In addition to being lovers lanes, they were also popular with night hunters? Night hunting isn’t something one does alone. I know some of the suspects liked outdoor sports like hunting: but were any known to hunt in those areas? With friends? Zodiac may have known kids were available as isolated targets late at night from going out with some hunting buddies. Heck, said buddies might have even hated those kids for crashing good hunting nights on weekends/holidays. (Windows down radios up, girls screaming and laughing). It’s also notable that remaining canon attacks occurred away from Vallejo. Like someone trying to shift the focus away from Vallejo. Like someone realized he was a bird who pooed in his own nest.

I know a lot of people debate whether Zodiac had truly committed all the crimes he claimed to have (Katherine Johns, Cheri Jo Bates, etc.) with people claiming he was an attention seeker who would claim responsibility for any unsolved crime to further his legend. If this is true though, why did he deny responsibility for the bombing that killed Brian McDonnell in one of his letters?
"I hope you do not think that I was the one who wiped out that blue meannie with a bomb at the cop station."
He also says later on in that letter that there is "more glory in killing a cop than a cid because a cop can shoot back." If he was just seeking attention, you would have to think he would have also taken credit for this attack, right?

It seems to me that perhaps the reason why there is conflicting evidence is because there could have been more than one person acting as a zodiac. Not necessarily in on it together, but just another sick person who was intrigued by the case and inserted themselves into it. There’s just so much that people use to eliminate certain suspects, and because the zodiac happened in many different areas of California and had such a huge media focus, it seems plausible to me that some other weirdo also acted as the zodiac and all these cases got lumped in one bin. Thoughts?

I would say one of my biggest problems with ALA being the zodiac (if not the biggest) is my disconnect between pedophile and guy who is building an “army” for the afterlife made up of teenage couples. These seem like entirely different goals to me. Maybe others think about it differently and see a link between the two. I understand it’s definitely not out of realm of possibly that someone as awful as a pedophile would have darker fantasies & delusions, but ALA’s life seemed to be pretty centered around grooming a virtually single mother to gain access to her kids. Curious what others think. FYI I definitely do lean on the side of it being him, but this definitely hangs me up on it.

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The Tarbox confession has always interested me since learning about it. But, what seemed contradictory to me was that he said the confessor said that Stine was impulsive and not pre-planned.

I thought this was a contradiction given that Z had gloves, likely used some kind of scissors to start the cut on Stine's shirt, and knew where to go to escape.

However, in a podcast, they said that the gloves were left there by a different passenger. If that's the case, then Stine being impulsive makes much more sense.

He's in the car, has the gun, and when he sees the gloves he thinks, "How fortuitous." He kills Stine, but because it's not his MO, he knows he'll need to be able to prove this was him, and rips Stine's shirt. But he can't do that with the gloves on, which aren't his and likely don't fit too well.

So, he takes the gloves off to rip the shirt, and inadvertently touches the dash, while leaning over Stine's back (where the shirt is torn). He attempts to wipe the dash for prints, witnessed by the kids.

He doesn't know if SFPD got his prints, so he writes in the letter that he "planted" fake clues for SFPD to follow, in a desperate attempt to pre-empt a defence that he's not Z, said he planted evidence.

He gets away, but he must have been hiding for him to recount all of the activity of the cops and firetrucks - which indicates to me he didn't have a plan in place per se. He doesn't want to admit he was hiding, looking for a way out, so he reframes it as watching the cops act the fool from a distance.

I'm starting to think Stine was impulsive, Z wrote letters to obfuscate how close he was to getting caught, and the Tarbox confession is more likely true than not.

How can it not be ALA, the blood on him after he’d been at the same spot those guys were murdered at, the recent cypher decoded saying he was going after Connie, him admitting to the guy he was the zodiac over the phone, the letter he wrote to the mum during his prison time. And the fact that DNA evidence was so much weaker am I just being naive in thinking it has to be him with way to much circumstantial against him.

What from the new series is new information?

Are these interviews with the grown children the first we're hearing about these details?

Has there been a book that covers this family?

The mugshots to me are particularly interesting because if we look at ALA’s face in them, his cheeks are visibly hollowed out and he looks noticeably more gaunt than in most of the other pictures we see of him - particularly from the profile where his face looks narrow and skinny.

The description in the composite sketch specifically states “heavy build” which means we know he wasn’t a lanky or skinny guy, so we can conclude he’s a heavier body with a somewhat skinnier looking face. It also matches most other accounts of him being a heavy guy.

When it comes to the hair and hairline, I always thought it strongly resembled Sean Connery’s hair in the 60’s - what a lot of people don’t know is that SC was actually mostly bald during this time and wore a hairpiece in all the Bond movies. Hairpieces were extremely common during this era, and it would’ve been highly unlikely for a balding man in the 1960/70’s not to have been familiar with them. But it would’ve created the same type of hairline we see in the sketches.

One of the other things of note is the narrow button nose, the prominence of the cupid bow, and the distance between his upper lip and nose, all of which match ALA closely.

Zodiac took precautions during his other murders to not have his face seen, so I think it’s highly unlikely that he committed his riskiest murder wearing absolutely no disguise.

Edit for typo

Would anyone be interested in starting an open collaboration in finding possible Z communications in area newspapers? Maybe we could use AI to scan letters to the editors page to see if theres any correlations in writing between known Z letters.

I have been doing it myself a bit, but it seems like a lot of work. I was just focusing on the Vallejo times herald from Dec 1968 - July 1969.

Id be happy to set up a dedicated website for this project if there was any interest.

The point would he just possible identification of pre-Z Z writings to area papers.

Why did the movie point that dude out as the killer if that character is entirely fictional?

Does anybody have a detailed article about Alan's past? His parents or their absence his upbringing, struggles or abuses, his love affairs and thier time periods and did he get married? or have his own set of childrens to grope (sorry just creepedhumour ) Zods spree is oddly unusual especially that taxi kill I mean whathaFuck was that what was even the point of that , people who take pleasure killing would wake thier victims up if they're sleeping and then kill them..our guy is a disgrace ( see I did it again sorry) Anyways I'd be much appreciated if anyone could share the link Thanks. Ohh and one more thing, that lady journalist who went inside Alan's house to interview for the first time is a Ballsy Baddass!!! Huge Respect ma'am.

I'm just curious if there's anybody who stacks up well to how ALA/Doerr stack up right now, because obviously earons ended up being a complete unknown.

Im not gonna lie but the knife DNA test part is very annoying for me, why you dont tell us about the result in the documentary.

All of this renewed focus on ALA potentially being Zodiac got me wondering...

First off, I am not suggesting that ALA is Zodiac. What is interesting is that he has arguably been the primary person of interest going back to when the Zodiac was still active. Allen was interviewed by VPD in October of 1969 before the Stine murder. This, of course, predates Cheney & company contacting authorities, not to mention Graysmith advancing Allen as the "public face" of Zodiac suspect notoriety, tabloid TV and internet infamy, the Fincher film, et al.

It got me thinking--are there any other cases that come to mind that went unsolved for years or decades where there was a widely known POI (not a framed or prosecuted individual later exonerated) who ended up not being the perpetrator?

I find it inconceivable that Zodiac was not a frequent and rampant letter to the editor writer BEFORE the murders. He was a clever, opinionated, attention seeker with a penchant for trying to manipulate the media to tell his narrative. I think if we study letters to the editor of the time before the murders (maybe the previous 36 months) on the variety of topics Zodiac touched on, as well as his quirks in spelling/grammar/etc. we may be able to find a match.

There has been speculation here and there about Zodiac being connected to Scouts or Explorer Scouts. Here is a PDF of a vintage signaling book that touches on code. Just for anyone who likes side-research into niche areas. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Signaling_MBP_Historical.pdf

First of all, bro only killed 5 people. Thats like nothing when it comes to serial killer numbers. He was too stupid to figure out how to kill the 2 survivors. I think that’s why the letters and the murders stopped. He realized he was a loser and sucked at everything. Probably wound up being a lonely old creep with no friends or girlfriends.

just like this sfgate article review says , this new Doc proves nothing except showing ALA as a possible peado ..which has NOTHING to do with our case ..and this is just one way of manipulation this Doc tries..read the article for more

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/netflix-zodiac-killer-show-waste-of-time-19869128.php

>>>>>>>>>

the profiling here seems to point out , that we simply need a bad man with a possible criminal behaviour or record to get our killer ...and better still if it was a man seen negativally by so many ppl , painting him in a very bad picture will make the general public more ready to accept him as a killer too !

However..we have no reason to suspect that zodiac was a peado ( HE DIDNT TARGET CHILDREN ) ! or that his crimes were sexually motivated , true he targeted young couples ..but he might have just found them perfect victims ( perfect location to start with) and sensational enough for media !

and even if he got sexual thrill , this has nothing to do with being a child sexual offender.

and what about the Zodiac criminal profiling ?

in all his communication ..Z was sure he will never be found by the dumb police , so he must have been someone no ONE would suspect.right ? not someone who already had child victims and was even telling his friend ( his plans in advance! ) ..someone so EASY to point out ..and already many ppl were his enemies.

this again reminds me about the ( delphi murders ) , I know the two cases are very different but ..

the police and the public were following this same stupid profiling of the killer >>and were absoltely sure that the killer was a very stupid young peado ( AKA) who contacted one of the victims the night before ..the suspect would even fool the police by presenting his father as the killer and causing a scam river search that would cause the state so much money ..eventually the killer was found by chance to be someone else unsuspected by anyone..with zero criminal record

he was hidden in plain sight

and thats how the zodiac stayed elusive ...is what I think

I am a novice to this case, code cracking and ciphers, and I’m just genuinely curious at understanding how one solution is accepted over another. I’m so thrilled that this cipher is finally solved, but what makes this solution legit compared to others?

Are there any more legitimate zodiac ciphers that need to be solved? I keep seeing conflicting reports on what letters could be legit and others that could be fake.

I’ve read a good bit over the years but I haven’t catalogued it nor have I read everything ever posted/published on the case, but am I correct that the 1974 search warrant for ALA’s property in Santa Rosa is the only time a search warrant specifically to search for Zodiac-related evidence has ever been issued related to a suspect?

And wasn’t Allen also printed (fingers, full hands) as part of this warrant? As well as compelled to produce left- and right-handed writing samples? (I’ve read he did both, but less clear on whether he did that because he was asked or because of a court order as part of the search warrant.)

Doesn’t make him guilty, of course, and no evidence uncovered in that search tied him to the murders in any way nor did it lead to an arrest, but he was clearly a high-priority suspect for LE to make a case to a judge to get a warrant.

There have been many suspects who have come from the ‘research community’ and others who were suspected, apparently, by various law enforcement officers or agencies during and immediately after the Zodiac murders, but I wanted to see if someone more expert than me could confirm that ALA was the only one who rose to the level of LE actually obtaining and serving a warrant related to the case.

(I haven’t yet seen the Netflix documentary, although it’s on my list of things to do, but I see a lot of people dismissing ALA out of hand — which is fine — but this would seem to indicate that he at least was a very viable and serious suspect in the eyes of LE at that time.)

If ALA wasn’t the Zodiac, wouldn’t he have found the ciphers Z sent in to the newspapers extremely compelling as a dedicated hobbyist, and been hooked on solving them himself? But especially after becoming a suspect.

I mean how many cipher enthusiasts could there have realistically been in Vallejo in the 60’s?

The biggest piece of new information in Netflix newest Zodiac documentary, This is the Zodiac Speaking (2024), for me personally, was the revisiting of a finding from The History Channel's, The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer (2017). In History Channel's show, they used a supercomputer called CARMEL to come up with a solution to debated Zodiac communication, The Albany Letter. The computer's solution was "Connie Henley". At the time of the show, they could not locate anyone with this name...

At the time of the Albany letter (1973) Connie Seawater states that she was living with her new husband in Canadaigua, NY. She also states that Arthur Leigh Allen had her phone number and would call to ask her to come back to California. He seems to have indicated he was going to come out there to get her and bring her back. Connie's mother, Phyllis Seawater, was close friends with Allen and they shared many letters, phone calls, and traded videos. In This is the Zodiac Speaking, they state that Phyllis Seawater's maiden name was Hensley, a name strikingly similar to Henley.

Why it seems important to take more notice of is this: The name, Connie Henley, came from a source completely unrelated to the Seawater family. They did not make this piece of information up for the Netflix documentary (I can't say that about the rest of their claims). In my opinion, this leads more credibility to the possibility that Arthur Leigh Allen mailed The Albany Letter (even if he wasn't the real Zodiac).

Before this information came to light in the new documentary, what reason did we have for Zodiac to ever mail anything from Albany, NY? I could never reconcile the disparate coasts, when Zodiac was really only known to ever terrorize the San Francisco Bay Area. This new revelation gives an actual believable reason for Zodiac to have created this communication.

The rest of the documentary was pretty much a retelling of what the Seawater's gave us on Youtube, but with much more money and time put into it. Even if all the claims they give are mostly incorrect, the three-part documentary is worth giving a watch, especially if you are deep into the case like most of us on here are. I would love to hear more fellow Zodiac hunters thoughts on this new information, so please let's discuss below!

Happy Hunting.

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