/r/ZodiacKiller
Subreddit for mature disussion of the Zodiac killer and related matters.
Subreddit Rules. Let's try to be nice, ok?
The Zodiac case is one where, luckily, there is a wealth of official documentation available to the public. The entire FBI file is public, as are many of the contemporary police reports.
The Zodiac FBI files (709 pages in six pieces): 1 2 3 4 5 6
Zodiac Sites:
Zodiackiller.com
Zodiac Ciphers
Zodiac Killer Facts
Zodiac Killer Site [Forums]
Zodiac Revisited
Zodiac Killer Ciphers
Season 1 of the Criminology podcast
If you think anything should be added to this list, let me know.
Related subreddits:
/r/ZodiacKiller
79,361 Subscribers
ALA, pedophiles and homocide..
It's rare for pedophliles to kill, rarer still that it's a man, usually women. Don't think zodiac is a pedophile. Just my 2p.
11:05 UTC
So who did the hair belong to?
I'm talking about the hair found in 2001 or 2002 for the Dateline special. I know the letters were handled frequently and could have been easily contaminated. I know the location it was found in decreases the likelihood it was Zodiac's. Still...it could be his hair. There's a non zero chance it was Zodiac's hair. Surprised over 20 years later they still have not revealed who it does in fact belong to. Surely it was tested?
12:56 UTC
did the film get this wrong
in the film during the third murder where he stabs the couple he threatens them with an m1911a1 if the zodiac used a 9mm luger then why did he use the 1911 instead is this something that the guy who survived noted or did the zodiac say he used it in a letter or did the film make this up
14:31 UTC
is there any proof it wasnt allen
from all i have read and heard theres so much proof that it was allen and there doesnt seem to be any evidence against allen so i think it was to be him
14:09 UTC
Question about what KIFL means or who it is
I have been doing some browsing on this topic and I have seen people say “ I agree with KIFL” or KIFL was correct. I don’t get the reference and google ain’t helping. Can an experience member explain this or try to?
05:49 UTC
What Happened to Suspects After the Spree?
Hi All,
Hope you're well.
A question that is bugging me more, the more I think about the Zodiac case is this;
What happened to the suspects AFTER the Zodiac stopped killing (presuming Paul Stine was his last murder)?
ALA is pretty well documented by now, but what about Paul Doerr, Rick Marshall, Richard Gaikowski etc? (I'm yet to read Jarret Kobeks books on Doerr (on my list) so maybe I'm missing something but it bugs me)
You've killed a slew of innocent people, been seen by witnesses at your last confirmed kill, you've taunted the police endlessly for close to a decade...I can't imagine what a normal life looks like to a person like this once they stop killing. BTK is the closest i've seen to 'what happened next'.
Could there be something in the behaviour of one of the suspects post-Zodiac that gives us an idea of who he was?
Thank you in advance for any input and/or corrections to this post.
21:33 UTC
Bryan Hartnell, the coolest cucumber around…and that stupid hood.
The Lake Berryessa incident is of course horrifying and tragic, but is it just me that finds Bryan’s interaction with Z darkly funny? Bryan seems initially more confused by Z and annoyed rather than scared. The silly hood, the clip on shades, the precut plastic rope, presumably tucked into a belt, like a kid playing dress up.
Everything from the slightly condescending offer of financial / personal help to the bemoaning of being tied up all night and his demeanour in the hospital bed, he’s just the coolest cucumber.
With the outfit and the gun, I’m sure Z thought he was an intimidating figure, yet Bryan sees right through it and calls out that his hands shaking, probably that even under the mask he could sense this guy was a looser, and without the weapons, no threat. I’d imagine that was a surprise for Z that he wasn’t quite fully in control, with a couple that didn’t feel powerless.
I think BH is an excellent witness but still don’t believe the symbol was embroidered on the outfit. Chalk or paint is more likely to me. I’m torn on the hood being square bag shaped too, I’m not sure who’s theory it was that it was an off the shelf executioners hood costume, rather than something crafted for the attack. That seems more likely to me.
I was reminded today that Bryan changed his thoughts on the Zodiac’s weight at some point. Often it’s best to go with things whilst fresh in the memory but Bryan was recalling a lot of traumatic information whilst in a lot of pain, blood loss and then surgery + pain killers, and I do believe he’s the type to work through his memories objectively, so I do put some faith in his thinking that he might have been looking more bulked up by the jacket he wore if it was lined.
After the awful Netflix doc I thought I’d check in and see what else is new on Zodiac. Has Bryan done any other documentaries other than the Zodiac dvd/Blu-ray extras?
The hood - do we have any new thoughts on that the last few years?
Obviously the daylight nature of the attack was high risk, I wonder if shooting his way out if he was seen by others was his plan. I also wonder if he kept using the same car once he found out Bryan survived.
21:34 UTC
Paul Doerr was Zodiac. Come at me.
I get frustrated with the casual dismissals of Doerr as a weak candidate. To my mind he's the only candidate that actually looks better with every bit of information without requiring any mental gymnastics to reconcile. I can only interpret the resistance to him as a suspect as a personal dislike of Kobek as the messenger or an emotional attachment to pet theories. Search for Doerr on this subreddit and you'll see what I mean.
So let's wash all this ALA talk out of our mouths and drill down on Doerr. Obviously this is a circumstantial case, but at this point they all are.
The basics: he lived in the area at the time (Fairfield) and meets the basic age and physical description. He was ex-military and worked at Mare Island which would explain the Wing Walkers.
He was a crank and prolific writer. Aside from self-publishing his own zines, he wrote many letters to the editors of area newspapers, from mainstream to radical leftist. He also worked for the post office. Note Zodiac's abbreviated addresses on the envelopes. Zodiac knew how to get letters straight to the editor. The first Zodiac letters are unlikely to be his first time writing to newspapers.
He knew the ANFO formula when it was very obscure knowledge and published it in a zine with the exact same mistake as Zodiac (no detonator).
He published an amateur cryptogram in his zine. A substitution cypher, exactly like Zodiac's early codes.
He knew basic electronics. He had an argument with the editor of Electronic Design Magazine in their letter column.
He built and solo-navigated a sailboat from the northeast US to California through the Panama Canal. Zodiac demonstrated knowledge of navigation in his letters.
He used stamps from the American President series, like Zodiac, and even advocated a protest against the USPS by using 1-cent stamps. Zodiac's letter to Melvin Belli used 1-cent stamps.
He belonged to the Minutemen, a radical anti-communist group that waged anonymous mail campaigns against their "enemies" (perceived communists and race traitors). Their trademark was a crosshair symbol combined with a threat of violence. "Traitors, Beware!" Remember, Zodiac used the crosshairs before coming up with the name Zodiac, so the two are not necessarily connected. Minutemen newsletters offered Zodiac-like advice, like using a small caliber pistol and drop mailing from public mailboxes. https://zodiackiller.forumotion.com/t64-minutemen-literature-publications
He attended (and was photographed!) at the renaissance faire near Lake Barryessa around the time of the attack, perhaps explaining why Zodiac had an executioner's hood even though (he believed) he murdered the only eye witnesses. He made his own cosplay costumes.
He was a fan of musical theater. He collected comic books.
He advertised and traded mail order guns even after "the ban" which Zodiac also claimed.
Despite writing and publishing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of words, showing an interest in ciphers, living near Vallejo, AND filing copyright for a zine about serial killers(!), never wrote ONE WORD about the cryptogram-focused Zodiac murders occurring in his back yard.
Now ask yourself, if HALF of this was true about another suspect don't you think it would be compelling?
Here's the good news. Doerr's fingerprints are likely on record somewhere and his descendants are still around for DNA. He can probably be conclusively ruled in or out.
17:17 UTC
Mail traveled fast if zodiac kills Paul Stine on October 11 and the San Francisco receives on the 13th two days later!
Iam curious when he wrote letter once he back home that night or maybe the 12th!
01:27 UTC
Just a note about the documentary
Particularly about the part with the reporter getting that letter with the supposed Z on the envelope. I thought that was such a ridiculous stretch even for a true crime documentary which sensationalize stuff. Like that literally looked like someone testing out their pen not a Z at all. It wasn’t even deliberately written correctly. Looking head on it’s written like an N. I just thought it was a massive stretch. Anybody else?
12:37 UTC
Possible Theories
Wats the possibilities that the FBI had a guy like ALA, who they were gonna name their guy for the killings but then some evidence came up disproving that. I believe something like that basically happened than they found another person who was more likely the zodiac killer but were hesitant to charge them. Even the idea it might have been a cover up because maybe likely it was a cop or military man. Whats everyone's thoughts?
23:50 UTC
If for you, ALA is the Zodiac...
What is the linchpin piece of evidence that has you convinced?
11:26 UTC
ALA’s reactions and phrasing make him suspicious to me
Yes I’m here after the documentary which I enjoyed very much but leaves a lot of questions.
My radar always goes off around ALA and his reaction to things.
Like the interview and him putting his head in his hands saying he’s so depressed. His tone of voice sounds like terrible acting someone faking being upset and crying. Didn’t look like he shed tears neither.
His choice of phrasing he said something like “I know I’m not the Zodiac. I searched deep in my soul and I knew it not to be true”
Like what the hell is that supposed to mean?
If you hadn’t done something you’d know you hadn’t. If someone told me I’d killed someone 20 years ago I wouldn’t need to do any soul searching etc because I know factually I didn’t. End of story.
Perhaps it speaks that he had some mental illness and wasn’t even sure of his own reality?
And that video tape... I mean come ON.
The guy says he’s sick of it and wants nothing more to do with it and wishes he or the zodiac were dead so it could end.
Then spends what must have been hours or days to put together a compilation of clips ( recorded let’s not forget from live TV as this was pre internet - so years of collating this info ) to VHS? Yeah buddy you really had enough of it and wanted to let it go 😂.
Perhaps he wanted people to think he was the Zodiac rather than a pathetic child abuser and would rather that was how he was remembered is the only reason I could see to put this much time and effort into it.
Oh and last thing- any thoughts what the naked bum and the words meant? Meant nothing to me. Could it be another Mikado reference?
12:10 UTC
Lake berryessa!
I’ve never been but I’ve always been curious how extremely lucky zodiac was that he wasn’t caught in the act I mean from a watching them for a distance for who knows how long until Cecelia Shepard spots him putting on the hood, and everything that followed holding them at gun point tying them up entertaining Bryan hartnell questions even showing him the clip in the gun not to mention how long the ordeal really was, the stabbing the waking to their car and carving the dates walking to wherever his car was and leaving even the first responder said zodiac could have been pulling out when he was pulling in even on zodiac killer the detail about zodiac showing the clip isn’t mentioned Iam just baffled how someone could commit the crime and walk about without be detected I doubt this couldn’t have happen today without the killer alerting some eyeballs on him!
01:22 UTC
How was zodiac sending out his letters!
I don’t think he put them in his mailbox and waited for a the mailman to pick them up lol and I don’t think he was dropping them off at the he post office himself!
00:00 UTC
Charles 'Chuck' Wayne Lindsey: Revisited, Part 3. (Compelling suspect or weirdo cop?)
Piggybacking on u/alien_body's previous posts, I'm here to open up the topic of Charles 'Chuck' Wayne Lindsey again. Couple of us have been discussing him on Discord and have found a couple of oddities regarding his time spent in Solano County as a deputy sheriff and what followed after he was let go.
Early Life, DOB
Charles Wayne Lindsey was born as Charles Wayne Wells to Grace Beatrice Sharp and Willard Dale Wells in 1936.
Grace Beatrice Sharp married Worley Austin Lindsey in February 1943 therefore, Charles Wayne Wells is now Charles Wayne Lindsey. Their residence in the 40's and part of the 50's is Kansas.
By 1953, Lindsey's residence is now Richmond, California. (Source: U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014)
In 1957, Lindsey marries Robbie J Tate (Robbie J. Lindsey). By this point in time, Lindsey is documented as working for the deputy Sheriff's office.
He also worked as a gatekeep/doorkeep of Grange Officers.
Work at Sheriff Deputy's Office, speculations
In 1960 he is mentioned in an article citing him as part of a car crash. His address is now 406 Wilson Ave. and he's driving 1953 Lincoln.
By 1961, Lindsey's residence is now Vallejo, CA. (U.S., City Directories, 1822-1995)
In 1962 he has a minor appearance in the Solano-Napa News Chronicle, cited as one of the winners of a bullseye contest.
In 1962, he is pictured along with Les Lundblad displaying recovered stolen clothing. He's apparently balding in this image. Lindsey worked as an identification officer as well as crime-scene photographer. Notice: Les Lundblad was one of the Zodiac killing investigators.
By 1963, his residence is now Fairfield, CA. (U.S., City Directories, 1822-1995)
In 1965 his wife, Robbie, files for divorce, citing extreme cruelty.
In 1966, he sets out to find a missing pilot and with him accompanying a news reporter-photographer from the Solano-Napa News Chronicle. I'm not familiar how common this was, but thought it was worth mentioning.
The following images were obtained from Solano County Sheriff Department's archives and are dated as follows:
December 14 1966
I want to point out that by this point his receding hairline is much less visible, implying he's wearing a topper or something of the sort.
March 1969
Lindsey is working at the Sheriff Dep. Office which as of 1960, is using the Identi-Kit system for identifying and sketching perps. He was also responsible for identifying a perp via his alias.
**In 1967,**he remarries a Nancy Jones.
By 1969, they are divorced.
The sketch.
The Bartalotti Case
Admittedly, the most interesting point in Lindsey's timeline is the Bartalotti case from 1969. By September 18th, 1969, Charles Lindsey, who is now described as a former Solano County deputy sheriff is summoned by the courts to be cross-examined by the accused defense, the accused being the father in-law of Susan Bartalotti, Jerry Bartalotti. Her husband had been killed in 1967 in Vietnam. The defense seems to make the claim that a bloody footprint left at the scene was left by Charles Lindsey, rather than having been left by Jerry Bartalotti.
So, by September 18th, Lindsey is no longer working as a dep. sheriff in Solano. Despite working in Reno, his adress remains in CA (public directories)
Several people have made claims he was let go due to evidence stealing, but I guess that's not something a newspaper would publish, or not that we could find. Remains speculative.
So, what's so interesting about this case?
Well, first of all, Lindsey was responding officer to the Susan Bartalotti murder.
He was asked to turn in the boots he wore that day as evidence, as it was brought into question whose bloody shoe prints were at the scene of the crime.
Interestingly, Lindsey doesn't bring his boots to the court, he detaches heels from his boots and admits that into evidence. Defense attorney, Winters, requests Lindsey to turn in his boots from the day of the crime. The matter is dropped after Les Lundblad spends 2 days in court testifying.
Lindsey, who also regularly took photos of crime scenes, took over 2 dozen photographs of the Susan Bartalotti crime scene. In a 2 hour time period, one photo showed a washcloth near the bloody stains, while the other showed a bloody print. Lindsey claims it was impossible to tell if he saw any bloody prints at the crime scene.
There were also powder burns next to the victim, which forensics claimed wasn't from the killer himself. It remained unclear where the extra powder burns came from. The gun was never found.
Jerry Bartalotti, her father in law, was sentenced to jail in a circumstantial case and pleaded not guilty. While incarcerated, he asked to be put on a polygraph test, which he was denied.
The Benicia Widow
Now this is where things get a bit murky. In 1970 he's cited as still working in Reno via public directories, but living in Fairfield still.
In 1972 his girlfriend, Marjorie Lynn Lubbers (ex Smith) is found dead at his property, on St. Johns Mine Rd. , off Columbus Parkway. Coroner Dan Horan rules it a suicide. Per his report, she shot herself in the heart and the gun was found underneath his bed.
While entirely odd, Lubbers was previously in Napa State Hospital and apparently had a previous suicide attempt. Marjorie was a former resident of Kansas, where she divorced her abusive husband. The investigator on this case is Les Lundblad.
How'd you find this guy?
Charles Lindsey has been mentioned only a small number of times through the decades.
In 2011, a post is made about "Chuck Lindsey" on 'ZFK.com' by a user named "Roxietoday". Roxietoday claims to be the stepdaughter of Charles Lindsey, and makes a few different claims, which seem to be corroborated by other things found, such as his living behind Blue Rock Springs, or as it's stated in the "Benicia Mother" article, St Johns Mine Rd.
ZMAIL
''THE BOOK'' (yes, *that* one)
Later, in the the late 70's, Robert Graysmith receives a phone call from Sgt. Ralf Wilson, who works for Vallejo PD, regarding a tip from an anonymous informant, pointing the finger at Charles Lindsey. Ralf Wilson goes on to state "This person lives on a ranch, is an expert with weapons, has photos and exhibits of the Ferrin murder, as well as all the photos of the victims. Hes into the occult. He's into cryptography, he looks like the composite drawing. He was fired from the sheriff's department"
Apparently, Lindsey was considered a prime suspect for the Ferrin murder. It's claimed he was fired for stealing evidence and openly states he has photographs of Z victims. Other locals have claimed they saw pictures of the victims in his house during the time of the murders but didn't find it particularly odd due to his work status.
It was also claimed her corrected the BRS dispatcher for incorrectly writing down what the killer said. Upon being questioned how he knew what the killee had said about the location of the murder, he couldn't remember where he had heard it from and later on claimed he heard from his fellow colleagues.
Note: This was claimed by a local who knew a couple of cops back in the day. It was said this was information available in police reports during Lindsey's questioning in July of 1969. We haven't been able to corroborate this with police reports, so if this person gets back to us, I'll update the post. Remains speculative.
Little is known about Lindsey after that point. We have speculated he might have changed his name, since there is very little to no mention of him from that point on.
Lindsey also had a son, Martin 'Marty' Lindsey. He was incarcerated.
Letters to The Editor
Lindsey wrote two letters to the editor, that we know of. Attached below.
Conclusion, Notes
There are many oddities about this specific POI, which a couple of us have found compelling and worth looking into.
Possible connection to Ferrin
He was claimed to be a prime suspect in the Ferrin murder as stated by Sgt. Wilson and apparently questioned in 1969 about his whereabouts, connections to Darlene (she was said to be dating a cop at the time and in march 1969 Darlene's babysitter claims a middle aged man was watching Darlene's apartment for several hours. As we all know, this certain individual was also someone that had checked up on her while she worked at Terry's restaurant). The police reports regarding his questioning haven't been made public. If we obtain them, I'll attach them.
Over the decades, LE has debated if the killer was involved with Ferrin with Poyser's last statements after retirement being the following:
"Our Vallejo suspect is probably still the best lead," Poyser said of Allen. "There are probably 30 different circumstantial things that point to him. ... He was extremely intelligent but a deviant dude."
Even if Allen doesn't prove to be the Zodiac, Poyser said he believes it was someone familiar with Vallejo, and perhaps with a law enforcement or military background. He pointed out that the first four victims all were shot in rural areas likely only known to locals. He also said that Ferrin, the 22-year-old woman shot and killed in Blue Rock Springs Park, may have been known to the killer. She was a waitress in a Vallejo restaurant and, though married, was dating at least one police officer, a possible link to the Zodiac, Poyser said. ''
LE background
The absence of physical evidence on the confirmed Zodiac letters suggests that the author was forensically savvy, taking precautions such as wearing gloves while writing and possibly avoiding licking stamps, which could have revealed his blood type. In contrast to previous letters, the 1974 "Exorcist" letter contained a palm print, and the 1978 "I'm Back" letter provided a DNA match to a 1974 letter. This disparity might imply that the Zodiac was more skilled at counterforensics than an SFPD homicide inspector.
The killer managed to use exact phrasing from LHR police reports in the Zodiac letters, observed the arrival of police units, approached Mike Mageau with a high beam flashlight to impair his vision, and avoided leaving a single matching fingerprint across letters or crime scenes.
In the post-Stine letters, the Zodiac focuses on police mistakes during the search, detailing specific units deployed and their inefficiencies. His tone resembles a report, mirroring the style officers use to document events, giving precise instructions and cardinal directions. Comparing this to Pelissetti’s report of the Stine crime scene highlights a similar convention of noting unit arrivals.
Officer Hoffman had cleared the BRS murder scene, making it improbable he would return to the area without a specific prompt or dispatch notice, possibly giving the killer a window of unchecked opportunity. By this point Hoffman moved on to other areas, such as areas of high drug activity.
Maybe a pure coincidence, but it bears some weight when you compare it to the previously mentioned Stine letters. He appears knowledgeable of units like FD spotlight and motor patrol.
He was either very lucky or knew a thing or two about forensics, radio frequency and police reports.
Proximity to the murder sites
Lindsey lived close to both LHR and BRS. In 1970 his address is St Johns Mine Rd., which is 1 mile away from Columbus Pkwy. It was stated in the original Vallejo PD files and by the user claiming to be his stepdaughter that there we unlit back roads that led to St Johns Mine Rd. (location of the Swett Ranch mentioned)
"I want to report a double murder. If you will go one mile east on Columbus Parkway to the public park, you will find kids in a brown car. They were shot with a 9 mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year. Goodbye."
LHR description of the murder
When giving proof to his activities at LHR, Zodiac copies phrases directly from Benicia, SCSO, and DOJ reports. The LHR description of the murder is eerily similar to police reports, almost reading as a bullet point type content:
'"Dear Editor, I am the killer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass at Lake Herman & the girl last 4th of July. To prove this I shall state some facts which only I & the police know. Christmass 1. Brand name of ammo Super X 2. 10 shots were fired 3. the boy was on his back with his feet to the car 4. the girl was on her right side feet to the west 4th of July 1. girl was wearing patterned slacks 2. The boy was also shot in the knee''
Proximity of the phone booths
The BRS call came in roughly 40 mins after the attack. The crime scene is about 15 min drive from Lindsey's house and a 30 minute walk to the phone booth.
In July 1969, Zodiac calls about 4 blocks from the Solano County Sheriff's office (look at 1971 Pert Chart).
By mid Sept. 1969, Lindsey is no longer working for the sheriff's department. Several people who've visited his house claimed he had pictures of Z victims at his desk and he openly states to Graysmith that he took them as a 'souvenir'.
Other notes
It's interesting several locals who knew Lindsey as well as the informant (his roomate) that tipped him off to Sgt. Ralph claim he had the crime scene photographs in his house, albeit not giving it as much significance because he was a crime scene photographer. It's possible he was just a weird dude who collected Z victims photos from the time he spent working at the sheriff's dept., but it's definitely worth noting.
Lindsey practically disappears after the mid 70s and little is known about him apart from Graysmith's visit to his farm.
A Reddit user says this 4 years ago in a comment:
Some folks over on Discord have made FOIA requests and I've asked Solano Superior Court Clerk for the Bartalotti files, to check out witness statements.
If you have any information about Charles Lindsey, let us know! We'd also like to hear your opinions and keep discussion about him going.
It's possible he was just a violent, strange cop but it does make him a compelling POI in the case.
Feel free to check out previous posts about him that were posted on here:
Compelling Suspect: Charles "Chuck" Wayne Lindsey
Charles "Chuck" Wayne Lindsey: Revisited
Charles "Chuck" Wayne Lindsey Revisted: Part 2
Thank you for reading!
23:38 UTC
Getting information to the right person
A friend of mine used to know this guy who really seems to fit the profile of the zodiak killer. He grew up in the right area, was in the air force and a code breaker. They had more info that was really compelling. They thought of him while watching the documentary and they said it was like they were describing him, including that he looks like the sketch. They called the FBI and a couple police stations it sounds like but felt like they wanted to do more. Apparently his name also fits the cypher the killer sent that was supposed to be his name. His initials aren't RH, but are RHP (I was going to type out his whole name but not sure I should just throw out someone's actual name here). What is the best way to make sure whoever might look into that info actually looks into it? Any journalist they should look into?
20:55 UTC
The first time ALLEN showed up at the police radar 🚨
I know you're probably sick of that, but I had to post it because I saw people connect ALA to the police only because of Don Cheney and that’s not true ¡
I find it very interesting that ALA was first questioned by SFPD after the Lake Berryessa attack almost two or a week after the crime occurred which is pretty fast. What was the reason for picking ALA and questioning him that fast after it happened? Who and through what? A tip? A witness? A report? I did search for the reason and I didn't find anything, even the officer himself who first went and interviewed him didn't even remember what was the reason for ALA being questioned after the LB attack.
Could be someone there in the area who saw ALA and thought this man was strange he needed to be checked by the police so he made a tip to the police. Or did some witness observe from a far distance ALA being around the crime scene and make a report to the police? The last reason I could think of it is that Don Cheney who first tipped him to the police anonymously. But the police didn't care that much and he decided years later to come to the police and talk about it.
Also, it’s interesting when you think about ALA being questioned only after LB attacked 🚨, he didn’t show up at the police rader after the Blue Rock Springs crime occurred or Paul Stine's murder.
21:27 UTC
The Donna lasso case is bizarre!
Iam listening to the zodiac is speaking podcast and the host are covering the case of Donna lasso disappearance I like we do hear from her friend but her disappearance has a lot of holes in it, where did she go after work, did she ever make it home her friend said she didn’t like to walk home in the dark who made the call somebody called the security desk at the Casino claiming to be Mr Davis Donna landlord and Mr Davis also received a call, whoever took her knew at least the name of her landlord maybe somebody in her own building!
02:33 UTC
One things that stood out after the Netflix special
At one point during the documentary it claims that Allen had a absentee slip the day after one of the murders and this was new information the police didn’t have.
How?
Unless it was filed incorrectly the police surely would have had this information.
After some google searching it appears that Phyllis at some point worked in the school district as a bus driver and teachers aid.
Did she play a bigger role in this than everyone was lead to believe?
03:22 UTC
Are There Any Publicly Available FBI Files on Chester Clark Klinkel (And Other Supposed Hoaxists.)
I'm curious about Klingel as a suspect, but there's limited information on him. I lean more towards him being a hoax (whether he wrote the letter, or someone else dragged him into it). I'm also interested in other hoaxers in the case, in particular the person who admitted to writing the desktop letter in Riverside (likely not a zodiac crime, I know)
19:50 UTC
The challenges of remembering facial details
I found a great online exercise that demonstrates how difficult it can be.
Might suggest that you hold onto any sketches of Zodiac very lightly indeed …
18:51 UTC
Catalogue from ALA's basement
Is this catalogue mentioned in RG's Zodiac - the chapter about Fincher's film - a real thing:
"But his team is still sleuthing. Max studies a catalogue recovered by the V.P.D from the prime suspect's basement home in 1991. He discovers a photo of a black costume with a square black hood like Zodiac's. The catalogue says it can be ordered by mail. He turns quickly to the front. The publication date predates the Zodiac murders."
08:39 UTC
Did any known suspects have any negative life events in 1967-1968 that might’ve served as triggers?
EG, loss of a parent, divorce / separation from a spouse, being dumped by a girlfriend, etc?
Basically anything along those lines in a year or so period prior to December 1968, that might’ve served as a triggering factor - that would’ve made said person feel unseen, despondent, or served to escalate a fantasy to reality?
10:06 UTC
Catalogue with z costume in ALA's basement
Is this a real thing - mentioned in RG's Zodiac about Fincher's movie production:
Fincher is done with 111 days of shooting. But his team is still sleuthing. Max studies a catalogue recovered by the V.P.D from the prime suspect's basement home in 1991. He discovers a photo of a black costume with a square black hood like Zodiac's. The catalogue says it can be ordered by mail. He turns quickly to the front. The publication date predates the Zodiac murders.
15:22 UTC
If zodiac killed Paul Stine!
I believe zodiac killed Paul Stine it is odd that he know for killing couples why go from killing 2 people at once to 1? Zodiac came close to getting caught if the description was right that cop would have stopped zodiac and arrested him and we would have found out who he really was!
05:26 UTC
You're tapped to be the new lead investigator in the Zodiac Case. What's the first thing you do?
I'd request the personnel transfer logs from Nov 1966 to Dec 1968 from March AFB to Travis AFB...and start whittling.
00:53 UTC
What if one day..
Imagine one day you woke up and saw the news broke about the zodiac being finally caught. You check the press conference and you listen to them saying:” Now, we don’t only have circumstantial evidence against him we also found forensic evidence that proves it was him, it’s Arther Leigh Allen.”
What will be your reaction? What will be the reaction of people who believed it was ALA from day one?
07:39 UTC
Is the Zodiac Killer Just a Myth?!
17:50 UTC
Listening to zodiac speaking!
Could zodiac have been this Mac guy the host is making a good case for him but Iam still not sure!
03:01 UTC