Ok, this is probably kind of a dumb question, so I apologize if it's inappropriate for this sub. If it is, I’ll delete it.

I’ve never liked the Virgin Mary, not even when I was a practicing, trying-to-be-devout Catholic. I hated praying the Rosary, didn’t see the point in asking her to pray for me, and never viewed her as a loving mother. Honestly, she always creeped me out, though I’m not entirely sure why. I’m writing this to try and figure it out and to see if others have had similar experiences.

Of course, this could just be a personal issue because my name is Mary (though it’s said differently in my native language). Growing up, she was constantly held up as an example for me, and my name day falls on one of her feast days. Plus, my mother is abusive, so I might just have trouble relating to the idea of a motherly figure in general.

Still, I’m really curious if anyone who isn’t named Mary or who doesn’t have issues with their mother feels the same way.

Here are some reasons I think she creeps me out:

1. Her portrayal and the Church’s image of her is kind of misogynistic.

She is exalted and presented as a role model for Catholic women, but at the same time, she holds the lowest rank among the men in her life. She’s supposed to be the most important woman who ever lived, yet she doesn’t measure up to any of the men she knew. Catholics depict her as subservient and obedient, and they consider this a good thing. Women are expected to aspire to be like her, yet she embodies something unattainable (unless you count IVF, which Catholics are against)—a virgin mother who didn’t even have sex with her husband.

2. Her apparitions and constant warnings about hell and the apocalypse.

3. The way her worship is pushed on people.

For example, the Rosary is often presented as the ultimate prayer. Even if someone hates praying it, they’re still told they should do it anyway.

So, I get a message asking me to listen to this advent podcast thing (which requires an app download as well?) and saying that this is necessary for her to feel happy. She knows I don't attend church anymore. FYI I'm in my 30s and own my own home.

It's so wildly manipulative. Who doesn't want their own mother to be happy? But then to be told I need to listen to some priest for her to be happy? That's bullshit. Be happy that I am living an idenpendent and financially successful life. I live a low drama life. I make good choices. I am mentally stable.

The situation has just ruined me mood today and I can't seem to get over it.

I don't even know how to respond to these messages.

As we are now in the Christmas season, I've been thinking about religion more lately. For my background: I'm married and have two young kids. I was raised in a VERY Catholic trad household, struggled with the faith all throughout my childhood, and stopped practicing altogether the second I moved out of my parents' house. I would now probably identify as an agnostic. My wife is Catholic as well, but is basically a cultural Catholic, so as a result we have been raising our kids in a pretty secular household.

The kids (toddler and preschooler) are getting older and are starting to ask questions that are religious-adjacent. For example, my wife likes to put out a nativity statue that she's had for a while and my oldest was asking who they were, who the baby was, what an angel is, etc.

I am not really sure how to approach it. On the one hand, I obviously don't want to default my kids into Catholicism. I don't have animosity towards the religion, but I don't want to start telling them about God, His Son,, the Virgin Mary, etc when they are at an age where they are totally unable to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions. On the other hand, I don't really want to default them into atheism either.

I'm pretty aware of the power I have over these kids because they're such sponges at this age. I think I'm comfortable raising my kids in a cultural Catholic environment but I don't really know how to approach these types of conversations. How are you all navigating it?

I have been working on pre-writing the reasons why I do not practice my Catholic faith anymore and I would love this communities' input. I hope to have these statements prepared in case a family member (all traditional Catholics) asks me why I am not taking our children to Mass during the upcoming holidays. Thus, this list is not comprehensive - just what I thought would most resonate with family. Do you have any reasons you have found helpful?

1. The church has not addressed the coverup or been held accountable for the sexual abuse of children crisis, a crisis that is ongoing. Given that the crisis has not been adequately addressed and continues to be mishandled, I do not feel comfortable bringing my children to church.
2. It is a joy to bring your beautiful family to church because you are celebrated and supported. Families are beautiful, and generally, old and young parishioners love to see them. However, I refuse to use Mass to boost my own image while compromising my children’s safety and comfort.
3. I have studied Catholic thought and belief for years and find it beautiful in some respects, but the beauty of thought and belief cannot change how the church has wronged children.
4. Later in life, once I have finished raising my children, perhaps I will re-engage with the Church with the sole purpose of holding members accountable for their role in abusing the most vulnerable members of society. Now is not the time, as I am focused on raising my children and creating a healthy family. I see the institution of the Catholic church as antithetical to that effort.

I recently realized that, while I am way past any attachment to Catholicism, some part of me still believes in something... else?

I always prayed in moments of where I felt helpless or lost or confused or overwhelmed. Occasionally I'd send up a "thanks so much for the good stuff, big guy" but mostly it was in times of chaos and tragedy. A bedside vigil at the hospital when my mom was in a life-threatening car accident or when dad was at death's door due to a septic infection. In the waiting room when my newborn was having a surgical procedure done on his heart. The moments where the only thing I can do is wait, but waiting doesn't feel like enough.

Or when I lost a job and had no prospects, no money, and no food. When the burdens of the world felt too big and I didn't have someone to lean on.

Sometimes it was a prayer of intercession (please step in and help out) but a lot of times it was just me asking for guidance or patience. I don't know if/how to give those prayers up, so I'm hoping to find a way to replace them when the time comes.

I'm so thankful that I haven't had any of those moments recently, but I also know that could change any time.

So, if every version of Christianity (and really any Abrahamic religion) is out, what's still out there that would be worth looking into?

As an adult, I came to appreciate and miss the reverential nature of Catholic practices. Things like the sacraments and the routine of mass, neither of which are uniquely Catholic. I can't consider anything where the tone is punitive because it doesn't make sense to me. I know there are faith traditions out there, I just don't know what they are or where to start respectfully.

So, with the recent election, I've been pondering a lot about if I want kids or not.

Growing up there was a lot of societal pressure to have kids. While guys didn't have it as bad, I still felt that pressure to procreate.

While some things in life can be difficult, it seems like Catholicism puts it on extra difficult mode. While having kids and a family sometimes seems appealing, I think the church made it unappealing as possible. Instead of just living a simple life raising your kids, you have to put them through all of these tests and trials to have them be accepted in the Catholic Church, and that just doesn't seem right.

Overall, I feel pretty well adjusted, but don't think I could ever raise kids, and I think being raised pretty strict Catholic might have add an affect on that.

Not to mention that the whole process on asking priests who've never had kids their advice on having sex is pretty absurd, even I chuckled at that when I was Catholic.

I (secular pagan) am from an entirely Catholic family going all the way back to my great grandparents. My family is unaware of my religious beliefs and probably will be until I die since they would not be accepting of my change even if I told them I was agnostic which I have considered. This is a problem since a lot of my cousins along with my family's friend's kid's confirmations are coming up in the next two-ish years. Since I am pretty close with them (I babysat my family's friend's kids and am pretty close to all my cousins despite there being an age gap of 5-7 years) I fear I may be asked to sponsor one or more of them in their conformation. I don't want to do this since it feels wrong to agree to be a sponsor when I am not of the faith and therefore cannot properly lead them in their faith journey. The problem is that I can't really think of a reason for why I wouldn't be able to do it without telling them that I'm not actually Catholic. Does anyone have any advice of how I could politely turn them down if they ask me?

I have been divorced for a couple years. We had a couple kids who are now young teens (10 and 11). I do not have primary custody and no longer really practice Catholicism, but my ex has only gotten more and more radical in his faith.

I don't want my kids raised this way. Every time I see them they are worried about some new devotion or practice. They constantly talk about radtrad ideas/theology (even telling my non Catholic dad that animals don't go to heaven and if you need animals to be in happy in heaven why don't you love Jesus that much, etc,) it's all regurgitated from my ex. They also have lots of negatives to say about the LGBTQ community and sometimes women.

I feel terrible for my part, for buying into Catholicism enough to have children and raise them in the faith to begin with, but I'm terrified that they will be radicalized. I doubt there is anything I can do legally (besides appeal for more custody), so I'm really just venting and hoping my kids don't turn out terribly fucked up.

My childhood was brutal. From the gender expectations, to the minute to minute horrors that I experienced, I never had a break from being a "Catholic". Thats what my family called it.

It wasn't, but I wouldn't learn the name Sedevacantist for 20 years.

Up until I was about 8, us good "Catholics" did what good "Catholics" do. We protested abortion clinics and prayed rosaires over curing people of their gayness, their jewishness, their damnation qualifier of the week. We were the most special and most holy, sanctified in our firey hated of the "other".

We cheered as them A-rabs got what was coming to them... despite being proud Arab "Catholics".

"Arab" "Catholic". I guess.

We sobbed over women gaining rights, breaking our precious "traditions" - the core power of the patriarchal power structure... despite being proud Women.

"Arab" "Catholic" "Women". I guess.

I was about 8 the first time a man older than my father made sexual advances on me for the crime of growing breasts in a world that barely waits until puberty to sexualize you into submission.

And at the sunset of my childhood I was struck with an all consuming thought.

"This can't be all there is."

And I was right.

I got out. I found truths about myself that didn't need a cowriter.

I am an Arab American Human. I am a Sister, a Godparent, a Friend, and a good fucking person when I manage it.

And I am certainly not a "Catholic".

I(15MTF), am forced to go a Catholic church by my father and am currently in confirmation without any say in the matter. They have an upcoming festival we'll call Hoi Cho and they want us children to literally work 10 hours unpaid because it's required to be able to confirm. The worst part is that they disguise it as volunteer work even though it's literally forced upon us. I don't want to literally work a restaurant job unpaid to be confirmed in a religion I don't want to. I'm fine with actual volunteer work, like if we had a choice and weren't shamed for not participating but I really think this is just plain wrong to have literal kids work for free under the lie that we're volunteering. I've talked to my teacher and dad about it and they want me to go and work without me agreeing to it. I just really wanted to get this off my chest because it infuriates me that me and a bunch of other kids are taken advantage of. I cannot wait to leave this religion once I'm 18.

For context, it's for a vietnamese church school you go to every Saturday and they have a thing called hội chợ which is basically a fair. This really annoys me that they couldn't hire enough staff and find a way to make children between the ages of 14-16 do unpaid work for them.

Edit: Well I have to start today and tomorrow, wish me luck. I didn't even sign up for today's shift, my dad is just bringing me there

Hey everyone,

I have a family member who is a FOCUS Missionary. He is home for Thanksgiving, and has been talking about his "Godly experiences" through his training and work as a missionary... One of which includes his dating/female fasting which I find pretty cultish.

He says he isn't allowed to shake hands, talk or even look at girls at the college campus he's on. They aren't allowed to do any Bible study or be together in the same room as other girls at any time... and the teachings men have are very different from what is taught to women.

Does anyone know why this is? I'm getting a sick feeling that this is some kind of cult behavior.

Plus, he isn't allowed (or at least gave up) personal hygiene. He smells God awful, his hair and beard are grown out uncomfortably long, and he doesn't really brush his teeth - and coming from a kid that used to be more clean cut, this is also pretty worrisome.

(For context I grew up in a hardcore religious family - many of my family members walked away from the Church, thankfully. But this family is a HARDCORE catholic)

If you had experience with FOCUS or were a FOCUS missionary please let me know your thoughts on how you were "trained" and the rules you were expected to follow in terms of male/female separation and self-hygiene... I'm becoming very concerned.

TRIGGER WARNING! The photos in this post may be triggering for some people who do not want to see familiar traditions/rituals within Catholicism!

(This explaination is vital to answering my question but I am going to make it as short as possible. Sorry!) My husband and I are both 31 years old and have been married for almost 10 years so we both know each other's thoughts and opinions on Christianity and Catholicism. But this topic came up because of a conversation we were having with one of his brother's and his wife. Long story short, religion came up and (IMO) I held a very confident and stern position throughout the entire discussion. Whereas, my husband said that I was being aggressive and insensitive. I don't agree with him and told him that, in fact, sometimes he sounds more agnostic than athiest. Which, obviously, he also disagreed with. So that led us into discussing our pasts with Catholicism, along with our upbringing. And this is where I think the answer to my question lies... All of my husband's side of the family are still Christians. Some are still Catholics, but most of them aren't and attend church services at non-Denominational churches instead. But, ALL of his family were and still are what we call "cafeteria Catholics/Christians" or "CEO Catholics/Christians". Now for MY family, not only were we Catholic but we were DEVOUT Catholics. I went to a Catholic school for 14 yrs which meant attending Mass twice a week! I received all the sacrements and was actively involved in Mass and the church(singing in the choir & a youth group leader). I no longer speak to my family members who are still Catholic. Which means my family now consists of only my mother, step-father, and brother.

So, when my husband is speaking on religion, this is basically what he says: "I'm an atheist or a non-believer, BUT I have no problem with religions and people of faith as long as you don't push your faith on me."

Versus MY usual response: "I'm an atheist or a non-believer. I see most organized religions as evil and immoral, especially Catholicism. I only dislike people of faith who hold ALL of the same values as their religion instead of disparaging the beliefs that we as a society today now know are cruel and discriminatory."

So sorry again for the long post but I would really appreciate some other opinions. Am I aggressive? Am I being mean to my own family and I'm just blind to it? (BTW, I've added the photos just to better set the tone for my point and reasoning because my husband never experienced any of this growing up.) IMO deconstructing and life after can be much more challenging and intense for the people who were more immersed in their faith and religion.

First Communion

Confirmation

Married OUTSIDE of Catholicism

My husband and I are FINALLY at the point where we're planning to get pregnant, and I'm so excited!! However, one of our main concerns are how to handle religion when it comes to our families. My side of the family is very, very Catholic, and my in-laws have started going to a non denominational church. Like, my brother and his wife are the type that believe you get married and have sex solely to have children. More soldiers for the army of God, am I right...?

We're concerned that they're going to try and force us to baptize our (currently hypothetical) child. We...don't really know how to tell them we're not raising a Catholic kid. I have a history of sexual abuse through the church that they don't know about, and being queer has made me resent religion even more. I don't want to put my little one through that. I think my child should be able to choose their beliefs and find their spirituality on their own terms, just as I did. I don't like forcing religion onto someone.

Any advice on how to handle the topic would be greatly appreciated. If not, enjoy my little rant.

I've been a member of this group for a long time and frankly I find it to be a comforting community since we have experiences that we can relate to. So now I'll ask for a little advice since I respect y'all so much.

Last Thursday I received a letter in the mail from the local church I used to be a member of it's from the parochial vicar. We used to be close when I was still a member of the church however like many priests he's gone off the deep end since 2016 and I haven't spoken to him in over three years.

I have a feeling this letter is not out of the blue however. A few days before I receive the letter I ran into a former fellow parishioner at the supermarket. They asked me why they haven't seen me around the parish in forever. I was tempted to not really give an honest answer because I didn't feel like having an argument in the grocery store.

However I made my negative opinion of the church known in a fairly forceful way and we parted ways.

She didn't argue with me but seemed extremely shocked at how much I have grown to despise the church. My guess is she ratted me out to the vicar and his letter is I'm guessing an attempt to scold me, guilt trip me or perhaps "love bomb me" into coming back.

I'm torn. Should I even bother opening the letter? A part of me thinks I should ignore him and not give him the satisfaction.

Thoughts?

I just discovered there are two types of Catholic priests.

Religious Order priests join an order and take vows of obedience, chastity, and poverty.

Diocesan join the Bishop(?) Or dioceses and only take vows of chastity and obedience, but not of poverty.

Does anyone have more info on how this works? On diocesan priests?

I've been watching an adult catechism series on YouTube put up by OLM St. Jude. I wanted some more in depth info on the old faith. They never gave me much in Catholic School.

My favorite moment was the priest's discussion on angels. He looked at the class and declared angels were the reason for the planet's movements.

It's a wild lecture series, let me tell you.

Hi all,

Some quick background, I’m a 35 f who was raised in a very catholic conservative household. 2 uncle’s that are priests, 2 aunt’s that are nuns and one of my brothers is currently in seminary. I have never felt connected to the church and went through the motions as a kid but have not been practicing in many years. I would still put on an act when I was home with my family and go to church, etc. but I would tune it all out. In the past year or so I’ve been more open with my parents about my issues with the church and distancing myself. Needless to say this caused major issues and resulted in my dad writing me a very long letter and us having multiple screaming fights over it in the last year. Things have been strained and I’ve asked both him and my mom multiple times to please stop bringing this up to me. I don’t want to talk about it and it’s not their business. Last night, my dad texted me the below text:

“Well, it was a year ago this weekend that I started writing you the letter. I had intended to hand it to you at Thanksgiving but it took longer than I expected so I gave it to you at Christmas. You still haven’t responded to it. I don’t think you have done anything that Mom asked for either. You need to know that I’m not going away. “

It’s really hard for me because aside from the Catholic stuff both my parents are awesome people and I have a close relationship with them (or at least I did with my dad but it’s been pretty strained). They both gotten more extreme and their views, especially since my brother has joined the seminary. I’m feeling pretty anxious since I’m seeing them in a few days for Thanksgiving and bringing a new boyfriend with me and I don’t want things to be tented uncomfortable during their first meeting. However, I couldn’t sleep and I ended up writing the below back. I’m not really sure what I’m looking for here. Maybe just advice or other stories for people who’ve been through this. Any guidance is appreciated.

“Dad, I’ve said to you and mom multiple times I don’t want to have this conversation at this point. It’s one I did not ask to have and now is being held over me. You’ve barely spoken to me in a year aside from a few screaming fights. It’s really hard that you’re ok with letting this derail our relationship but I’m tired of asking you to stop bringing this up. I am 35 years old and none of this is anyone’s business but mine and Gods. “

Is today. I’m not attending and I’m just sad. My super catholic sister chose today to do a graveside service. Today is my moms birthday. Rather than listen to a priest perform a ritual I find no comfort in, I am going to spend the day doing things my mom enjoyed. I’m so angry at my sister for choosing today to inter my mom. I dont have family to grieve with, so I’m posting this to let internet strangers know that I’m pretty fucked up today.

You know what I've never understood how little greed is mentioned on the pulpit. They say be generous, right, but I rarely hear about abuse or excess of ownership. Jesus literally said ownership of stuff can be a true spiritual roadblock to being a Saint. And yet how often do you hear that living a maximalist life is sinful? Never. Sexual sins they'll go one and on about, but capitalist greed, almostnever. It's as if it isn't consider a sin at all. I would consider our modern lifestyles, especially with lots of kids to be pretty spoiled and overconsumeristic. If Jesus was truly real, why the hell would he approve of all the excess? They are busy complaining about homosexuality and ignoring things like this that actually affect people's well being, attitudes, lifestyle.

I can think of a few pieces of media I really enjoy that I can’t imagine are nearly as good to someone who doesn’t have experience with Catholicism, and even though I hated my upbringing, I can appreciate at least it makes these things more interesting! Here’s my offhand list, what can you add?

Vampires and their lore Neon Genesis Evangelion My Chemical Romance Supernatural (the tv show) The Omen movies Anything involving marvel’s Daredevil

I saw that the current two big saints related to youth - Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati and Bl. Carlo Acutis - are both officially going to be canonized in 2025. My first thought was that the powers-that-be are seeing the mass exodus of young Catholics from the Church and are grasping at straws to try to keep them in the pews 🙄 (As if young saints will do that?) Like Bl. Pier Giorgio has been a Blessed for d e c a d e s and now he’s suddenly being promoted to sainthood? And it’s the opposite for Bl. Carlo - he’s been a Blessed for only 4 years and he’s already being elevated to Saint? It all just seems very convenient to me. 🙄 Thoughts?

My nephew knows I no longer believe, so he asked me for my thoughts:

“Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed. "

How can you reconcile this part of the liturgy? I had no answer for him.

I’m still young and living with my parents. My family is devout catholic. We go to traditional Latin masses and whatnot. A couple months ago I told my parents I don’t really believe in the faith, so I’m not really catholic.

At first they said/implied they might let me not go to church. Never once had that happened, I still have to go every Sunday, and on important days (unless I want to start a war in my house lmao). I’ve decided to just stop taking communion, bc it would be kind of disrespectful to, and I want to set some kind of boundary. Now they’re trying to get me to go to confession so I can take communion. I don’t really want to talk to a priest.

It just feels like instead of letting me compromise, they keep trying to push me further back into something that just doesn’t click with me. It’s not like my life is meaningless, this just doesn’t add much to my life and I want to be honest.

With everything that I do differently they just seem to crack down and try and push further instead of leaving me alone. When I came out to them, they kept prying and now just pretend I’m straight. When I told them some political activism I’m getting into, they didn’t really support it. Which is fine, I guess. We don’t need to agree on everything. But I feel like I have a million reasons to doubt myself and now when I’m trying to be more confident and have more integrity they just push me down.

I used to be a catholic, but this year I changed to being a non denominational Christian. Catholics believe that if you do switch like that you go to hell. I have a feeling it's just them trying to keep people in their religion, but still it scares me because what if that's actually true? What should I even do? Just not worry about it?

I saw some news that a local St. Jude organization had to cancel their event around a visiting relic. Apparently the Relic of Saint Jude was making a US tour until the priest escorting it was injured and they had to cancel/postpone a bunch of stops.

It was the first time in a long while I'd thought about how weirdly venerated scraps of bone and body tissue are. I remember learning it and having to immediately put on a facade of being awestruck even though I was internally pretty grossed out. Also, it feels kind of unhinged to know that they encourage churches to embed relics into the alter.

Finally, seems pretty messed up that the church has some strict rules about keeping bodily remains together (no scattering/dividing ashes) meanwhile they're just boxing up pinky bones and arm fragments to show off and telling people it's a chance to encounter something extra holy.

Edit: Per a comment below, the tour may have been canceled or postponed due to the guide being accused of "inappropriate conduct involving children." Have not verified, but want to include the info because if correct, we all know the truth should be right up here with the rest of the story.

Other edits - just spelling errors

As a Catholic, I always felt lonely because I didn't feel like many people (especially on the internet) held the same views as me. None of my friends were Catholic, most of them believed in stuff the church condemned, etc, but I did have my family to lean on to assure me that I wasn't alone.

Fast forward to me deconstructing last year. My views are now in line with my friends, but I still can't help but feel lonely. I have nothing in common with my family anymore. While my fiance's family is cafeteria Catholic and therefore don't take their faith very seriously (read: regularly skipping Mass and feasting on Ash Wednesday) they're incredibly judgemental people who judge us on literally everything else. It feels like I don't have any family and it's literally just me and my fiance at this point.

I moved across the country from somewhere where your political affiliation is your personality and 80% of what you say will have to do with politics and or religion, to somewhere where politics are rarely ever mentioned, though many people are conservative/religious. Of course there are plenty of non-religious liberals in the area, I just happen to work with people who are all religious and most likely conservative. I love my coworkers dearly and consider them the closest things I have to family irl, but there's still that disconnect. I only have one or two irl friends who I don't see super often, and the rest of my friends are online. Even the friends I have online I feel disconnected from save for my two best friends.

I often spend a lot of time feeling lonely and wondering why that is when I have several people in my life who I genuinely care about and they care about me, and I think it really does have to do with the trauma I faced growing up in Catholicism. It feels like nobody else can relate to the lifechanging experience I went through. The utter disgust and horror of realizing you grew up in a cult. The feelings of shame and like there's someone constantly watching over your shoulder. My trauma has SIGNIFICANTLY improved since moving and I'm a far happier person, but I still can't shake this feeling of loneliness. Can anyone else relate? Does it ever go away? Am I just in a sucky position because I literally have 0 family I can rely on anymore?

This was on the news just tonight. My (Wisconsin) mom is thrilled. I was tempted to ask if they’d be incorporating the Torah and Quran, too…but I figured keep the peace for the 5 minutes I was at their house. The schools will also get $40 PER STUDENT for teaching the Bible. She didn’t like the opposite side’s reasoning of “this would impede on the children’s rights to religious freedom.” Funny how that’s the main freedom they hate.

I attended a liberal program there, got a good education, but lost a lot of friends when I came out of the closet. I’m curious what others’ experiences were! Peculiar college experience for sure.

A liberal Catholic friend of mine told me he started going to an “LGBTQ+ affirming Catholic church”, and it just got me thinking. It’s just cognitive dissonance. Unlike many other Christian denominations, the Catholic Church has a singular authority and a set of established doctrines. You really can’t pick and choose what you agree with. (Well, you can of course think and support whatever you want, but it will be a sin in the eyes of the Church.)

The church has very clear stances on issues like abortion, LGBTQ+, and gender equality. I used to do a lot of mental gymnastics myself trying to reconcile my own opinions with the church’s teachings, and I just realized it’s not possible. Per the church, if you do not abide by its doctrines, you are in a state of sin. You cannot truly be both. I’ve heard many Catholics say the same thing, and I think that’s one thing they’re right about.