Looks like across Swiss finance subreddits, VT and VOO are universally recommended ETFs to buy to track Worldwide and US markets.

Why aren't Irish domiciled funds like VUSA, VUAA recommended? The only downside i see is 0.04% extra TER which is negligible even for 9 figure net worths (in the grand scheme of things). The dividend WHT is already 15% without having to fill additional forms. And the best part, no Estate tax concerns.

Am i missing something?

In the last years there has been more discussion (even some film) on the possibility of USA falling into a civil war. And if Trump had been killed, it would arguably been likely to trigger the war at that moment.

Therefore, since many of us are exposed to USA through VT, VOO and many other ways, what should we do? What would be safest movement if a war seems really about to start? What if it has already started?

Anyone of you guys FIREd with a family? I mean I have a non working wife and a kid and I'm looking for ways to fire and get the hell out of Dodge! I work in software and currently have a nice job but it's not enough, I want my time (life) back!

Is there a good reason to FIRE in Switzerland, unless you want to stay there for other reasons such as family, friends or quality of life?

Is there any country more expensive than CH to FIRE? The living cost is high, but AHV cost vs benefits also seems very high in this case.

How does the expense compare to e.g. US which has a much larger FIRE community? I sort of know the answer (it's expensive) but interested in opinions / subtleties / success stories

Hello, I just started my FIRE journey and by doing some calculation so I came to this possible situation:
Age: 27, FIRE age: 45, years to work: 18
Yearly Expenses: 60k

• At 45: Go FIRE get the money by dividends + selling ETFs until I'm 60 (15 years @ 60k = 900k needed)
• At 60: Get money by withdrawing pillar 3a + 3b (According to my calculations it's enough for the 5 years)
• At 65: Get money by pension fund + 2nd pillar + what's left in the investment portfolio

I don't have any intention to leave a big amount of money in inheritance.

Does it make sense? Yearly Expenses might drop by ~20% as our kids would be old enough

I read about the 4% rule but apparently it's used when you want to keep your wealth at a steady level which I don't want since I want to use the money to go FIRE and later there would be all the different pillars

Has anyone had experience with Piggy Switzerland CH?

Am considering putting my spare cash there but want to be advised if this is safe (hq is in LT) and whether this is the best option for flexible savings?

Thanks

Bonjour!

I'm a US FIRE hopeful now based in CH, and I'm seeking advice on a specific situation. I work at a UN partner organization where my salary and retirement contributions are 100% tax-free—both in CH and in the US—thanks to my CDL status. However, I am likely still subject to other taxes, like capital gains in the US.

I’m quite familiar with managing my FIRE portfolio in the US, but now, given my unique situation here, I’m looking for advice on how to best set myself up for success in CH over the next 5-10 years. Just to note, suggestions involving giving up my US passport or relinquishing citizenship are not on the table—I have too much invested in the US for that to be an option.

I have a local bank account and recently opened an IBKR account, so any tips or pitfalls to avoid there would be greatly appreciated. I have funds ready to invest, but I’m unsure where to start and what specific considerations I need to keep in mind.

Thank you! Merci! Danke! Grazie!

My situation:
Because of a disability, I'll have to live of a disability rent, starting in the upcoming months.
I live currently in an apartment which I own. This apartment is woth around CHF 300'000.

I've always only worked part-time and with that never payed a highe amounts into the AHV (disability/rent insurance). So my rent will be quite low.

My initial idea now, was to move to a country with a cheaper cost of living (and would lose my EL) but I could sell my apartment and could then reinvest it for a different form of investment to create a passive income. (To improve my overall income.)

I know, that to rent my apartment out, would be kind of a passive income, but it also could be annoyieng to manage from far away. Also I would have to manage investments for renovations and repairs. Also there could be holes for when the apartment isn't rented out. So I would like to have a "more passive" income.

Does anyone know what the best options for my case would be and what amount of passive income I could expect from this options?

edit: typo

Hi all,

Does anyone have or know of a calculator online (or excel) for total house owning cost? Most online calculators I can find don't include things like reserved requirements (1% of house value) etc etc

Thanks in advance!

Would love some guidance on how to best FIRE in Switzerland as an immigrant living in Switzerland. Currently on B permit but going through the process of getting a swiss passport as I'm married to a swiss person.

I've got a good income but am pretty clueless with investing and making my money work for me.

Current situation: 40 , married with 2 young children. My investments are spread across several countries and currencies but have converted everything to CHF for simplicity.

2nd pillar + pension in home country : 270kCHF Investments with 2 investment banks + company shares I've accumulated: 787k CHF

Property net value (minus mortgage) : 580kCHF.

Cash: 120k CHF in bank

Currently I estimate to save 100k CHF cash per annum post tax. And conservatively another 50k CHF in cash/shares.

What would you do with the annual savings? Continue to pump it into the funds I already have through the banks or something else? I am paying fees for the banks for sure but is it really better to do it via IBKR I keep seeing mentioned on this site? Honestly, I don't have the time or passion to continually read up on shares / stock performance etc hence went with the Banks to manage it. I also have the option to transfer money into my home currency and put it on a term deposit for 5% interest pa. I pay a lot of income tax already so not sure it's good to have additional income versus growing a portfolio.

Ideally I would like to FIRE by 55 ( in 15 years). What's the best way to set up for that?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I tried to purchase ETFs via Postfinance and i got a popup mentioning only for qualified traders? Would I be able to buy these anyway? At Postfinance this would be investors that have atleast 500k.

Current situation at 32 years old:

• 133k in ETFs (after yesterday’s crash), 75-80% VT, 20-25% SMMCHA
• 36k 3a in VIAC 99% Global (no custom strategy)
• 66k LPP
• 96k net salary
• Yearly investments: 22-25k ETFs, full 3a

Last year I found out about LPP buy-ins in my company. I thought it was a good idea and bought 6k, had around 1k tax reduction. From my point of view, it was 1k that I could put on ETFs, get a tax reduction every year, and fill up my LPP for my retirement, but also if I wanted to buy a flat/house in 10 years or something, I could use my LPP also for 10% of the fee of the good. Even with calculating a 10% tax for when I’d withdrawn the LPP, I thought it was a good deal all around.

That was my calculations. Now, I’ve having second thoughts on if I should do this again this year, or should I just max my ETFs, since I keep reading on this sub that it’s not a good idea to do LPP buy-ins at my age.

What did I miss in my calculations that makes LPP buy-ins not ideal in my case?

Hello everyone,

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Thank you if you've read this far :)

Hi there! I've always been a fan of the S&P 500 indexes, and a significant portion of my investments are in them. However, I'm becoming increasingly concerned about what I believe to be an AI bubble, so I'm looking for an S&P 500 fund that excludes microchip or tech companies.

I recently came across the ProShares S&P 500 Ex-Technology ETF (ticker: NYSEARCA: SPXT), which seems to be what I'm looking for. However, I can't find a list of the companies excluded from this ETF. Does anyone know where I can find this information?

Additionally, do you have any suggestions for alternatives to SPXT? (Note: I'm not interested in the S&P 500 Equal Weight ETF.) Any other recommendations would be appreciated!

Salut à vous, je me permets de vous demandez si vous auriez un tutoriel, un contact ou bien encore une agence avec des bons prix pour faire sa déclaration fiscale. Je voudrais, si possible, apprendre à pouvoir le faire moi-même, donc un tutoriel (vidéo ou pas) serait le meilleur.

Merci à vous !

I have been using the preset "Global" strategy from VIAC but don't like the 40% focus on Switzerland so I created my own and wanted some input.

Here is my setup:
35% Swisscanto World ex CH - IPF
35% Swisscanto World ex CH hedged - IPF
15% Swisscanto Emerging Markets
7% Swisscanto SMI (SPI 20)
5% Swisscanto Europe ex CH
2% Swisscanto SPI Extra
1% Cash

Let me know what you think and if there is anything I should change. Thanks

I hope this is the right subreddit for my question. I'm planning to do some angel investing, not huge sums, maybe around 10k a year. I was wondering how these kinds of investments are taxed in Switzerland. Do the 10k get reported as wealth for the wealth tax? If so, how do you evaluate the value of those 10k over time as they can change while the startup grows or possibly fails? Also, if one day I sell my shares for 25k, how is the 15k difference taxed? Is it considered income, or is it treated like a capital gain from stocks and therefore not taxed? What else do I need to consider?

Hey everyone I just graduated and find this sub very inspiring. I was wondering if anyone can point me to some resources to learn more about personal investing? Especially in connection with taxes and AHV (2a and 3a). Specifically if you have any books, articles or other similar resources.

Thanks in advance

Hi there

Throw away account to protect my privacy.

About me
I'm Swiss male in late 20s looking for how to invest my savings of around 130k CHF. I work as a software developer in the Zurich area. Single and no kids, no house or car or any big financial commitment of that sort.

Some stats
I have around 130k in CHF of savings from the last couple of years. Additionally during the pandemic I bought and since diamond handed around 40k worth of stocks, some of which are down 90% and will probably stay that way and some of which have stayed flat. I don't have much experience in investing / financial planning, other than wsb-trading back then, that's why I have turned away from the stock market for many years now, but now I wish to return.
Currently from my 100% position and some side gigs, I am able to set aside around 4500 CHF each month.

My goals
Like most of you I plan to retire early. In addition I'm currently progressing in my career to become a fully remote dev in a couple years, so I can leave Switzerland and live abroad while working for a Swiss or European/American company. Once I find a place a like I would like to buy a house there and settle down. So most likely a EU country.

Where I need advice/opinions
I would like to know what you think is a good distribution of markets/etfs to invest in. Since my bad experiences during the pandemic I am always a bit worried about buying in at the wrong time and holding through years of downturn in the markets. But on the other hand having basically all my wealth in cash is obviously hurting my financial and life goals, so I would like to get some opinions and insights on how people in similar positions and with similar goals as me are handling it.

Thanks for a lot for any of your valuable input. I really appreciate it.

Hi folks, i know here we are very much VT and chill, but I don't necessarily like the high % that it invests in the US market, I'd rather have a second ETF World that excludes the USA so I can have a portfolio a bit more equally weighted. Do you have any suggestions of ETFs?

In your simulations, how do you folks calculate the the difference between gross and net investment income to be ?

Lets just say that you want 80k CHF/y - at a standard 4% withdrawal, that is 2M CHF in the bank + a random town in Vaud

As far as I know, you have to pay:

• AVS/First pillar --> ~4.1 k (from https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.03.e )
• Income taxes --> 13.4 k (from https://swisstaxcalculator.estv.admin.ch/ )
• Capital taxes --> 13.6 k (from https://swisstaxcalculator.estv.admin.ch/ )

So you planned for 80k, but you bring 50k home. That is a 38% tax rate !

A friend of mine paid in advance for a service from a company physically based in Switzerland. The owner is from abroad but living here over 20 years. My friend paid out almost 5000 CHF in cash to them in good faith having agreed the work that was to be done. They got a receipt and a business partner/employee of the company witnessed the cash being handed over.

Long story short, the person delayed and delayed, refused to do any of the promised work, and would not pay back any of the money. The company is a GmbH.

If my friend initiates a Betreibung, and this person doesn't pay it, is there any way for them to get their money back? (I don't want to state exactly what kind of business it is as this could get even nastier for my friend - the business owner is an aggressive type with nothing to lose in life).

Will calling them with the threat of the Betreibung be of any use?

I've been paying into all 3 pillars for 4 years, but I might be forced to leave before I turn 5 ( no more work contract)

If that were to happen I wanted to double check if there is such a thing as a minimum contribution period for all 3 pillars, e.g. if you haven't paid for at least x amount of years, you don't get the pension when you turn 65.

Please advise. I'm an EU citizen if it matters.

I tried to answer this question to him, but it is complicated and I fear of not seeing something. I try to give you guys the important information and would really appreciate your takes. As I am also going to post this to the official FIRE/sub I will also mention: Living in Switzerland (so HCOL, even though we live in a village in canton lucerne, so for swiss-levels: MCOL).

Age: 58
Cash: 45k
Stocks/Investments: 425k
Pension Fund: + 614'500 (per 01.01.2024, including wife's pension fund -> this once in unclear. can get paid out in cash or as a monthly pension. The monthly pension would be around 4.5% of the money in the pension fund. If he waits until age 65 he gets a conversion rate of 5.2%...)
Other Pension Fund: 300k (both) (gets paid out beginning age 60)
Life insurance: 250k (200k gets paid out 31.12.2026 and the other 50k 31.12.2027)

also at age 65 my parents will receive their state pension of Total 44k / year (this has nothing to do with the other pension funds).

now, to make things complicated he has his own business. His Main business he can not sell to anyone (it's basically just his KnowHow of things), but through the company he can stop working but still getting paid a salary, etc. so he can play with the official date of retirement. What is difficult for me, is seeing through how much profit he actually makes and how much is just accounting-tricks to keep profits (and thus taxes) low.

also as a side-business in his company he has 4 Real estate properties with a total of 8 unities. My parents live in one unity and don't pay rent (but the company still has to account for those earnings) also my brother and I each live in a unit. My brother has a kid and thus only pays a small amount. I pay more of a normal amount but we didn't get any rent-increase in the last few years (duh), so he could make a bigger profit. Right now the cost and income are almost the same, but also just because he keeps investing in stuff (new floor for brother, solar on the roof, etc.).

Now, my parents need about 130k / year to live. Right now they live an kinda expensive lifestyle, 4 or 5 cars (including camping car, oldtimer, etc.) They live in a small flat though. My dad is fed up, he wants to retire now mostly or at least only accept the clients he likes. That way he would maybe generate 50k of earnings instead of 250k a year. He is kinda burned out.

ALSO we would love to build a big building (tear down two old ones and build a new one for 6 million. He would need to bring the bank around 1.5 in equity). I am not sure if this dream is in line with him also wanting to almost-retire now.

Hi I am 24 years old and invest monthly in etfs. On top of that I would also like to invest a small part for fun in cryptos, which wallet/broker do you reccomend?

Do not consider 2nd and 3rd pillar.

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I'm a Credit Suisse customer with Swisscard credit cards. Looking to cut expenses and get a better handle on where my money goes. Is there a way to automatically categorize my transactions, instead of manually entering them into a spreadsheet?

I'm a FIREd expat and would like to apply for swiss citizenship in a couple of years.

How are voluntarily unemployed people viewed w.r.t. obtaining a citizenship? Do they require one to be "contributing to society" by working? Would being FIRE be in any way detrimental to becoming a citizen?

EDIT: forgot to mention important information -- I'm from an EU country and worked in Switzerland for 7 years; currently holding a B-permit.

I'm already FIREd but find myself stressed out by high expenses (even though my withdrawal rate is well below 3%).

As an unemployed person, I still need to contribute to AHV, which is about 10.2K per year (calculated using a magic formula depending on total net worth). The wealth tax is around 4K per year (if my math is correct).

There's probably not a way to optimize the wealth tax about what about ahv? Could I set-up a company whose whole purpose would to be to manage my portfolio, and employ myself in said company? Then I could pay myself a small salary and pay AHV based on my salary and not based on my net worth. Alternatively, it could be an IT (which is my background) company doing "nothing" (maybe just open-source contribution) instead of a money-management one to avoid paying taxes on capital gains and what not.