Seriously, even after MULTIPLE sources confirmed it, his name literally being stated in the 1979 newspaper clipping, I used to see some people here in this sub who vehemently denied that Mustache guy was actually JJD. For fuck's sake. It's not even that hard to imagine him slimmer and with a mustache, as if such things as growing or shaving it is impossible smh. 💀

This is what he would've looked like back then, it's almost exactly the same as he looked in that photo!

Probably shows a likelihood that's probably just not a solvable case at this point. Not unless there's massive DNA luck one day at least.

Attack: October 1st 1977

Victims: 17yo girl and her 21yo boyfriend.

They were awoken by JJD. He must have broke into his house earlier that day because the man’s shotgun was moved and casings also removed.

JJD went about with his typical MO but I want to focus on something different that stands out this time.

In between assaults on the girl JJD was ransacking the refrigerator and kitchen presses, pigging out on food and beer.

At this point the victims heard the sound of a car horn multiple times. JJD either ignored it or couldn’t hear it from the kitchen.

Next there was a knock at a window at the front of the house and the victims believe JJD went to the front door and opened it.

Next the victims believe they heard two voices talking in low voices at the front door.

Do you guys think that LE have a suspect for this accomplice?

Do you think it might have just been a complicated ruse orchestrated by JJD? Or maybe just imagined by the victims due to the shock, fear and pain they were experiencing?

Have you any other theories on this?

Also the victims believe this other person had a female’s voice. Do you think they could be able to determine the sex of the accomplice without making out any of words that they spoke?

I’ve started a podcast, a series and reading these threads in one day. Is anyone else extremely frustrated that they didn’t record who attended the town hall meeting? That would’ve narrowed the pool down so much!

As I’m listening to everything they did (which was a lot). It’s so maddening that they didn’t try and cross reference people or have JJD on their radar at all!

Podcasts I’m listening to is criminology and I’m enjoying their take, it feels so emotional and about the victims. All those people who had to endure decades of him being out there in the world.

After having spent years looking into this case, I think I am capable of giving my own assessment of Joseph James DeAngelo and clear up some things that I consider common misconceptions.

JJD was not all about self preservation

I can't remember how many times I read this phrase or versions thereof on this sub. While it is true that JJD went to greater lengths to conceal his identity than any other criminal I am aware of, it is not true that all his actions were level-headed and primarily motivated by self preservation. The best example for this argument is when he called in to the police prior to an attack or when he wrote the "mad is the world" essay. This is the behavior of someone who likes to engage in risk taking, not someone motivated by self preservation.

JJD was highly intelligent

While no IQ test has ever been conducted on him, given his actions, he is definitely more intelligent than the average person. It's difficult to pin it down exactly, he's no genius either but he's definitely in the 130 range. I noticed that a lot of people in the true crime community erroneously associate intelligence with virtue, perhaps that's why they shy away from calling someone like JJD highly intelligent. The exact same thing happened when Bryan Christopher Kohberger was arrested. People were rushing to say that he is "akschually not that intelligent" for this or that reason, but every piece of evidence that has come out since his arrest points to him being extraordinarily intelligent.

JJD was a good father

This might be less controversial but I still see some people deny this. Well, I also used to think that serial killers are incapable of being good husband and fathers because of their very nature, but I had to change my mind in face of the facts. There are now enough examples of such criminals being genuinely loving fathers. We also have the letters from one of his daughters and isn't there a distant relative of him frequenting this sub who is full of praise for JJD as a family man? Psychologists call it compartmentalization.

JJD is not Mr Cruel, Zodiac or any other famous uncaught criminal

JJD is enough many things ((VR/EAR/ONS). Someone should actually make a list of all the names he's ever gotten.) He doesn't need to be responsible for every unsolved crime around the world. He might have killed Donna Richmond. I don't know, I haven't looked into it. But the people who speculate he might be Zodiac or whatnot are frankly speaking naive, because they underestimate how many men with similar inclinations to JJD exist.

The sobbing was genuine

I have said this before his arrest, but I see that this is a position more and more people take. I think it's actually one of the most important pieces of evidence. I doubt the multiple personality hypothesis but it is not uncommon for feelings of hate, regret, sadness and self pity to mix.

JJDs apology was genuine

There was literally no need for him to say anything. He was spared the death penalty. His body language, combined with the actual words he used strongly indicate to me that he was, in fact, genuine. The reason he refuses family visits is that he is ashamed of his actions.

JJD was the greatest criminal in human history

Some weeks ago I read on this very subreddit a phrase that roughly said the same thing. I can't stop thinking about this. I have researched many serial offenders and I have never come across anyone who was equally intelligent and methodical. This guy became a cop purely to become a master criminal and to understand his natural enemies, the police. He aborted multiple attacks, when he didn't feel comfortable. The physical transformation from VR to EAR is insane. The only criminal I can think of who is remotely on his level is Mr Cruel. If anyone is familiar with criminals who display an equal amount of careful dedication to commit their crimes, please tell me.

Therefore, I think it safe to say that he was indeed the greatest criminal in human history and it is safe to say that there will never be someone like him, now with fingerprints, DNA, police coordinaton and CCTV everywhere.

The "Mad is the World" essay is the most important piece of evidence on JJD

Some people dismiss this as red herring. It might be, but even then does it gives us clues about his personality. I personally think it is genuine and it is criminally understudied. People say it's a bad poem. Well, that might be true. I don't know. This is not an English literature competition so I don't understand why people are satisfied with calling it badly written. It needs to be studied. Phrase by phrase. By forensic psychiatrists and graphologists.

I was super into the EAR/ONS case when I was younger. I still remember the insane feeling of joy when he was captured. A year or two after that, I drifted away from the case. I was recently drawn back to the case after reading I'll Be Gone in the Dark.

I think I always assumed that by now we would have answers to some big questions, but checking back in- it seems like maybe we don't. I tried to use the search feature in this subreddit, but maybe someone could assist me with some questions weighing on me:

• Why did he stop in 1986?
• Did his wife/family know? If not, how was he able to get away for long stretches of time at night without raising suspicions?
• What did he do for work in the 1980s? Why was he in Southern California?
• How was he not caught when police searched his home after the shoplifting charge? (This whole sequence is confusing to me)

Ok, I exaggerate but the planning the murderer does and the fact that the mask he wears looks very similar to JJD really made me wonder.

An additional similarity:

!He doesn’t seem to kill unless he feels like he’s going to get caught. He’s motivated by watching and torturing, not necessarily by the act of killing. I always thought JJD first killed when he was about to get caught and then cut wayyyy down on his crimes for his daughters. And when he couldn’t resist the urge he’d kill them so there was less of a chance of getting caught!<

I think the most disturbing thing about EARONS is that we might be looking at the tip of an iceberg.

I recently came across the podcast American Nightmare S3 on the Potomac River Rapist, and was really struck by the similarities in MO between the two. I doubt that there is any actual connection, like the Potomac rapist studying EARONS, but it’s an interesting insight into the mind of such monsters. I highly recommend the podcast.

Similarities:

-Targeted women inside their homes, often with others in the house. -Targeted areas under construction, and police theorized he was a construction worker (he actually was) -Ate from their fridges -Spent extended periods in the home -Eventually progressed to murder, by bludgeoning with a found object (rock) -solved by genetic genealogy

He wasn't a cop very long, and it wasn't his main career, so don't know

Hello,

Although not being from the area, lived in the time or having any connection to any of the o victims (closest might be that Manuela Witthuhn and I are born in the same town), I was always fascinated and shocked by it.

I, like many of you, hoped that some more questions would be answered and cleared up now thst he is arrived, but seems as if JJD is not willing to talk unlike many other Serial Killers.

I just started deep diving into cases again, reading Sudden Terror and Kat Winters Book.

Some thoughts came to my mind about certain things I read/saw that seem to Connect. Maybe some of you can provide insight or maybe my thoughts make sense for you.

1. I wonder what cars he drove.

I saw one post that said he drove a green car some time during the attacks. What I directly recognized was especially around attack 5, the 2 Stockton Attacks and #37 there is a green car spotted several times . Does anyone have more information on other cars he drove in that era?

2. There is a very detailed timeline for all EAR cases, which maybe some of you know. However I could not find any detailed timeline for the ONS cases. Does anyone know where to find more certain information about prowling and sightings for this time?

3. I heard Carol Daly speak out that they had a feeling that it was a cop and checked any male Cop in her station which wasn't ending in a positive result. Why did they not check any other stations nearby or contacted the head of other stations?

I think that especially the composite sketch from the (I think) art student after the Maggiore Murders was almost perfect. Comparing it to a picture of JJD as a police officer around that time it seemed like a perfect match (all my respect to the art student and his incredible talent to paint someone, he only saw for a second standing in the dark, so perfectly). There is also one other sketch that looked so similar to him. How come that NO ONE ever hat the thought that it could've been him? I am sure the cops in Auburn knew about EAR and they must know about the composite sketches. How come none of them was like "Hey that looks a bit like our Co worker Joe"

4. At least a hand full of victims were in houses that were for sale/rent (Domingo /Sanchez and the Harringtons) and either close before moving (attack #39) or also just moved. Did he have any connections in that scene or was he maybe reacting on ads for houses that were up for sale?

5. I remember JJDs former Co-worker, a police officer, stating that he and his wife had separate bedrooms. Did the murders maybe also stop after the birth of his first daughter because they are now sharing a bedroom and his or her former bedroom was turned the bedroom of the newborn daughter?

6. Something we all might've asked us at a certain point: did he do it during work hours? Getting to know the neighborhoods: I am 99 % sure. He was driving around there most of the times so he knew it perfectly. The attacks? I am not sure. Could be hard to be gone for, at times, 2 hours. What if he would have a call coming in or someone tried to contact him? It would be too suspicious in my eyes.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this

I was reading the Wikipedia page on him and came across this, “Detectives ignored DeAngelo's initial requests to speak to an attorney, later citing a legal theory that this potential Miranda violation would be justified, with the understanding that prosecutors could not use the interview against the defendant in court.”

Can someone explain this decision to me? Why would police choose to not make the interview useable in court?

As many of you know, many witnesses reported that EAR/ONS smelled strongly of after shave. I was kinda wondering about how JJD managed to live without being detected in Citrus Heights, despite that he had terrorized the same area and left a trail of destruction right there in his own community.

I wondered why/how some witness or survivor never bumped into him while out running errands and recognized his scent. What if EAR/ONS (DeAngelo) was wearing a specific after shave and putting way too much of it on himself ONLY FOR THE COMMISSION OF HIS CRIMES. This way, he would mask his true scent and further misdirect anyone who might bump into him around town.

Hindsight is of course the unrealistic treasure of ongoing investigations… but… if this IS why EAR wore heavy after shave, it would have potentially indicated that he frequented the areas where he wore aftershave and possibly lived or worked in those areas. Now of course we could never have expected to figure that out before we KNEW he was living near his victims, but it’s a curious observation and might speak to the meticulous nature of DeAngelo’s counter-forensics.

While most of the world is thinking about many tall buildings and airline passengers cut down in cold blood, today we honor the memory of Claude Snelling, who was shot and killed while saving his daughter’s life. He was and is a hero, and he charged into danger on more than one occasion with no regard for his own safety beyond his ability to protect his family and home.

I grew up in the neighborhood where JJD lived in the 90’s and early 2000’s and me and my friends spent tons of time playing on the various trails around the creek that ran through the neighborhood. We built bike jumps, we played in the creek, we used forts/tree houses built by other kids. We would also use the creek as a shortcut or to evade adults. I am aware that JJD would access the homes of his victims using similar geographic features, and I wonder if he ever stalked potential victims in this neighborhood when he was still active as the East Area Rapist, before he lived there.

More than that, I am curious if he prowled around the neighborhood after 1986 while living there, just out of habit. It seems like he really did more or less become inactive (though I have seen that there is speculation about later killings) but is there a chance that he was walking or driving around the neighborhood hunting and fantasizing about what he would like to do? Did he take walks or bike? What do his neighbors say about his out-of-house behavior?

I remember, especially when I was much younger, how frightened we would be whenever we encountered any grown man on the trail or by the creek and the hush that would fall over us until we were long past him. I have wondered ever since JJD was arrested if one of those scary adults we walked by on the trail was him.

I was just curious. I don't believe so but wondered what some of the "experts" here think.

Questor and Kat Winters discussed a hot burglary and rape incident on October 21, 1975, that heavily resembled JJD's MO and was even considered the first canonical EAR attack for some time in the 70s before being dismissed under somewhat dubious and controversial consideration. A lot of things line up, like the attacker tying up the victims, speaking through clinched teeth, asking victims questions before immediately telling them to "shut up," ransacking the house, attacking only females in maleless homes in the early EAR spree, and exceptionally brutal sexual assaults even by JJD's "standards," in the beginning of the EAR spree that many suspect was the product of him acting out a new "thrill." The only discrepancies seem to be that the survivors described the assailant as a lot shorter than JJD is and how future survivors and witnesses described him (around 5'6-5'7 instead of the 5'10 that he is and the 5'8-6'0 many described him as), initially thought their attacker was a Black male due to poor lighting and the assistant's Black gloves, and the fact that the predator may or may not have sexually assaulted a very young 7-year-old in the house, something JJD was never reported to have done during the canonical EARONS attacks. However, from what I can tell, there is a lot of dispute about whether or not this child was sexually assaulted, with many sources claiming police and the family misunderstood her telling them that the attacker gagged her as her claiming he forcibly orally sodomized her. Winters also suggested that if the assailant did sexually assault the girl, and that if it was JJD, it may have been a "test" to see what he "liked," and him not doing it in future attacks was a reflection of him not enjoying assaulting females that young. Personally, I think JD committed this attack, and it likely was his first actual EAR attack, as initially believed, but what is the consensus in the community? Was there any attempt during his trial to link him to this attack? I don't know if the survivors of this attack are still alive or came forward after his arrest to verify if he was their assailant and gave an impact statement.

We all know JJD probably had more victims. And, we know he's likely never going to be legally prosecuted for additional crimes (bc of the sentences he already has, statute of limitations, his age, etc.)

But does that mean anyone in LE is still working to connect him to cold cases? I haven't seen any updates on additional victims linked or confirmed since he was arrested 6 years ago now. Or is this a "well we got the guy, and he's going to die in jail anyways, so on to the next!"

Investigators worked their butts off to identify him bc they deeply wanted to provide closure for victims' loved ones...and yet, for these other victims where there is no legal path moving forward, no one cares about providing their loved ones with any semblance of closure by at least identifying who the killer LE confirming who their ransacker/ rapist/ murderer was?

Do you think that more victims will be confirmed with time?

https://www.foxla.com/news/pillowcase-rapist-christopher-hubbart-to-be-released-california

Another notorious shitbag operating in California in the 70’s and 80’s.

Would they threaten him with the death penalty again? Make him elaborate on the offenses he has already admitted to? Would they try to make him confess to more rapes and burglaries he is suspected of committing? I don't believe JJD was ever made to acknowledge being the East Sacramento Flasher, Exeter Ransacker, Cordova Meadows Burglar, or Rancho Cordova Cat Burglar, despite it being pretty obvious he was all of those offenders, so it would be interesting if he was made to formally admit to them if he ever sees a court room again.

One user recently made a post stating that EARONS did kill Prof. Claude Snelling and the Maggiores outside, but I'm not really sure what the relevance of that would be since there's no particular evidence they were deliberately killed outside, so that just seems like a bizarre claim to make imo.

Theory of escalation:

It goes against the theory of escalation to beleive they're the same offender because you'd have to beleive EARONS started off as a serial killer, sent letters to these press, killed a random cab driver, and then deescalated to petty home invasions, stopped sending letters, and then worked back up to murder again.

Here are the other common points that are brought up as to why people think they're the same offender:

They were both active in California:

There's a reason why California was nicknamed "Killafornia" between the '60s - '80s.

You have to be pretty naïve to think they weren't dozens upon dozens of seral killers and rapists active during this time period in California.

They both wore a mask:

Wearing a mask to avoid witness identification is far from anything unique. Every serial rapist ever wore a mask to avoid the victims identifying them. Wearing a mask seems like common sense more than anything else.

They both sometimes would use a gun:

Using a gun is hardly a unique MO, even for serial killers. Guns are commonly used to kill people in America.

They both forced the woman to tie up the man:

Still nothing really particularly unique about that. Seem more like common sense to have the weaker threat tie up the more serious threat first imo.

They both restrained their victims:

Nearly every serial killer and serial rapist every has done this. Nothing unique about restraining victims to gain control of them.

They both used a ruse to get their victims to comply:

This is another tactic that nearly every serial killer has used to trick their victims, so they could gain control of them. It just isn't an unique MO.

They both killed people outside:

Yes, Claude Snelling and the Maggiores were killed outside, but were they deliberately killed outside? I just don't see any particular evidence of this

They both targeted couples:

Serial killers targeting couples is anything but a unique MO:

Son of Sam anyone?

Colonial Parkway murders anyone?

Monster of Florence anyone?

Texarkana Phantom Killer anyone?

This is why I personally don't think they're the same offender.

Sure, are there surface level similarities? Of course.

Does any of this point to them actually point to them actually being the same offender?

Not really imo.

Guys I’m concerned about something. By the time the Visalia Ransacker finishes his crime spree, he has become a skilled home invasion criminal with a long resume and advanced methodology. He wears tennis shoes so that he makes less noise — at least during some of his crimes.

The East Area Rapist begins his rise to prominence. He wears heavier boots, or “waffle stompers”(?). It isn’t until his 7th attack that he appears to realize tennis shoes are quieter.

If these are the same offender… why this anomaly? An explanation I can dream up is that EAR began his crimes wearing drastically different shoes so that he would thwart any attempts to link him to the Ransacker, who, remember, by now, has killed Claude Snelling. He tries out the boot

s, but inevitably realizes they are too loud and bulky, so he switches back to the practical decision of tennis shoes, emboldened by his success and feeling safer about the potential for his linkage to the ransacker.

This is essentially the primary solution I can see here, but it definitely makes you wonder about VR/EAR…

Do we have any idea if he lived i Southern California or just drove down to kill? I don’t think I see any info about it but I may be wrong

A lot has been postulated about how JJD selected his victims as the EAR. I agree with Paul Holes that he sometimes selected them based on a negative interaction with a man just as much as potentially being attracted to a female. But I’ve struggled to understand how he had that much time to select, stalk, peep/prowl, and finally attack them along with working full-time and just doing ordinary life stuff. I had another thought today when listening to a Criminology podcast episode called, “Roots in Visalia”.

So, we know there were often (If not usually) a home listed for sale nearby many of the victims’ homes. What if, rather than he selected a victim somewhere and followed them home, he instead used the newspaper ads or a real estate magazine to find properties available in areas he was interested in (or familiar with) to search for victims. Once he found a place, he could then scout the neighborhood looking for someone who could fit his needs as a victim, or even homes he thought would be easy targets.

To me, this can help explain the strange things happening in neighborhoods in the days and weeks leading up to an attack such as strange cars seen driving around, the prank phone calls, and/or people pretending to be realtors/meter readers, etc. After an attack was reported and police questioned the neighbors, they almost always said the same things: phone calls, prowling, mysterious cars/people etc. It also helps with cutting down the time needed to do the legwork.

The podcast interviews a man who one night had actually chased after the VR, and he said while he and the police were looking for him discovered a recently sold new home that was empty but found evidence someone had been inside recently. So, maybe in some situations he was even able to do recon work in broad daylight with the protection of being inside an empty home. It also potentially gave him another place to hide if being pursued.

I don’t think every victim was chosen like this, but I do believe that this is a possibility of how many were. I wonder if he had a buddy or family member in the real estate business and potentially used this connection as a way to get information as well.

Wtf?! He did this?? This is so extremely brazen it’s shocking he was able to do this and not get caught…

I wanna preface this by saying: I do NOT think JJD was The Zodiac. I don’t think it’s QUITE as ridiculous as some think, but it’s still completely unproven and links are very tenuous and speculative when they are cited.

However! For those of you shouting “they can’t be the same! The crimes are different because EARONS killed in the victims home and psychological profiling dictates that this type of activity is very different from killing outside!”

This demonstrates a very limited understanding of the EARONS attacks. Off the top of my head (and there may very well be more. I’m no expert)

1. (Sorta) Claude Snelling was shot and killed chasing the Ransacker out of his home (probably mostly in his doorway)

2. William McGowen was fired at outdoors while pursuing the Ransacker. Contrary to some descriptions, this was definitely an attempt to kill him, as the shot was fired at his flash light with the assumption that it indicated the location of his head.

3. Rod Miller was shot outside while pursuing the EAR at Ripon Ct.

4. Maggiores

• this one is by far the most Zodiac type crime. A couple is chased down and executed with gunfire outside in open sections of housing complex.

These things DO NOT PROVE HE WAS ZODIAC. THEY DON’T EVEN INDICATE IT. All I am saying is that using the assumption that JJD killed inside and Zodiac killed outside is not a valid route of research

Ever since JJD's arrest, many have speculated that other unidentified serial killers had/have been put on watch after it was made clear that advancements in DNA technology and criminology were vital in linking JJD to VR/EARONS crimes. Some of the LISK suspect Heuermann's internet searches were released after his apprehension half a decade later, showing he was keeping tabs on developments regarding LE's investigations into LISK murders, as well as John Bitroff, another serial killer active in Long Island, New York, who committed murders at least around the time of Heuermann's first known alleged victim. As Heuermann's case unfolds, could we discover that he made internet searches around the time of JJD's arrest or sometime after, such as "How did California authorities identify the GSK?" or "Could the same methods used to identify the GSK be used to identify the LISK?"

Are there crime scene photos available?