Does anyone here know how direct quotes work in Ithkuil? I know there is a punctuation mark, but how would I handle them grammar-wise?

Hi everyone,

I'm very new to Ithkuil, and I noticed that between versions cut down its cases from 96 to 68. I was wondering what the design choice was, because it seems to contradict the philosphy of being as compact as possible.

Thank you!

I want to be able to construct a sentence, 'The concept of multiple snow leopards with various function converging to an ultimate goal, said concept being of by a man in a red jacket walking down a street, being caused to do so by a manifestation of said group of snow leopards'. I have absolutely no idea how to do any sort of advanced conjugation unless it's very simple. Like, 'Erryařţliaa', The concept of a rag-tag group of snow leopards with various functions not necessarily beneficial to themselves but definitely beneficial to the speaker'. Please correct me if I conjugated that sentence wrong. I also used a generator for the last one.

I am trying to translate this sentence into Ithkuil III. Could someone check my translation?

Original: Morgarath looked out over his domain.

My attempt: N-naxát opul Morgaraț embuisìöq.

I had a few specific questions:

1. Is the inducive case correct here (if he is actively looking)?

2. Is stative ok for the verb N-naxát?

3. Is the first n in n-naxát also syllabic as it starts the word here, or just the second one?

Thanks in advance!

I've read that section a couple times and can't figure it out - one of the examples looks like just Slots 1-2-3-9, but then others have full Ca complexes attached. Is it a difference between Type 1 and Type 2 concatenation? Is it a difference between noun concatenation and verb/technically-not-an-adjective concatenation? Would really like to figure this out, being able to compound would make things so much easier.

I am trying to translate a text and some roots seem to have a kind of “double meaning”. As an example, the root -X- “VISION/SIGHT” in pattern 1 and stem 1 has the translation “to sight (see + thing seen); sight” whereas pattern 2 has the meaning of “see; eyesight”. How should I interpret the double meaning of P1S1 and how do I know which to use?

I am looking a little more into Ithkuil III syllable structure, and the words “permissible cluster” are used a few times, but I can’t seem to find the rules for what constitutes a permissible cluster, outside of what consonants are allowed to be geminated where. Can anyone help me?

https://preview.redd.it/xiltwpvulh6e1.png?width=1222&format=png&auto=webp&s=6bf35184be2aab200dbc661fb45a7cdc51d503e9

I know some of them are required and some optional but I don't know the specifics

Or are is the language so complicated that we can’t process it fast enough to maintain a conversation?

The TNIL (version 4) lexicon document contains certain reduplicative roots, which have caused some inconvenience and confusion among learners. To address this issue, I have proposed an initiative to replace these roots, as discussed in detail in the Lexicon-JSON GitHub repository. We invite you to participate in this important conversation on the topic of replacing all reduplicative roots. Your suggestions and insights are highly valued, and we encourage you to contribute to the discussion by following the link provided: Replacing all reduplicative roots. Thank you for your attention and participation.

Context: as a lover of Ithkuil, I'm currently coding a tiny web-app to help with building formatives. As you can imagine, it requires a careful reading and understanding of every information available on ithkuil.net

Given the complexity of the language, it is inevitable that a few mistakes sneak in. There is one, particularly, that is driving me nuts. You can find it in a table found in section 3.10, regarding "shortcut" forms. Specifically, look at the last column of the first row: it mentions "PRX Perspective". That's the problem. the abbreviation PRX refers to Extension, while Perspective refers to either M, G, N, or A abbreviations.

With the hope to make things visually clearer, I created a variant of the table found in 3.10, which you will find bellow.

https://preview.redd.it/99ia1du0av2e1.png?width=2246&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c8918a7a927b89db61fc444900ed1dbc7e668c4

I would be delighted if someone could help me resolve this apparent ambiguity.

In advance, thank you!

I'm currently working on reading through Ithkuil.net but I was wondering if there are any other resources out there I can use to learn Ithkuil v4.

hey all!

i made a utility kit for ithkuil text. it supports glossing words, viewing them in calligraphic and handwritting script, and searching for roots and affixes, all in a single interface. check it out!

https://v8.zsnout.com/ithkuil/kit

a long word glossed and scriptified

most everything from the script generator is supported, but registers will not work completely as expected. works best on desktop.

the tl;dr of how to use it is:

• type an ithkuil word to get a gloss and script version of it
• type a gloss-like thing to turn it into a word
  • separate gloss items with hyphens -
  • put a word in double quotes to search for a root
  • put a word in single quotes to search for an affix
  • you can also use three-letter abbreviations for affixes
  • join Ca segments with dots (MSS.PRX.G)
  • for a shortcut formative, put the Ca before the root

several words created using the \"unglossing\" feature

for more help on writing "unglosses", see https://github.com/zsakowitz/umpharesemsa?tab=readme-ov-file#generating-words. only read "Generating Words"; the rest of the page is intended to be used with a now-extinct discord bot. it does not cover root & affix searching.

more help text is included in the sidebar.

enjoy!

For those who don't know, the CSTC is a list of 218 sample sentences which serve to describe the grammar of any language ever, this includes both morphology and syntax.

Now, Ithkuil is as we know utterly infernal, so I sincerely won't expect anyone here to acheive this (neither am I capable), but if you consider yourself an Ithkuil pro, here are the 218 sample sentences It would be awesome if you provided interlineal glosses to each sentence, but anyway it'll suffice

Has anyone created a stack or series in some learning app for Ithkuil Script elements? I became curious because it seems better to plug in Examples displayed in the New Ithkuil grammar book. John Q often does not list ALL the grammar elements in an example word or sentence. its helpful to get the more complete picture.

Maybe he is thinking this is a way for people to investigate ithkuil further. Maybe not so well thought out, but I found it might make it a bit 'easier' to understand ithkuil in its associated script.

But that leaves one to understand the script and what grammar or letters it represents. I thought of creating a quiz on some app, but if someone already has done that, its all the better, why duplicate what has been done?

A simple example of a verb is:

zval
"dog"-OBS

Ithkuil docs say that "OBS" is meant as "I see / I perceive / I know", but it's not clear to me that "I" is literal here. What does "zval" mean as a sentence, or is it maybe not even a valid sentence? Would it be "there is a dog (a statement made by the speaker of the sentence based on their own perceptions)", or is it literally "I see a dog", or something else?

As it stands, there is a prohibition on machine generated Ithkuil content on this sub, and an exception for human glossed ML content. I believe there is broad agreement that this rule and exception prevents low-effort and low-quality posts, while allowing machine generated content that has been vetted by a competent person.

That rule and exception will remain in place for the foreseeable future.

However, a surprising number of posts in this sub are purely AI hype and speculation. I personally think that there are other subs more suited to that kind of content. Furthermore these posts are repetitive and for the most part exhibit a poor understanding of both Ithkuil and machine learning.

My inclination is to forbid hype-posting altogether, with an analogous exception to the ML content rule. That is, AI hype-posts would be permitted only if they contain a demonstration of an LLM that has been trained, prompted, or fine-tuned to produce well-formed Ithkuil.

View Poll

I’ve been thinking, what if LLM didn’t rely on human languages like English, but instead used *Ithkuil* as its native "thought" language?

Ithkuil is so detailed that it’s nearly impossible for humans to learn, but an AI wouldn’t have that problem. Imagine AI systems using Ithkuil to process and refine ideas with a depth that natural languages just can’t offer!

• Precision: Ithkuil can convey extremely nuanced meaning, which would help AI make more accurate decisions.

• Efficiency: AIs could communicate with each other faster and more clearly using a language built for logic and clarity.

But the problems are..

• **Translation**: Turning Ithkuil thoughts into "human" languages might bring back some of the ambiguity we’re trying to avoid.

• **Complexity**: The level of detail might slow things down for simpler tasks.

What do you think? Could Ithkuil help AI become more advanced, or is this idea too far-fetched?

Got it done this summer (mid-August), on my left forearm. I plan to do a lot more (all in Ithkuil). To start easily, it's just a phonetic transliteration. Next ones will be "real" Ithkuil sentences. What do you think? Do you spot any mistakes? (Not giving you the intended meaning on purpose).

https://preview.redd.it/oadh0duqndtd1.jpg?width=1388&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9908d2a30122cc0aed5813b774bd8fa140c83987

There are so many things I don't understand about Ithkuil. What is to be a name mean? Nothing can actually be a name, as that is a word to describe something.

Is this referencing a Name? or the word name... like this object is called x....or its too abstract for me.

https://www.ithkuil.net/newithkuil_02_morpho-phonology.htm#Sec2_4_3

So how would one construct a few examples like, "a streetcar named Desire"

would it be "to be the name" desire? would 'desire' be modified 'to be a name"?

Or the line "some folks call this a sling blade"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEmvNshtpXc&t=103s

"They called me 'Andy"

(from Tales of the City, where Ms. madrigal starts to tell the story of her transformation from "Andy" to 'madrigal". )

"Don't call me that"

Or "You can call me.....x, or you can call me x1, x2,x3,x4, ( I replaced x's with all the names given in this sequence. " its in the video clip....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCqh5ROtQRg

What about taxonomy? and various levels of classification?

The taxonomy of the reishi mushroom, also known as Ganoderma lucidum, is as follows:

• Kingdom: Fungi
• Phylum: Basidiomycota
• Class: Agaricomycetes
• Order: Polyporales
• Family: Polyporaceae
• Genus: Ganoderma
• Species: Ganoderma lucidum

Thanks maybe If I saw some more concrete examples, it might make more sense fo me.

I don't understand if "to be a name" would that be applied to each taxononic class? or be applied to only the actual name? or both? How about the difference between actually describing the name, verses actually using the name? Say describing the reishi species, vs just talking about Reishi using the species name, or even its common name.

This is reishi....

Reishi is amazing.

this is called reishi.

Have fun translating!: "As I, a clown with my knees on the black office chair and leaning over the back, spin myself by pushing off of two other chairs around me with my hand, I hear the whirring of the bathroom fan in the adjacent room oscillating between my left and right ears."

Illustration:

https://preview.redd.it/zqce6mh3u7qd1.png?width=263&format=png&auto=webp&s=dff81132234ae3fd504dbb60701e857a66b50d2d