/r/leanfire

Photograph via snooOG

For those that want to approach the problem of financial independence from a minimalist, stoic, frugal, or anti-consumerist trajectory.

If you want to retire before 60 with less than $50k in planned yearly household expenses ($25k individual), this is the place to discuss it!

If you want to retire before 60 with less than $50k in planned yearly household expenses ($25k individual), this is the place to discuss it!

Getting started

FI/RE = Financially Independent / Retired Early

LeanFIRE = doing so with household expenses < $50k, or individual expenses < $25k

Flair: You can edit your own flair. Only include as much information as you feel comfortable including and the guidelines are not required. The general format - [Current Age + Sex / Spend / Save % / Networth - Target Age / Spend / Networth] Example: [45f/24k/30% - 50/20k/500k]

Related Subreddits:
/r/PovertyFIRE
/r/LeanishFIRE
/r/financialindependence
/r/Fire
/r/ChubbyFIRE
/r/fatFIRE
/r/FIREyFemmes/
/r/baristafire/
/r/coastFIRE/
/r/personalfinance
/r/personalfinancecanada
/r/EuropeFIRE/
/r/fican/
Philosophy
/r/stoicism
/r/minimalism
/r/anticonsumption
/r/simpleliving
/r/permaculture
Housing
/r/vandwellers
/r/homesteading
/r/tinyhouses
Transportation
/r/lowcar
/r/bikecommuting
/r/publictransit
Food
/r/eatcheapandhealthy
/r/fitmeals
/r/mealprepsunday

ER Blogs:
Jacob Fisker's Early Retirement Extreme
Mister Money Mustache
The Mad FIentist
J.L. Collins NH
GoCurryCracker
Root of Good

FI Resources:
Bogleheads Wiki
Early-Retirement.org

/r/leanfire

315,113 Subscribers

1

Advice on my situation

0 Comments
2024/11/02
03:40 UTC

9

Can you do it off a HYSA and a PT job??

Keep in mind, I’m somewhat new and this question is based around seeing that the standard withdrawal from accounts is 3-5% after retiring.

If you build up enough in a HYSA at 4-4.5% and even kept a part-time job for, say $25k/year, if the balance was high enough, wouldn’t that be easier than having IRAs, 401ks, investments, ext.?

19 Comments
2024/11/01
16:31 UTC

4

Invest in home/rental property?

33m here, single, no kids, work remote making $95k a year. Wanting to gauge my situation because its a bit unusual. I work remote in a very stress free job with a lot of downtime. Im from CA but since being remote for the past 2 years, i've travled a lot over the country staying in airbnbs for weeks/months at a time in different cities, bit of a nomad lifestyle. Currently renting month to month in Montana paying $1350 for rent.

I know I'm a bit behind in savings. I have $50K in a HYSA paying 4.5% or so. I also have about $40K in stocks right now. I have $35K in my 401k/Roth. No debt (well I have a $10k student loan i'm waiting on the small chance it will be forgiven, but will probably pay that off completely soon), car paid off, most things I own I travel with in my car so I can go and stay anywhere.

I put about 17% into my 401K/Roth and that leaves me with about $4000 take home pay a month. Typically I would say im saving money for a downpayment for a house (once I figure out what state.I want to live in), but my uncle is very well off (Im inheriting his estate in a trust and will inherit 2 homes + 2 properties when he passes, he's 70 so not anytime soon) and he is going to "buy" me a house worth around $500k when I am ready to settle down and pick a place where I want to live. The house will be in his name, he will pay property tax and insurance, but will be in the trust in my name so will be mine down the road.

I want to become financially independent in the next 5-10 years. Since i'm not really saving for anything, and have a lot of free time with no family commitments, i'm thinking of potentially buying a rental home/duplex that I can rent out on airbnb. I love Montana and the western US, but properties are much much higher than a lot of midwest cities. Im in the beginning stages of research, but it looks like there are a lot of midsize midwest cities such as cincinatti, bloomington IL, Pittsburgh and other PA aras, etc. 3 bed home seem to be $150K-$250K in some areas.

Been doing the math. Im thinking putting 10-20% down (Maybe $30K) or so on a property from my HYSA. And getting my first airbnb home and furnishing it. I know it will be work. Im already paying $1300-$1500 in rent wherever I go when I pay rent when traveling. Im thinking maybe get a duplex so I can live in the other half. Or just rent out the while think and I can rent a cheap room in a home to save money. Seems the mortgage payment will be about the same that im paying in rent, except it will go toward equity. Airdna and research shows I can revenue potentially $2-3K a month. Worst case if it doesnt rent, I can simply just live in it. Looking at places that have a high rent to purchase ratio to invest in.

I think I may be over my. head. I have never owned a home before, I know there will be expenses I dont know about plus taxes, insurances, fixes etc. But I want to commit to something to be financially independent. Have watched a lot of videos saying people do this to slowly build to 5-7 properties and wondering if this is a feasible method by slowly learning a market and buying more and more. Im not afraid to eventually make this my full time job. I know some people do multiple FHA loans putting only 3.5% down, not sure if this is feasible so I dont have to wait until I get more money to invest in properties.

7 Comments
2024/11/01
01:07 UTC

0

FI by 30

I'm 24, from the EU and this is a very ambitious target.

But the numbers make sense.

Currently I have 40k invested and 20K cash. My income has been slowly increasing 22k (intern) in 2022 to 55k today, I expect this to keep rising as I am currently paid very much on the low side. My savings rate is very high due to a very managable budget of 12K per year.

I'm saving around 30K per year, and investing around 70% of this in VOO (well VUSA because of EU rules)

This means by 30 at a 10% return I will have close to 300K.

At a 4% withdrawal rate is should have a stable income of around 12k FI.

It is likely that my living costs will go up over time, but I expect this is be canceled out by increase in income.

I am planning to have a long career, main goal is FI or partial FI. My understanding is: You only need to reach FI once, might as well do it early.

14 Comments
2024/10/31
23:30 UTC

1

Selling Vanguard - Which Close price will be used?

I sold all of my shares today before 4pm EST, yesterday stock price was $139 and today is $136 per share. Which stock price will be used to sell it? Is it $139 or $136? VTSAX - mutual fund?

4 Comments
2024/10/31
23:23 UTC

29

Am I on the right Track? (28m, 70k salary, Fire number ~500,000)

Hi all, just wanted to see if I'm thinking about this the right way.

Target Age of Retirement ~ 40

Expenses yearly ~ $44,000 (rent, food, car, insurance, etc)

I'm looking to leanfire when I hit my lean FIRE number of 500,000

My NW is about ~160,000 and I'm putting away about 20% of my salary yearly ~$14,000

This money would then be invested in the S&P 500 until I hit my fire number where I would pull out about 4% ~ 20,000 yearly.

I would supplement the rest of the expenses through passion jobs which could include yoga teaching, volleyball coach, pickleball instructor, etc. ~ 20 hours a week.

This system only works if I consider my own personal finances and not that of my partners. I'm generally frugal and minimilastic.

Is there anything I am overlooking, inflation, emergency expenditures, lifestyle inflation after retiring, etc?

20 Comments
2024/10/30
16:31 UTC

5

Any LeanFIRE success stories from FTEs who turned freelance?

Have you or someone you know successfully LeanFIRE’d from freelancing?

Considering making the change from FTE (full-time employee) to freelance, starting with an old employer who would be my first/only client. The work itself wouldn’t change - just using the same skills learned from FTE. Depending how that goes, maybe I could continue to build a client base from there.

I want to go in with eyes wide open. As a lifelong FTE’er the change seems scary and potentially like a mistake when I could just suck it up and push through with stable FTE until fully LeanFIRE’d.

Pro to freelance seems like the ability to “turn down” the spigot when you need a break from work or maybe want to work part-time (particularly attractive to me as someone who feels a little burnt out). And maybe there’s opportunity to build a business one day if able to productize the freelance offering or bring others onboard as employees.

Cons to freelance are obviously much higher risk in the form of shouldering costs previously borne by employer (SS taxes, healthcare, etc.) and the chance of unexpected zero/low earnings if the marketing side of things doesn’t work out.

If there are any stories from folks who did something similar and you’re willing to share, I’d love to hear how you got started, anything you wish you’d known, and whether you’re glad you went freelance (or feel FTE would have been better).

Thank you for the inspiration and guidance!

10 Comments
2024/10/30
15:23 UTC

0

Amount needed to fire in india

Current rental income - 9 lakhs per year in India from residential housing

Current liquid cash - 1 crore 25 lakhs in fds

Current age -43

Kids grade - 4th grade in us. Single kid

Assets - Hold 7 residential apartments worth around 3.5 crores

Hold 1 crore residential house

Total real estate 5 crores

I think I can survive with 1 lakh income per month in India as I have a moderate lifestyle in 2024

Can someone tell their opinion?

No other financial dependencies for parents

2 Comments
2024/10/30
02:42 UTC

342

The 4% Rule Applied to Real Numbers from 1990-2023, with and without guardrails

For one of our blog articles, Is the 4% Rule Obsolete, I went through the past 33 years and calculated how the 4% rule would have performed with real inflation numbers and stock market returns. I decided to post my calculation results here because I found them really interesting and they paint a picture of what the 4% rule with/without guardrails actually looked liked. 

It's also because Bengen's original 1994 study on the 4% rule obviously couldn't cover the more recent years, so I was curious how it would look if we continued his calculations up until 2023.

If a theoretical 60 year old retired with $1 million fully invested in the S&P 500 in 1990 and then withdrew 4% every year, adjusted for that year's actual inflation, what would their performance actually look like?

4% Rule

Year of RetirementStock Market ReturnsInflationNest Egg afr WithdrawalNest Egg at Year EndWithdrawal Amount (real inflation-adjusted)
1990-3.06%6.10%$960,000$930,624$40,000
199130.23%3.10%$889,384$1,158,244$41,240
19927.49%2.90%$1,115,809$1,199,383$42,435
19939.97%2.70%$1,155,803$1,271,036$43,580
19941.33%2.70%$1,226,270$1,242,579$44,756
199537.20%2.50%$1,196,705$1,641,879$45,874
199622.68%3.30%$1,594,492$1,956,122$47,387
199733.10%1.70%$1,907,930$2,539,454$48,192
199828.34%1.60%$2,490,491$3,196,296$48,963
199920.89%2.70%$3,146,011$3,803,212$50,285
2000-9.03%3.40%$3,751,218$3,412,483$51,994
2001-11.85%1.60%$3,359,658$2,961,538$52,825
2002-21.97%2.40%$2,907,446$2,268,680$54,092
200328.36%1.90%$2,213,561$2,841,326$55,119
200410.74%3.30%$2,784,389$3,083,432$56,937
20054.83%3.40%$3,024,560$3,170,646$58,872
200615.61%2.50%$3,110,303$3,595,821$60,343
20075.48%4.10%$3,533,004$3,726,612$62,817
2008-36.55%0.10%$3,663,733$2,324,638$62,879
200925.94%2.70%$2,260,062$2,846,322$64,576
201014.82%1.50%$2,780,778$3,192,889$65,544
20112.10%3.00%$3,125,379$3,191,011$67,510
201215.89%1.70%$3,122,354$3,618,496$68,657
201332.15%1.50%$3,548,810$4,689,752$69,686
201413.52%0.80%$4,619,509$5,244,066$70,243
20151.38%0.70%$5,173,332$5,244,723$70,734
201611.77%2.10%$5,172,504$5,781,307$72,219
201721.61%2.10%$5,707,572$6,940,978$73,735
2018-4.23%1.90%$6,865,843$6,575,417$75,135
201931.21%2.30%$6,498,554$8,526,752$76,863
202018.02%1.40%$8,448,808$9,971,283$77,944
202128.47%7.00%$9,887,883$12,702,963$83,400
2022-18.04%6.50%$12,614,142$10,338,550$88,821
202326.06%3.40%$10,246,710$12,917,002$91,840

^The bolded rows demonstrate consecutive years where the stock market's negative returns caused a dramatic set-back to our nest egg that took multiple years to recover.

I was pretty amazed after that to see that in 2023, our theoretical retiree who is now 93 will have $12 million dollars that they have not spent. Keep in mind, this experiment did not take pensions, social security, annuities, anything like that into account. With that in mind, I ran this experiment again but this time with guardrails in place:

4% Rule With Guardrails -

<$950k: 3% withdrawals 

$950k-1.5M: 4% withdrawals

$1.5M-2M: 5% withdrawals

$2M-3M: 6% withdrawals

$3M-4M: 7% withdrawals

$5M-6M: 8% withdrawals

Year of RetirementStock Market ReturnsInflationNest Egg afr WithdrawalNest Egg at Year EndWithdrawal Amount (real inflation-adjusted)
1990-3.06%6.10%$960,000$930,624$40,000
199130.23%3.10%$902,706$1,175,594$27,918 (3%)
19927.49%2.90%$1,128,571$1,213,100$47,023 (4%)
19939.97%2.70%$1,164,808$1,280,939$48,292
19941.33%2.70%$1,231,344$1,247,720$49,595
199537.20%2.50%$1,196,886$1,642,127$50,834
199622.68%3.30%$1,542,021$1,891,751$82,106 (5%)
199733.10%1.70%$1,808,250$2,406,780$83,501
199828.34%1.60%$2,262,374$2,903,530$144,406 (6%)
199920.89%2.70%$2,720,135$3,288,371$183,395
2000-9.03%3.40%$3,098,741$2,818,924$189,630
2001-11.85%1.60%$2,626,260$2,315,048$192,664
2002-21.97%2.40%$2,117,761$1,652,488$82,624 (5%)
200328.36%1.90%$1,569,864$2,015,077$120,904 (6%)
200410.74%3.30%$1,894,173$2,097,607$124,893
20054.83%3.40%$1,972,714$2,067,996$129,139
200615.61%2.50%$1,938,857$2,241,512$132,367
20075.48%4.10%$2,109,145$2,224,726$137,794
2008-36.55%0.10%$2,086,932$1,324,158$52,966 (4%)
200925.94%2.70%$1,271,192$1,600,939$80,046 (5%)
201014.82%1.50%$1,520,893$1,746,289$81,246
20112.10%3.00%$1,665,043$1,700,008$83,683
201215.89%1.70%$1,616,325$1,873,159$85,105
201332.15%1.50%$1,788,054$2,362,913$141,774 (6%)
201415.89%0.80%$2,221,139$2,521,436$142,908
201532.15%0.70%$2,378,528$2,411,351$143,908
201613.52%2.10%$2,267,443$2,534,321$146,930
201721.61%2.10%$2,387,391$2,903,306$150,015
2018-4.23%1.90%$2,753,291$2,636,826$152,865
201931.21%2.30%$2,483,961$3,259,205$228,144 (7%)
202018.02%1.40%$3,031,061$3,577,258$231,338
202128.47%7.00%$3,345,920$4,298,503$343,880 (8%)
2022-18.04%6.50%$3,954,623$3,241,209$226,884 (7%)
202326.06%3.40%$3,014,325$3,799,858$234,598

Here we can see that a much more reasonable $3 million in nest egg is left at 93, which is a good amount to donate to charities and leave for your offspring. The guardrail method is much better for adapting to the market, but it comes at the expense of having a predictable income.

As we can see from the amount withdrawn each year, the difference between the highest withdraws ($343,880) is more than 10x the lowest withdraw ($27,918). With a difference this massive, it can be really difficult to make long-term plans, not to mention the tax you'll have to pay on your withdraws, if you're withdrawing this much in a single year.

The guardrail calculations also don't take pensions, social security, or annuities into account.

So what does this all mean?

I guess most clearly: oh my god the stock market returns over the last 33 years has been absolutely insane. A 60yo person retiring in 1990 did NOT need $1 million dollars invested. The second thing is that while the guardrail method is better for adapting to the market, it's also very very volatile so it might not be the best way to go.

Idk, maybe you're fine with the idea of being 93 and still having $12.9 million dollars unspent in your account? I was just kind of shocked the number was so high.

TL;DR

I calculated the 4% rule for the last 33 years and I was shocked to find that someone with a million dollars invested in the S&P 500 will have $12.9 million in their nest egg in 2023. I ran the numbers again with the guardrail method and found that while the final nest egg was more reasonable -- $3.8 million -- it was still a little ridiculous because at the highest our imaginary retiree will be withdrawing $343,880 and at the lowest they'll be withdrawing $27,918.

[Edit: Just wanted to address some of the more common questions from the comments]

1. This won't work if we retired in 1999 or 2007! I already answered this in a comment but I'll put it here too.

2000: withdraw $40,000 -- nest egg $869,700 by year's end

2001: withdraw $40,640 -- nest egg $726,000 by year's end

2002: withdraw $41,615.36 -- nest egg $524,882 by year's end

Assuming you don't do anything to decrease your SWR your total nest egg gets cut in half, which is horrifying. And if we continue to 2010 this is what happens -

2008: withdraw $49,685.30 -- nest egg $352,029 by year's end

2009: withdraw $51,026.81 -- nest egg $380,771 by year's end

2010: withdraw $51,792.21-- nest egg $378,613 by year's end

By 2010, our real withdraw rate has increased to 13.78% of the nest egg due to inflation + negative stock market returns. Even though we have great returns after 2008, the nest egg will likely be empty by 2023 (not 100% sure, but this is likely the case).

If we want the nest egg to survive until 2023, we need to recalculate and lower the SWR to 4% again. AKA cutting down to $15,144 annual withdraw... which is very low. It would have been even better if we recalibrated to 4% in 2002, instead of waiting until 2010, but at this point, only a drastic reduction in expenses could save things.

**please keep in mind that these calculations were done hastily, so there's a possibility of error.

2. The 4% rule has been revised to the 4.7% rule at some point by Bengen!

I didn't mention it here because I worried the post would be too long and it's already in the original article (read here if you're interested!) but suffice to say, there are heaps of criticism against the 4% rule over the years. Some say it's too conservative (Bengen himself) others say it's too reckless (someone linked videos from Ben Felix, who recommends 2.7%).

The point is that you really gotta use your own judgement here. No one can predict the future so all we can do is make some broad guesses. I adjusted the withdraw amount by inflation because that's what Bengen did for his original study but I personally find that approach way too inflexible.

What would I actually recommend? Well, other than deliberately retiring into a bull market, you can:

  • Employ the guardrail method, which is where you revise your SWR depending on how much you have in your nest egg (so you don't spend too little)
  • Recalculate your 4% withdraw according to your actual nest egg every couple of years and ESPECIALLY if you're in midst of a multi-year period of negative returns (to you don't spend too much)
  • Do you best to get a clear picture of non-stock market retirement income. Bengen did his original study with various stock/bond splits and bonds would go a long way to balancing out volatility. This also extends to social security, pensions, annuities, potential rental income, even income from hobbies you enjoy. I did not account for these in my calculations because it's too variable but that doesn't mean they don't matter!
107 Comments
2024/10/30
02:18 UTC

26

FIRE number vs. general strategy?

34F in a field/area that won’t likely ever be a high earner (social/medical work; current pay 55K). I have not figured out my fire number yet and feel really overwhelmed by the prospect. I don’t know if having a looming number at my age and stage would be motivating or stifling.

No debt. Max out Roth IRA, contribute to 401K employer match, maintain a healthy savings with my bank at a 5% interest rate. I use a bunch of silly apps to get between $5-50 gift cards for low effort. Those don’t move the needle much but “free” money feels good.

My net worth is about 100K, 80% being in retirement funds, 20% in savings.

Do I really need to know my fire number now? I am married and we keep separate finances. We do pay mortgage to the house and all our shared expenses are paid based on our income. He is the higher earner, but in calculating my own FIRE, I am essentially pretending I am single with access only to my finances. We will blend them later on in retirement.

Is this a bad strategy? He and I have similar approaches to money. Neither of us are big spenders but once in a while splurge on something we want.

I guess:

  1. Should I really calculate a fire number now or is just sticking with my general investment plan fine?
  2. Would it be best to continue in my path of pretending my finances and his are completely separate or do we need to really sit down and talk all this out? I want to be able to fire with or without him. He plans to work until 60. I want to retire in my 50s.
19 Comments
2024/10/29
04:50 UTC

5

Weekly LeanFIRE Discussion

What have you been working on this week? Please use this thread to discuss any progress, setbacks, quick questions or just plain old rants to the community.

9 Comments
2024/10/29
04:30 UTC

39

Retire early at 40 while spouse works?

I'm 40 and make about $125,000 and I'm considering transitioning to being a SAHD to my two young kids (1 and 3). My wife is 38 and a teacher making $76,000. She's 15.5 years away from retirement at which point she'll get a pension of about $51,000/year using today's dollars (60% of her highest 2 years income). The pension would starting paying immediately at retirement with 30 years of service (age 53) and run until her death. She would also be eligible to get medical coverage for the entire family in retirement up until she (or myself) hit Medicare age for about $1,000 per month (based on costs for 2024 for current retirees). The healthcare isn't cheap but probably better than we could get at that age on the ACA market. I would get about $2,000 per month at full retirement age from SS if I didn't work again (assuming they don't kill SS) and my wife would likely get around the same or slightly more (her school district does pay into SS so my understanding is that she will not face a Windfall Elimination Penalty (WEP)) when she hits 67.

Being that my wife's job is as a teacher, it is also quite secure which does reduce the risk quite a bit. She's also fully on board with the plan if we can make the numbers work. With her future pension that would start paying out at a fairly young age (53, I'd be 56) plus the access to somewhat subsidized healthcare, it just makes too much sense for her to not continue working until that point and again she's totally cool with the plan assuming the finances work. Our assets/debts are below:

Assets:

  • 401k: $967,000

  • Roth IRAs: $423,000

  • HSA: $85,400

  • Home Equity: $214,000 (Home worth about $400k in MCOL area)

  • Cash: $260,000 (partially a new car fund, partially emergency fund all in a HYSA and t-bills earning about 4.2ish%) -

  • Kid 1(1 year old) 529: $9,300

  • Kid 2 (3 years old) 529: $25,000

  • Car 1 (2022, 20k miles, fully paid off): worth about $30,000

  • Car 2 (2009, 133k miles, fully paid off): pretty much worthless but runs well. Will need to replace at some point and will probably pay cash for a 30-45k new car.

Debts:

  • Mortgage: $186,000 left at 2.5% (15 year, 11 years left) - $1650/month with about $6.5k/year in property tax and home insurance paid separately once per year.

Net worth: Around 1.9 million

Our only debt is the mortgage and I could theoretically pay that off today if I sold my T-bills but won't since it's at 2.5%. The newer car should last us a long time and if I do retire, I imagine we could get by mostly with 1 car and use the older one sparingly and keep it running as long as possible. We're pretty frugal which is how we've managed to save as much as we have at this point relative to our income. I haven't run the numbers exactly, but I think we could probably get by on just my wife's salary and not touch any investments so those should only grow as we approach retirement. I'm hoping that our after tax cash reserve of about $260k can supplement any shortfalls of living on just my wife's salary for the next 15 years. If we manage to leave the retirement accounts (excluding HSA) untouched and don't add anything to them, they would be at around $2.9 million using a nominal rate of growth of 5% (which I think is somewhat conservative) when she retires. We can at the very least withdraw contributions to the ROTH accounts from 56-59.5 and after that, we can supplement the pension with what should hopefully be a sizeable retirement account balance.

The biggest hurdle in my mind is the psychological side of things. I've always been a saver with the mindset that it would afford me the option at some point to retire early and I've always valued quality time with my wife and others over "stuff" but now with kids, I feel guilty actually considering this. I feel like I'm supposed to just keep grinding so that I can give my kids as good of a life as possible, which sometimes might include buying them expensive stuff or experiences and of course college. Also not sure how to fully project kid expenses. They've been pretty reasonable aside from daycare which would go away but not sure about what to expect as they get a bit older. Does it get more/less expensive (before vs. after daycare)? We spend about 20k/year on daycare which will go away at pre-k age or when I FIRE. It's also hard to ever feel like you've hit a point where you're set and can actually pull the trigger on early retirement. Has anyone else faced a similar situation and/or pulled the trigger?

70 Comments
2024/10/28
19:48 UTC

48

1-2 year covid sabbatical turned to 3. Can I lean fire?

Honestly, I’m not sure if this is the right forum for post but ultimately I guess looking for anyone in similar situation.

41m. 650k taxable brokerage, 20k cash. Own nothing, no debts, no kids, no pets ect.

Lost job/career with only company I ever worked for (various counties/locations over 15 years post bachelors) during covid. As I was approaching the big 40, decided to use the opportunity to visit family (lived overseas much of working life), and continue my love of travel extensively. Always assumed I’d go back to previous company, however upon return (at a new location) I realised I don’t have it anymore, not in my heart or mental health, so after a month I respectfully resigned and continued my travels.

Spent more frivolously first 9months cash from property sale. However tighten the belt when I began withdrawing from brokerage paying myself $2k a month and recently GF has been contributing 1500. So have whittled spend down to 3500 more or less a month.

Clearly wasn‘t enough for months of European travel over summer so we cut Europe a bit short and moved to SE Asia for now. I know I can make it work staying in LCOL like Colombia, Thailand ect

But after 54 countries and 3+ years on road I am growing tired and slowly suffering from day-to-day boredom. Too many hours of screen time a day. Traveling forever is great when you have no budget, but being on a strict budget reduces activities and leaves you with lots of downtime.

A big part of me looks at normal folks w a bit of envy, grass is always greener?

But as middle aged white guy with no skills or abilities, no real chance of finding rewarding work/new career.

Sooo, financially do you think can I make a normal middle class life work, lean as it may be? Or do I need suck it up and go find a grocery store job or something?

Thanks for any and all advice.

56 Comments
2024/10/28
03:03 UTC

11

Does LeanFire qualify for Medicaid?

For what it's worth I'm in Ohio. Right now as a 40m I have 500k in mutual funds. Lets say half were invested by me and half were gains. If I were to leanfire right now would my healthcare be subsidized by Medicaid?

33 Comments
2024/10/28
00:48 UTC

15

How much physical cash on hand?

How much physical cash do you keep on hand. I would rather have my emergency cash in a high yield savings account but I am worried I will not be able to get to it if there is an emergency situation. Am I just a conspiracy nut worried about EMP, banking collapse etc... for no reason?

66 Comments
2024/10/27
22:26 UTC

14

Where to park my 401k rollover to IRA?

This is a follow up question to my original folks over at FIRE and they have helped me tremendously with a plan. I realized this place is probably a better subreddit for my situation. Here’s my original post and my question will be below it.

Early 401k withdrawal - best option?

First, information about myself. I’m 46 years old. Worked with the same employer for the last 24 years. I make 80k annually. Funded a non matching 401k through my employer for the last few years and currently sitting at 200k balance. Just got the news today that my position is being eliminated (being outsourced to India) and my last day will be the end of February 2025. Employer offered $5k retention bonus plus 12 weeks severance pay ($17k). A few decisions that I have already made is that I will not be seeking new employment. My plan is to move to the Philippines (I’m dual citizen) and take care of my mom as she is aging and lives alone. My plan is to live off of my 401k until I’m 62 (15 years from now) and become eligible for social security, which should be around $2k monthly. This is plenty in the Philippines and will put me above middle class. My question is what is the best strategy when it comes to living off my 200k 401k early withdrawal. I understand I will face a 10% penalty and will have to pay 22% tax. When I calculate this, it should leave me with around $140k. My plan was to put this in a HYSA and I should net around $5k a year. If I take the $140k, divide that by 15 years / 12 months, that would give me around $777 a month plus the $416 ($5k/12). That is an about $1,193 a month, which would be plenty to live on in the Philippines since I won’t be paying rent. Would this be the best option given the fact I no longer plan to work? Am I missing anything else? Thanks!

Got some amazing answers and learned I should rollover my 401k to an IRA and do the 72t option instead. I already use Schwab so plan to roll it over there. Since majority of the balance will remain in there for years and only withdrawing about 12k a year, is it best to place it in SWTSX?

5 Comments
2024/10/27
16:06 UTC

55

The birthday song. Finally the first real step.

“Happy half birthday to me

I’m 59.5

I can pull from 401k at no penalty

and the IRAs too”

Now to pay off the car and get Spring work bonus and stock before I pull the ripcord. Just gotta hang on until May...and hope the ACA and the subsidies still exist.

8 Comments
2024/10/26
19:11 UTC

0

Can we lean FIRE?

41(M) and 39(F), no kids. Can we lean FIRE?

721K - Taxable brokerage

300K - Roth IRA

460K - Rollover IRA

71K - 401(k)

20K - Cash

Monthly expenses are $3800 (which factors in healthcare from ACA). Own house and cars, no debt.

Didn't want to post at length at first to make it quick and easy to read.

22 Comments
2024/10/26
13:04 UTC

18

How many different financial institutions do you use?

I have a CC and HYSA with Capital One, my personal checking and savings with Citizens Bank, and a business checking and savings with a credit union. I have a small account (<$700 ) through Robinhood that is about 70% individual stocks with the rest in S&P 500.

When I open a 401k and a Roth IRA in the next week or so, should I open it with one of these that I already have or choose a different one?

13 Comments
2024/10/25
19:32 UTC

96

2025 ACA prices are live on Healthcare.gov for those who use the ACA or are curious about the state of FIRE health insurance.

Note: This is an update to a popular post from last year on some of the FI subs. There is always a good amount of commentary over the function of the ACA and the morality of subsidies for FIRE'd folks. While I am fine with having those discussions, people might just want to read the comments made last year as nothing has changed since then. I will put links to my 2024 posts below for anyone that wants to explore those comments for background.

Anyone can now see the 2025 prices and plans in their area with some anonymous data (age/zip/income/etc) in about three minutes at https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/#/. If you have a local state-run exchange, then you'll be redirected. State exchanges all update on their own schedule, so 2025 prices may or may not be live.

Personally, we got lucky again this year in that our awesome luxury HMO plan is still the benchmark plan for our market, so we don't need to even consider jumping insurers and our premiums will continue to be $0.

For those who may not be familiar with the ACA, below is an actual real-world example of what being leanFIRE'd or controlling your MAGI can do to minimize healthcare costs in early retirement. The prices below are for a married couple with an average age of 50 and with MAGI under 150% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL), which qualifies us for the maximum possible amount of ACA subsidies, both for premiums and non-premium cost items.

Keep in mind that the premiums below would be much higher for a couple if they were in their 60s rather than in their 40s/50s like us. Tobacco users can expect to pay up to 50% additional premium on top of the age-rating. I just goosed our application to change us into 64 year-olds and the premium rose to $29.493. If we were both tobacco users, then the premium would rise further to $44,156.

This year I have also included the policy options we would likely take if we were either eligible only for premium subsides and not also cost-sharing reductions, as well as the plan we would likely take if we were ineligible for any subsidies at all. People who are over 200% FPL should almost never take Silver plans due to the way states have elected to deal with the loss of federal funding for the cost-sharing reduction subsidy system, so while I have provided the full market price of our Silver plan, please note that almost nobody would want to ever buy that plan at that price as better Bronze and Gold options are likely available.


Our 2025 Silver plan with subsidies and cost-sharing reductions (based purely on MAGI):

  • $0 in annual premium
  • $0/$0 deductible (individual/family)
  • $5 PCP (first two sick visits free, preventative visits always free)
  • $5 specialist
  • $5 urgent care
  • $0/$45 tier1/tier2 scripts
  • 20% ER ($0 if hospitalized)
  • $1,800/$3,600 MaxOOP (individual/family)

Our 2025 Silver plan without subsidies and cost-sharing reductions (full market price):

  • $17,689 in annual premium
  • $5,900/$11,800 deductible (individual/family)
  • $25 PCP (preventative visits always free)
  • $35 specialist
  • $35 urgent care
  • $15/$90 tier1/tier2 scripts
  • 50% ER ($0 if hospitalized)
  • $9,000/$18,000 MaxOOP (individual/family)

The 2025 Gold plan we could pick if our MAGI was just above 200% FPL (no meaningful CSRs):

  • $616 in annual premium
  • $1,100/$2,200 deductible (individual/family)
  • $40 PCP (first two sick visits free, preventative visits always free)
  • $65 specialist
  • $65 urgent care
  • $15/$55 tier1/tier2 scripts
  • $750 ER, after deductible ($1,100 if hospitalized)
  • $8,900/$17,800 MaxOOP (individual/family)

The 2025 HSA-compatible Bronze plan we would pick if we qualified for zero subsidies/CSRs (MAGI above 400% FPL starting in 2026)

  • $14,102 in annual premium
  • $7,500/$15,000 deductible (individual/family)
  • No charge for any services after deductible/MaxOOP is met
  • $7,500/$15,000 MaxOOP (individual/family)

Previous ACA posts for those who want to review the comments, which are often quite informative:

42 Comments
2024/10/25
17:15 UTC

92

Being able to retire in a cheaper country gives me a sense of security and confidence

I get that I might be a bit late to the FIRE thing, especially since my salary isn’t great. But then I realized I don’t have to retire here. I can go back to my home country, where my money stretches further. I’m thinking my wife and I could travel for six months and then spend the other six months back home to save up for the next trip. It feels like a practical way to make it work as my wife and I wants to spend our early retirement with traveling.

28 Comments
2024/10/23
02:16 UTC

19

Looking for some general advice

28M, just moved across the country for my wife's grad school. We have a 6-month-old and want 2 more kids at some point. We've always tried to prioritize savings and typically have been able to save 30-40% of our income. Right now we're making about 4800/mo. Net wealth at the moment is around 110K. I'd like to retire once we hit 600K. My wife would like to continue working FT until 65, if not longer. We own a 12-year-old car that seems to be doing fine right now, but reasonable to assume that it's in the last 2-5 years of its life. We're renting a fairly cheap apartment and don't plan to buy for the next 5 years at least.

I'm finding that it was easier to be an aggressive saver in my early 20s compared to now. I'm losing that burning, uncompromising idealism that I used to have, and increasingly I feel like my life would be better with certain creature comforts. I have a mental list of about $2500 in purchases that are totally gratuitous and not in our current budget but that I think would help us settle in to our new place and improve the quality of our lives. Upgrade our bed, get a refurbished couch, better speakers for the living room, etc.

I haven't pulled the trigger on any of these things for two reasons: 1) Lifestyle creep, 2) I'm conscious of the fact that we're going to have to replace our car at some point, plus other future expenses as our family grows. On the other hand, all of these items would last us a long time, and the one-time cost wouldn't have a grave impact on my long-term financial goals. Maybe I just need to own the fact that as I get older, my needs are going to be different and it's okay to adjust my perspective on spending and saving.

What do you think? Am I justified in spending the money, or am I straying too far from my values as someone who generally wants to be happy with less?

13 Comments
2024/10/22
15:07 UTC

2

Do you count real estate into your assets?

Place you live in? Will you stay there? Will you move? Will you keep it? Will you rent it out? If you intend to rent some real estate out and not sell it, do you count it towards your assets, or maybe you count rental income minus upkeep towards your monthly income?

26 Comments
2024/10/22
14:12 UTC

25

Weekly LeanFIRE Discussion

What have you been working on this week? Please use this thread to discuss any progress, setbacks, quick questions or just plain old rants to the community.

35 Comments
2024/10/22
04:30 UTC

13

Where is your spending at? Where do you want it to be through your retirement?

As a % of gross income, net, raw terms, however you wish to specify.

16 Comments
2024/10/22
02:44 UTC

0

26M, over $200K in net worth [Journey to FIRE] - curious to hear your thoughts?

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to share this financial achievement towards my journey to FI/RE:

Just turned 26 and I currently have a net worth slightly over $200,000 CAD. Specifically, I have $208,000 CAD or approximately $150,000 USD. Since Imgur links always show a 404 error for me, here's a couple of links for proof: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Adulting/comments/1g7cf5l/update_to_my_prior_victory_post_gotten_to_over/

https://www.reddit.com/r/fican/comments/1g7cjii/update_to_my_previous_post_second_top_post_on/

My current job is in the healthcare field, paying around $60 CAD/hour, or approximately $44 USD/hour, with overtime paid after 8 hours/day or 40 hours/week. Benefits aren't much to speak of except for 3 weeks paid vacation along with most statutory holidays paid, with a five-figure signing bonus - it took many years of postsecondary education to get here so a long grind.

For my investments, I primarily invest in XEQT and TEC ETFs. I haven't made as much gains as I could have as I admittedly haven't bought shares as low as I could have, but that's still a valuable lesson learned: one can't time the market perfectly. I'm still happy with the ~12% investment gains I've made this year, since that still significantly beats out inflation.

My ultimate financial goal is to achieve FIRE by 40, with at least $1,000,0000 in investments and hopefully some property paid off and to call my own!

2 Comments
2024/10/20
18:01 UTC

9

401k to IRA Rollover - which brokerage?

I'm planning to roll over my Voya 401k to an IRA since I've reached my 2024 contribution limit. I currently have taxable & HYSA accounts with Vanguard, Charles Schwab, and Wealthfront. Which of these would be the best choice for the rollover, considering I'll be traveling and won't have a permanent address from late November 2024?"

My taxable accounts are all in VTI index fund and I'll be rolling over to VTI as well.

18 Comments
2024/10/19
00:44 UTC

38

Discounted insurance on my cheap retirement

I am planning to retire early in 3 months with $315,000, half in a 401k and the other half in a a personal Vanguard account. I racked up almost all of this money in the last 3 years of working so not a lot of it is taxable upon selling.

I only need $12,000 a year to pay all of my bills as my house is paid off, no children, live alone, no debt. I'm figuring in a steep discount from ACA, which I'm not sure I will qualify for. Am I retiring on too little to qualify for the ACA discount? I can convert enough of my 401k to probably qualify for a few years, but what about long term?

Just in case any of this information is relevant; I'm 39 years old, live in a very low cost of living area in Illinois, and I'm currently living on just $930 a month (insurance through my employer at no cost to me)

44 Comments
2024/10/18
17:47 UTC

6

Next steps advice

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on next steps for myself and my journey.

Current situation

2 x 200k properties in personal name 1 paid off 1 has mortgage of 35k

2 x 200k properties in Ltd company 1 paid off 1 has mortgage of 120k

Stocks and shares isa 75k

Db pension 6k p/a

Savings 20k

Age 41

Main questions are:

Do I sell these properties and put the money into pension or isa?

Do I move properties all into the Ltd company?

My goal is to become a millionaire in new worth by the time I’m 50. Do you think this is possible?

4 Comments
2024/10/18
09:42 UTC

269

Reached 200k today, a reflection

Just incredibly proud to have reached this milestone so wanted to share that this community is what motivated to get here.

Grew up with extreme financial instability in my family. High earners but declared bankruptcy twice.. just not good at managing money at all so I wasn’t taught. This community taught me.

Now I have 200k at age 30 today, and it feels like it’s really started to shift things for me. More than just the money, it’s me finally breaking the cycle from my family and feeling like I have options.

30 Comments
2024/10/16
13:10 UTC

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