Currently, I am doing the reverse cable crossovers for my rear delts but I have trouble holding onto the cables at higher loads.

As an alternative, I was wondering what are your favorite exercise(s) that you do for rear delts?

I understand for muscle growth you need to do hypertrophy and more weight low reps for strength. But what if even if my reps are low but I do more sets? If the overall volume is still the same would I still be building muscle the same way as if I do hypertrophy? Like say when I’m benching 155 I can do 3x10 which is 30 reps total. But if I do 170 I can do 5 reps only but what if I do 6 sets also equaling to 30 reps total. Volume is the same so shouldn’t be any different as far as muscle building goes right?

I find that the heavier I lift and get used to that weight, the quicker I’m able to increase the weight vs doing light hypertrophy sets. I think this is just how I progress

Welcome to the r/naturalbodybuilding Daily Discussion Thread. All are welcome to post here but please keep in mind that this sub is intended for intermediate to advanced level lifters so beginner level questions may not get answered.

In order to minimize repetitive questions/topics please use the search function prior to posting to see if it has already been discussed or answered. Since the reddit search function isn't that good you can also use Google to search r/naturalbodybuilding by using the string "site:reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuildling" after your search topic.

Please include relevant details in your question like training age, weight etc...

So we all know about the current war that is waged between high volume and low volume with high intensity programs.

Research has shown that "volume equated lifting protocols will result in equivalent gains in hypertrophy.

Yet still for some people it's just not working. There are a number of professional lifters that now swear by low volume high intenisty approach, even though they reached their physique with years of high volume training. Would they be able to reach the same physique using the lower volume approach from the start? We might never know. What we do know is that it is much easier to maintain a muscle than it is to build it. So in those situations the physique is already built, the program is changed to a lower volume and then strength is able to grow more. The lower volume is enoughto maintain the muscle, but the increase in strenght might even allow for some additional hypertrophy to occur. Thus making it seem like the low volume approach is "better" and more optimal.

Now for some of my personal observations which will turn into a hyptohesis by the end. I am by no means an athletic guy. I did combat sports when I was a kid for 7 years but I was never a pro. It was just a way to use my body and become a couch potato. I never had much of stamina and I was a lean ectomporph with no muscle. The fabled hardgainer. I started lifting and have been doing that on and off for a decade. And I have very little to show for it. I am 70kg, 185cm dyel mode. Not that it matters, i love lifting more than anything and will continue to do so until I hit my goal. Anyway my programs consisted of starting strength, gzclp, candito, 5/3/1, fullbody and the usual. In hindsight it makes sense why I never made much progress. I was focusing on strength with a body that is simply not build for it. Very long femurs made me develop 0 quads with convetional squat. And very long arms made me a poor bencher with my personal best at 75kg for 5 reps for 5 sets. Then I would get a cold and drop back to 60 spending a month or more to reach back up to 75. This is all just to paint a picture. I never did high volume work since everyone else made great progress on the other programs and I did not want to do a brosplit because well, I don't have that much free time.

Lately I've been looking into the science of lifitng and tried with my smooth brain to understand what caused my hypertrophy plateau since I've given up on strength. The only answer could be volume, but that's not what the lifitng gods are saying currently. I am looking at peoples progress and they are making more gains in a year than I had in 5. Why, how. They are as tall as me, similar build. It could be the diet tho, I could be in a caloric deficit. But still there were those that eat like crap and still look better. My personal weak spot are my shoulders, no matter what I do they just don't grow. So I decided to do a desperate approach and that is to hammer them first and do a ton of volume. And lo and behold they started to grow, not much but hey. Buuuut is it growth or is it swelling? How much until I overtrain and need a deload? High volume is bad say the lifting gods! My fatigue is going through the roof and soon I will just stall.

Then I saw a guy proposing what he calls 10 minute daily for a lagging bodypart. So for 10 minutes I would be doing overhead press with low weight. Seems ridiculous right. Well that what Andrew Tate did, I know he is a goof but stay with me he has good shoulders after all.

Then it hit me very fast and this is my hypothesis: Using a muscle prefferably at a young age (meaning high volume) will prime the muscle to have to become more responding to exercise. Construction workers are an example. They seemingly get jacked without working out and why? There is a need for body to grow. But they don't have low reps high intensity, they have ridiculous volume and varying intensity. The thing is they pay for that with their bodies breaking down. But their muscles are responding much better than someone elses. Hardgainers have muscles that have never been primed for response. There could be another factor in this bodybuilding thing besides genetics. That is how perceptive is an individuals body to growth. There are also cases that peoples biceps would grow better on one hand because they flexed that hand more often throughout life.

TL;DR Now for the final hypothesis: Blast the lagging bodypart with volume and it becomes primed for growth. With time volume can be dropped and replaced with intensity. Genetics and early life can play a big factor here by determining your starting state when you walk into a gym for the first time. But if you find yourself lacking in progress, maybe the body needs high volume all around to prime the muscles and make them sinsitive to growth and work. To gain access to them. Then once they have been primed turning to a lower volume approach makes them work that much better and thus suddenly the lower volume approach can work for you. Lower volume high intensity approach has to be earned through high volume first. This way we are adding a thing that was missing in the hypertrophy equation and that is an individuals muscle growth receptivnes that can actually be altered as opposed to genetics that can't.

I am by no means smart, this is a culmination of observation. I am sure I got many things very wrong and would love to hear you correct me. Somehow I feel there might be something here that makes sense. I apologize for my english since it is not my first language.

Particularly stretched position/lengthened biased lifts. I divebomb the shit out of my incline smith and incline db pressing and I get much better results compared to controlling it slowly down. I think it’s because I can push with better intensity through the sticking points? Anyway, I know it’s a hot take - just wondering if anyone else has found they do better with fast eccentrics as well.

So i know a general consensus when it comes to exercise ordering is compounds first then isolations. However, ive been doing lateral raises first on push day to prioritize side delt growth. Would it be more beneficial to overall muscle growth if i simply do chest first THEN lateral raises? Or is this current approach better?

I think it would be cool to compete naturally in the next few years (or even as soon as 2025) — but Im not sure how to guage if I'm ready. I dont want to embarrass myself at my first show. (Im 6'1" sitting at around 200lbs, pretty lean but jot shredded)

Title. We always hear about "dips for chest/dips for triceps" but I can't think of an exercise that puts the front delts on a greater stretch than dips. Moreover, dips seem like a lengthened partial for the front delts, which should be plenty hypertrophic.

Dips + OHP has been an awesome combo for ages for this exact reason: works the shoulder in its full range of motion.

Edit: guys, you're missing the point about the whole. "tier" thing. It isn't that serious. Just asking if you think/the data suggests dips are good shoulder builders since they are mainly considered a triceps/chest exercise.

I mean minor injuries (slight pain and stiffness), do you still workout? Reduce volume?

I don't have an adjustable bench, so I can't do incline pressing. I tried doing decline push ups, but the problem is you're locked into the angle by the height of the chair or whatever you're using to prop your feet up and it's difficult to get the right angle.

Are there any other options for when you work out at home?

Hello, I’ve been trying to do a bulking phase for 4 months now (6’5”, 238 lbs). I track my calories. Every time I increase my calories by 200 kcal, I notice that my weight jumps by about 2 kilograms (around 4.4 lbs) over a few days but then stagnates for weeks. I started at 4000 kcal and am now at 4600 kcal.

I’m a student and not very physically active outside the gym, so I’m surprised that I can eat 4600 kcal every day without gaining weight.

Does this happen to you too? Do you increase your calories every few weeks during a bulking phase?

I’m curious of people’s current physique goals and wanting to see how their calorie intake looks aligned with them. No wrong answers here as everyone’s metabolism is different. Feel free to add you current bodyweight too :)

OP - 9 month deficit (prep) - 3050kcal - currently 85kg

It happens to me, the strange thing is the pain is pretty intense , from my back being sore, but it never still hurts the next day (been going on for years) , and tbh it usually doesn’t even last an hour.

It happens if I do certain movements like On cable row if I bend forward, or squat etc.

If anyone has tips or advice for working on this it is greatly appreciated. 🙏🏻

I was taking creatine for a while and noticed slight hair thinning and bloating around my abs, even though my arms felt super full, which was great. Also had good cognitive function. But I feel WAY better from a bloating perspective after going off it for the past week. I honestly don’t think the benefits out weigh the negatives for me

RP recently posted "The Science Behind Tristyn Lee's 35Lb Transformation" (tl:dw Tristyn has been strict Carnivore for the past 2 years but in the past 30 weeks has put on 35 pounds after reintroducing carbs to his diet.) Something I don't understand, and would love some clarification on, is why Mike/bodybuilders are so scared of fats? In the video they start Tristyn at 100g carbs/day and around the same fats and by the end he's at 550g carbs/day(!!!) and 50g fat. I'm very similar to Tristyn (carnivore for past 2 years, reintroducing carbs for the past month, super lean) but I haven't wanted to cut my fats as that would, in my mind, needlessly cut my calories. I eat lots of hamburgers (meat and cheese only, 80/20 grind) and this is the main source of my calories (45%) and fats(55%). Current measurements/macros: 6'3" 172Lbs. 3900 Cals, 252P, 215F, 236C. Current goal is to mass up as much as possible. Can anybody give me some input?

Edit: 236F>236C

I’ve been tweaking and refining my routine for several mesocycles getting very good results (measurably), but have recently found myself exhausted and unable to focus or even uninterested in running it as it is.

At this stage, I have like three execises I actually consistently focus on in a specific rep range (pull ups, dips, incline chest machine) and pretty much freestyle the rest of the session (let’s assume 2-3 good variants per muscle group I pick from based on equipment availability/how I feel that day) Has any of you worked like that for an extended period? Is it just time to get a coach? Should I just make myself stick to the basic routine I used before?

Welcome to the r/naturalbodybuilding Daily Discussion Thread. All are welcome to post here but please keep in mind that this sub is intended for intermediate to advanced level lifters so beginner level questions may not get answered.

In order to minimize repetitive questions/topics please use the search function prior to posting to see if it has already been discussed or answered. Since the reddit search function isn't that good you can also use Google to search r/naturalbodybuilding by using the string "site:reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuildling" after your search topic.

Please include relevant details in your question like training age, weight etc...

After 16+ years as a natural bodybuilder, I’ve come to a conclusion that might not sit well with the hivemind: barbell squats are overhyped if your main goal is hypertrophy. Don’t get me wrong, if you’re training for overall strength, squats are an incredibly effective movement. But when it comes to pure muscle growth, they’re unnecessarily taxing on your entire body.

Here’s the problem: barbell squats require your back, core, and upper body to do a ton of work just to stabilize the weight. For hypertrophy, you want to isolate the muscles you’re trying to take to failure, not spread the load across your whole body. When I made the switch to belt squats, my leg training completely changed. Hitting failure in my quads and glutes became way easier, and the overall experience felt a lot less brutal.

One of the biggest myths out there is that training legs to failure has to be insanely painful. It doesn’t. Belt squats let me push my legs to their limit without the systemic fatigue and strain that come with barbell squats. Since then, my training has felt more sustainable, and I’ve actually been able to look forward to leg day.

Another alternative I like is hack squats, though I modify them slightly. Instead of holding onto the handles, I press into my knees or hips with my hands to keep the focus entirely on my legs and avoid adding unnecessary strain on my upper body.

The truth is, if barbell squats weren’t treated as the “gold standard” for leg training, I think a lot more people would enjoy and stick to leg workouts. For hypertrophy, it just doesn’t make sense to use an exercise that taxes so many muscles when the goal is to isolate and grow specific ones.

If you’re still grinding through barbell squats but struggling to stay consistent or feeling like your progress is limited by the strain, give belt squats or hack squats a try. Leg training doesn’t have to be this exhausting uphill battle—it can be effective, targeted, and, most importantly, sustainable.

Hi, just wondering how y'all change your program during a cut? Currently 4x/week of powerbuilding. I've gained 20lb since starting this bulk last March and got the size in the muscle groups I've wanted, just curious if you made any changes to your training during a cut.

I’m getting kind of tired of oats as a pre workout meal and need new ideas lol. I also need loottss of carbs so it’s hard to hit macros with out oats for me

Recently, I've been considering getting knee sleeves for leg days. Sometimes, my knees don't feel stable enough when squatting or doing leg presses, which can hurt. I also play basketball occasionally. As a heavyweight center, the muscles around my knees start hurting after 2-3 games. Are there any good knee sleeves that work well for both exercises? l'm currently looking at SBD and Bauerfeind Sports.

There are tons of post in here discussing ways to combat a size/strength imbalance in the pectorals, and that there is always going to be a natural difference do to genetics and daily life.

I have tried all the "tricks" to combat it.

removed BB Bench from programming in favor of DB
changed DB to unilateral isolation while holding the target muscle.

Taking the weak side to failure and matching with the strong

Focused on fixed plane machines to ensure movement pattern is the same on both sides

Brushed by teeth with my non dominant hand...

Now my chest has grown a bit doing this but the imbalance is still prominent. an almost appears to be worse

But here is why its confusing.

It looked like just a standard size imbalance throughout the pec, but now the lower and mid have evened out and grown the problem has become more clear.

it looks like there is a hole in the inner half of the top section of sternocostal head of my right pec. to the point that it looks like atrophy in the section.

And this became evident in strength yesterday when doing DB incline bench one side at a time, and focusing on contracting this area, after fatigue I could not move weight through those muscle fibre's plane of motion once my tricep was past the point it could contribute.

Any ideas as to the cause or tips to fix this?

In every bulk I've done there are multiple movements that randomly start regressing in performance. For example, I do a machine curl for 6 reps on all 3 sets, but the next few weeks I will regress back to 5 reps. If I ever do get back to that weight, it feels like I will plateau there for weeks. This also seems to occur on the movements I've had in my routine for the longest. If sleep and diet is fine, how do you guys troubleshoot? Change exercises, decrease / increase volume, change frequency?

I saw this post about jobs that suit people with ADHD, and it got me curious about something similar for us gym addicts. What are the most common or "regular" jobs that people who are addicted to the gym have?

For those who thrive in their jobs and still prioritize their fitness goals: what do you do for work? How do you balance it with your gym routine?

On the flip side, are there jobs you've tried and absolutely hated because they clashed with your fitness lifestyle? Maybe jobs that made sticking to your routine harder, or that left you too drained to train?

Would love to hear everyone's experiences!

Ive been working out for 4 years, and honestly, I dont think I have great genetics. Ive never missed a day in the gym, my diet has always been dialed in, and I treat those things as the bare minimum for progress, nothing special. Yet, the amount of times people accuse me of being juiced or tell me that what Ive achieved isnt possible naturally is insane. And for context, Im 185 lbs, not shredded to the bone or anything, but lean enough. Im not even walking around at single-digit body fat.

What blows my mind even more is that I have friends who are natural and twice my size. Legitimately massive guys, fully natty, whove been putting in the work for years or even decades. Yet, the second someone sees a big natural bodybuilder, the immediate assumption is, “Theyre on something.” Why is that the default reaction?

Its like the natural bodybuilding community constantly has to prove itself. If someone achieves anything beyond the average physique, people cry fake natty without ever considering how much work, discipline, and time it takes to build muscle naturally. I get it, there are fake natties out there who ruin it for the rest of us. But its wild how people forget that building an impressive physique naturally is absolutely possible with years of effort, consistency, and a smart approach.

The reality is, most people cant even stick with something long enough to see results. They start training, expect to look like a Greek god in six months, and when it doesnt happen, they quit. Then they turn around and claim its impossible to achieve anything naturally because they didnt get anywhere. But the truth is, they werent consistent. They didnt put in the hours, the weeks, the years required to make real progress. Consistency isnt sexy, and its definitely not easy, but its what separates those who build great physiques from those who dont.

Its easy to make excuses when youre not willing to commit. Instead of taking responsibility for their lack of discipline or effort, people look for a way to justify their failure. Theyll say, “Oh, he must be on steroids,” or, “Its just his genetics,” because its easier than admitting they didnt put in the work. People want the results without the grind, and when they see someone whos put in the time and effort, it makes them uncomfortable. Theyd rather tear that person down than face their own shortcomings.

This mindset is so damaging because it discourages people from even trying. If youre constantly told that you cant build muscle naturally, why would you bother? It creates this toxic environment where effort and hard work are undervalued, and the only way to be successful is to cheat. Thats such a lie. Building an impressive natural physique is hard, yes, but its also incredibly rewarding. And the journey itself teaches you discipline, patience, and self-respect, things you cant get from shortcuts.

What people dont realize is that sticking with something, whether its training, dieting, or anything else, requires mental toughness. Most dont have it because theyve never been willing to push themselves past their comfort zone. They quit when it gets hard, and then they convince themselves that nobody else could possibly succeed without cheating. But those who succeed naturally arent magical or special, theyre just the ones who stayed consistent, even when it was hard, even when progress was slow.

At the end of the day, excuses dont build muscle. Blaming genetics, gear, or anything else wont change your situation. The only way to get results is to show up, day in and day out, and put in the work. And if you cant do that, maybe its time to stop blaming others and start asking yourself why youre not willing to put in the effort. Because the truth is, most people could achieve so much more if they just stopped making excuses and committed to the process.

I think the issue comes down to the way lifting culture is now. People spend so much time comparing themselves to others instead of focusing on their own journey. They see someone who looks better than them, and instead of thinking, “Maybe I need to train harder or smarter,” they just write it off as impossible without gear. Its almost like theyre trying to justify their own lack of progress by tearing others down.

Natural muscle-building potential is so underrated, and honestly, most people dont even scratch the surface of what they could achieve. They dont stick with their training long enough, they dont track their diet, and they definitely dont optimize their recovery. Then they assume anyone who does take those things seriously has to be on something. Its frustrating because it downplays the insane effort naturals put in to achieve their results.

Its also kind of insulting. Like, youre telling me my years of hard work, the consistency, and all the sacrifices Ive made mean nothing because you cant believe I did it without shortcuts? Its almost like theyre saying naturals cant be big, which is just false. Sure, we have limits, but those limits are way higher than most people think.

So yeah, naturals can be big. Naturals can build incredible physiques. But it takes time, effort, and a willingness to do what most people arent willing to do. If youre not seeing results, maybe its time to stop pointing fingers and start looking at what youre not doing.

I’ve been lifting for 2 years now. I started with GVS’ ravage program 6 days a week. Over time I dropped the days to 4 (it has become a torso-limbs split), changed some volume and exercise selection around, etc. I’ve only ever made small changes at a time but I’m wondering if it’d be valuable to start running programs almost exactly as designed and for their intended length (looks like a lot of them are usually intended for 12 weeks).

I like the idea of this because it would expose me to a lot of different training styles over a year. Assuming 12 week programs, I could try out low volume full body workouts, high volume bro splits, some weird programs like Bald Omni Man’s Beast Slayer hybrid all in less than one year, and not get caught up in the weeds of trying to make small tweaks to improve performance. It would also keep things really fresh all the time with new training styles and exercises. I would also like to be able to say I’ve tried basically every training style under the sun and know exactly what works for me.

What do you like to do?

I see a lot of opinions stating that front delts do not need to be trained in isolation as they get a lot of volume from pressing movements.

Also that overhead pressing isn't great for the side delts.

So with that in mind, why would we have overhead pressing in a program? Bearing in mind it's a movement that primarily hits the front delts, which is being trained on other movements anyway.

This isn't me criticising anything, just asking so I can learn.

I've been deadlifting for about six years and peaked at a 500lb pull using conventional. Recently, I decided to give sumo deadlifts a serious try, as I feel I've neglected them over the years. I've watched a ton of instructional videos and feel confident with my setup and first rep, but I run into issues maintaining my form on subsequent reps. Everything feels off after that initial pull.

For conventional deadlifts, I’ve used both touch-and-go and full-reset approaches without much trouble maintaining good form. With sumo, though, it seems like I absolutely need to reset after each rep, or my technique falls apart.

I’m planning to schedule a session with an experienced PT I know, but with the holidays and new year, it's been tough to line something up. In the meantime, I’d love some advice:

Do you fully reset between reps on sumo, or do you prefer touch-and-go?

Any tips to help maintain form for multiple reps?

I (M18) was home training for 2 years with adjustable dumbbells (from lack of a barbell), got my dumbbell bench to 34kg each side for about 6 reps. However for the past 2 months I have been going to the gym trying to improve by barbell bench. Started out at around 60kg with a rather close grip for 6 reps but after trying to improve a dozen times or more over the 2 months, I have only managed to get to 65kg for 6 reps. I have tried all the common improvement tips (retracting scapula, using wider grip, etc.) but nothing seems to help and I have plateaued at this very low weight and I have no clue why. I am incredibly embarrassed by my low barbell bench. I want to get a good balance of both hypertrophy and strength increase but I’m just not sure if I can improve bb bench. Should I give up on it and just stick to dumbbell bench?

TL;DR: stuck at low weight on bb Bench, whilst db bench is better. Should I give up on bb bench and just train db bench for strength gains?