With next year's move to Amazon Prime, I am asking will NASCAR do a Thursday Night Football situation where they use a twitch channel and stream the prime races on a channel for non-prime subscribers because I am not wanting to pay all this money and miss the races that are on prime.

We’ve had many Motorsport scandals. Spingate, Crashgate, Spygate, etc. What do we name this one?

Byron has been a top 4 driver this season, so has Bell. Look at wins, top 5s, top 10s, and average finish, both deserve to be in the championship race but the system messed everything up. NASCAR should be taking all the heat for this, not Byron, Bell, Bubba, Chevy, Toyota, etc.

It's a shame the drivers and teams are put in this situation in the first place.

Edit: I know NASCAR has gotten a lot of the blame for this but they deserve 100% of the blame, it's their stupid points system that caused the race manipulation. If the points system was fair the championship 4 would be Larson, Byron, Bell and Reddick.

• Top 12 in regular season points are in

• Top 4 in stage wins + race wins points (playoff points) not in the top 12 in points advance

• Each round, the top 11, top 7, top 3 in points automatically advance, the driver with the most stage wins and points by race win advance in each round. Stage points would be tie breaker.

This I think helps to maintain a high level performance the entire season, but allows for those game seven moments. I’m a fan of Penske and specifically Blaney, and even I don’t want teams getting a two week break before the finale.

Additionally, I’d like to see playoff points for wins and stage wins accumulated in the round of 8 seed the final four. So that it’s not just a heads up race and so that the round of 8 is not a break for teams that win the first race the round of 8.

Ryan Blaneys 13th win would tie Ryan Newman 13 wins in the #12 car. Obviously a win would also give him back to back championships and guarantee his place into the nascar HOF.

Bobby Allison has the most wins all time in the 12 car at 25. A reachable number for Blaney.

The goal of the payoffs was never about rewarding the best driver, it was always about creating storylines and driving online engagements and rating. The shenanigans people are complaining about. The penalties deciding who advances. The fact the most dominate driver not winning the championship. These are not bugs of a system to be worked out, they're a feature.

Controversy sells and NASCAR has a product it wants to sell

I’m still a new-ish fan and don’t understand. Thanks in advance.

I KNOW - im smoking crazy stuff and ill gladly share. So let's get past the fact that it will never happen and dream a little bit on the interwebs.

NASCAR as it has become, I think we all can agree has become something else than what it was when we got into it. Supposedly that is good. Evolution of the sport. That's what we as fans are told. Some of us echo that sentiment, but is it true? Maybe in some aspects. Safety for certain. Trickle down engineering that makes its way back to street cars. Embracing E85, I'm from Illinois, we make that! I think oval racing is still the best spectator package, and the strongest part of our "county fair" roots. So many people, I think, don't understand that. And things like Rovals - Daytona, Charlotte, Indy - wherever else.. LOVE THEM. That's bang for the buck as far as in-person race attendance goes. Not to mention how much easier it is to televise a "stadium" as opposed to other venues of racing. Still much love for anything that makes noise and goes fast.

This is where the love letter ends. Clearly this era and method of determining a champion has run it course. The drivers seem to have had enough of it as much as the fans. I have maybe 3, real life nascar friends. And between the 4 of us, the is no winning when it comes to a solution. There are wonderful data people out there who have provided us with windows into alternate dimensions - Here is who would have won X year under Y rules packages = spreadsheet of wonder. Mark Martin gets a few well deserved cups under different rules packages. Other people win... besides Sr and Johnson. The legend of our sport is determined by these things. The narratives right now are Joey # 3? Blaney Back2Back? Reddick #1? Byron #1? (Im going for Joey #3) And then go ahead and pile on all what we know has happened this season. What each of their holistic analyses are. I've read quite of few of your posts, my fellow r/NASCAR denizens. And I think each of you are 100% correct in your assessments. To which I'll add - I just want to watch some good racing!!!!

I think NASCAR does not know how to fix this. I think US as fans have no clue, but we have some damn good ideas. Would it not stand to reason that the DRIVERS themselves have been dreaming of a better system this whole time? I got good money that says if NASCAR went to them, closed door and said - map it out for us one time - that they'd have it done in an afternoon. The drivers themselves could and at this point should - determine for themselves the system for which they will compete under. I'd like to think they'd come up with a regular season points system and some form of championship determining system that is fair to themselves. And it would be scheduling and marketing ambiguous agnostic. NASCAR, the sponsors, the teams, and the tracks still do their own thing. NASCAR still keeps the score but the drivers are the ones who establish how it stacks up.

AND THEN - let's kick it up a notch! Form a Council of Crew Chiefs to determine where NASCAR has the cars themselves less competitive, determine what areas of development should be opened up to address them, and then allow them some more - at the factory level - so it's cant be pay-to-win. All Chevys, Fords, Yotas get it straight from the source. I'd like to see - given a bit more open development - what the makes would throw on their cars vs the other makes. We know what parts but with wider leeway would we see that LeMans spoiler on the Camaros? Canards? Massive diffusers? Make them look even more RACE CAR! (You know since they wont make them out of real cars anymore, might as well go the other way.)

And here's where we go to Mars. - I'd like to see us, one time, do like some of the other series and run all 3 at the same time. Daytona.. Sebring.. Not sure where else we could. But That's my one wish. To see Trucks and Xfinity and Cup all out there. I'm a fan of IMSA and they don't seem to have any more incidents over than what a NASCAR race otherwise has given the disparity of speed between the classes.

It's been a great season, even if my guys at Trackhouse didn't win it all, I had a great time with what they did get. I got the Suarez Atlanta shirt. Ross just won the other week and my oldest boy was wearing my Hail Melon shirt when he did. SVG next year. LFG! #Logano3X

You didn't do anything ergrgous, that one stings for people just doing their job. Hear me out.

Take the bathroom attendend for example, you remind them to clean up after themselves and expect a tip whilst also cleaning the "stuff". Nobody wins. Period. You're penalty is a "tip" from NASCAR for doing your job. Just in the form of a toilet papered up, shat in all over stall you are expected to clean up in then they fire your busser ass because you didn't put the right flavor of soap in the dispenser. Didn't happen to me or anything, just an analogy. Have fun in at big Al's watching Joey win another one!

DBC Fan

He only missed advancing by 7. He would’ve gotten 5 playoff points for being the regular season champion. He could’ve gotten up to 8 more in the race. Also Chastain and Dillon probably would’ve drove on past Byron because the points situation would be different and Larson would’ve had a chance to advance over him.

I know it’s all hypothetical but do you think anyone on that team regrets Larson’s decision?

Not Playoff Standings (Round of 8 Race 3/3)

1. Chris Buescher 4090 [+55]
2. Carson Hocevar 4068 [+35]
3. Kyle Busch 4047 [+12]
4. Bubba Wallace 4036 [+1]

NOT CHAMPIONSHIP 4 CUTOFF

5. Justin Haley 4035 [-1]

6. Ross Chastain 4028 [-8]

7. Corey LaJoie 4028 [-8]

8. Austin Dillon 4005 [-31]

Definatly for me it would be one of the Truex throwbacks or the Pickel Car...

Free 100 points total for the week, enter the name for the corresponding day in the promo code box for 25 points. (Today is Logano, tomorrow is Reddick, etc)

Scrap the playoffs. Season long points. Keep the 3 stages, but no caution thrown at the completion of stage 1 and 2.

Points paid for finishing positions:

Last to 31st - 1 point

30th to 21st - start with 2 points for 30th and increment by 1 point per position

20th to 11th - start with 13 points for 20th and increment by 2 points per position

10th to 6th - start with 34 points for 10th and increment by 3 points per position

5th to 2nd - start with 51 points for 5th and increment by 5 points per position

1st - 80 points

Stage 1 and 2:

10 points for the winner and counting down to 10th place, which receives 1 point

Pole position:

Pole winner gets 2 points

Other:

Driver to lead the most laps gets 2 points.

I think we need to step back and appreciate the kind of racing this playoff format has given us. We’ve seen a few quite a few races over the last couple months with great racing throughout the field. I fear that if we go back to a standard racing type championship, then the winner will be determined with 3-6 weeks left in the season and all the great races will be behind us.

It might not be perfect, and I understand Larson fans might be upset. He is a great racer but given the playoff format, maybe Hendricks and Kyle just didn’t put together the best car to win the championship. I don’t love that Logano gets in after a mediocre season either, but Penske seemed to step up in the end.

One thing that I would like to see is the playoff races be pulled from a hat or something. You can’t have 3 different manufacturers and 16 different drivers all with different strengths and weaknesses, go out and compete at the same track for the championship. I think the playoff tracks could be somewhat randomized.

Anyways, hope for a good Phoenix race. That’s my 2 cents that nobody asked for