Obviously at the very top tier are EOS Ollie and EOS Sara.

Who would be below them, in order?

I’m rewatching the seasons right now and I am just now noticing that after about season 3 they basically stopped using city shots before introducing scenes, and basically shots of buildings that the scenes are taken place in. The camera quality definitely changed and in my opinion worse and I think they did it more so for the fight scenes but I always thought it seemed more realistic in the earlier seasons. And the scenes back then could hold a tone without the constant background music. Love Blake Neely but not as much in the later seasons. They needed some more actual songs in scenes like again, the earlier seasons. Lastly I need to say they needed more outdoor scenes in the later seasons. I was getting claustrophobic for them by not seeing them outside except for some fight scenes at night.

Sorry I’m just thinking about all this right now. What do you guys think?

Infamously, there's Oliver beating Ra's, a centuries-old super-assassin.

But there's also Al-Owal who dies like a bitch despite him supposedly being pretty high up in the League, Nyssa not being above Sara despite having decades on her in training time, Thea getting so good so quickly etc. Although Thea never really went up against a top tier who genuinely wanted to kill her.

And Oliver who has a few months with Slade, pretty much no training time after that (Season 2 he's stuck on a ship, Season 3 hes running around China, Season 4 he fights magic, and then he gets a month or two at best with Talia), yet somehow is the best fighter in the whole show, even with weapons he doesn't usually use, like swords.

I get that street level martial arts has a lot to do with youth, speed, natural skill and focus/determination, not just experience, and I get that they have plot armor. But it gets a little silly. I guess I'm meant to accept that Oliver's a once-in-centuries talent that would dominate the UFC and win every Taekwondo gold medal. Sure. I could accept that.

I can accept that Merlyn, in between his plans to quake half a city, and running a business, is running around in his little loft practicing his archery and swordplay all night.

I would have had Ra's not be defeated at all, but rather an ever present threat that the heroes are constantly terrified of intervening.

I would have Merlyn be Oliver's main rival, in a Reverse flash sort of way where he can only barely get the upper hand if they do fight, and the final duel of the show is him vs Merlyn.

Talia could have been a main villain, and trained not just Oliver but one of the main villains, yet loses like an idiot to her little sister.

And Al Owal should have been a much bigger deal.

The show portrays him to be? He gets all the Women. Everyone seems to fall in love with him in short time

Is it his charm? Being calm? Confident? All of that?

Edit: he is definitely above average

First it looks like he’s throwing a tantrum over not being the Green Arrow anymore even though it shouldn’t matter what suit he wears because he does much as good as Spartan so it looks like he’s coming off as childish. Then suddenly he turns into an asshole thinking that Oliver is a bad leader, and he blames him for all the problems going on, which is so not in his character.

1. Season 3 Thea
2. Season 4 Thea
3. Season 5 Thea
4. Season 6 Thea
5. Season 8 Thea

For context, I'm rewatching the show with my brother after not having seen it for a while. We recently finished season 1 and I thought of some questions as we were watching that I discussed with my brother but wanted to get some other opinions

1. In Season 1 Episode 18 (maybe 28 min into the episode), when Dinah was so absolutely certain that the picture she found (while looking for signs that Sara was alive) of the girl wearing the Starling City Rockets cap in China was Sara and that she was out there somewhere and alive. Dinah is so absolutely sure this girl is Sara because the picture resembled her and was taken in an area around where the Queens' Gambit may have gone down and because Sara had that same hat (Dinah mentions how she remembered the day Quentin bought Sara that hat)

There's a "moment of realization" where Laurel asks Dinah how she knew Sara brought that hat with her onto the Gambit and that's how Laurel and Quentin learn that Dinah knew Sara went on the Gambit but I don't understand why this would have that implication? My brother thought it was because it was Dinah's main basis for why she thought the girl in the picture was Sara but I didn't really see it that way.

I feel like if I were Dinah, even if I didn't know Sara went onto the Gambit, I would have felt the same way she did when coming across that pic and I esp would have gotten excited seeing the hat in the pic bc what are the odds a girl that looks just like Sara in an area near where the Gambit went down while wearing a hat I know she owns isn't her?? Esp a Starling City specific hat?

Maybe I would have gone through Sara's room to make sure the hat wasn't there (because if it was at home, she would have no way of having the hat) but maybe I wouldn't in the excitement of thinking she's still out there, idk.

2. Was Oliver wrong for ODing the Count on vertigo? Was that justice/justified or just petty revenge? (idr the episode number rip and also off topic but the Count's recovery made no sense??? like he was written off as completely insane with no hopes of recovering and then all of a sudden just recovers off screen and comes back totally fine???)

I'm not sure on how I feel about certain crimes being reciprocated on the committer of the crime ie SA but I also get the point of the punishment fitting the crime and reaping what you sow and karma etc.

My brother felt Oliver was motivated by revenge and that it was also wrong because he injected the count with the entire syringe (idr how much he injected Oliver with but I think it wasn't the entire syringe?) but with a case like this, esp since the count has done this to at least one other person if not more, I have a hard time feeling like it wasn't deserved in his case and therefore justified (or idk if there's a technical difference between something being justified vs justice? Is justice only justice because it's justified? Or can something be justified while not necessarily being justice?)

Or another example with killing which ig is relevant in Arrow or superhero media in general. I get the "no killing" rule in terms of you can't come back from it, it's hard to know where to draw the line or it's sort of opening the door which makes it easier for more darkness to come through or even the trauma from taking a life but I've never understood the logic of "killing this murderous villain makes me, the hero, just as bad as them". Esp in the case of someone who most likely will kill more people if they don't die/aren't killed. I don't want to indirectly blame the hero for those potential deaths because the villain is still responsible for the lives they take but at the same time, the hero in a way had the opportunity to prevent the villain from taking those lives in the future by taking the villain's life themself. I don't mean it in a blamey way but I feel it's not really wrong in that case with the intentions ig?

3. In episode 20 of Season 1, about 9 minutes into the episode I believe, Tommy gets mad about Laurel not telling him that she had lunch with Oliver the other day and it was unclear to me as to whether he was mad about it because Oliver is technically Laurel's ex or because of Oliver being the Hood (because Tommy had recently found Oliver was the Hood)

Idr exactly bc I put off making this post bc I had to put it into coherent sentences lmao and I thought it was bc of the Hood thing (partially bc Oliver lied to Tommy but also the killing) but at a certain point, I'm pretty sure Tommy wanted Oliver around Laurel to protect her or at least trusted him to protect her?

But my brother thought Oliver technically being Laurel's ex was a bigger factor because "being friends with your ex is a red flag" which I get but at the same time, it's not always like that, esp since Tommy was the one who pushed Laurel to be friends with Oliver again when he came back to Starling City while she and Tommy kinda had a thing albeit unofficial at the time (I know there ended up being some lingering feelings there but iirc, Oliver stepped aside for Tommy (though I also get why Tommy was upset at the idea/fact that Laurel would have chosen Oliver over him if she had been more informed) but before he knew about Hood thing, again, *he* was the one who pushed them to be friends again so why would he be mad about friends getting lunch together?? And that just seems like a kind of awkward convo to have w a partner if it doesn't come up organically that you're having lunch with so and so on this day, even if so and so happens to be your ex and mutual friend w your current partner?

Like ig you could just be like "hey babe btw I'm having lunch with Oliver today/tomorrow/next week etc jsyk" and not that I'd hide anything from a partner if they wanted to know this stuff but it would just feel awkward out of nowhere ig? Like if it really mattered to my partner, I'd let them know but if it were vice versa, I'd prob be confused and just be like "okay? have fun lol"

But yea, just wanted to get other people's perspectives/opinions on these lol

I'm rewatching the show and there is a massive plot hole/error that's been bothering me. In season 1 Malcolm tells Moira that he's sorry that he had to take Robert from her. If Moira knew that Malcolm was going to drown the Queen's Gambit, and kill Robert, why would she let Oliver get on the boat too? She's waving her son off to his death. This contradicts her character, i.e. her being the type of mother who would do anything to protect her children. I would assume she would tie Oliver to his bed before she let him get on the Gambit. Forcing him to sneak out behind her back and leaving her guilt-riddled over the alleged death of her son for five years.

Did I miss, or misinterpret, something or is this another plot in the long list of Arrow plot holes?

So I'm rewatching the enterity of arrow and am on season six, at the point where team arrow spilts into two. I remember when I originally watched it absolutely hating this storyline and rewatching now it feels the same and I was curious if others had the same opinion on the whole split up.

So they split because team B felt betrayed after Team A spied on them ( fair enough ) but they did that because one of them betrayed them and it obviously wasn't going to be the wife or best friend of the arrow so of course they knew it was one of the other 3.

Obviously Rene was the one to do it but then he's gets on his whole high horse like he's in the right? I just don't know if it's bad writing or I'm just biased but the whole scenario seems so forced and makes no sense, I know there are other plot points which are supposed to add to why the team splits but to me it just feels so empty and like they just needed more drama.

Curious if anyone else feels the same or if anyone else had a opposite opinion and why, super keen to hear from another side because I am most definitely biased😂

Just curious. I noticed a lot of people here hate her character and call her annoying. I think she’s sexy asf for one but tbh I didn’t hate her character nearly as much as Laurel I thought she was the annoying one constantly being needy. Just looking for peoples opinion.

Bro Merlin killed Sara and like thousands of people he also caused the Undertaking in Season 1 that killed Tommy meaning technically he got his own son killed too. Why on earth would the risk war with league over that Bullshit is he stupid, LET HIM DIE he’s a serial killer it’s not murder the courts would have given him the death penalty for his crimes anyway. This is the same frustration for this episode as I have when Batman puts the Joker back in Arkham and he breaks out for the Millionth time knowing he’s gonna break out.

Why are there so many variations of the pronunciation in this show? Is it just some actors deciding to try and stand out? Phonetically we have Raaz, Raash, Raish...

let me know if im being stupid and if this is covered, but in s8, when earth 1 oliver is put on earth 2 by the monitor, where is earth 2 oliver? does he exist? surely there has to be an earth 2 version of oliver queen as there is an earth 2 version of everyone

just finished my first ever watch of the show and very curious to hear all opinions

In the Arrow, Sara's archery ability is rarely reflected. We all know that Sara has strong fighting skills. What about archery skills?

And just a reminder so you know what shows the Arrowverse had:

Arrow

The Flash

Supergirl

The Legends of Tomorrow

Black Lightning

Batwoman

Superman & Lois

There was also Constantine, Vixen, Freedom Fighters, and Stargirl but I consider those not really essential to watch, but you can include them if you wish.

It's a bit weird to see them joking around and only seeing Barry actually cares about the fact that he is married. Idk why they sidelined Felicity.

Last week, I made a post about how I thought Laurel should've been the deuteragonist in the show. And as I usually do when I make those kinds of posts, I rework how I would establish her as an important secondary character from the start. (Just putting this out there, this is my first time getting deep into I guess you can call it fanfiction. So if you figure I get into too many details or not enough that is why. And also I'll be referring to Laurel as Dinah in this)

1x01-OLIVER The episode starts out the same it did in the original Oliver Queen getting rescued from Lian Yu The next scene is Dinah Lance talking to Joanna who is trying to convince Dinah that going after Adam Hunt is a bad idea. While that conversation is happening they hear the words “Oliver Queen is alive” on the News. This is where we get the exposition of who Oliver Queen is, how he was on the Queen's gambit when it sank, how long he's been missing, and who else was on that boat. The news also confirms the deaths of his father Robert Queen and Dinah's sister Sara Lance. But before they went into more details with Sara, Dinah turns off the TV and walks away. (The reason this scene is after the Oliver rescue is the established Dinah as a deuteragonist AKA the second most important character in this show)

Next scene is Oliver in the mansion getting welcome backs from Mora Queen, Walter, Tommy, and Thea. They have dinner and Oliver leaves early to get to bed The next scene is cutting back and forward between Oliver and Dinah trying to go to sleep but can't stop thinking about each other

The next morning Everything from Oliver talking to Thea and the ride with tommy stays the same (except for that comment of Tommy calling Thea hot) and Oliver tells Tommy he wants to see Dinah.

Oliver is at the defence attorney's office to look for Dinah. While he is waiting, he looks at a picture of Sara on her desk. Then he looks at a file that’s labeled Adam Hunt. Oliver remembers that name from his list that he got from his father. While that’s happening someone tells dinah that someone is waiting for her in her office. Dinah goes to her desk to find no one there. But out of the window she sees Oliver outside leaving.

Right as Oliver and Tommy are leaving they get kidnapped Oliver tells the kidnappers you “failed this City” and kills them all Oliver tells detective Lance the a guy in a green arrow saved them

The next scene is Dinah in a boxing gym training with Ted Grant working out her frustrations with everything that happened the last couple of days Mainly with the fact that Oliver in her words “coward out” yesterday when she saw him leaving without saying anything. Ted advises if she really needs to get something off her chest don't wait for him to come to her.

We meet Diggle, Oliver goes to his father's old warehouse and starts setting up and suiting up to threaten Adam Hunt. Everything from that to the homecoming party for Oliver stays the same up until Oliver bumped into Dinah They both stare at each for an awkward amount of time Oliver said “hi” Dinah responds with a soft “hey” More awkward silence occurs till Dinah subjects that they talk somewhere quieter. We get the scene of them catching up from the original where it ends with Oliver telling Dinah that he hasn't changed and to stay away from him.

Everything after that scene stays the same as it did in the original

1x02-DINAH (this rewrite is mixing the original 1x02 and 1x04) Episode starts out with Dinah in the wildcat gym late at night letting out her frustrations on a punching bag. While she's punching, we get flashes of the previous episode of seeing the news of Oliver being alive to her seeing Oliver leaving her job without saying anything to Oliver telling her to stay away. Dinah tires herself out and realizes that the bag is leaking. While she cleaning the mess, she gets a text from Ted Grant “Let me know when you're home safe. I'm hearing that the masked vigilante is out tonight.” The cut to the scene where Oliver is fighting security guards and threatening someone on the list.

The morning Oliver goes to the living room to see his family watching a documentary of Peter Declan, the man convicted of killing his wife. While he's looking at the TV, Walter asks Oliver if he has any questions about his proof of right declaration to the court that's supposed to happen the next day. Oliver was not listening because he saw Martin Somers doing an interview in the documentary. Oliver recognized that name being on the list. Moira calls Oliver name and his refocus of his family

Later in the night, Dinah gets home from work and sees her lights are not working, then she sees The Hood standing on the other side of the room. He tells her that he thinks Declan was framed by Martin Somers and asks for her help to prove it.

Dinah talks to Peter Declan to get his side of the story. Declan mentions that his wife found out that Martin Somers was smuggling money for the Chinese mob and went to talk to her supervisor Matt Istook.

The next day Oliver goes to the courthouse for proof of life. While Oliver is leaving with Tommy, they run into Dinah and Joanna. They have another awkward conversation and Dinah walks right in-between Oliver and Tommy. Dinah, after talking to Declan and getting the police report from her detective Lance, talks to the judge about a potential retrial. She brings up how Matt Istook's testimony doesn't line up with what Declan says. The judge tells them it's not enough to get a retrial.

The hood contacts Dinah and she tells him about Matt Istook and the hood threaten him to get leverage on Somers. He gives it to Dinah and she says “thank you Robin Hood”. That comment made Oliver smile a little.

The next day Dinah brings the new evidence to the judge, with Martin Somers and his lawyers present, but the judge still denies a retrial. This is when Dinah realizes that the judge is in Somers pocket. Dinah assures Somers that it is not over. Somers discusses with Chinese mob leader China White about making a plan to kill Dinah.

Everything after that scene plays out the same way in the original episode. Oliver and Dinah eat ice cream at her apartment, China White and the mob break in to try to kill her, Diggle comes to the rescue and Oliver goes after Somers to get a confession.

These two episodes set up what the status quo for the rest of the first season will be. The dynamic is Dinah looking toward the legal system and the hood goes outside the system to help people. This is basically what it was like already but turned up to 11.

What do you think I would like to hear any feedback on this.

I’ve seen up to season 7 a couple times but I always tap out around then. How does it end?

https://preview.redd.it/9agb4zw6ssfe1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=09b6e14cccd8f027d83a884bbe917b7f49de2ec9

Theres this youtube channel Soundtrack Central, They put together a ton of arrowverse themes, I'm particularly in love with the prometheus one and the season 4 one. I find an hour to spare and I sit down close my eyes and listen to them, Gets me through life.