Reminded I made a post 3 months ago about LATAM.
My objective has change a bit for thailand. Especially for security reason I find LATAM too unsafe (despite I will certainly will be more integrated in those society than in SEA).

I started to full ETF world, And stop stock picking (first I'm unlucky, and made bad decisions. Thanks to the public companies that ruined some of my performance)

I have arround 100K now, I base my calculation on 8% yield. But I realised that I miscalculated 3 things :

-Inflation. If I take 8% per year ( 8k ) then inflation will shrink my purshase power. So I "only" will be relient on 4K per year MAX
-Visa cost : if I go that way, I will have to pay for visa and visa run. Like 100$ per month, and will not able to rent on full year contract
-Insurrance. I based my calculation on 125$... but i'm 31... At 50 the same insurrance will cost me the double basically.

If someone here have a good idea, it's good time to share.

Personnaly I think doing that way :
-Working in Thailand ( as english teacher, or better, in IT if I can find something )
-Then I will get thai nationality after 5-7 years (time to learn thai), it will also solve visa running cost
-I could rely on public thai insurrance. But I will take at least complementary insurrance.

The main problem, even if I could "survive" on a thai salary ( about 600$ / month ), it will be not enough to fire in 5-7 years.

My brother, told me wisely that I could go to Australia or USA or whatever and try to grind some dollars, those that are missing to provide me the fire life I want. But if I'm honest, I don't enjoy living in the West and highly would prefer to live in Thailand.

If someone here have a good idea, it's good time to share your mind.

Are people primarily planning this type of living in a city, or will you be in a rural area on acreage? Will you live in a paid off home, apartment, car, camper, shed/house, or under a bridge?

Recently had a major life event, lost job last year and on a 1 year contract that's ending this September. I have lived a simple life, drive well maintained older vehicles, and have enough saved to live off $1,500 a month, for the rest of my life. I still have about 10 more years to work and save to pump that number up.

I'm really interested in this lifestyle/retirement idea and have been discussing with a buddy how we could go in together on a decent sized piece of land, and split it. Build cabins or barns on our respective adjoining land, and help each other out (veggies, fruit, deer, labor). Taxes are super cheap on raw land, and a cheaper barn home, I don't feel I'd even need to insure. We've already gone in together on tools (log splitter, trailer) and share them between us.

The other option I am entertaining, is retiring in SE Asia. I could start this tomorrow if I wanted to, that is if $1,500 a month would allow me a simple life there. The visas, and all that legal stuff is what's puzzling me when I look into this, and at the moment don't have the patience for it. Wish there was a coach that could guide me if I decided to go this route. Watching youtube videos on this, just leaves me more and more confused due to everyone having a different method/opinion.

I think I want to try PovertyFire when I get out on my own, and I know the smart thing to do is read as much as possible on it and get as prepared as I can as quickly as possible ahead of the game.

I have read Amber Storcks book and Opossum living by Dolly Freed. I feel like some of their advice does not exactly fit all people especially at all times of their life, I imagine housing, and transportation would be much harder since Opossum living was written, Amber Storck has been blessed not to have any chronic conditions or major health crises and was gifted a house. I think there advice is still useable and not worthless by any means but I am looking for further resources or advice potentially with more than a small narrow amount of options for living conditions(not having to live with parents or rely on substantial amounts of government welfare if its possible to avoid that) and a plurality of options for dealing with factors regarding living expenses if there are multiple lifestyle options. (whether that is all in one resource or strewn across multiple).

Thank you for helping me get started on this journey towards Financial Independence!

I have been a low income retiree for three years now. I could have worked longer and had more money but I was not prepared to sacrifice my time for more money.

I am very good at being frugal and making due but what do you do for the large purchases? Do you save up by cutting your budget even more? What do you cut?

I will have to replace my car in a few years and I am starting to plan for that. I don't want to move to somewhere walkable. Where I live has poor public transit and it is not very walkable.

How do you plan for large expected expenses?

21 and have 90k in assets currently, 0 debt. 80k sp500 and 10k paid off car. I originally thought to pursue regular fire but I hate working to much to wait until age 40+. I’m currently making 60k and have annual expenses of ~20k.

I would buy land and/or a house in a ulcol area in cash for hopefully ~150k. From there I need about 400k to swr 14,000 a year at 3.5%. To hit that goal it will likely take 10-15 years. Obviously depending heavily on equity valuations. I will receive inheritance sometime between age 30-50 of 100k up to a million depending on how much my parents spend. Not going to count that until I actually get it. Offgrid is essential to poverty fire as utilities and increased taxes in a city could come to Upward’s of at least 5k a year more in expenses. That would mean years more at a job I hate.

The reason I’m pursuing fire is because I’m sick of being a “wage slave”. Most everyone ik hates their job but can’t escape as they are super consumeristic. Stuck by their own doing due to a mortgage, car payment, credit card debt, and basic overspending. I’m a minimalist and don’t purchase anything I can’t do on my own. I view the modern world as almost a complete disaster on all fronts. Look at everyone’s health in America! Not good to say the least. I believe hunter gatherers lived much happier lives than the average person alive in 2024.

Sure there is struggle in a self sufficient life but it’s much more rewarding than getting paid for the hour. I hunt 75% of the meat I eat every year and process it myself. That meat alone is worth upwards of 4k in value but costs me nothing except my $20 hunting license. I believe self reliance is the essence on fire. Freedom in the USA and most countries on earth is only possible if you can actually support yourself without a job. Imo if collecting rainwater is illegal we don’t live in any sort of a “free” country. I would think many in this sub resonate with my point of view on society.

I came across this book in 2019. "How to live without a job and with (almost) no money." Written by Dolly Freed in the early 70s, who was a young woman living with her dad in a paid for, $6000 house on a half acre. They live on an equivalent of about $5,500 a year in today's money. How they do it:

-Grow, hunt, scavenge almost all their own food - raise rabbits in the cellar, fish almost every day (with no license) hunt squirrel and pheasant, grow lots of vegetables, trade with neighbors, brew all their own alcohol
-preserve tons of food for the winter
-buy bulk grains from the animal feed store and grind them themselves
-no insurance, no retirement, only pay yearly property taxes
-work odd jobs babysitting and doing handwork around the neighborhood
-finding things for free, DIYing all repairs, alternative/trade economies
-no car, free hobbies, no vacations. "design a life we don't need a vacation from"

Now obviously the cost of living is much higher these days even adjusted for inflation, and their way of living is extreme. I would hate to stay in one place my entire life, and I want health insurance and some security for retirement. But, this book has encouraged me to try and FIRE while also working about 30 hours a week. It's also like $4 online, I highly recommend to anyone who could use some inspiration and practical tips

How do you cope with working/accumulating?

How do you "Hold On/Cope" while accumulating?

Despite understanding FIRE inside and out, I've failed to accumulate any meaningful amount of savings because I find that with every job I try (and I've worked in MANY fields) I start off highly motivated, but after about 2 months I progressively becoming bored, then depressed, then angry, then falling into various addictions, then quitting and burning through my savings while taking a long break from employment.

There's been two instances where I've been able to hold on to a job for over a year, work long hours and quickly move up the ladder, but the same thing happens. Even if I'm making good money and the job is tolerable, the same thing happens eventually.

I've done about everything I can to minimize. I live an Early Retirement Extreme type lifestyle where I've lived on as little as $500 a month by not having a phone plan, not driving, eating excess food from a pantry I volunteered at, going on Medicaid, having cheap hobbies, renting an old place, etc.

I already eat well, workout, have friendships and relax with various forms of digital entertainment on my off time.

How do you all hold on to a job, especially when you've already established a well-rounded financial plan?

My current income (self-employed reseller): $60k

My current spending (personal): $15k-$20k

I am currently 31 and at my projected savings rate I will have $400k by 33. I can also profit around $1,000 a month pretty easily by reselling things. This may take up like 10 hours a week for at scale.

No kids, no girlfriend, no debt. I am pretty frugal. My rent currently is $900 a month.

I just enjoy having free time. It is the best feeling in the world. Especailly when I can take long walks to grocery stores or just slow cook a meal while reading a book.

I don't really have many needs. Dating got too expensive for me because of gender roles (the man always pays, etc). I don't really have ambition to seek out "more."

I understand health care costs can impact my retirement. Working a small side income will allow me to qualify for free health insurance. Lowing my own stress, exercising more, and eating well will also have a dramatic impact. I have some friends and family who have had life altering injuries from their jobs.

One friend fell from a tree he was assigned to cut down. Another one had a car crash when driving to their job.

Honestly, the job market seems to have the biggest risk towards my own health.

But what are your thoughts? What are your concerns? I look at my net worth and I have zero ambition these days to make more money lol. I'm just coasting.

Edit to add:

I wasn't very clear with the goal of this post. I know by the 4% SWR rule I am not ready for FIRE based on my current expenses. I listed the numbers to sort of give an idea of where I am technically, which I'd estimate is 50-75% of the way to where I need to be. Not really looking for that technical analysis since I already know I'm short "by the book".

The goal of the post is to see who else out there might be sorta kinda close, and thinking of making some additional sacrifices to lower expenses, or take some chances like assuming a higher SWR than 4%, banking on an inheritance that maybe isn't 100% guaranteed, etc.

I feel pretty desperate with the methods I'm considering to get FIREd, and just wondering who else might be feeling the same and are you willing to be a little crazy to get there? Or also, do you have any easy, online ways to supplement monthly income to reduce investment withdrawals (survey sites I listed below being a perfect example of what I'm talking about, just need a few more)? Of course the final stop gap is returning to work in a few years if things don't go as planned. Talking age 50 so it wouldn't be terrible, would it if necessary? Not looking to return to a white collar career. I'd be happy mowing grass at a golf course.

First, the easy factors to consider:

Current liquid assets:

457b $86k 403b $76k HSA $15k Roth IRA $33k Crypto $40k

Total ~$250k

Other:

Home Equity ~$125k after expenses if I sold. Car and such that I probably would keep even if FIREd

My original goal was to aim for just under the 138% of FPL for a single person to be eligible for expanded Medicaid coverage. Current liquid assets even at an aggressive 4.5% SWR put me at barely over half of that. Even adding in the home equity if I were to sell it puts me at about 80% of the 138% FPL.

But, I just turned 45 and call it a mid-life crisis or whatever, I am thoroughly sick of working and want off this ride lol. At least for a little while. I sort of coast poverty fired a couple of years ago so I've just been letting the investments grow without contributing. My current income covers expenses but not much more.

I'm not ok with retiring on $250k and remaining in this house. It's more house than I need (3 bd/2 ba for a single guy), and more expense than I can manage on passive income from $250k.

I'd rather not sell the house, at least not yet in case I have a change of heart and want to return to the home I've been in for 12 years now. It should rent for enough to conservatively cover all costs and expenses via a property management company, and still give me $200 or so monthly free cash flow. That's putting quite a bit towards maintenance and capital expenses just to be safe.

I started doing surveys on Prolific and CloudResearch Connect a few months ago. Pulled in about $400 last month doing those in free time but not idea how long that is sustainable. Let's say maybe I could count on $200 from those monthly average.

Potentially though $200 from renting house and $200 from online survey taking or whatever would be $400/month. $900/month withdrawal from investments puts me at $1300/month. I could get by on that, but it would be tight and my investments aren't likely to do anything more than to hold steady and not really grow beyond cost of living increases.

Here's where I really start to sound desperate. My parents, both age 82, have a guest house at their main residence and a vacation home in an adjacent state that I'm sure they would let me live in for free. I probably wouldn't even have to pay utilities, but would likely offer to pick up something just to not feel like a total mooch. Without much in the way of housing expense, I could reduce my $900/month withdrawal from investments to $400-$500/month probably, allowing the investments to hopefully continue to grow a little to give me slightly more income in the future.

Downsides to this plan that I see are:

When mom and dad pass, I'll have to be able to pay for housing again.

This is really a leaner lifestyle than I had planned on, but every time I hear of someone who died in their 60's (a friend's dad just passed this week from cancer at 68), it lights a fire under my ass to be done with working and enjoy life.

Other potential resources:

An inheritance of mostly real estate that will be worth around $300k, assuming no long term care expenses for the parents eat into that.

Home equity of about $125k currently that could be added to investments if I sell it one day.

Could always go back to work in a few years if things weren't going well.

The parts that give me anxiety are living next door to my parents who I'm sure will expect me to spend a lot of time with them, being in the town I grew up in which is boring af, and just overall having a much leaner budget than I had planned originally. On the flip side, I would be close to help them as they get older with things they might need help with.

I'm basically split 50/50 on what to do. I know a lot of the choices are personal decisions and ultimately about who I am and what I want. However, really curious to see what most of you would do and what sacrifices you'd make to stop working? Would you live next door to your elderly parents as an adult? Would you be ok with this lean of a budget?

Also, anything I'm missing please let me know. Anything in addition to the survey sites I mentioned above to generate a little extra cash online? Even $200/month from something easy and not requiring too much commitment would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

My birthday is coming up at the beginning of this week, and it just feels silly honestly. I don't talk to family and don't have friends that live close. I want to do something because I really haven't celebrated my birthday in at least 4-5 years, but leaving the house is so expensive. I work a stupid job that barely gets the bills paid, if ever on time. I finally have my birthday off this year, and I feel like I'm just going to sleep all day, which is kind of depressing.

Right now, these are places are not good to FIRE due to political reasons and being closed off. However in the long term, these places could be very good for leanfire due to declining populations and very affordable property prices outside the major cities (and they will get cheaper due to declining populations in these cities). For Russia, it is possible to buy apartments in provincial cities for around $10k and in some places you can even get them for 3K. China's population is declining and China's property market looks to be stagnant (for provincial cities, I don't think it would ever bounce back up). In Japan and Italy right now, you can buy houses in the countryside for around £500 due to population decline. I feel prices in the countryside for Russia and China will be even cheaper in the future. Does this look like a promising long term prospect for you (it really depends on politics), especially since house prices are marching upwards in the west.

Also cheaper non controversial places like Malaysia and Bosnia (Bosnia is facing a steep population decline) do exist so right now these would be a wiser choice than china or russia.

The NY Essential Plan is perfect for povertyFIREs. Recently expanded to 250% FPL ($37,650 house of one, $51,100 house of two) features $0 a month premiums, free vision and dental, free preventative medicine, max out of pocket a year $2K ($37.6K - $30K), $360 ($30K - $22.6k), or $200 (< $22.6K) depending on income band.

https://info.nystateofhealth.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2024%20Essential%20Plan%20Fact%20Sheet%20-%20English%20expansion.pdf

And when you get to Medicare age no need for a Medigap policy as long as income is ($21,024 house of one, $28,207 house of two) all Medicare out of pockets get paid for.

https://www.medicarerights.org/fliers/Medicare-Savings-Programs/MSP-Info-Sheet-(NY).pdf?nrd=1

Press release:

https://info.nystateofhealth.ny.gov/news/press-release-governor-hochul-announces-federal-approval-expand-access-high-quality-affordable

Add:

Blue Cross Blue Shield pdf

https://www.excellusbcbs.com/documents/d/excellus/exc_essential_plan_brochure_a11y

Fidelis

https://www.fideliscare.org/Portals/0/Members/ComparisonCharts/Essential-Plan-EP-Comparison-Chart-1-5.pdf

Cost sharing

https://info.nystateofhealth.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Attachment%20G%20-%20EP%20Benefits%20and%20Cost-Sharing_Revised%206%2020%202023.pdf

Hi.

It's no real secret that many people who go through Ch7 bankruptcy find themselves keeeping more than they thought they would.

Assets like retirement accounts and primary residences are exempt from seizure by your creditors except in the case of fraud.

That's curious because I can imagine a time in mid retirement where those might be the primary/only assets I own. Or at least where my credit limits would dwarf all other assets added together.

So what does this sub think about a plan like this, and does it constitute fraud?

Start with $700k or so, $300k in 401k, $100k ROTH, and $300k in brokerage, and $150k in credit limits. $300k in a taxable brokerage is not so much that it would last me forever.

Use the brokerage money to buy a ~$600k house with a down payment (more house than I would want normally). The other $180k or so pays the mortgage and minimums throughout the rest of this.

Quit or lose job soon after, this is your RE date. Do ROTH conversions up to a certain tax bracket from now on.

Shift all spending to credit cards, use rewards, pay all minimums for a while. Maybe like 6-7 years. Over this time, the ROTH+401k money should roughly double again since sitting untouched. It could actually be less time than that if I am underestimating how quickly credit card debt compounds, as I have never had any.

Time the complete draining of your taxable brokerage account with maxing out all the credit cards. Apply for more for as long as you can when your revolving debt is still low, maybe open some personal loans, etc.

Hit brokerage $0 and remaining credit $0, default on loans. Shift spending to ROTH withdrawals (since you now have rougly $800k in retirement accts).

Go through chapter 7 bankruptcy, stop using credit cards (for 7+ years), keep spending from the ROTH. Downsize the primary residence if you want to at this point, since it served the asset protection purpose. Live a good life.

Reduce all numbers by 30-50% if that fits better with your definition of povertyFIRE. I am probably more of a frugal LeanFIRE guy but this post seemed like a better fit for this sub.

I like Schemes. Sorry if this sounds wild or if it's just fraud.

I'm not a lawyer but the closest clause I can find is

"purchasing items on existing credit with no intention of repaying the debt (proven by showing the lack of an ability to pay at the time of purchase)"

I guess intention is important here, but that sounds very vague, especially since I imagine almost everyone who goes through bankruptcy uses debt at some point in the process knowing that paying it back is hopeless.

When is the line drawn?

I call PovertyFire LONRE- Live on Nothing Retire Early. I was forced into early retirement by a disability. It has been almost seven years since I was first approved for disability. I am a little over the poverty level as I am just a single household and my disability benefits are pretty good compared to many people. I made a professional wage for a number of years as a computer programmer. Plus I work part time being mindful to stay under the thresholds of a Trial Work Period. I am 53 and have been retired since 46.

I (36, M) with my partner (36, F) and two kids under 5, currently are on a journey towards financial independence and early retirement (FIRE). We will be moving back to India and hence our expenses will be small compared to the US/Europe. We've been diligently working towards our FIRE number of 550k USD, and currently, we're at 420k USD. However, due to recent changes in our lives, we are contemplating taking a pause before hitting our FIRE target.

Here's a snapshot of our current financial situation:

Note: Except for the funds invested in the US market, everything else is tied to India, so the move will be easy and the funds will be locally generated while we stay there.

Investments:

Indian stock market: 132k USD

US stock market: 50k USD

Apartment in India: 85k

Cash: 132k (undecided on where to invest)

Land: 18k (planning to sell and invest)

SIPs: Remaining amount.

Monthly Expense: 1800 USD

Monthly Income:

Part-time job income (combined): 1000 USD

Rent from the apartment: 240 USD

We are seeking your valuable insights on how to strategically navigate this phase. Specifically, we're looking for advice on:

Optimal investment options for the loose cash (132k USD) and proceeds from the land sale (18k).

Any suggestions on tweaking our current investment strategy.

Thoughts on balancing part-time jobs and FIRE goals.

We are open to diverse perspectives and would appreciate any advice, tips, or personal experiences you can share. Your insights will contribute significantly to our financial journey.

Thank you in advance for your time and suggestions!

The Federal Register hasn't published them yet, but the 2024 inflation adjustments to the Federal Poverty Line are out. Good to see that they have come down a lot from the +7%-8% range last year, but still quite a bit higher than some might like. Important number for anyone using or planning on using FPL-gated programs like the ACA, Expansion/Children's Medicaid, CHIP, NSLP, FAFSA, and so forth.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines/prior-hhs-poverty-guidelines-federal-register-references

https://archive.is/DKY5B - Link to avoid paywall.

"Many Americans reach retirement with almost no savings. No 401(k). Few investments. And almost no income aside from a monthly Social Security check.

Roughly one in seven Social Security recipients ages 65 and older depend on their benefits for nearly all their income, according to an AARP analysis. Unable to maintain the lifestyle of their working years, they trim their already trim budgets, move into smaller homes, or rely on the kindness of relatives to get by."

My GST rebate was applied to my income tax balance. If I make payment arrangements tomorrow, is that enough time to get my climate rebate on the 15th?

I feel like the main fire subs and even the "lean" fire subs are filled with corporate go-do'er types with great jobs, a husband/wife, and a 2% mortgage house.

I feel jealous but we all have to work with what we have.

My goals for 2024 is to travel more and plan if I want to own a home or not. If I did, I would look for something under $200k and get roommates to split the costs. Right now I am living with parents.

What are your plans and how did 2023 go for you?

was on track to retire at 46… this sucks…

Hello, i'm an European guy.

I will have soon a degree in Informatics, and I will reach soon a rent of arround 10k/year with MWRD world etf.

I love povertyFIRE because here we are speaking about normal's live people. Not those who go with 800k + in early retirement.

So, I have 2 bugs choices : Go to Panama, or go to Colombia.

Panama is very expensive so I will have to absolutely find a work in order to live there, because 10k/year won't be enough ( and I also will need 5k to pay attorney visa ). It's safe country.

In Colombia it's cheap, but I don't know much about immigration rules, I'm sure that 10k is enough to live there even if I don't find a job so I will juste FIRE tranquillo ! But I don't know if the country is really safe.

So I'm asking you, what will you choose if you were in my case ? Or would you rather chose an other destination, in SEA for example?

As the title says, does anyone else when they're on a day off from work spend most of their day in bed just to keep warm ? I have found myself doing this due to the cost of gas. Wondering what the point of life is at this point.

So, I've spent more time at r/leanfire, and the main thing that I noticed over there, was that it seemed like the people there had WAY more money than what the sub is actually talking about. So, I figured, this wasn't the right sub for me.

Now, I'm checking out PovertyFIRE, but the problem that I have is that I'm having a hard time believing that PovertyFIRE is realistic based on the numbers in the sidebar. How does one have yearly expenses less than 14k, unless you're living in some tiny backwater town in Mississippi?

No offense to you if you actually live in a tiny backwater town in Mississippi, lol.

Basically, I'm looking for a forum where people are hoping to survive off about 30k per year in Retirement. Something halfway realistic. LeanFIRE seems like it should be the place, but everybody there seems like they own houses and stuff and have all this other stuff, and they don't really seem very lean to me.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding all of the various FIRE genres.

so now crazy consumption like a sportscar or fancy vacations... how would you spend 20k to invest in your long term life happness?

r/NonJobFIRE

"Do what you want while you waiting patiently to do even more of what you want"

NonJobFIRE is a community for people striving for FIRE that focuses specifically on reducing the amount of work done on the job while you wait to hit your portfolio goal.

A "NonJob" refers to a job, typically unskilled, low-payed and 3rd shift, with an extremely minimal workload.

The main skill required of these jobs is just being a warm body and holding down the fort, despite whatever the job description leads you to believe.

Usually at NonJobs you can do whatever you want while working to maximize your time (which your boss will likely tell you straight-out) like playing computer games, doing FIRE research, planing your move to a LCOL country, working on an online business,, listening to music or podcasts, exercising, getting therapy, making necessary calls, talking to friends, online dating, online shopping, reading, etc.

Because of the low-bar for employment, many of these positions have a high turn-over rate and offer large amounts of overtime, allowing you to generate a sizable income for just being there.

Example: With overtime, working 64 hours a week of a $17 an hour non-job security position earns you $67184 anually (gross).

Combine this with Early Retirement Extreme levels of expenses ($8000 anually), and you can retire in approximately 4 years (50k@4y=200k) (considering taxes and expenses), all while doing whatever you want (within reason).

Non-Job Examples: -Security Guard -Night Auditor -Parking Lot Attendant (Taking Suggestions*)

I posted this in r/personalfinance before realizing it was probably better suited for r/povertyfire.

Is it possible, that if one were subject to the 0% long term capital gains tax rate, that a taxable account would be okay to prioritize over a Roth IRA?

This would be for the ease of accessing the funds before age 59 & 1/2. I know there are some ways around that but is there reason to complicate things if one were to project to be taxed at the 0% long term capital gains tax rate for the foreseeable future? And is this even something that one can reasonably project?

Taxes are an area of confusion to me, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question. Also, I live in Tennessee, where we have no state income tax and, I believe, the hall tax on interest & divided income was phased out in 2022. I’m unsure how or if this should affect my decision.

I plan to eventually have both a Roth IRA and a taxable account but I’m unsure which one to prioritize. I know tax advantaged is almost always recommended as the first to max out but are there situations in which that may not necessarily apply? I’ve read the “what to do in case of early retirement” articles but I wonder if I’m in a unique situation being able to invest with such a low income and no state income/capital gains tax.

One complication I’m thinking with the taxable is potentially being pushed over the 0% threshold once the gains are realized. But one thing I’m thinking with the Roth is if I didn’t want to do equal periodic payments, or any of the other early access options, would paying the 10% penalty potentially offset the benefits?

I believe in paying my fair share of taxes but I’m also obviously lower income so I would like to be able to invest with the most optimal outcome for my situation. And obviously I’d like to give myself the opportunity to get out of the lower income bracket at some point but my cost of living is also incredibly low so it isn’t a huge point of stress for now.