(I’m 17 and english is not my first language so I apologise for any mistakes)

I go to a christian school (my choice) and I’m not in a very religious country so we have strict rules about religious school, so there is no preaching. We are multiple atheists at my school and no one cares.

But we have a mandatory subject which is basically bible studies. But very nuanced where we look at the stories from multiple angles. And when we talked about genesis my teacher taught about two different stories of creations which are both in the first two chapters of the book.

They are very different, which I see as a clear contradiction since they create stuff in different order and purpose. And yet christians love to preach about how the bible has no contradictions.

Are there any more obvious contradictions that religious people love to ignore?

(First story: whole gen 1 to gen 2:4 Second story: gen 2:5-25)

This election proves why religion shouldn’t be in politics it makes us humans primitive and controlling of others. Christians prove time and time again that they always fall victim to lies and misinformation so much that they’ve become closed minded and imbecilic, that I no longer respect religious folks since they voted for Trump. Even though I was an Atheist and respected people’s religious beliefs now that he is president and these christian dumbfucks voted for him, it filled me with so much rage that I changed my views and became an Anti- Theist. In Matthew 7:15-16 “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?” This verse means that everyone should be beware of people pretending to be prophets misleading, and lying to them and being careful, do christians read this verse? Answer is: NO they do not, instead they ignore that verse like they always ignore other verses that warns them oh what about this verse? Exodus 20:4 “You must not make any idols. Don’t make statues or pictures of anything up in the sky or of anything on the earth or of anything down in the water. Don’t worship or serve idols of any kind, because I, the LORD, am your god.” Do christians also read this verse? The answer is still: NO they do not. Rage is what drove me into becoming an Anti-Theist and I have no regrets.

I'm following a bunch of Hurricane Helene pages on FB and the knuckleheads continue to praise god for the efforts to rebuild. Not once has anyone condemned their god for creating the devastation in the first place. How convenient.

I've been seeing quite a few posts recently that have a stealth christian vibe.

It's seems so, "I'm an atheist, but..."

My internal radar says most of these are not honest posts. Just poorly composed attempts to seed some kind of doubt.

Laughable.

Hi, I'm F, mid 20yo, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I wanted to share my view on atheism as a movement and the direction it has been heading towards for a while. The rant below is representative of my personal feelings on the matter and they're not authoritative in any way, even though I try to make it as objective as possible.

As many of you, I grew up in an ultra-christian (catholic) country and it had a profound impact on me. The first wave of new atheism with figures like Dawkins and Hitchens opened my eyes to just how delusional the church was, how delusional people who still believed in this institution were. I've been having doubts for some time as a teenager back then, and the introduction to rationalism and anti-theist arguments really amplified my understanding of the world and I was so happy that I finally broke out of the dogma. A full confirmation of that direction came from the priest refusing to give my mom absolution during confession, because she wasn't married to my father at the time, despite them living in a dedicated exclusive relationship for years. That was the straw that broke the back, so to speak, after educating myself about the regular stuff - crusades, burning people at stakes, historical greed of priests, church being used as an institution for oppression and denying me my most basic reproductive rights.

I slowly shifted towards strong atheist positions, then became completely anti-theist, arguing online and participating in irl events and protests about defunding and abolishing the church. I devoured books at that time, End of Faith, Breaking the Spell, God Is Not Great and obviously The God Delusion and many more.

All of the arguments made within the books deeply resonated with me and shifted me onto a fully materialistic understanding of the world. Some of them were simplistic, some were deeper, but I needed them at the time, to break out of the mold. Now, while I participated in this movement for a long time, and nothing concerning my personal beliefs has changed, I have grown a bit disappointed in the direction we've been taking.

There has been a somewhat dumbing down of discussions about faith, christianity and religion in general in the last few years. All movements slow down, and we're in such a moment right now, with atheism being largely accepted socially compared to 10-15 years ago. I understand that. But one thing started to bother me at first - that is the white gloves we treat some topics with.

It seems to me that we were eager to tear down our own institutions of oppression but many atheists are simply choosing not to comment on muslim countries and their social practices. The double standard has been growing in force, and while I understand the arguments that the majority of new atheist movement exists in western countries, so there is less coverage of what's happening in, say, Iran, or the fact that such arguments could potentially be used by whatever far right schizo against immigrants, it still seems hypocritical to me. We shouldn't avoid telling the truth just to avoid social implications - isn't that the primary thesis of new atheism? Especially given that some people outwardly say that they won't criticize Islam because it's not their place to do so, that they're only responsible for their own cultural traditions. When did this become particularist/individualized? If this movement is not universal and applicable to every religious institution across the world, how are we to fix things? It seems like a lot of people are treating this as an outlet to get revenge on christianity after experiencing personal trauma in childhood resulting from christian social traditions and beliefs. This is an unsustainable relation to have in my opinion. If we don't have a rational, cross-cultural discussion about religions from all over the world, yes - islam, buddhism and shinto included, then this thesis is incomplete.

Another thing I've noticed is that there is something simplistic about all of this. A whole dimension is missing. Why do we believe, how do we believe? There seems to be no proper analysis of how faith effectively functions psychologically, socially. Why did it appear in the first place? Many of you treat is as just delusion, or a traditional way to desperately cope with death, but those narratives are too simplistic. If the fear of death motivates religion, how come the most religious people are ready to give their life away for it? It just seems like we settled on a very shallow analysis of religion and I really wish it could go deeper than banging the same "it's a collective delusion" drum for 10 years straight. It's a narrative that assumes other people are manipulated greatly, that they're not rational human beings choosing this road for themselves. No wonder there's a widespread opinion that atheists look down on other people, no? I've been in that position too, where I felt superior to others, the sheep manipulated by conmen, simply because of my lack of belief. Some of you still haven't broke out of this mindset. This cannot continue if you want this to be a proper movement.

Another point I am adamant about now is that the aim of the movement was to get rid of our societies from the grasp of organized religion. We have more or less achieved that goal in the west, even though there is still a long way to go. But what the death of the church resulted in is a whole different Pandora's box. Instead of achieving a society of rational thinkers and materialists, we have made people supplant participation in organized religion with extremely individualized personal new age faiths like Wicca, neopganisms, theist satanism, a sheer volume of spirituality, crystals, revival of tarot readings and horoscopes, drug fueled spiritual awakenings etc. Bulldozing the cathedral made way for new age spiritual movements to sweep in, set up their tents and deny place for rational discussion to take place. You can argue those are not as bad for the wider society as organized religion is, and maybe there is some truth to that, though let's not pretend supplanting a bigger delusion for lesser delusion is some sort of success. The point is, we have utterly failed in our original goal of spreading a rationalist mindset and there is no discussion about this at all.

I believe the above is a result of one thing - our inability to approach this matter without a black/white lens. For majority of us, religion is completely irredeemable, its' role in history of our civilization fully negative, a genuine belief that without christianity, we'd have colonies in space at this point in time. This is yet another simplistic point of view. I think, on the contrary - in order to fully, truly appreciate atheism and understand what it is about, you need to acknowledge the good things religion has historically done, the influence it had on our civilization.

The church was for the longest time on the forefront of schooling and academic knowledge, scientific inquiry, medical institutions, arts, philosophy, literature, music, civil norms, even notions that we have secularized today like humanism have begun as deeply christian in their philosophical roots. Even social justice and helping the poor have a religious background. The great achievement was to divorce all of this history from the notion of theist outward belief, to secularize them, to make them universal and apply them in the framework of law and social norm. If anyone is interested in approaching that angle critically, I recommend Stark's 'The Victory of Reason' and Tom Holland's 'Dominion'.

Another thing is the sheer inability to... talk. To be open. We've allowed this to become a wedge to drive between us and other people. It's okay to exclude religious fanatics from our social circles but excluding normal people who don't try to impose their worldview on us, just on the basis of their personal belief? We've become close minded and tribalist, just another group throwing shit at each other in the ongoing culture war. Who wins the debate, is the only question. I want to direct you to CosmicSkeptic, who has been trying to engage with religious people on equal, friendly grounds, and blowing up recently. When was the last time we were able to do that?

In my view, it has all become very simple, too simple, with many problems that are not addressed at all, and I think it's exactly why the movement is slowing down and is impotent in addressing islamic radicalization and new age spiritualism. Lately I've been drifting away from new atheism as a result, feeling less and less accomplished after engaging in this sphere. I've talked to my atheist friends, and they're feeling this way too. Does it resonate with any of you?

Sorry for the poorly formatted wall of text, I just had to put this out here.

Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

A friend was telling me about how they view the natural forces of the world as their God and that it's type of spiritualism for them. I find this take really frustrating and annoying but have a hard time articulating why. Does anyone here have a thoughts on this type of spiritual belief?

I don’t dislike Christianity, I know a lot of accepting and loving people. but I’ll never be Christian myself because I js don’t believe in it. My family says they accept it but any conversation we have abt religion it doesn’t go well because I’m always the odd one out who doesn’t believe it, and we talk about religion a lot. Wtm?

I see a lot of people online still trying to figure out how we "reach" the Christian Trump supporters and win them over with logic. If you have the answers, please tell me, because I do not know how any amount of logic and data can convince people who believe in magic. Let's take my grandmother's recent comments as an anecdotal example. "I've never seen weather like this! God is ANGRY." Sure, Grandma. I try to explain that when you burn a fossil fuel, for example, it releases CO2, which in turn has the effect of warming oceans, which strengthens hurricanes. You can actually OBSERVE the ocean temperatures and their increase if you both to look at a chart. We can go out there and measure it. No blind faith required. You can use science to verify each of these things. But climate change, that's just too crazy. God sending the storm because he's mad about...whatever? Totally logical. Another issue is they see science as simply an alternative belief system, as if it's just a competing religion. Facts and data don't make sense in this mindset.

This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to process. My uncle was a warm, loving man, someone who lit up every room he walked into. But behind that smile, he struggled with severe depression for years. He tried to get better, went to therapy, took medication, but the darkness was always there. A couple of years ago, he took his own life, and it shattered our family in ways I can’t even describe.

In the days following his death, everyone was in shock and grief. But soon, grief turned into something more complicated when certain family members began trying to explain why it happened. Instead of acknowledging the very real mental health struggles my uncle faced, they began to blame his death on a “loss of faith.” They said things like, “If only he had trusted God more” or “This wouldn’t have happened if he had kept his relationship with the Lord strong.”

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. They made it sound like his suicide was a spiritual failure, as if he hadn’t tried hard enough to cling to faith. It made me furious. How could they reduce his pain to something so simplistic, so judgmental? My uncle didn’t die because he “lost faith” – he died because he was sick, because depression took him to a place where he couldn’t see a way out. But instead of showing compassion or trying to understand the complexity of mental illness, my family turned to religious explanations that only deepened the shame and stigma.

It broke my heart, and it made me question everything I’d been taught about God and religion. If a loving god existed, why would he let someone as wonderful as my uncle suffer so deeply? And why would that god supposedly punish someone for not being able to keep up their faith while battling a disease that robbed them of hope? The idea that my uncle’s death was a punishment or a result of a “lack of faith” felt cruel, not comforting.

Since then, I’ve become more vocal about the importance of understanding mental health outside the lens of religion. People suffering from depression don’t need judgment or religious lectures – they need empathy, understanding, and real help. My uncle deserved better, and I’ve come to realize that faith isn’t always the answer, especially when it’s used to explain away or diminish real, human suffering.

I still miss him every day. And I’ve made it my mission to honor his memory by being an advocate for mental health, free from the guilt and stigma that religion often adds. He deserved compassion, not blame. We all do.

So I have recently given up on my religion (raised Christian) as I believe if there truly was a god, this election cycle and all the horrible things happening to people across the world wouldn’t be happening. My mom who has always tried to stick to Christian values likes to always say “well god gave man free will and they voted so”. Mind you she voted Harris, as did I. What do I say when she responds about free will? It doesn’t make any sense to me. God gives man free will to take away my free will? Like to me it’s just an excuse for people to do shit things then pray for forgiveness on Sunday. Frankly I find it just frustrating. My mom and I have a very good relationship despite her struggling to accept my “abandonment” of my faith. Frankly I always found it hypocritical and confusing as a child/teen and didn’t have the right time/place/mindset to leave it behind. Now I do but I’m still struggling to deal with family members who always want to bring it up or give me “words of encouragement” yet always relate it back to religion. I get it works for them for getting through their life but frankly my religious upbringing just always made me scared of going to hell and led to some unresolved trauma that I’ll soon be seeking therapy for. I want to be honest with my mom especially and she’ll bring religion into the conversation then shut down and change the subject when I share my thoughts.

Relating into this as well, as mentioned I was raised Christian like majority of my family. Majority also voted for Trump and I find it very difficult to process that these people that I thought were so good and righteous are sheep to a racist herder. I want to share my opinion on my own fb page and shit like that but then those family members always attack me for it and tell me I’m the problem. I want to tell them all to F*** off but I also don’t want it to be awkward when I want to see the other family members that aren’t that way.

Thanks for reading. Any advice is helpful! Any hateful comments will be ignored.

This happened a few years back, and I still think about it often. My dad was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and it felt like our entire world fell apart. He was always the strong one in our family, the one who kept everyone together, and watching him fight this disease was brutal. We were all doing our best to support him, spending as much time as we could with him, but the fear and sadness were overwhelming.

One Sunday, our family went to church, hoping to find some comfort. The pastor knew about my dad’s illness, and during the sermon, he addressed it directly. I thought maybe he’d offer words of hope or encouragement, but instead, he said something that made my stomach turn. He talked about how God uses suffering to “bring people closer to Him” and how maybe my dad’s cancer was part of God’s plan to help us find our faith. He said that sometimes, God needs to “shake us” to get our attention and that this could be a chance for spiritual growth.

I was sitting there, numb with disbelief. How could anyone think that my dad’s suffering was some kind of divine tool for spiritual growth? My dad, the most selfless, hardworking person I knew, didn’t deserve this. It was like the pastor was saying we should be grateful for the pain, as if cancer was a gift wrapped in some twisted version of God’s love. I looked around and saw people nodding along, and I felt so angry and alone in that moment.

It made me question everything about faith and how people justify suffering. Why would a loving god need to inflict that kind of pain just to get our attention? Why did everything have to be part of a bigger plan, even if it meant innocent people were left to suffer? The idea that my dad’s illness was supposed to make us “better Christians” felt sickening.

I left that service feeling more disconnected from religion than ever before. Instead of finding comfort, I felt betrayed by a belief system that would try to make sense of our suffering in such a cold, detached way. Since then, I’ve stepped away from trying to find divine reasons for things that just… hurt. Sometimes suffering is just suffering, and we don’t need to wrap it in a theological bow. My dad deserved compassion and support, not empty talk about spiritual lessons.

We like to jump to conclusion that a lot of Christians are judgmental and condescending in nature, which is true to an extent, I just believe they preach a sentiment they do not fully understand.

"Focus of house and home."
"Don't let the immigrants in"
"Care for the people in your life and of your own country."
"Teach a man to fish, don't feed him."

Fundamentally on a human level this makes sense but my interpretation of it is simple.

Be kind to all and willing to accept we will make mistakes and forgive them.
As an example, just because someone is gay or trans, they should be forsaken. No.
Love and respect all.

Self righteousness runs rampant in the wrong Christian circles because they do not understand the real message.

The try to save other people so much and don't understand they are just casting the first stone.

I have two weeks left.

My christian parents are kicking me out because I'm "lazy, unmotivated, and rude". They don't understand I can't go to college or work because of my anxiety. I can't do much except stay in my room. They say I'm respectful for refusing to go to church and yelling at them. I try not to yell out at them, but I can't stand their christian views. I should feel bad but I don't. I'm trans and while they don't discriminate against me, they probably want to secretly. And the election hasn't made anything better. They probably voted Trump. Just so done with them.

Good Christians

Who do we lift up and praise

To be the role models

to the children we raise?

Look at this woman,

educated and accomplished.

Worked so hard her whole life.

No, not her.

We'll take the turd

who beat, raped, and cheats on his wife.

Worship the man with the golden face

who rapes children and lies

straight to your face.

Tell your children that even they

can be president one day

if they just work hard and be true.

Tell them all to be good little boys.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

Tell your daughters that you love them,

just not enough to protect them

from men who will take away their rights.

"What would Jesus Do"

While you spit on his teachings?

Do you think he would stand next to you?

The mark of the beast upon your heads

With MAGA hats in bright red

Blinding you from the truth.

You're sheep to the slaughter

You've sacrificed your daughters

Now watch as they tighten the noose

Your false idol has been chosen.

Your heaven has been stolen

by the one that promised to save you.

Damnation awaits while they fill their plates

and you're taking all of us with you.

-a Daughter to Christians

I'm on mobile and can't format it the way I'd like. Sorry.

I don't know if this belongs here. I don't know where to post it. I'll take it down if it doesn't fit here.

“You can’t convince a believer of anything ; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe.”

As many people formulate their perspectives of morality due to their religion, I’m curious how an Atheist views the above concepts.

I am in LA this week and the day before the election I had interesting chats with a couple of locals. One guy, from the Caribbean, told me that “here in LA public schools have secret rooms where boys have to wear dresses and make up during school hours, then they get back to their normal clothes before going home”.

Then I spoke to a guy from Central America, who was trying to get a job at McDonald’s. He told me the “prices at McD’s are so expensive nowadays because of the high minimum wages in California”.

How can it be at all possible that these two guys, who have a lot to lose from the future Trump presidency, can believe in these absurd lies and shoot themselves in the foot so badly?

In my opinion, religion plays a huge part in this problem.

Faith is believing in something without any evidence. Religions promote faith because their claims are so absurd, if you have a minute of doubt, you stop believing. When you are religious, you are always told not question anything.

So when people blindly believe "an angel got a virgin pregnant, she had a baby that later on performed miracles, then he died and ressurected", what will people not believe in?

If someone is gullible enough to fall for this madness, how will they not fall for “they’re eating the dogs”, or “kids get sex change operations at school”?

It's about time we stop being so respecful and tolerant towards people’s own beliefs. I do respect people who have their own imaginary friends, but I cannot respect this being allowed to be said out loud like it’s a normal thing.

When people cannot tell the difference between truth and blatant lies, and their gullibility threatens the health of the world’s democracies, it’s time we say enough is enough.

I know Dawkins and Gervais can be arrogant and out of touch. But I think we need more people like them telling it like it is: religion is stupidity, and it’s killing our planet.

I love my kids (14m, 9f) more than anything in the world. They’ve both been raised as skeptics (scientific skepticism) and they view religions as outdated fairytales.

I want my kids to live in a world where people can understand the difference between evidence, burden of proof, reality, fiction and lies

I can’t seem to find meaning in life, or something to fight for. I have no problem determining a system of morality and ethics, but the difficulty comes when trying to find motivation to live for.

While I was reading this, I felt a real headache.

https://ptv.org/dr-robert-jeffress-remarks-on-attempted-assassination-of-president-trump/

This is one of those moments that made me question everything about the faith I grew up with. My sister and her husband have been trying to have a baby for years. They’ve gone through countless fertility treatments, procedures, and all the emotional rollercoasters that come with infertility. It’s been heartbreaking to watch her struggle, to see the toll it’s taken on her both physically and mentally. She’s always wanted to be a mom more than anything, and every setback feels like a knife to the heart.

One day, my mom and I were talking about my sister’s latest round of failed IVF. I was venting about how unfair it all was, how good people like her didn’t deserve to go through this. And then my mom said something I’ll never forget: “Maybe this is God’s way of punishing her. She hasn’t been living the way God wants.” I was shocked, to say the least. My sister isn’t even some wild rebel – she’s just not as religious as my mom would like her to be. But the idea that God would deliberately make someone suffer like this, just because they don’t go to church or follow religious rules to the letter? It felt so incredibly cruel.

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. My mom genuinely thought that infertility – something deeply painful and personal – could be a divine punishment. It made me furious. How could anyone look at someone’s suffering and chalk it up to a lesson or punishment from a higher power? My sister didn’t deserve this, and she certainly didn’t need our mom’s judgment on top of everything else.

It was a huge turning point for me. It made me realize how often religion is used to explain away suffering in the most unhelpful ways, blaming people for things completely out of their control. Why would a supposedly loving god inflict so much pain just to teach a lesson? It doesn’t make sense, and it only adds unnecessary guilt and shame to an already painful situation.

Since that day, I’ve distanced myself from the idea that everything bad happens for a divine reason. Sometimes life is just hard and unfair, and people deserve compassion, not judgment, when they’re going through something so difficult. My sister needs support, not lectures about God’s will. If anything, this experience has made me even more committed to being there for her in real, meaningful ways that don’t rely on religious platitudes.

Of course, I'm not religious however, the Bible seems to have some crazy Skyrim-type lore.

Also, it sounds useful to have knowledge about the religion that dominates my country.

Seems pretty long though, is it worth it?

Many years ago I signed the Charter for Compassion. When I did I chose to volunteer with food security, libraries and herbal medicine teaching and sharing. I thought that it is a way to share with others is a small way.

In these darkening days of winter and hope it is time to send it around the web again, as a another small defiant path forward.

https://charterforcompassion.org/sign-the-charter.html

So I'm (secretly (shh)) lesbian and I've been raised pentecostal, I attend a catholic sixth form and went to catholic school. As a result, I've developed quite a bit of self-hatred.

My religious studies class unintentionally sent me into crisis and made me a big atheist and now i don't know what to do.

What's the easiest thing I can do to step toward a better life away from these toxic groups even though I can't go to uni yet, can't move sixth form and obviously can't leave my family?

my sixth form is EXTREMELY homophobic. It's majority catholic and muslim. 3 random paraphrased convos I've overheard this week to demonstrate how shit it is:

- "well yeah, she cheated and that's one thing, but she's also bisexual. that's a whole other type of bad"

- "i'm not helping you"

"why not?"

"____ told me you're gay!"

"I- I'm not?"

"okay but i can't risk it. all gay people have aids"

- "we literally have lesbians at this f**cking school."

"who?"

"have you seen the f**cking basketball team? d*kes"

​

my parents are slightly more chill people but absolutely not people i could ever discuss this with and i hear some of the worst homophobia from my best friends.

Just saw Hugh Grants movie Heretic and I think it fell flat in the third act, when it really had the opportunity to make a good point. I’ve seen many many people who have watched it make jokes about the main character being a “Reddit atheist” and was wondering if any of yall had thoughts on the movie ( if you’ve watched it already obviously). I just think it failed to stick the landing and felt like at points it was trying to not be too offensive to religion or truly present something to think about after watching it. In the first half of the film it really felt like it was heading somewhere truly interesting but that ending just got kinda weird and it felt like I lost what the film as a whole was trying to say.

It really is something that seems to have become prevalent these days, with many supposedly Christian organizations getting involved in politics far beyond simply encouraging members to vote. When they actively spend money promoting a candidate or initiative, it crosses a line. Tax-exempt religious organizations are forbidden from engaging in such activities, yet it seems they often do so with impunity. Perhaps if people reported these organizations, they would at least be warned to stop or risk jeopardizing their tax-exempt status. I found some information about it from the IRS at https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations And the form to complete is:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

For info i am not of legal age in my country yet, and for the longest time i was "Christian" forced upon me by my family, i went through physical abuse, solitude and all sorts of mental anguish up until i was early 15 where my single mother could no longer "control" me, that was a year or so ago and have recently turned 16.

Now that's aside there has been this guy, I won't say out his name but he is a very well known person in my state for being able to perform "miracles", I've been to three of his so called miraculous events (2 around 3 years ago and 1 around 2 years ago) where i was dragged by my mother, needless to say it's obviously bullshit and have been pointing it out to close friends and my mother, but my words holds no weight, my state is a self proclaimed "Christian" state so it's pretty hard to directly challenge him in public as it'll mean im attacking everyone's faith and i don't really want to do that, I've tried to reach out to him once but said he was busy preparing for a speech he has in a few minutes and after that all my calls are unanswered and that only raises more red flag, he is a respected figure in our society blinded purely by faith and maybe greed on his end.

Im really out of options here and I'll be glad if i can recieve some advice on how to approach such situation, yea the time gap might be glaring between now and the last time i went to his event because i have totally forgoted about him up until recently where my mother brought up that he "cured" someone's cancer which i feel was insulting, not to mention where in one case he allegedly recovered someone's missing bone soley by doing a prayer.