Hello Everyone! I would like to clarify what the cutoff point for lean FIRE is, given how I've seen different definitions. One that pops up frequently is $40,000 of spending a year. I prefer instead how this subreddit defines it differently for an individual ($25,000) vs. a household with multiple people ($50,000).

I noticed that this subreddit was created in 2015, so has that number ($25K individual/$50 for more than 1 person) been adjusted to 2024 inflation?

Also, I hear of the term "chubby fire" (which borders "FAT" fire with high spending and "regular" fire with moderate spending. But is there a counterpart to that on the cusp between "lean" fire and "regular" fire?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts!

Edit: Thank you for all the excellent feedback. Just to address one question that has come up in a few of those, the reasons I posted this are (1) academic curiosity; and (2) I think I'm borderline lean/regular FIRE because of having a defined benefit pension that will be coming my way in a few years from working in the public sector, that I'm very thankful for. Depending on how long I continue to work (which is a bit uncertain- depending on life circumstances outside of work and how tolerable/enjoyable- or not- my job is for the next few years), that would give me an income of anywhere from 31K to 50K in a few years (less than 5), not counting some savings/investments.

Edit 2: Thank you for everyone's comments so far. I appreciate each and every one and tried to respond to everyone I saw. If I missed yours, I will do my best to get back to read it soon.

I'v been rerunning my FIRE simulations, and over a 30 year time horizon they line up pretty well with the ERN simulations (100% stocks).

However when my timeframe is reduced to 20 years, the success rate goes up dramatically, and increasing the timeframe to 40+ years, success rate goes down dramatically. Success rate meaning still have more than $0.

I'm confused as to why ERN sims are barely affected over a x2 time period, eg @ 3.75% WR, there is a 99% success at 30 years, but it only drops to 94% at 60 years. This is not what i notice in my sims, and although i cant quantify the reason, 94% seems to high. I suspect its because ERN sims are based on actual market data, so always follows the same rythms; my sims are based on random/montecarlo data with StDev volatility at 16 and mean interest rate of 6%. Additionally i only count a simulation run (full 20,30,40 .etc years) as valid if the mean interest rate in between 6-7%, reflecting the long term market conditions.

Any ideas on the discrepancy? Also it one method more valid than the other?

I was wondering if there's a personality difference?

Also availability of a good work experience.

Consider a situation where a $600k stock portfolio consist of $450k own money and a $150k margin loan, which has 4% interest rate. Assume that the stock market would provide average returns.

If we'd be to apply the "4% safe withdrawal rate" rule, would the safe withdrawal per year be $24k, $18k, or something else?

Hi, I’m 25 and work as an RN in NorCal. I make $90/hr and currently work 32 hours a week, bringing in about 150k/yr after some overtime here and there. My work is transitioning to 12 hr shifts from 8s right now and I have the option of either doing 2 or 3 days a week. My current expenses are about 36k/yr. I really don’t enjoy working at my current job and I value my freedom and time off very highly, so I’m strongly considering doing 2 days a week and clumping them together so I can do 4 on 10 off. This would give me freedom to travel (which I love) and just enjoy life more. Going to 12 hr shifts I’d switch to night shift so I’d get a slight bump in pay, so if I worked 3 days/week I’d make about 187k, vs 124k working 2 days a week. I feel like I’m gonna get a lot of questioning from friends and family because I’m still relatively young and now is the time to grind, but my expenses being what they are I can easily afford to reduce my hours and still save a significant amount for retirement. Maybe I’m crazy and should just grind for a few more years now. What do you guys think?

Current savings rate: 79k/yr Est savings rate working 3 days/wk: 104k/yr Est savings rate working 2 days/wk: 61k/yr

Have about 150k between 401k, HYSA, Roth IRA, and taxable brokerage

Excluding cliches/low likelihood options, such as nepotism, inheritance, good luck, sex work, etc.

I'm considering dropping out of college to find a different, more lucrative form of work in my younger years.

I'm curious if this is pure naivete or if there's a real possibility of finding alternative means to make some real, solid financial gains.

If, coming off of your years of financial and work experience, you happen to have some actionable advice - please let us early birds know. It would be cool of you :)

What have you been working on this week? Please use this thread to discuss any progress, setbacks, quick questions or just plain old rants to the community.

I have planned to retire early since I started to work at 20 yo. However, with the great performance of the market and higher salaries than expected, I’m now with 1.1M USD invested 80% in ETFs and 20% crypto at 29yo My expense are around 60k USD a year. So not enough to retire with a 3.5%-4% even if it’s getting close. I would need to work 3 years more.

I live in Switzerland so really pricey, my rent is 2k USD a month.

I do have a big passion for sport and one of my goal is to be an elite in trail running .

My options:

1. continue to work few years to be able live comfortably in Switzerland
2. Work part-time
3. take a 1 year sabbatical to slow travel and then go back to work part time
4. move in another country
5. Choose a high withdrawal rate like 6% and work (part time or full time) in case of bad performance of the market

I know that 29yo is really young and I would need some external guidance and opinions😊

I just returned from the office after turning in my badge and laptop. I finally managed to break free from the "just one more year" mindset and retire. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. A new chapter begins! Off to SEA on the 24th.

My numbers as of 11/22/2024:

• Networth: 1.280M
• Zero debt
• Burn rate: USD30k/year
• Paid off house outside the US

I am anticipating a move to Florida around the May time-frame. I will be shipping my car from Hawaii and driving cross country.

I will be 55 in May and I'm hoping to find a 55+ apartment community.

I would like to find a locale north of Fort Lauderdale, either coast. My wants are fairly basic.

1. Rental under 1500 per month in a 55+ apartment community.
2. Within 15 minute drive to a beach.
3. Close to a VA hospital.
4. Safe area

I am a single, empty nester with no family in the state, so I really desire a social network. I am open to working a few hours a week for social interactions.

Also, as a former nomad, travel is important so being close to a port/airport is desirable.

Looking for suggestions and maybe some of you have similar circumstances.

So this is just me and I'm not saying anyone else is like this. But not having structure and being ADHD....

I took a "mini retirement" (temporary) and it's tough exerting myself. Like I even set a goal to do pushups everyday and I quit.

All I do is surf reddit. Most concentrated thing I do is socialize, cook and watch movies in the theatre (I'd be unable to do so probably if it was in one sitting on netflix on my computer).

I knew someone on disability benefits at my Church. I suggested that he study the bible since he had unlimited time and he said he just liked to discuss things and learn through other people. He doesn't have ADHD so I think this lazy creep can happen to anyone.

Any tips would be appreciated.

I’m trying to do a backdoor Roth IRA, but ran into some issues. I had too much income to contribute directly to a Roth, so I recharacterized it to a traditional IRA. The next step is converting it to Roth, but I need to make sure my Vanguard rollover IRA has a $0 balance by year-end (I have 1,225 shares of VTSAX).

I called Vanguard to confirm the price, and they said it would be yesterday’s price. That was wrong, which I discovered later after checking with others. I tried to cancel the transaction, but couldn’t. I sold the shares at $136, missing out on about $6-7k in potential gains. I’ve learned that you don’t know the final price of selling mutual funds until after the sale.

Vanguard admitted the mistake and said they’ll fix it, but there’s an issue. I already rolled over the funds to Fidelity for 167k, and now the balance is $166k due to market downtrun. Didn't think they'll take responsibility with this. Vanguard will adjust as soon as the money reaches my account (so I'll have 1225 VTSAX again, as if the transaction never happened).

The process:

• Vanguard tried to stop the check on Friday, but it was already cashed by Fidelity. Now my balance is $166k. This steps fails.
• Vanguard will ask Fidelity to return the money. I don’t know how long that’ll take. They said it'll take 3 business days to just prep the letter.
• If above doesn't work, they'll go with reimbursement. I don't know what what this means.

If all of above doesn’t work, Vanguard will make an adjustment for the difference. I asked them to just give me adjustment, but they refused unless I go through all of the process. I asked them to speak with supervisor, but need to wait 48 hours.

My questions:

• Should I leave the money in Fidelity and proceed with the Roth conversion?
• Should I wait for the process to finish, even if it risks missing the Roth conversion and paying taxes on the $7k roth contribution?

This is money I won’t need for 20 years.

What have you been working on this week? Please use this thread to discuss any progress, setbacks, quick questions or just plain old rants to the community.

Having a surreal month watching my portfolio explode. Started with a decent mix of:

• Tech stocks (especially semiconductors)
• Financial sector plays
• Some crypto exposure
• Various other assets

Problem is, I wasn't prepared for moves this big. My tracking system (messy combo of spreadsheets and apps) is falling apart. Can't even calculate my total gains anymore because everything's moving so fast across different accounts.

Anyone else having an insane month? More importantly, how are you keeping track when everything's moving this quickly?

If anyone knows how to make a dollar stretch, it's the lean fire community I'm sure! :)

Who knows of a High Yield ETF that is Qualified Dividends?

Background -

I'm 45 in January, Coast FIRE, and think I may get laid off next year. If that happens, I have a 17 year stretch to collecting my Coast FIRE pension at age 62 so need to bridge the gap for those years. I'm hoping to do it with a nest-egg of approx. 330k, so I need high yield, qualified dividends, to reduce the tax burden to zero and make it possible. Thanks for any ideas!

SCHD is around 3.4 and SPYI is around 12% but only 60% of that is qualified. Any other leads?

So there's rules of thumbs for x percent you can safely (x risk level) withdrawal from your portfolio over x time line. But when do you apply that percentage to your portfolio. For example the amount I could've pulled on 11/9 was great and I was gonna put my two weeks in tomorrow based on that number. Obviously that number is pretty different now (though still a good number for me). And if I go through and quit I wouldn't need to withdrawal from my portfolio until 1/1/25 so what if the market hypothetically goes 20% between then and now (I know bit of an extreme forecast but just trying to demonstrate what i'm talking about) would I do my withdrawal rate based on 11/9 12/1 when I quit and am truly fire or 1/1 when I do my first withdrawal? Do you do a withdrawal rate of a 7 day average or something similar?

I'll delete this thread if its too off topic. But I recently discovered this subreddit:

r/simpleliving

from the description:

Breaking free of the work/spend/borrow cycle in order to live more fully, sustainably, and cooperatively.

I'm kinda bummed out by this news.

I'm now tied to California with a ball and a chain.

If I leave California, I would need to switch to the most expensive healthcare plan that my employer carries. PERS Platinum or something like that. I work for the State of California, and the really good news, is that if you make it to 20 years of State Service, the State will cover 100% of the allowable amount per month. Right now, that amount is like $800 or something. If the health plan that you pick is below $800 per month, then you pay zero monthly. (You still have to pay your prescription copays and doctor visit copays, etc.)

PERS Platinum is the most expensive. It's somewhere between $308 and $400 something more per month for PERS Platinum. Above the State allowable amount per month.

If I leave California, the only plan that will work is PERS Platinum. So, I'm forced into it. I can either stay in California and save $400 per month, or I can leave California and pay $400 extra per month

NOTE: all the numbers that I'm referring to aren't exact at all, I'm just giving examples. They're in the ballpark tho

Not sure if this is the right place for my post, but suggestions on where would be better would be appreciated. My wife (40) and I (41) just paid off our housing (a condo) and now have only a $540 monthly payment for taxes, HOA and insurance. HOA covers all utilities other than electric (about $70 a month) and we pay another $150 a month for an additional car space, though when the car dies we will likely be staying a one care household. We have no kids.

We make about $110,000 a year. Our condo is worth roughly $200,000. We have about $150,000 in retirement accounts and another $35,000 or so in savings, so these need a little work.

We sold our larger house in the suburbs after moving to a condo in the city, and we are now looking at about $2,500 a month in additional money to invest without altering our lifestyle in any way. I am hoping that by the time I am around 50, I could either work less and/or be more choosey with my job (I've been in fundraising for the past two decades and would love to pair my talents with a passion area, even if it pays less and may have more risk). Ultimately want to retire by 55-60.

My question is what are the best ways to invest that money to potentially help through some of the more lean times and until I hit social security age, while also developing a healthy 401k. Bear in mind I'll still be working into my late 50s, but would like to have funds available because I'll probably take employment that comes with more risk, and could be between jobs from time to time.

Thanks!

I think most people do not realize what a good deal military retirement is. Especially as an officer. After finishing college I served for 20 years 10 months and 9 days. I retired at 48 years old in a position to never have to work another day of my life. I had accumulated $750,000 in CDs, and had zero debt. My pension started at $56,000 a year and adjusts upwards with the consumer price index. I will also get social security. My health insurance cost $500 a year and is very good. I live a modest lifestyle but I enjoy it very much, along with good health cuz I have plenty of time to exercise. I feel like military retirement is one of the few really good pension opportunities remaining. Often overlooked.

Many traditional FIRE calculators are too conservative and showing you need millions more than you might actually need.

I recently came across the concept of "die with zero", basically spend all your money by the time to say goodbye. The traditional FIRE prioritizes saving, spending below the means, accumulating wealth, etc. and I still believe in those values today. However, the DWZ approach brings another perspective to wealth and life.

It poses a question that "what if we over-save (or under-spend) and miss out on life experience in our prime years". Most FIRE calculators show millions of dollar accumulated after 30 year retirement time. I've been wondering do we really need that much, and can we find a balance and potentially retire sooner? So I built a calculator (https://realfirecalc.com) that:

• uses your personal life expectancy
• factors in your planned spending
• realistic investment assumptions, taxes, etc.
• shows how long your money will last

I'm actively improving this tool. Let me know what you think and would love your feedback!

What have you been working on this week? Please use this thread to discuss any progress, setbacks, quick questions or just plain old rants to the community.

I [38, single, no kids] have recently come into an inheritance and am looking for some advice. I have almost no knowledge of financial anything beyond a basic budget.

The dust has finally settled surrounding the estate and I believe I am on the edge of making it work.

Currently, I earn around $50,000/year before taxes.

Savings account - $365,000
CDs, mature within 6 months - $210,000
Cash and equivalent - $35,000

I have no investment accounts or retirement accounts at all. I also have no debt.

I own two homes free and clear
My old house (High COL area) - $250,000
The family farm (Low COL area) - $450,000

My current expenses are roughly $2,400/month.

I am currently in the process of moving into the house at the farm with the intent of selling my old house.

I've run these numbers through several online calculator tools and gotten different results, so I'm hoping maybe someone here can give me some more insight.

Assuming I can come away from selling my old house with no less than $150,000 in hand I come out to about $750,000 and most of the calculators I've looked at come back with that being enough. Is that really gonna be true?

If so, how does one go about actually making it happen if you haven't been actively building towards it and it just all happens at once?

If not, how do I go about figuring out what number I actually do need?

Hello, I’m a 27F living in NYC , working a freelance job making around 40-50k. I went back to school and on track to finish my bachelor’s degree in Criminology with a plan to go into Law School.

I have

• around 13k in Marcus Auto Investing Acct
• 3.8k in Fidelity Acct that I manage myself (VOO, QQQ..etc). I just started it and I plan to put in around 500 every month .
• 49k in ROTH IRA management by Betterment auto investing where I plan to max 6.5-7k.
• 20k in ibond. It just sits, I see it as a locked up saving box.
• 100k in 5yr CD maturing in 8/2/2027 (bad thing is I bought it at the wrong time and the rate was only 2.9%)

I have no family help since 18, and am not an investment guru. I know my allocation probably make some ppl wanna knock on my head . I have money managing issue so I always try to get my money “locked up “ in CD, bond or investment accts. I have scarcity trauma and the idea of leanFIRE brings me mental comfort like if I can get to a number then I no longer needs to be stressful .

I tried to save money towards down payment in a HYSA, but drained it to start a small business ( plans to invest 25k before launching) . With the business , I hope to start a 401k for myself.

In addition, law school is going to another big expense. And I have no idea how I can afford a condo in this economy.

Hi need some feedback on if I ready to lean fire.

Current networth 1.2M

Age 38

Stocks & Crypto Holdings:

• 401k - 55k
• IRA - 30k
• HSA - 20k
• Crypto - 60k
• Taxable Stocks - 250k

Real estate holdings: (all paid off)

• Primary Rssidence - 230k
• Rental Property #1 400k
• Rental Property #2 190k

Monthly Income from rentals $4k

Monthly expenses total = $3k

• This include $250 monthly allocated/saved for property repairs and $100 a month allocated for car repairs also

It looks like ACA plan subsidies would cover health care variables (barring anything drastic from Trump..)

No kids/spouse.

Am I ready? What am I overlooking or missing?

One variable I'm not sure how to account for is an aging parent with who had retired with limited funds beyond social security..

Thoughts?

I'm 44, single, and nearing my needed numbers and starting to plan how to handle it. The bulk of my money is in my 401k. I've read endless posts about the pros/cons of SEPP vs Roth Ladders in this situation. I'll need $25-30k for annual expenses, but I won't have enough in non-retirement accounts to cover 5 years of that, so a Roth Ladder alone likely won't work.

Is there any reason why more people don't suggest doing a combination of a SEPP with a Roth Ladder? It seems to me like they compliment each other quite well. I'd roll my 401k into two separate Traditional IRAs, one for the SEPP and one for the Roth Laddering. I'd size it so that the SEPP gives me a good consistent base of $20k a year. Then Roth Ladder as much as I can within my tax bracket to cover the more/less variable needs in any given future year. While using my non-retirement accounts in those first 5 years to cover the much smaller 5-10k remaining needs until the ladder kicks in.

Anything I'm overlooking here?

I submitted my 2-week notice on Friday and received confirmation from my manager. My last day will be November 22nd, 2024.

!​!<

My numbers:
Networth as of 11/10/2024 - USD: 1M281K
Burn rate: USD30k/year

Here’s my 2025 budget. The craziest thing to me is that I’m paying almost one month of expenses off of cash back rewards, though these would drop if I retired/started saving less. https://ibb.co/gDbhR1G

Any feedback’s always welcome!

(30m) Today I’m sitting at 129k in my 401k. Does it just go faster from here? At this rate I will go from 100k to 200k in 3 years. This is insane. Retiring by 45 may actually be possible after all.

I found this video an interesting take and relevant to the community—the OP put some effort into collecting different people's stories/versions on a minimal FIRE lifestyle, from lawyers opting out to people choosing to live in a yurt. The choices are really... so wild. Would love to hear more people's stories here. (btw if you are interested in the video, here's the link Minimum to not die - how cheap are you willing to go to retire early?)