2024 was truly a year that dramatically changed my life.

I am a 36M who left the church approximately 8 years ago. I am in the process of finalizing my divorce to my wife who I had married in the temple 12 years ago and have 4 children with. I am in law enforcement and have experienced numerous traumatic events during my 10+ year career (go easy on me, I know how reddit feels about cops). I discovered my spouse, who was largely dismissive of my mental health, was having an affair with her co-worker.

Last year, I found myself extremely depressed, more so than I previously have as I have been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and PTSD. When expressing these feelings to my wife, she would be come frustrated that I struggled to articulate them. I would tell her how I was feeling and it would turn into an argument which lead me to not sharing my feelings with her. I would experience anxiety about things that were not logical or seemed trivial which would frustrate her. Her advice went from "you need to find help" when expressing worries, to "just do it, i'm tried of dealing with you" when I confided suicidal ideation.

I also confided in her, the person I'm supposed to be able to "cleave" unto, that I was sexually assaulted by my primary teacher at a pool party at his home when I was 7. I was told I was making it up for attention and as an excuse for my depression and anxiety.

Fortunately, I was able to receive help and am now seeing a therapist who after giving her my life story has narrowed down many of my struggles to this event. My mother, who is still very much involved in the church, has been nothing but an angel my entire life. I didn't want to tell her about this as I knew she would blame her self. I felt she deserved to know. When I told her, she was understandably in denial at first. Not out of disbelief of my account, but that she couldn't keep her child safe.

She did notice it was about that time that I no longer wanted to come to church, became much less social, and lost my sense of self confidence. My mother felt guilty for not understanding why I didn't want anything to do with church activities and pressuring me through the typical shame culture the church promotes.

Long story short, my therapist has asked me to write a first impact statement about this event and how it changed me and shaped my life. She also wants me to write about the things I value in my life. Although I don't need to be apart of the LDS church, I do still have many similar values. This isn't really a question as much as something to help me make sense of the past 30 years of my life with the LDS church as well as this past year experiencing horrific deaths, infidelity of a spouse, and the worst...my children no longer living with me permanently.

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The Constitution is literally hanging by a thread. We were taught at BYU-I that it was inspired by God.
Democracy is probably dead, but the church has money and money is the only thing the oligarchs care about.
Christian Nationalists might play nice with Mormons as a means to an end, but they will be targeted eventually.
If the TSCC has been supporting the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025, then is that why Nelson has been Christianizing the church’s image?

I think we all know the answer to this, but does church headquarters and the offices of the apostles have professional cleaners? Any current or recently former members in the know??

I was just “assigned” next week to clean the building with other families. I’d love to respond with this bit of confirmation to hammer in my point a bit better.

My sister is getting married soon and I will be attending the temple ceremony. I don’t believe anymore and don’t consider myself a Mormon, but my temple recommend doesn’t technically expire until later this year and I’d rather avoid drama with my family if possible.

My parents suspect and have confronted me about my lack of compliance rather forcefully in the past year. I engaged in the conversation but didn’t confirm or deny anything about my views on the church because they don’t deserve my disclosure and I’m not ready to talk about it with them. I know they would not react well and I don’t want to endure any further “discussion”.

The rub is picking a bridesmaids dress. My sister is not super into the church and is mainly getting married in the temple out of family pressure, which sucks and could be its own post, but the point is, she has said she doesn’t care what the dress looks like beyond the color and it being floor length.

I’ve been searching endlessly for a dress and it’s been so triggering. If I go with the Mormon rules I grew up with, I have next to no options. There are so many pretty things I want to wear and I feel like I can’t. My conflicting priorities/thoughts are:

1. It’s my sister’s day, so the focus needs to be on her
2. I don’t want to spend money on another goddamn Mormon coded dress
3. I’d rather not be the subject of gossip from my relatives…but then again it’s not like this is in my control
4. I could wear a cute formal jacket in the temple and take it off for pictures? Like I’m fucking 15 but whatever
5. I just want to wear something pretty
6. I’m sure my parents will make some remark if I go with a non temple friendly option, but I’ll handle it

So I think it’s a matter of how far I “push it” so to speak. It is my sister’s wedding and not my party, I’m not interested in anything super “revealing”, but to TBMs everything is revealing. Thank you for reading and any support would be appreciated.

They showed up after dark around 7:30. I told them I grew up in my own high control group (Jehovah’s Witnesses). They asked me what changed and I told them how I woke up by watching a program about Scientology and it dawned on me that I grew up in a cult. I discussed the BITE model with them and I asked why the BoM translation was written in an Old English style in the 1800’s. That it’s written in the style of the KJ version of the Bible. I was careful never to say they were in a cult, but I did say I considered them cousins of JWs because of the high control nature of both groups. They never heard of Mormon Stories podcast, which I listen to regularly. Overall I was very nice and polite to them, but I know they will be thinking about our visit.

Like my father calls anyone who doesn't follow the churches teachings a gentile, which is ironic given that he supports pornagrphy but bashes on onlyfans models and sex outside of marriage, he also supported Warren Jeffs because it was his "religion" Anyway sorry for the ramble just find it funny that mormons contradict themselves all the damn time

For context I am on the autism spectrum and very high-functioning. Currently [21F]. A lot of my disability is invisible to others and has been throughout my life. I am intellectually smart, but socially awkward and emotionally unstable sometimes. I feel like lot of my mental health struggles and shortcomings in general have been unfairly blamed on myself as a person (“not trying hard enough,” “need to do things more often to be good at them,” “be more willing to follow the savior”, etc. 🙄)

Anyway, my Primary years weren’t too bad. Church was more-so in the background of my life and not as invasive, but that changed when I made it to Young Women’s and it stayed like that the rest of the time in. Church stuff practically became my whole life and eternal outlook! 😭 I had no idea that other members just… understood somehow without anyone mentioning it, not to take every little detail so literally. So when the youth activities got more frequent and I was taking seminary at school every day, church teachings were guiding my life. And when I look back, a lot of it was actually against my will, and I only cared about it, because I thought that following the gospel was the only way to show God that I truly loved him. 😥

My YW class and Sunday school were really encouraging us to read the Strength of Youth pamphlet and abide by its council; and it’s something that I read over and over again and treasured it. But the problem that I didn’t realize about it until now, was that it instilled very unhealthy thinking patterns in me at a young age. And I think it was just tripled because of my autism! 😭 I believed that if a wanted to be a righteous daughter of God, I had to follow the Prophet and not question what he said. I BELIEVED it was just suddenly a SIN to say “the Mormon church,” just because President Nelson changed the council 😠 And what I truly think affected me the very most: is the emphasis on pure intentions

Deep down- I WANTED TO SIN! I was so fucking sick and tired of the church trying to micro-manage my entire life!!! And call me “selfish” for putting some of my wants before the church and other people. Like, the years shutting off every fucking YouTube video over ONE SWEAR WORD because the Strength of Youth said so and my parents would flip their shit over hearing it! (Meanwhile, they’re obviously watching PG-13 movies all the time, and listening to songs about sex on the radio 😡)

And it got so bad that when I hit puberty and started “fantasizing about things,” I became suicidal over it and constantly wished I was an “innocent little kid” again with no s**ual feelings, because I felt gross and wanted to be completely loved by God for where I was at. All the while, every talk was saying to “have the right attitude about it.” That I wouldn’t even WANT to sin or secretly wish that I could, if I truly love Jesus more than myself. “If I was grateful, then I would…” “If I wanted to be a good example, then I should…” “If I really loved Jesus, I wouldn’t fret over what he ‘knew was best for me’ and would follow with joy.”

My life was actually torture sometimes, because I didn’t even have a safe space in my own mind! 😭 I thought that if I thought the wrong things and believed the wrong things. If I had opinions that were contradictory to church teachings… that I was disappointing God and needed to try harder 😣 I suppressed so many of thoughts and feelings, and I can see now how much that damaged my psyche. I still haven’t fully unwound the shame cycles, people-pleasing tendencies, rejection sensitivity, and self-loathing. Why is it so hard to heal, even after I have all this proof that it’s lies and that logically and even spiritually, it doesn’t make any sense?!! Am I still stuck in uncertainty because my parents are still believing members who think I’m wrong about it?

The dissonance caused by this, actually, is so painful because I always looked up to my parents and still do. And they tell me and I believe that they have my best interests in mind. So how can they still actively support an organization that has misguided and damaged so many people, with leaders who still feel NO remorse for it and blame everyone but themselves?!!

The victim-blaming is actually SO INSANE! 😭 If I’m having a mental breakdown over something religious or existential, and it’s directed emotion towards the church; my parents will literally hunt down anything and everything to blame that is NOT them or the prophets or the church! Because every time I desperately try to explain what happened and why, the reasons I left the church and am struggling with it now; they say I’m wrong and that this actually what Satan wanted all along. And “this is what we warned you about, if you stopped going to church!” 😭 And my Mom especially will get absolutely merciless about it! I’ll defend myself leaving the church with stories of everything I once did, BEFORE ultimately making the choice to leave for good; and every time she counters with something I HADN’T done that I was supposed to! And then blames me not keeping up that one thing (like how I dropped out of seminary during Covid, because I hated online classes, for example) for why I FELL AWAY!!! 😭

Like it just leaves me wondering: WHAT WAS I SUPPOSED TO DO??!!! Because to everyone else, it was always that I was doing too little or too much! No acceptable in between…

If I wasn’t keeping the commandments and struggling: MY FAULT!

If I WAS keeping the commandments and STILL struggling (for reasons that are very obvious to me now-): MY FAULT! 😭

But ultimately though, what gets me through the day now and gives me peace: is the idea that if the loving Jesus Christ I know to be the true one were to be real (I’m currently agnostic)… he WOULDN’T BE this one! The Jesus I know wouldn’t want me and others like me to stunt our growth and learning. He would go out into the world, not hide from it! And he certainly wouldn’t judge people’s loving relationships and loving families, over something as shallow as gender! (The anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric still makes me so mad!!! 😡) he would see right past that into what’s in their true hearts! 🩷 AND FOR FUCK’S SAKE OF ALL THINGS!!! 😂 HE WOULD NOT GATEKEEP ALL HIS GREATEST BLESSINGS TO ONLY GIVE EXCLUSIVELY TO PEOPLE MEETING VERY RIGID STANDARDS AND GOING THROUGH CULT-LIKE RITUALS IN A TEMPLE

The god that I see would open his kingdom to all who ever lived 🩷☺️ and together, everyone could learn about what went wrong in their lives if they did evil. And instead of being ranked lower than others and separated into kingdoms, we could all be equal and happy. Which maybe it’s just me, but doesn’t that sound like a much better heaven? One where we could learn each other, nobody above one another? Because all human beings were born from the same place with the same innocence? Fuck! I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHY LUCIFER WAS BANISHED! What if HE repents some day? Is everyone really just going to applaud Heavenly Father when he condemned 1/3 of all his children to outer darkness with no chance of ever ascending? That just sounds sad and totally un-Christlike 😔 Maybe I’m just naive, but at least I’m still alive. I still have hope this is what heaven will be like, if it exists. And I hold onto this dream whenever I’m scared by life and the thought that the Mormon church is actually true and that I’m doing so much wrong now.

Several months ago I had seen a post on here regarding the pins for Mormon meeting houses being labeled rather than their correct designation as a "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" Meeting House as a "Christian Church". There was even a post mentioning how a employee of the church involved with search engine optimization had been involved in specifically changing all Google Maps pins icons from the angel Moroni icon to the Christian cross icon through this change in designation in the location type on Google Maps. At that time I managed to get the vast majority of the Mormon churches in the Phoenix Metro area to have their correct Angel Moroni pin simply by changing the location type from Christian Church to Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints. Recently while playing Pokemon go however I noticed a Mormon seminary building that was not correctly labeled on Google Maps. In attempting to add it to Maps as an actual location, I noticed that all Mormon meeting houses in the area had been reverted to the Christian cross icon and Christian Church designation. Has anyone noticed this in their area at all? I just spent the last half hour hitting as many locations as I could with an update to correct them and several of them have already taken effect. My own feelings aside, having spoke with many different leaders of various Christian denominations on my way out of the church and while trying to be supportive of my previous Partners Christian beliefs, it seems to me that Mormonism is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judaism. While sharing many of the same root beliefs and root texts, there are enough changes, modifications, additions and other such differences that it is undeniably a new non-Christian while Christian originating belief system. I believe that leaving the Mormon Meeting House locations on Google Maps as Christian meeting houses to be demonstrably and potentially provably false. I do not believe it is fair or right for any person searching for a Christian Church to potentially wind up at a Mormon meeting house on Sunday for service on sunday. I believe it's unfair to individuals looking for a Christian Church. I may not believe in any God anymore, but I think this is the Mormons intentionally misleading others into their belief system. Has anyone else noticed this in their areas?

Hello, I’m wondering about a few things regarding Mormon missionaries and trafficking laws:

When on a mission: Do they take your passport and hold it while you were outside of the country? Would you be able to get it during that time if you wanted to leave?

Were there punishments (including to reputation) for leaving the mission?

Were missionaries ever taken against their will by force or fraud?

Did you feel forced to stay in fear of any penalty from the church?

Does anyone else throw up in their mouth a little when they are scrolling through YouTube and see a Ward Radio thumbnail? They always have one or more of those imbeciles laughing and mocking someone on the thumbnail. Do you think active members are embarrassed to have these guys representing their faith?

So to start off, i might learn all of the secret handshakes and start doing them to people who are in.

Title, i was in a school that is largely mormon that i didn’t leave until i had to in the transition from elementary/ middle school to high school. These are all people i care about. i want them to know what im going through but i also want them to know that this isn’t my whole personality. i have a hunch that i will either be shamed publicly or quietly pushed away from the group. i am really tired of lying to them. i feel an obligation to encourage them to do the research and stuff but idk.

as an update to my last posts about seminary, my teacher does google forms where you can respond with questions you have and stuff… the next time he does this i think i might do a multi paragraph essay covering a lot of topics simplified for the high school gorilla brains. I have been doing better though… i haven’t cried while shaking myself to sleep knowing that i would have to attend church the next day in like 6 weeks!!1!1!1!!1 ok im done yapping. please let me know what yall think i should do.

EDIT: I would love to get a tattoo once i leave, is there anything that represents that?

https://slate.com/life/2005/05/why-strict-churches-are-strong.html

TL;DR: The article argues that strict churches thrive because their high demands create strong, committed communities. By requiring sacrifices like time, money, or lifestyle changes, these churches filter out casual members and strengthen bonds among the devoted, making the group more cohesive and resilient.

Credit to Tim Ferriss. This was featured in his Friday newsletter. The article is decades old and the research even older. But the message seems relevant as ever.

My favorite line:

“At some point, of course, the disadvantages of zealotry outweigh the benefits. A church reaches that point when it fails to offer acceptable substitutes for everything it has asked its members to give up. Cults that lure their followers into the wilderness but provide them with no livelihood soon* fade into history”

*My note: once their billions dry up, that is.

Edit: improved tl:dr

I just watched a video where Bednar explains that once we enter into the covenant of baptism, we no longer have free agency. He says our agency is enlarged to act as representatives of Christ. We don’t have a choice not to pay tithing he says as an example. Once we make the covenant, we no longer have free choice. Then he goes on to say that if you want to not sleep at night, go study what happens to covenant breakers. What. An. Ass. What better way for people to resent you than say they don’t have a choice in the matter.

From the Saturday NYT crossword puzzle. Rusty is spinning in his grave.

Hi Reddit! I am honestly an outsider to Mormonism, just someone who loves learning about religions and stumbled into Alyssa Grenfell lol.

The more I keep learning the more I can’t help but wonder how on earth these temple ceremonies were coordinated?? Seeing flowcharts of the complex handshakes, “routines”, chants, and all of these things needing to happen in sync…. I’m just baffled as a teacher 😅 how on earth?!?!

I would love truly learn about the logistics of this and the experiences you guys may be willing to share ❤️

That was a participation certificate tho bc I skipped too many classes to pass lol

I just finished American Primeval and loved it. I see a lot of posts complaining about what it got wrong, but I don't think it was any worse because of its story. I'd just wanted to see a gritty western and had no idea it was about the MMM or even had Brigham Young in it until I started watching it, which made it all the more fascinating.

I think it was important to get Brigham Young's vernacular right in the show. We never get to see him portrayed in this context, and a lot of people want to dismiss the entire show as total fantasy. But this rhetoric from the Reformation period that was occurring during this time period was real that fanned the flames of war, and executive producer Mark L. Smith said, "For this type of story, it was very important that we stayed authentic. Even for all the Brigham Young sermons and speeches, a lot of his dialogue I took directly from text — real sermons that he had given — and used his exact words."

I don't know if it adds anything to the conversation and anyone can look these up but I tried to locate these quotes recorded in the Journal of Discourses. I might even have missed some of his other speeches, this is all I copied from a second scan-through. Thought I'd share them here.

Show Script

EP2

"It is an ignorant excitement that causes some people of the United States to feel and act toward us the way they do. But trust me, brothers, there's not an honest man among them, who, if he could hear our doctrine taught, without knowing it was Mormon, would not drink down those principles like a thirsty ox drinks down water. But an ignorant prejudice causes them to refuse, to persecute, to threaten us with war!^(1) But we cannot weaken. We hear brethren talk of coming to Utah to enjoy the blessings of this land. What we can make it if we stay true to each other, true to our beliefs, and true to the Church. So, during this time of our reformation, when evil wants to pull us away from what brought us here, we must use the spirit of Zion to push that evil away! Push that evil away!^(1) For not today, brothers, not tomorrow, but someday in the future, our territory and this entire American continent will be Zion.^(1) Amen."

EP4

"We have endured anguish and pain to reach our Zion,^(2) and yet still they follow with their persecution. We have been trying long enough with our enemies, and I go in for letting the sword of the Almighty be unsheathed in word and in deed.^(3) For we have reached Zion, our Zion. Here is our Zion."^(2)

EP6

"Brothers and sisters, we have endured anguish and pain to reach Zion.^(2) And we must not allow men of evil to steal it away. For we are invaded by a hostile force, coming once again to plunder and burn our houses, lay waste to our fields, hoping to accomplish our destruction.^(4) But if our kingdom of God holds strong, grows, spreads, increases and prospers in its course, it will cleanse, it will purge, and purify the world from wickedness.^(5) No man, no set of men, no president shall control me before my God."^(6)

Original Text

1. Brigham Young, JD Vol. 5, pp. 4-5, "True Happiness", July 5, 1857

"We can make Zion, or we can make Babylon, just as we please. We can make just what we please of this place. The people can make Zion: they can make a heaven within themselves. When people gather here, they should come with a determination to make Zion within themselves, with the resolution that, 'I will carry myself full of the Spirit of Zion wherever I go; and this is the way in which I will control evil spirits; for I mean that my spirit shall have control over evil:' and do you not see that such a course will make Zion?

 "This American continent will be Zion; for it is so spoken of by the prophets. Jerusalem will be rebuilt and will be the place of gathering, and the tribe of Judah will gather there; but this continent of America is the land of Zion...

 "The foolish, and those who are controlled by the hissings of the priests, rage against the work of God, and corrupt politicians urge them on. There is not an honest man in the United States or in the world but what, if he could hear this doctrine taught without knowing that it was a 'Mormon' who was teaching it, would drink down these principles. They would swallow every word and say, 'That is true; you have more light than I have.' But if you say 'Mormon,' that sends the fat into the fire, and arrays their prejudices against you. Do you know this, you Elders?" [Voices, "Yes."]

 "As I have said before, I have often gone incognito, and taught persons the Gospel, and they would drink down its principles as eagerly as a thirsty ox would drink water; but an ignorant prejudice causes all the trouble. The excitement among the priests, and directed by politicians, raises this erroneous prejudice and hue-and-cry."

2. Brigham Young, JD Vol. 4, pp. 62, "Reformation Necessary Among the Saints", Sept. 21, 1856

"Have any of you suffered while coming here? Yes. How many of you sisters present buried your husbands, or your fathers, or your mothers, or children, on the Plains? How many of you brethren buried your wives? Have you suffered, and been in peril and trouble? Yes, you had to endure anguish and pain from the effects of cholera, toil, and weariness. Do you live your religion when  you get here, after all the trouble, afflictions, and pains you have passed through to come to Zion? And to a pretty Zion! Men and women start across the Plains for this place, and are they willing to wade through the snow? Yes. To travel through snow storms? Yes. To wade rivers? Yes. What for? To get to Zion. And here we are in Zion, and what a Zion! Where it is necessary for the cry of reformation to go through the land, both a spiritual and temporal reformation."

 3. Jedediah M. Grant, JD Vol. 4, pp. 50, "Rebuking Iniquity", Sept. 21, 1856

"I am speaking to you in the name of Israel's God, and you need to be baptized and washed clean from your sins, from your backslidings, from your apostasies, from your filthiness, from your lying, from your swearing, from your lusts, and from everything that is evil before the God of Israel.

"We have been trying long enough with this people, and I go in for letting the sword of the Almighty be unsheathed, not only in word, but in deed.

"I go in for letting the wrath of the Almighty burn up the dross and the filth; and if the people will not glorify the Lord by sanctifying themselves, let the wrath of the Almighty God burn against them, and the wrath of Joseph and of Brigham, and of Heber, and of high heaven."

4. Brigham Young, JD Vol. 2, pp. 172, "The Constitution and Government of the United States", Feb. 18, 1855

"Again; it was industriously circulated that we were going to declare our 'Independence,' not that we had, or intended to do so absurd a thing; yet anything, no matter how absurd, seemed sufficient excuse to startle the fears of the community, and they began to drive, plunder, rob, burn our houses, and lay waste our fields, and this was called, 'Mormon disturbances,' and the aid of the Government was invoked to quell 'Mormon insurrection,' 'Mormon troubles,' and 'Turbulent Mormons.' "

5. Brigham Young, JD Vol. 1, pp. 190, "Where the Wicked Go", June 19, 1853

"As this kingdom of God grows, spreads, increases, and prospers in its course, it will cleanse, thoroughly purge, and purify the world from wickedness. He who supposes his house to be built upon a rock, and well calculated to withstand any test that may be applied to it, finds, when it is tried by the Gospel of the kingdom, that its foundation proves to be sand, and the whole fabric appears nothing in which a man may securely trust for salvation."

 6. Brigham Young, Jr., JD Vol. 25, pp. 191, "Things Pertaining to Conscience", June 22, 1884

"But in the things pertaining to conscience, no man, no set of men, no Governor, no President, can control me before my God. I must control my own heart, my own feelings. I am a free man in relation to these matters, not bowing to any majority nor to any party. So are all the Latter-day Saints. We are free to worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience."

Quotes 3 and 6 are not quotes from Brigham Young interestingly enough, but I think they are acceptable in this context. No. 3 in particular is the heart of this sermon on blood atonement, and is a direct quote from Jedediah M. Grant, Brigham Young's second counselor, introducing the doctrine. Young's sermon immediately following this one is equally or more violent and is one of many calling for blood to be spilled. I can imagine him quoting his counselor, as the apostles still do today, in his speech, as he taught the same exact things.

Let me know if there are good ones I missed, or if there are better sources which reflect some of the less obvious language taken from Young's sermons.

I got in trouble for asking this in Sunday School many years ago.

Hi! Question- anyone here find faith as a Quaker after leaving? I am feeling drawn to the idea of everyone having their own light and having their own truth. I like that I can not know where I stand with god (even if there is one) and still be welcomed as an active part of the congregation. I like the focus on good and being there for all. Just wondering if anyone else has looked into the friends/been to meetings in Utah