Hoi zäme,

I would like to ask for directions about HYSA options here in Switzerland. We are planning to set aside 6 monthly expenses + our yearly deductible (+ up to 10%, max.700CHF) and are kind of lost.

The goal obviously is more liquidity than on-market, but they don't necessarily need to be as available as a normal bank account as I plan to keep 3k "cash" just in case.

Any recommendations? We are talking about roughly 40k CHF.

Thank you in advance!

Hi guys, I just went to my advisor today at Mobiliar to check all our insurances.

We (couple, 30y/o, no kids, no car, no apt/house) have Hausrat-/Haftpflicht for 527.- (345.- Haftpflicht, 157.- Haftpflicht). It's just a pretty standard, normal insurance with the usual coverages, except we included our Ebikes because we ride them daily against damage and theft and we also included electronical devices, because something usually breaks every year, and this makes sense quite soon (for example my battery of my eBike broke 2 years ago. Insurance covered 800.- of the 900.- replacement cost...). So that might explain some of the higher price.

He even mentioned that we have the -25% discount the advisor can give me, and that's when I realized we would be paying 702.- without the discount?!?!

So how much are you paying? I don't want to overoptimise, because I know him for a long time, everything is set up and my experience so far has been perfect, however when I look at this, it seems like we're definitely overpaying? But change everything to save 150.- or something a year? Bigger fish to catch, no?

For the Rechtschutz, we're paying 246.- a year. I also have a 20% discount on that, because of my union I'm part of as a teacher. Part of the reason I'm with Mobiliar, I just happened to know him because he was my neighbour as a child.

We also talked about Vorsorge, 3a and whatnot, but he knew that I'm active on Viac (he is as well!), but he still mentioned their new product. The "Prämienbefreiung bei Erwerbsunfähigkeit" sounds interesting in case of a IV-case, but in total it's just another insurance trap to avoid right.

I have been on DEGIRO for a while now and I'm happy with it. But I only ever used it to buy specific stocks. Now, I'm looking into simplifying things and many of you recommend VT.

Problem here: I think I can't buy VT on DEGIRO.

Some of you must also use DEGIRO. What would be a good alternative to VT? Or would you suggest moving to IBKR?

In Switzerland, capital gains are tax-free for private investors, but taxes when you are considered a professional investor.

To be considered a professional investor, the tax authorities evaluate 5 criteria. One of them is the "transaction volume":

The transaction volume during a calendar year does not exceed five times the investment portfolio value at the beginning of the calendar year

I'm wondering the following: does the volume only include the sale and purchase of shares, or does it also include currency conversions, and movement across bank accounts?

Example: my employer awards me shares on a Charles Schwab account. I sell them for XX dollars. I send the dollars to IBKR and convert them to CHF. I then withdraw the funds into my swiss bank account. Does this count as:

1. A single transaction worth XX dollars
2. Two transactions (sale of shares, conversion to CHF) worth 2*XX dollars
3. 4 transactions (sale of shares, conversion to CHF, 2 account movements) worth 4*XX dollars

I also welcome recommendations on tax advisors familiar with these questions, ideally in VD.

Thank you!

Hey Guys, i had alot of “betreibungen” and accomplished to get rid off them. Does that mean that i have a positive “bonität” again?

Asking cause i need urgently a car and my only chance to get one is trough leasing.

Hi all,

I recently got a Cornercard with 1.5 % cashback. Was wondering if there is any way to pay my rent through the credit card and therefore benefit of the 1.5 % cashback? There is a way to scan bills with QR in the app, but that is subject to a fee of 1.2 % and I am not sure if that would result in the cashback.

My landlord is Apleona.

Thank you!

Hello all,

I have a small amount (<10k) in a Vested Benefits Account and have recently left Switzerland to move back to US with my Swiss partner. I was looking to cash out in full the 2nd pillar and I see that i have to confirm that "I am permenantly leaving Switzerland and that from now on I will not work in Switzerland"

For the moment, the plan is to stay in the US, but as my partner is Swiss, there is a chance we may move back one day. Would there be a problem if I cash out this compte de libre passage and then if in 15 years I try to move back/get a job, will it be blocked?

We may also try to buy a house in the next few years so maybe it would be better to just wait and do it that way ?

I appreciate any insight. I've been trying to research this and am getting qutie confused!

Not sure if I understood the offer fully or is it a fantastic offer? In latter case, why is such large, strong bank offering such good rates? Are they collapsing? Reminds me of CHF 150 account opening bonus offer that we saw with CS in end-2022.

https://www.ubs.com/ch/en/private/investments/ubs-duo-savings.html

• Min. investment 20,000
• Min. term one year
• Half of it earns 1.2% guaranteed as a fixed deposit
• Half is invested in index or balanced fund (as per risk tolerance), at no cost. No commissions, no product cost (TER).

If above is correct understanding, this is a great offer... unless, I'm missing something 🤔

How can banks for fixed deposits offer more money than the SNB interest rate and why are they doing it? It looks much better than the 0.6 % other banks are offering.

Specifically I am asking because of Cembra Money Bank and wiLLBe (especially wiLLBe)?

https://willbe-invest.com/de/willbe/festgeldkonto/willbe-festgeld

https://apps.cembra.ch/mysavings/de/kassenobligationen/

I am looking to put some money there for my retired parents as they do not want to invest in stocks (please do not recommend VT and chill). They have quite a large amount in their emergency fund.

I thought contributing some amount monthly there and so they can withdraw it every month and again pay it into the fixed deposit. So the money would be split in twelve parts, so they would not need to wait for 12 months to get a fair amount of money.

Is there a catch regarding wiLLBe? Why do they pay such high interest rates?

Hi guys today ive learned that degiro has the lowest fees in the market regarding neraly everything in the stock market. So do you guys know why i should stick with swissquote?

What are the most common ETFs to invest in living in Switzerland? I am depositing into the app CHF currency.

Looking for world index & US economy ETFs

Hi all,

first time poster, I'm a 28M with double citizenship, have most of my savings in bonds and treasuries and have now around 100k to put in some bland S&P ETFs.

My bank tells me I can't because I am a US person, no matter if the ETFs are US based, EU based or anywhere else, no bueno. How does this work? Is it because of US-Siwss regulation or the bank not wanting to go through the paperwork? Doesn't me having a Swiss passport allow me to be treated as a Swiss citizen instead of a US one?

Would really appreciate any input you guys have in the matter.

Hello. I have a question regarding pillar 3 savings. Does anyone know what should be the process of withdrawing money from pillar 3 to avoid taxation in the country I will move to (Poland) .

I am looking for asset diversification of my portfolio.

I haven't been considering multiple assets until I discovered leveraged ETFs like RSSB or NTSX, which offer a good exposition to bonds, so I do not need to hold them directly because of lower yield than equity (also for tax reasons).

RSST seems like a very good product where I get exposure to managed futures and the S&P500. So to reduce the exposition to american stocks, I would just add a small amount of VXUS to my portfolio.

Now I see how RSSB works with low volatility of bonds, so there is a very small risk for a margin call of the fund.

However I do not see, how funds like RSST or GDE, which consist of volatil assets like gold or managed futures work with such an amount of leverage?

Also in comparison to VT how much would you calculate as expected return on average for RSST?

Say if i count VT as 6% net, is it realistic to expect 6% net after taxes from RSST or should it be lower/higher? The TER for RSST with around 1% is very high, so I doubt that, except if the leverage can help to get over these costs.

Also as I see it RSST should pay high amount of dividends, so it would not be very tax efficient? How much is the dividend for RSST?

Would it be better to directly hold DBMF instead of RSST for expected return/lower volatility?

Since DBMF is an absolute return strategy, with how much net return would you calculate assuming a marginal tax rate of 25%? Is 4% yearly realistic after taxes? Also DBMF has very high costs with around 1% TER.

New "0%" ETF with saving plan on Neon, as of October.

- Xtrackers Galaxy Physical Bitcoin ETC Securities (CH1315732250)

- Xtrackers Galaxy Physical Ethereum ETC Securities (CH1315732268)

It's weird on this list they removed Invesco MSCI World ESG Climate Paris Aligned UCITS ETF Acc (IE000V93BNU0) from saving plan.

The list: https://static-assets.neon-free.ch/website/media/neon_invest_stocks_etfs.pdf

I read and hear very often that salary will increase and peak between 40 and 50 years. For me is really hard to imagine, that I will earn much more in the next 10-20 years. I just can‘t believe that every older person earns more than I do. Even if I look on some statistics about salaries, I don‘t really see such a significant increase on this age ranges. What is your take on that? What kind of salary increase in percentage can be expected between 30 and 40 years, for someone with an BSc and MSc degree in technical field?

Hello guys, I live in CH since few years now. I have enough money to put the 20% downpayment of the apartments I'm looking to buy (range around 800-880k).

Actually I have even more, I could put down 30% if "forced".

However, even 30% seems not enough if I follow the affordability criteria of 5% interest rate, which is totally crazy for me.

Note that I earn decently (120k + 3k bonus) so I would consider myself middle class.

I didn't talk yet with any bank but I was wondering how hard would be getting a mortgage if you don't comply with the 5% rule.

I have a gf who works and we have long term plans together, however she moved here recently and she is kinda broke (not her fault, she started her career now). So if we want to sum up our salaries then the mortgage would be in charge of both of us which is something I don't like.

What's your Pov?

PS the apartments I look for are new. If a building is new maybe their requisites are lowered?

I hold some options (non-exchange traded) in several ventures in CH, which I invested in at the early stage or where I was employed as an advisor. I was always under the impression, that those options are a pretty useful instrument to keep the governance and the cap table simple, to protect my interest without holding stocks directly and exposing myself to extra taxation before the money round.

But recently I came across this ranking from Not Optional. It says that stock options in CH suck ass compared to all EU countries and come with some strike price and tax timing challenges. Huh?

https://www.notoptional.eu/rankings.html

I am not very familiar with Swiss laws on options and was wishfully thinking that stock options here are more or less similar to the US system. I would appreciate correction and education on this topic.

What am I missing? Do I need to worry and structure future angel investments and advisory contracts differently?

Hi everyone,

I am currently considering buying a property in Switzerland, and I have some doubt as to the best strategy for financing the house. I currently have around 22-23% of the value of the house available.

My idea is to put down the minimum 20%, then pay off the mortgage as slowly as possible to 33% over 15 years, while investing any excess cash in equities as early as possible.

I am assuming that it is better to use as little capital as possible on the house, as any extra cash that would reduce the interest on a 1.6-1.7% loan would be better invested in a market ETF like VT, which would return around 5% on average.

My question is: is there any advantage that I am missing in bringing in more than the minimum 20% that would be more advantageous to the strategy described above?

Thanks a lot for your advice!

Hello everyone,

Thanks and looking forward for the advices. As you can see in the title I recently graduated from the University and landed a job at the Big4. With the pay range of 80-90k. Here are some more details about my spending:

• Rent 1100.- (shared Flat with GF)
• Car payment 920.- a month (it is a golf, nothing fancy)
• Food cost roughly 300.- a month
• Insurance 400 a month
• Phone subscription 25.- a month

First, I was planning to save at least 3 months of salary but what should I do after this. I thought 3rd pillar is a thing and you can deduct from the tax. Further than this, I have no clue how to invest my money smartly.

The Swiss National Bank (SNB) reduced its key interest rate from 1.75% to 1% in 3 steps this year, the last time in late September. As a result of these changes and because we (and most of the world) anticipate another rate cut in December 2024, we will adjust the interest rates on neon Spaces accordingly. The new adjustments will be carried out in two steps.

As of 1 November 2024, the following interest rates apply:

0.10% on your Spaces for deposits of up to 25'000 CHF

0.00% on your Spaces for deposits from 25'000 CHF upward

As of 1 December 2024, the following interest rates apply:

0.00% on your Spaces for deposits of up to 25'000 CHF

0.00% on your Spaces for deposits from 25'000 CHF upward

This is messed up. Does this mean that those who have been using spaces throughout the year, will get 0% interest rate at the end of the year?

Hi,

I got into contact with a personal finance advisor because I recently reached the point where I can save a lot of money, and I'd like to invest it. But I already got burned once with a shitty 3rd pillar contract (assurance contract with guaranteed payout that would have gotten me 30k less that what I invested), so I'd like to cross check information before signing anything. I'm asking here because I'm basically finance-illiterate, so any help/advice is much appreciated.

So here is the proposal he gave me: transfer my shitty guaranteed 3a pillar to an invested one, with a monthly contribution of ~CHF500. Create a second 3a, in a bank, where I can contribute any amount monthly, also invested. Finally, create an investing account for short-term investments. All of this is to hopefully buy an appartment in a few years. Does the strategy itself look alright?

All investments are done through the swisslife portal, to managed investment funds, so I guess it's a rather safe approach. The kicker is, they take 3.2% on all deposits on any account, which is rather expensive in my opinion, but in exchange I have access to big hedge funds that wouldn't typically be available for an everyday person. They also curate funds and remove underperforming ones, and give advices/explanations for neophytes.

Does it sound sane? Without going into too much detail, does that sound like I'm getting scammed? I'll be happy to answer any question to the best of my knowledge.

(Oh and the advisor himself gets a cut from those 3.2%).

Edit: looks like I was right to ask for a second opinion, thank you all for your input. I'll continue my search for a good financial advisor then.

Hi, I read from the poor swiss blog that it's a good idea to invest in these funds ( in one of the comments).

It seems to average very high returns per year on an average and the returns are also tax free.

Looking at the data, it seems like returns are 10% plus.

To me this seems too good to be true. Am I missing something obvious in this idea?

Also, where is the best place to buy or invest in it? Is it better to buy DRPF on interactive brokers or buy from a swiss broker instead?

Thank you so much in advance!

Hey everyone,

Me and my wife were saving for a few years to have the necessary equity to purchase our own apartment. However due to some bureaucratic reasons we wouldn’t be able to do this in the next 3-5 years. So having the cash sitting is by default the worst strategy.

We are usually maxing out the 3A with investing it in stocks. I also invest from time to time in ETFs (I hold VOO) through IBKR.

But I don’t know what’s a sensible strategy to invest a larger sum of money into ETFs/bonds/savings accounts. What would be the best strategy in this case? Should we just lump sum, or spread it over a couple of months, invest part in ETFs, part in some other funds?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hey I have seen that one of the easiest ways to invest into real estate is to buy REITs. No exposure to debt but a general basket of diversified and managed estates all across a region/country would still offer a good opportunity. Now I see this kind of investment idea working very well in a portfolio together with 3a, stocks and ETFs. And since in this sector (of real estate) I don‘t want any exposure to currency risk I would prefer to have a REIT with a focus on Switzerland (and based in CHF). Any ideas with big REITs that have a low TER and have a good overall performance? A first research from my side has brought me to find two REITs of UBS called Sima and Anfos which are pretty good though with high TERs of 0.77% p.a. each. Or is that normal for a REIT?

Good afternoon,

I would like to hear your opinions on this etf:

iShares Edge MSCI World Quality Factor UCITS ETF

Ter: 0.25%

Are there any "better" quality world etf?

I'm a beginner but as far I can understand the quality factor has always outperformed every world etf.

Thank you

I just got a new job offer, and one of the benefits is the choice between company car and car allowance. That's something new for me, so I'm not sure what to choose. Here a summary of the conditions:

Company Car:

• Budget 63kCHF (net)
• Audi, VW, BMW or Mercedes among the company fleet (CO2 efficiency > C)
• Fuel paid for business and private use within Switzerland
• Car leased for 36 or 48 months depending on the total km
• Tyres, service, insurance, ... all paid

Car Allowance:

• 1'350 CHF per month (gross, taxable)

Current personal situation:

• I have a 4 years old car (current value around 25kCHF) which I use only for the weekend, vacations, and emergencies
• I have the GA and I commute to work with the train, since I live quite far from workplace and I don't want to drive in the traffic every day (and I want to save the planet)

What would you choose? What is more convenient from financial point of view? How it works from taxes point of view the company car choice?

Hello everyone,

What’s the best strategy to buy an house/apartment? Let’s share our thoughts.

Use 20% or more of your own cash? Use 10% of your own cash and 10% of your 2 Pilars because of the low interest rate? If you're married, should you split half your money between the two accounts? Use 10% of your cash and use all of your 2 Pilars? Use 10% of your cash and pledge 2 Pilars? Use your 3 Pilar? Pledge it? …

Thanks

Hi all! Maybe it’s a very basic question, but I can’t stop thinking about it and as someone new to finance and investing trying to figure out.

So far my conclusion is that in Switzerland by renting an apartment and investing regularly in ETFs for example would generate you more money in a long run (like 20-30 years) than buying one with a mortgage.

What’s your take on this? And could you please elaborate on the way you think or make calculations so I can learn from you ☺️

Thanks!

I’d always avoided Saxo due to its costs. But I’ve noticed that Saxo trading fees for US stocks / ETFs are now at the level of IB, plus apparently they now have a wider selection (VT etc)

They also have a lot of ETFs which you can auto-invest with for free: seems like all Swiss-listed but includes eg. S&P 500 & Nasdaq 100

Could start to now be a great option for Swiss investors vs the classic choice of IB?

Certainly I’m tempted

https://www.home.saxo/en-ch/rates-and-conditions/stocks/commissions

https://www.home.saxo/en-ch/products/autoinvest