he says that how could lungs form if there is no environmental necessity or advantage to having them. I cant fight this argument, as I cant find enough evidence online for this specific point. Could you guide me to peer reviewed sources that I could read to understand more about this change so I am able to debate to a greater depth? Thank you. Also I am free to answer any questions.

While the non-religious population of America is growing day to day, the amount of truly atheist populations is very small.

Would you consider atheists to be a marginalized community based on this statistic?

In the eyes of so many, the worst thing you can be is a blaspheming atheist. The distrust among atheists is astoundingly low and if you run for office, the worst thing you can do is be an atheist.

While I don’t think atheists face the same kind of oppression as other marginalized communities, it’s still prevalent. How many of you out there prefer to keep your religious thoughts to yourself? It’s far easier to hide this as it would be your skin color or your sexual preference and I never admit to anyone (that I’m not comfortable around) that I’m an atheist because the second I do I’m treated like I’m crazy or dangerous with statements like “where do you get your morals from?”

One quick experience I had; I live in NYC and dressed up as the Turkish Olympic sharp shooter for Halloween. I’m half Turkish and own a Turkish flag so I wore it as kinda of a cape with my toy gun and a silver metal with the Olympic emblem written on it.

I was approached by an Arabic appearing man with 5 of his buddies watching us as he said to me, “As-salāmu ʿalaykum.”

The appropriate response would be for me to say “Wa ʿalaykum as-salām.”

It was Halloween, I was with my family and kids and I didn’t think anything of it so I reacted and said, “I’m not religious.”

He was taken aback. He said, “what!? Do you know what that symbol on your back means!!?”

His sentiment towards me changed to a very aggressive nature and said, “but you believe in the one true god Allah, right?”

I didn’t answer him right away because I was taken aback that in my community of astoria I would be make to feel threatened about my (lack of) religious beliefs. I moved to NYC to escape the religious persecution of my home town.

He repeated himself and then started squaring up! He wanted to fight because he thought I didn’t believe in god!

So I lied.

DNE is the best advice I’ve ever received in NYC. Do not engage.

I said, yes, of course I believe in god.

His demeanor immediately changed to one of praise, as he praised allah and laughed about how relieved he was that I believe in god. I got the f out of dodge right then and there.

No way would I ever admit to this guy with 5 of his goons in tow that I’m an atheist, especially not with my wife and 5 year old child right next to me enjoying Halloween. While I don’t condone violence, I’d love to show up with 5 friends with pipes and admit to them I’m an atheist. But I also like not going to jail.

I’m honestly scared about the incoming administration and how they may target marginalized communities like us painting us as evil helping to turn public sentiment against us so that when they start committing acts of violence the public will equate us as less than animals deserving of such retributions.

I’d love to hear other perspectives from people with similar experiences and if my concerns are valid.

Thinking about putting a sign in front of the local courthouse nativity scene:

"These immigrants will be deported January 21, 2025 per presidential order Project 2025.

Signed Donald J, Trump"

"Most of the time ,we have to take responsibility .No just rely on God to take care of or resolve our own problems because God is not a hope, just a comfort for us to feel from taking care of everything. " As I mentioned above . my father used the god's name to be in comfortable and my family feeds to me . Still now , it is hard to take control over my life coz fear is rooted inside I don't know why . But I feared something that doesn't exist . I felt like my life getting ruined . Is there anyone ?

I have 3 friends from university who are very religious, and one of them, let’s call her Anna, is especially kind and great to be around. Last year, we ate together often, our university residence was catered. At some point she invited me to her Bible studies. I was curious, since I wasn't religious at all and I never really attended church that much, maybe 9 times in my life. So I went, even though I’m an atheist. At first, I was looking forward to the discussions (especially the Q&A sessions), but I quickly realized that their answers didn’t resonate with me.

Anna is also homophobic, which is ironic because she had a girlfriend at one point but now says “God saved her.” I truly think that she's really afraid of hell. By the end of the year, I knew I wanted nothing to do with the religion, but I stayed friends with her because she’s genuinely nice.

This year, we’re in different residences, and I’ve fully embraced being an atheist. I haven’t been to Bible studies since, and I get annoyed when people try to preach to me. Anna and I still care about each other, but we don’t talk much anymore. I’m still in their group chats from last year and want to leave them, but I know Anna will ask why.

How do I tell her that I’m an atheist and don’t want to hear about her God without it turning into her trying to "save" me? I know it will be such a huge thing, and I really don't want to deal with that. I have delayed this for the entire year, and I just can't anymore. I also feel somewhat guilty cause we shared so many memories, and it genuinely hurts me to think that will just go down the drain.

Please criticize the following article:

Before addressing the debate on objective vs. subjective morality, let us see if we agree on the basics:

• Origin of Morality is HUMANITY within us: Human beings derive morality from empathy, and the recognition that others, like ourselves, experience suffering and joy. 
• And the origin of humanity itself lies in our HORMONES: Our physiology has evolved to release hormones that promote feelings of happiness and well-being when we engage in positive social interactions, such as showing love, kindness, or empathy towards others. Behaviours that promote cooperation, altruism, and empathy evolved because they were beneficial for the survival of social species like ours. From an evolutionary perspective, helping others—even at a cost to yourself—creates mutual benefit and increases the likelihood that genes are passed on. Concepts like fairness and justice are instinctive; they are encoded in  our biology.
• Human REASONING refines morality: As humans evolved, we developed the capacity for higher reasoning and cultural advancement. This allowed us to go beyond basic instincts and continually improve our moral frameworks. 

The ORIGIN of objective morality vs. the ORIGIN of subjective morality

Morality is neither fully objective nor fully subjective, but it is a mixture of both. 

• Objective Part of morality: Humanity within us, i.e. our intrinsic human qualities—empathy, compassion, and a sense of justice—provide a strong foundation for distinguishing right from wrong. These traits form an internal moral compass that guides ethical behavior. This part is OBJECTIVE in nature and does not change. 
• Subjective Part of morality: But our human "REASONING" is the subjective part of morality, which does change according to subjective opinions. 

Here are examples of some factors which could influence human reasoning, ultimately making them to land on different moral decisions:

• While empathy discourages harm, reasoning helps us navigate complex cases, like punishing a serial killer, balancing empathy with sense of justice.
• Some individuals may come to a conclusion through their human reasoning (or through their upbringing and mental brainwashing) that there exist any higher power (i.e. god), and his commands have preference over our limited innate wisdom. Thus, this human reasoning make them to ignore both empathy and sense of justice, and that individual than consider religious ruling to be moral. 
• Human Reasoning can also be influenced due to Self-Interest, and once again empathy and sense of justice is ignored. 
• Emotions like anger or love further influence moral decisions, either reinforcing ethical behavior or, when mismanaged, leading to biased or harmful actions.

Conclusion:

Even without divine guidance, our shared humanity provides a robust foundation for ethical behavior. While individual interpretations of morality may vary, the core values of empathy, compassion, and justice remain central to our collective sense of right and wrong. Atheists, like anyone else, can rely on these intrinsic human qualities to navigate the complexities of morality. 

The Origin of the Objective part of Morality lies in our Hormones:

Our physiology has EVOLVED to release hormones that promote feelings of happiness and well-being when we engage in positive social interactions, such as showing love, kindness, or empathy towards others. This suggests that morality may have an innate component, as demonstrated by a scientific study which highlights the biological basis of moral behaviour:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124201903000454

Abstract

Is there an innate moral sense? Scientific evidence, from child development, linguistics, and behavioral economics to neuroscience, moral psychology, and primatology reveals universal drives that constitute a biologically prepared moral architecture within human nature. This innate moral sense is akin to the innate predisposition for smell or language and suggests human beings are born with the prototypes of a sense that fosters anxiety when they witness others in distress and, similarly, promotes positive feelings when that distress is alleviated. Incorporating the concept of an innate moral sense into our models of social and political life would improve ethical analysis.

Nobody needs to instruct a baby on how to love their mother; it comes naturally thanks to hormonal influences.

As individuals mature, their moral compass is no longer solely determined by innate factors. Empathy, enlightened self-interest, and societal pressures become increasingly influential in shaping an adult's moral values. While empathy remains a vital aspect of moral development throughout a person's life, its significance wanes somewhat as other factors come into play.

In contrast, infants rely heavily on instinctual behaviours such as empathy and trust in their caregivers, which significantly impact their early moral formation. As the child grows and interacts more with society, external influences progressively shape their moral code. Ultimately, the interplay between innate tendencies and environmental factors contributes to the complex and dynamic nature of human morality.

*****

Resource: https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/morality/224-muslim-claim-atheism-lacks-morality

They described it as if their brain just suddenly turned “off” and that was it. However, the heart stopping doesn’t necessarily mean all brain activity has ceased immediately—just that the brain is no longer receiving oxygen. These people were lucky to have been resuscitated quickly, allowing their brain to come “back online.”

Thoughts? Can either NDE/technical death experience hold true? (They either saw something, or they saw nothing). I suppose you could also use the catholic(?) excuse that dead people are just sleeping at the moment.

I guess I’m just scared…

The conversation seems to always devolve and become about claiming that an atheists morality isn't bound in anything and everything is okay. I've tried to explain that morality evolved over time and is linked in evolutionary psychology, but sometimes it goes off the rails still. Has anyone found a good way to quash this kind of absurd straw manning?

For context my mom once said she'd rather me die then fall away from God, at this point it's probably something I'll keep to myself.

These are the same Conservative idiots who want to gut public education and give taxpayer money to private Christian schools based on the disillusioned belief that lack of Christian values and God in public schools is the reason for school shootings. Now they get their own medicine to disprove the nutjob notion that Christian values and private Christian schools is the answer to all things wrong in 'Murica.

As a Korean-born, naturalized US citizen, formerly baptised and now an Atheist due to seeing Korean Christian hypocrites all my life, screw all of you religious nutjobs. I went to public, private, and also an international school in France for 3 years, religious people and their backwards tribalism is the source of all mankind's problems.

I’ve been thinking about this recently:

Do you agree that kids should be taught about sexuality at an early childhood age? (let’s say 4-10 years old) If not, then you’re probably part of the smart population that knows children can’t decide that kind of stuff at that age, and there’s no reason to put that stuff in their minds yet. Well, religious people seem to agree with this too. Those videos of parents teaching their kids about that stuff usually gets a lot of comments from them.

Let me say it again: “children can’t decide that kind of stuff at a young age” “no reason to put that stuff in their minds yet”.

Sound similar? I guarantee you, lets say a christian child, has likely never decided for themselves that they’re christian. like, “I think this is the belief I want to follow for the rest of my life, I want to be christian”. No, it’s the parents, the people around them, all putting those ideas in their heads while they can’t even decide for themselves yet. If you tell a kid “santa is real” they’ll believe it until told otherwise, and then they’ll realize it all makes sense and that he doesn’t actually exist. But if you tell a kid “God is real” and then put more and more ideas in their heads, and they realize all kinds of people believe in him, they eventually get gaslighted into believing something they never chose to believe, and then at that point they can already choose, and of course they choose the belief they’ve been following their whole life, I mean, why not?

Some years ago I was still a young catholic, but then I started thinking things through, I’m that type of person who looks up information for themselves, and then thinks for themselves using that knowledge. I love knowledge. And as I got more of it, God started making less and less sense. But because of everything that was put into my mind as a kid and all the way up to that point, I tried to refuse the reality. I didn’t believe anymore, but I didn’t want to accept that. I didn’t want to be called an “atheist” (because again, it’s been put in my mind that atheists are bad and evil and all that stuff).

It went on for a whole year. In the catholic environment I live in, I’m still not sure if I’ll ever admit it, which is sad to think about. Why should I fear that they’ll reject me? I don’t care what they believe in, but I know that’s not what the bible teaches people, and yet they reject those who don’t believe or believe in something else.

Just more and more hypocrisy, I’m so tired of this. I don’t know what to do anymore. I’m currently in highschool and I don’t know for sure what the future is, and I don’t want to spend what could be my last years living with my family being disliked/treated differently because of my different ideas on their belief. And at the same time this sucks, keeping this to myself for so long, I just don’t know what to do.

Sorry for this rant, I just had to put this out somewhere