I'm 31 and have 100k, I planned a FIRE in Russia or Thailand at least since I'm 26. I decide to write (again) here so at least you will maybe see that you aren't the only struggling.

To reach the minimal target of 150k, I moved to Australia in WHV to get job and accelerate the cash machine over 2 years.

But it since a month and still no job captain... But expense, and expense ! The van I live in only costed me 3500 aud (2000 euro) but with the insurance, RAC, new battery, Rego, petrol I'm close to 3000 euro.

But not only that... The travel and visa stuff cost me a total about 1000 euro (without return flight).

And the hostel for about 300 euro...

So, this project is in fact, my biggest mistake ever made. If I do not find a job in next months I may loss even more 🥶

There are also good side... On the other edge of the prisma, I improved well my English, and I like camping sooo much. I can also resell the van for about the price I bought for so it's not a total loss... If of course the van survive the journey.

I hope one day on this thread I will not have to write about struggling or about work, but about living my life where I want with a minimalistic lifestyle, allowed by having build year after year my small rent.

What's everyone's poverty fire number? Or the lowest FIRE number and your story behind it.

I want to FIRE asap because I have severe ADHD/depression/anxiety (I suspect some form of autism too) and life is just very difficult for me.

FIRE is keeping my hope alive that perhaps there is an end to the misery.

I already live a pretty frugal and simple life. I could simplify it even more if I wanted to.

Sometimes I lose hope that it’s even feasible. Especially with the economy being the way that it is.

Any success stories here or tips on how to get there faster?

I don’t own a home and make $24/hr. No kids.

Sometimes it feels like FIRE might not be attainable…

I'm in rural NorCal, and the cost of living is relatively high - think $5+ for gallon of gas, and the closest Costco, Walmart, Winco, are 2 hours drive way one. Living on husband's family property with minimal rent, so we're still saving, but can't help to think we'd reach FIRE sooner elsewhere or have a better quality of life while we pursue FIRE.

So, where have you find homeownership conducive to povertyFIRE?

TLDR Main question is who has done something similar to what I've done with the duplex / house hacking and then just any other ideas or thoughts or threads that you want to link to this would be appreciated.

So I have commented and viewed a lot of these subs and really related more with the poverty fire people as I'd seen some of them have done stuff similar to mine. I do most of the above stuff but now but still hold down a day job these are just some of the other ideas and plans that I have.

I owner occupy a rental duplex. I live in one unit and rent the other one out. They are a nice ranch side by side. My other tenants since covid has always been elderly people since I put a wheelchair ramp in the back and have a number of grab bars that make it very accessible and the fact that it's all on one level. So I feel like the market demand for elderly boomers with pensions and social security should be a fair amount It generates $1,000 a month or $12,000 a year. Your Bob income is gross revenue that the net income after deductions, expenses, etc So when all that is factored in my income would still be around the poverty fire income.

My fixed expenses with Internet, water, gas, electric, property taxes, insurance come out to about 9k so that leaves me with a nice cushion for saving and other home expenses.

I don't own a car so I have no car expenses. I walk or take the bus. I am off a good bus stop that would take me to a larger city as well as being off a bike trail.

I'm single child free by choice. I've had a vasectomy so no children in the future.

I'm in a small town with a lot of services though. The library I can walk to has a pretty progressive food bank that you can take. Bread, food, taco mac, vegetables, all kinds of stuff for free there. So I get a lot of my groceries for free. I do a lot of volunteer work at the library too and take a lot of books and DVDs etc from there that I check out and read, watch etc..

I can walk to a park. and have a bank and a small grocery store pharmacy so for other food or pills shots etc it's all close by.

Speaking of health care I would be able to get on ACA and get on a silver plan with CSR so it would cap my cost.

I have US moblie for unlimited talk and text as well as some data for about $100 a year.

I spend a lof of my free time online and have a number of used old laptops that run linux.

I felt that if I made another 5K a year or so beyond the rental income, I could do pretty well for myself. Have some trips. Buy some things. I've had a few side hustles that I've done that I've made some money on fairly consistently. Not huge money but enough that I think I could pretty much support myself with that and the rental income.

I would say I have a pretty high quality of life for a pretty low cost of living area. I want to focus my time and energy on volunteering and focusing on non-commercial activities. Any ideas suggestions or things that I am missing let me know.

32 and I can’t take life right now. Thinking of a way to fire as soon as possible. I’m contemplating living in a literal hole or on empty land, anything to avoid this rat race. Is this plan possible? Use VA for health benefits as primary health insurance for life Buy empty land with VA loan or buy a house and rent out rooms Fire at about 38

I have no desire to spend any money, go on trips or do literally anything besides eat some carrots and play video games. My favorite activity is going to the library or talking on the phone with friends. I’d rather live a miserly existence than be in this rat race any longer than I need to

PovertyFIRE

I am 31f. 5’2” Asian.

Not married. No kids.

Previous bachelors in Design which I am no longer using for work. However I did use those skills to run a business a while ago which made me decent money but all that money and the business is gone now.

Student loan debt: $13,000 PayPal Credit: $1700 Care Credit $1000

Savings: $6,000

Full-time job making $24/hr.

Usually net around $3200-$3400/month after taxes or around $38,500-ish per year.

Monthly expenses at the bare minimum are $1500 but with fun money around $2000.

If I was really good about my expenses, I could save/invest about $1000/month.

I do want to try running a business again but wanted to build more financial security via a job before even trying that.

Any business I do would mostly be to make more money to fund early retirement and possibly act as a source of income so I won’t have to dip into my nest egg in the future.

I’m still in the phase of accumulating my rainy day savings which I plan to throw into a HYSA (any suggestions here) and paying down my credit card debt at least.

The student loan debt I plan to tackle a bit more slowly. I want to prioritize investing money.

I am currently searching for a way to substantially boost my income without having to go back into debt for school.

My current job is the most I’ve ever made at a job by the way.

I also hate school and honestly, I’m not smart enough to be an engineer or do computer science etc.

I was going to attempt nursing but knowing myself I don’t think it’s something I can achieve. I’m awful at science and math and I hate people. I hate school and it was never for me. I was trying to take pre-requisites for 2 years and got nowhere.

At this rate I sort of just want to say fuck the school system. It didn’t serve me before and I’m no STEM person. It’s not gonna happen for me.

I have looked into trucking, trades and maritime work mostly. I really like working with my hands and having a clear goal to work in directly. I don’t do well with ambiguous problem solving or having to recall drugs and navigate office politics.

I’ve come to think I may be on the spectrum actually, but I digress.

Reducing living expenses while stacking as much cash as I can sounded appealing.

I have no help, so keep in mind I’m navigating this all by myself. I also would have no support to go back to school so it’s very difficult for me.

I have absolutely no friends, family or partner who will be helping me.

I’m old and don’t have the time to fuck this up again. I want a job with some sort of skill/license where I can find a job almost anywhere in the US and there will be some semblance of job security.

Any other occupation recommendations are very welcome.

I want to start working on my financial goals sooner than later.

I've been trying to run numbers and beginning to feel a bit disheartened:

$200 a month car + home/renters insurance

$300 a month food

$200 a month across all utilities

$50 a month in discretionary spending

Already combined this adds up to $750 a month or $9k per year, and I feel as though the above numbers seem like the floor/best case scenario (little money for car repairs for instance). In most cases it seemed people here are relying on Medicaid which in most states stops at 20k~. So that leaves 11k towards rent/mortgage... Perhaps I am looking in the wrong states but most places that cheap leave me concerned with regards to safety. Is there something I am missing, or is it just the reality that PovertyFire either walks a really thin line to work or requires having a paid off dwelling?

Go even a little above 20k~ income and you are suddenly paying a crazy amount for health insurance coverage...

Does povertyFIRE account for healthcare costs when you get sick or have sudden huge unplanned medical costs?

I live a pretty frugal life, with no foreseeable lifestyle creep, but the thought of getting older and more sickly is worrying. Any surgery or long term hospitalisation would automatically wipe out whatever preplanned povertyFIRE savings that I might have. How do folks here deal with medical expenditures ranging in the thousands to tens of thousands, especially if you live in a country without socialised healthcare costs?

Mes amis,

There is a good news for all that want to go to PovertyFire !

Thailand has created a nomad digital visa (for 250 euro / year !!!)

Big deal for us to FIRE are usually :

• -Visa
• -Cost of living (plane)
• -Healthcare
• -Security
• -Culture (langue)

Thailand now check ALL the boxes EXCEPT langage. Philipines was fine for Visa, Cost of living, but not realy for Healthcare and Security.

You can live there 183 days, then take a flight and come back

Here is the (indirect) source where I caught the informations. If I find in English I will update ASAP the post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOwqpJt8N68&t=51s

I don't mind working. It gives me structure, productivity, extra money, etc.

However, I immediately have an issue with being told what to do, corrected, criticized or pressured by my superiors (even when I can recognize that it's reasonable on their end).

Being frugal makes me less reliant of sources of income, thus putting the negotiation power in my hands. I can say no, talk back and/or quit when I don't need the money.

Similarly, when I don't own things, they don't need to be maintained, repaired, upgraded, stored, registered, considered, etc (consider all of the pains of owning a car). They don't get in my way.

It has little to do with principles stances on the economy, environment, consumerism, etc (although I can understand such things).

I'm frugal because I don't want to be bothered.

Can anyone else relate?

Was wondering if anyone has actually fired with 200k or less and if its doable? Including a house, would this be doable?.

Would love to hear your stories

I didn't come across the FIRE movement until about 3-4 years ago. Really wish I had sooner. I had been saving for a typical retirement say at age 62, but wasn't where I needed to be for an early retirement. I got serious and upped my savings rate significantly, but still looking at probably 50+ even for a "safe" poverty FIRE (I'm currently 45).

Maybe it's a mid-life crisis, I dunno, but I feel like I'm wasting my life away waiting for the day to come so I can follow my dream of slow traveling around the world. I feel like the younger I am, the more I would be able to do this and enjoy it. Hence my whole obsession with risk taking. I guess my personality is not risk averse anyway, but this seems like an especially good reason to take some chances.

My latest risk I think I'm willing to take is to ditch full coverage car insurance, or at the very least substantially raise my deductible. My auto insurance premium is currently about 5% of my monthly budget. The car is worth $20k roughly and paid off, so no requirement to keep full coverage. The savings may not be huge, but some actuary somewhere has determined their company can insure me + make a profit by charging the premiums they currently are charging me. So, in theory, dropping to liability only should be better for me I feel like (I keep the profit instead of them). It would be survivable even if I were to completely lose the vehicle, but I think that's unlikely.

Other risks I'm considering taking:

1. 4% SWR. I don't necessarily need my nest egg to last 30 years. 17 would get me to 62 and could start drawing Soc Sec then if needed. No kids, so not trying to leave a big inheritance for anyone.

2. Returning to work if need be. I know SOR risk is quite real, especially if I draw more than 4%. I think I'd be able to return to work if needed, but who knows what the economy would be like at the point I might need to do so. Being out of the workforce a few years too likely wouldn't help either.

3. I'd like to rent my home out while I travel. Reason for renting instead of selling is so I could have it to return to if I get tired of the nomadic life. Risky though because there are obviously a lot of horror stories of bad tenants. Still, I'm tempted to try it.

4. Inheritance - It wouldn't be anything huge, but if I knew I could count on it in addition to the assets I already have, I'd feel quite safe retiring today. There are of course medical bills and other unforseen things that could happen to eat into any possible inheritance, so definitely not guaranteed.

Of the above 4 things, I think I could survive at least 2 going wrong. If sequence of returns gets me early on, but I was able to return to gainful employment, I'd be fine. If I were to rent my house and it get trashed, but receive an inheritance in 10-15 years, I'd be fine, etc. If all 4 of those things listed above were to go wrong, that would be shitty though.

Then again, if I wait until 50 to retire to be "safe" and make sure I have plenty of money to last until age 100, but die at 55 or end up with health problems by then that keep me from doing the slow travel thing... well that's pretty shitty, too.

What are everyone's risk appetites like here? I think I am ok with most of the risks I mentioned above. Probably the big one I'm least certain about is if I'll be as happy with a frugal lifestyle at 70 as I am with it now. If my early retirement turned into a sabbatical instead, that's ok with me I think.

To put it another way, I think I'd be happy to retire once I had maybe a 75% chance of succeeding on never needing to work again, but I'd want like 99% chance of never ending up homeless haha.

Housing costs are very high and only look to be getting higher. How do you FIRE when such a big part of our expenses come from having a place to sleep at night? Does Poverty FIRE only work with nontraditional housing (think vanlife, camping, couch surfing, live-in carer, staying with family, etc.), taking a shortcut to owning a place to live (househacking, inheritance, etc.), or is there anybody who is renting?

Also curious how people think about housing in PovertyFI / LeanFI circles more generally.

Reminded I made a post 3 months ago about LATAM.
My objective has change a bit for thailand. Especially for security reason I find LATAM too unsafe (despite I will certainly will be more integrated in those society than in SEA).

I started to full ETF world, And stop stock picking (first I'm unlucky, and made bad decisions. Thanks to the public companies that ruined some of my performance)

I have arround 100K now, I base my calculation on 8% yield. But I realised that I miscalculated 3 things :

-Inflation. If I take 8% per year ( 8k ) then inflation will shrink my purshase power. So I "only" will be relient on 4K per year MAX
-Visa cost : if I go that way, I will have to pay for visa and visa run. Like 100$ per month, and will not able to rent on full year contract
-Insurrance. I based my calculation on 125$... but i'm 31... At 50 the same insurrance will cost me the double basically.

If someone here have a good idea, it's good time to share.

Personnaly I think doing that way :
-Working in Thailand ( as english teacher, or better, in IT if I can find something )
-Then I will get thai nationality after 5-7 years (time to learn thai), it will also solve visa running cost
-I could rely on public thai insurrance. But I will take at least complementary insurrance.

The main problem, even if I could "survive" on a thai salary ( about 600$ / month ), it will be not enough to fire in 5-7 years.

My brother, told me wisely that I could go to Australia or USA or whatever and try to grind some dollars, those that are missing to provide me the fire life I want. But if I'm honest, I don't enjoy living in the West and highly would prefer to live in Thailand.

If someone here have a good idea, it's good time to share your mind.

Are people primarily planning this type of living in a city, or will you be in a rural area on acreage? Will you live in a paid off home, apartment, car, camper, shed/house, or under a bridge?

Recently had a major life event, lost job last year and on a 1 year contract that's ending this September. I have lived a simple life, drive well maintained older vehicles, and have enough saved to live off $1,500 a month, for the rest of my life. I still have about 10 more years to work and save to pump that number up.

I'm really interested in this lifestyle/retirement idea and have been discussing with a buddy how we could go in together on a decent sized piece of land, and split it. Build cabins or barns on our respective adjoining land, and help each other out (veggies, fruit, deer, labor). Taxes are super cheap on raw land, and a cheaper barn home, I don't feel I'd even need to insure. We've already gone in together on tools (log splitter, trailer) and share them between us.

The other option I am entertaining, is retiring in SE Asia. I could start this tomorrow if I wanted to, that is if $1,500 a month would allow me a simple life there. The visas, and all that legal stuff is what's puzzling me when I look into this, and at the moment don't have the patience for it. Wish there was a coach that could guide me if I decided to go this route. Watching youtube videos on this, just leaves me more and more confused due to everyone having a different method/opinion.

I think I want to try PovertyFire when I get out on my own, and I know the smart thing to do is read as much as possible on it and get as prepared as I can as quickly as possible ahead of the game.

I have read Amber Storcks book and Opossum living by Dolly Freed. I feel like some of their advice does not exactly fit all people especially at all times of their life, I imagine housing, and transportation would be much harder since Opossum living was written, Amber Storck has been blessed not to have any chronic conditions or major health crises and was gifted a house. I think there advice is still useable and not worthless by any means but I am looking for further resources or advice potentially with more than a small narrow amount of options for living conditions(not having to live with parents or rely on substantial amounts of government welfare if its possible to avoid that) and a plurality of options for dealing with factors regarding living expenses if there are multiple lifestyle options. (whether that is all in one resource or strewn across multiple).

Thank you for helping me get started on this journey towards Financial Independence!

I have been a low income retiree for three years now. I could have worked longer and had more money but I was not prepared to sacrifice my time for more money.

I am very good at being frugal and making due but what do you do for the large purchases? Do you save up by cutting your budget even more? What do you cut?

I will have to replace my car in a few years and I am starting to plan for that. I don't want to move to somewhere walkable. Where I live has poor public transit and it is not very walkable.

How do you plan for large expected expenses?

21 and have 90k in assets currently, 0 debt. 80k sp500 and 10k paid off car. I originally thought to pursue regular fire but I hate working to much to wait until age 40+. I’m currently making 60k and have annual expenses of ~20k.

I would buy land and/or a house in a ulcol area in cash for hopefully ~150k. From there I need about 400k to swr 14,000 a year at 3.5%. To hit that goal it will likely take 10-15 years. Obviously depending heavily on equity valuations. I will receive inheritance sometime between age 30-50 of 100k up to a million depending on how much my parents spend. Not going to count that until I actually get it. Offgrid is essential to poverty fire as utilities and increased taxes in a city could come to Upward’s of at least 5k a year more in expenses. That would mean years more at a job I hate.

The reason I’m pursuing fire is because I’m sick of being a “wage slave”. Most everyone ik hates their job but can’t escape as they are super consumeristic. Stuck by their own doing due to a mortgage, car payment, credit card debt, and basic overspending. I’m a minimalist and don’t purchase anything I can’t do on my own. I view the modern world as almost a complete disaster on all fronts. Look at everyone’s health in America! Not good to say the least. I believe hunter gatherers lived much happier lives than the average person alive in 2024.

Sure there is struggle in a self sufficient life but it’s much more rewarding than getting paid for the hour. I hunt 75% of the meat I eat every year and process it myself. That meat alone is worth upwards of 4k in value but costs me nothing except my $20 hunting license. I believe self reliance is the essence on fire. Freedom in the USA and most countries on earth is only possible if you can actually support yourself without a job. Imo if collecting rainwater is illegal we don’t live in any sort of a “free” country. I would think many in this sub resonate with my point of view on society.

I came across this book in 2019. "How to live without a job and with (almost) no money." Written by Dolly Freed in the early 70s, who was a young woman living with her dad in a paid for, $6000 house on a half acre. They live on an equivalent of about $5,500 a year in today's money. How they do it:

-Grow, hunt, scavenge almost all their own food - raise rabbits in the cellar, fish almost every day (with no license) hunt squirrel and pheasant, grow lots of vegetables, trade with neighbors, brew all their own alcohol
-preserve tons of food for the winter
-buy bulk grains from the animal feed store and grind them themselves
-no insurance, no retirement, only pay yearly property taxes
-work odd jobs babysitting and doing handwork around the neighborhood
-finding things for free, DIYing all repairs, alternative/trade economies
-no car, free hobbies, no vacations. "design a life we don't need a vacation from"

Now obviously the cost of living is much higher these days even adjusted for inflation, and their way of living is extreme. I would hate to stay in one place my entire life, and I want health insurance and some security for retirement. But, this book has encouraged me to try and FIRE while also working about 30 hours a week. It's also like $4 online, I highly recommend to anyone who could use some inspiration and practical tips

How do you cope with working/accumulating?

How do you "Hold On/Cope" while accumulating?

Despite understanding FIRE inside and out, I've failed to accumulate any meaningful amount of savings because I find that with every job I try (and I've worked in MANY fields) I start off highly motivated, but after about 2 months I progressively becoming bored, then depressed, then angry, then falling into various addictions, then quitting and burning through my savings while taking a long break from employment.

There's been two instances where I've been able to hold on to a job for over a year, work long hours and quickly move up the ladder, but the same thing happens. Even if I'm making good money and the job is tolerable, the same thing happens eventually.

I've done about everything I can to minimize. I live an Early Retirement Extreme type lifestyle where I've lived on as little as $500 a month by not having a phone plan, not driving, eating excess food from a pantry I volunteered at, going on Medicaid, having cheap hobbies, renting an old place, etc.

I already eat well, workout, have friendships and relax with various forms of digital entertainment on my off time.

How do you all hold on to a job, especially when you've already established a well-rounded financial plan?

Edit to add:

I wasn't very clear with the goal of this post. I know by the 4% SWR rule I am not ready for FIRE based on my current expenses. I listed the numbers to sort of give an idea of where I am technically, which I'd estimate is 50-75% of the way to where I need to be. Not really looking for that technical analysis since I already know I'm short "by the book".

The goal of the post is to see who else out there might be sorta kinda close, and thinking of making some additional sacrifices to lower expenses, or take some chances like assuming a higher SWR than 4%, banking on an inheritance that maybe isn't 100% guaranteed, etc.

I feel pretty desperate with the methods I'm considering to get FIREd, and just wondering who else might be feeling the same and are you willing to be a little crazy to get there? Or also, do you have any easy, online ways to supplement monthly income to reduce investment withdrawals (survey sites I listed below being a perfect example of what I'm talking about, just need a few more)? Of course the final stop gap is returning to work in a few years if things don't go as planned. Talking age 50 so it wouldn't be terrible, would it if necessary? Not looking to return to a white collar career. I'd be happy mowing grass at a golf course.

First, the easy factors to consider:

Current liquid assets:

457b $86k 403b $76k HSA $15k Roth IRA $33k Crypto $40k

Total ~$250k

Other:

Home Equity ~$125k after expenses if I sold. Car and such that I probably would keep even if FIREd

My original goal was to aim for just under the 138% of FPL for a single person to be eligible for expanded Medicaid coverage. Current liquid assets even at an aggressive 4.5% SWR put me at barely over half of that. Even adding in the home equity if I were to sell it puts me at about 80% of the 138% FPL.

But, I just turned 45 and call it a mid-life crisis or whatever, I am thoroughly sick of working and want off this ride lol. At least for a little while. I sort of coast poverty fired a couple of years ago so I've just been letting the investments grow without contributing. My current income covers expenses but not much more.

I'm not ok with retiring on $250k and remaining in this house. It's more house than I need (3 bd/2 ba for a single guy), and more expense than I can manage on passive income from $250k.

I'd rather not sell the house, at least not yet in case I have a change of heart and want to return to the home I've been in for 12 years now. It should rent for enough to conservatively cover all costs and expenses via a property management company, and still give me $200 or so monthly free cash flow. That's putting quite a bit towards maintenance and capital expenses just to be safe.

I started doing surveys on Prolific and CloudResearch Connect a few months ago. Pulled in about $400 last month doing those in free time but not idea how long that is sustainable. Let's say maybe I could count on $200 from those monthly average.

Potentially though $200 from renting house and $200 from online survey taking or whatever would be $400/month. $900/month withdrawal from investments puts me at $1300/month. I could get by on that, but it would be tight and my investments aren't likely to do anything more than to hold steady and not really grow beyond cost of living increases.

Here's where I really start to sound desperate. My parents, both age 82, have a guest house at their main residence and a vacation home in an adjacent state that I'm sure they would let me live in for free. I probably wouldn't even have to pay utilities, but would likely offer to pick up something just to not feel like a total mooch. Without much in the way of housing expense, I could reduce my $900/month withdrawal from investments to $400-$500/month probably, allowing the investments to hopefully continue to grow a little to give me slightly more income in the future.

Downsides to this plan that I see are:

When mom and dad pass, I'll have to be able to pay for housing again.

This is really a leaner lifestyle than I had planned on, but every time I hear of someone who died in their 60's (a friend's dad just passed this week from cancer at 68), it lights a fire under my ass to be done with working and enjoy life.

Other potential resources:

An inheritance of mostly real estate that will be worth around $300k, assuming no long term care expenses for the parents eat into that.

Home equity of about $125k currently that could be added to investments if I sell it one day.

Could always go back to work in a few years if things weren't going well.

The parts that give me anxiety are living next door to my parents who I'm sure will expect me to spend a lot of time with them, being in the town I grew up in which is boring af, and just overall having a much leaner budget than I had planned originally. On the flip side, I would be close to help them as they get older with things they might need help with.

I'm basically split 50/50 on what to do. I know a lot of the choices are personal decisions and ultimately about who I am and what I want. However, really curious to see what most of you would do and what sacrifices you'd make to stop working? Would you live next door to your elderly parents as an adult? Would you be ok with this lean of a budget?

Also, anything I'm missing please let me know. Anything in addition to the survey sites I mentioned above to generate a little extra cash online? Even $200/month from something easy and not requiring too much commitment would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

Right now, these are places are not good to FIRE due to political reasons and being closed off. However in the long term, these places could be very good for leanfire due to declining populations and very affordable property prices outside the major cities (and they will get cheaper due to declining populations in these cities). For Russia, it is possible to buy apartments in provincial cities for around $10k and in some places you can even get them for 3K. China's population is declining and China's property market looks to be stagnant (for provincial cities, I don't think it would ever bounce back up). In Japan and Italy right now, you can buy houses in the countryside for around £500 due to population decline. I feel prices in the countryside for Russia and China will be even cheaper in the future. Does this look like a promising long term prospect for you (it really depends on politics), especially since house prices are marching upwards in the west.

Also cheaper non controversial places like Malaysia and Bosnia (Bosnia is facing a steep population decline) do exist so right now these would be a wiser choice than china or russia.

Hi.

It's no real secret that many people who go through Ch7 bankruptcy find themselves keeeping more than they thought they would.

Assets like retirement accounts and primary residences are exempt from seizure by your creditors except in the case of fraud.

That's curious because I can imagine a time in mid retirement where those might be the primary/only assets I own. Or at least where my credit limits would dwarf all other assets added together.

So what does this sub think about a plan like this, and does it constitute fraud?

Start with $700k or so, $300k in 401k, $100k ROTH, and $300k in brokerage, and $150k in credit limits. $300k in a taxable brokerage is not so much that it would last me forever.

Use the brokerage money to buy a ~$600k house with a down payment (more house than I would want normally). The other $180k or so pays the mortgage and minimums throughout the rest of this.

Quit or lose job soon after, this is your RE date. Do ROTH conversions up to a certain tax bracket from now on.

Shift all spending to credit cards, use rewards, pay all minimums for a while. Maybe like 6-7 years. Over this time, the ROTH+401k money should roughly double again since sitting untouched. It could actually be less time than that if I am underestimating how quickly credit card debt compounds, as I have never had any.

Time the complete draining of your taxable brokerage account with maxing out all the credit cards. Apply for more for as long as you can when your revolving debt is still low, maybe open some personal loans, etc.

Hit brokerage $0 and remaining credit $0, default on loans. Shift spending to ROTH withdrawals (since you now have rougly $800k in retirement accts).

Go through chapter 7 bankruptcy, stop using credit cards (for 7+ years), keep spending from the ROTH. Downsize the primary residence if you want to at this point, since it served the asset protection purpose. Live a good life.

Reduce all numbers by 30-50% if that fits better with your definition of povertyFIRE. I am probably more of a frugal LeanFIRE guy but this post seemed like a better fit for this sub.

I like Schemes. Sorry if this sounds wild or if it's just fraud.

I'm not a lawyer but the closest clause I can find is

"purchasing items on existing credit with no intention of repaying the debt (proven by showing the lack of an ability to pay at the time of purchase)"

I guess intention is important here, but that sounds very vague, especially since I imagine almost everyone who goes through bankruptcy uses debt at some point in the process knowing that paying it back is hopeless.

When is the line drawn?

I call PovertyFire LONRE- Live on Nothing Retire Early. I was forced into early retirement by a disability. It has been almost seven years since I was first approved for disability. I am a little over the poverty level as I am just a single household and my disability benefits are pretty good compared to many people. I made a professional wage for a number of years as a computer programmer. Plus I work part time being mindful to stay under the thresholds of a Trial Work Period. I am 53 and have been retired since 46.

I (36, M) with my partner (36, F) and two kids under 5, currently are on a journey towards financial independence and early retirement (FIRE). We will be moving back to India and hence our expenses will be small compared to the US/Europe. We've been diligently working towards our FIRE number of 550k USD, and currently, we're at 420k USD. However, due to recent changes in our lives, we are contemplating taking a pause before hitting our FIRE target.

Here's a snapshot of our current financial situation:

Note: Except for the funds invested in the US market, everything else is tied to India, so the move will be easy and the funds will be locally generated while we stay there.

Investments:

Indian stock market: 132k USD

US stock market: 50k USD

Apartment in India: 85k

Cash: 132k (undecided on where to invest)

Land: 18k (planning to sell and invest)

SIPs: Remaining amount.

Monthly Expense: 1800 USD

Monthly Income:

Part-time job income (combined): 1000 USD

Rent from the apartment: 240 USD

We are seeking your valuable insights on how to strategically navigate this phase. Specifically, we're looking for advice on:

Optimal investment options for the loose cash (132k USD) and proceeds from the land sale (18k).

Any suggestions on tweaking our current investment strategy.

Thoughts on balancing part-time jobs and FIRE goals.

We are open to diverse perspectives and would appreciate any advice, tips, or personal experiences you can share. Your insights will contribute significantly to our financial journey.

Thank you in advance for your time and suggestions!

The Federal Register hasn't published them yet, but the 2024 inflation adjustments to the Federal Poverty Line are out. Good to see that they have come down a lot from the +7%-8% range last year, but still quite a bit higher than some might like. Important number for anyone using or planning on using FPL-gated programs like the ACA, Expansion/Children's Medicaid, CHIP, NSLP, FAFSA, and so forth.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines/prior-hhs-poverty-guidelines-federal-register-references