tldr; Sex and consent aren't just themes in these books, they are The Theme. Kvothe is a victim and not a perpetrator.

Contents

1. The Lethani vs. the straight path
2. Isn't this the same as saying the central theme is power and the abuse of power?
3. A nightmare vs. a fantasy
4. Some theory expansion packs

(I) THE LETHANI VS THE STRAIGHT PATH

I don't think many people would argue with me if I simply said, "the Lethani is right action and rape is wrong action, therefore, the Lethani is not rape." But if that were the entire definition of the Lethani then it would not have taken Tempi, Vashet, and Sheyn so long to explain it to Kvothe. Or maybe it would have. Afterall, navigating sex in a safe and consensual way is notoriously challenging. Alveron, the potential suitor, struggles with it as much as anyone:

Alveron hesitated. "I know nothing of this," he said with a hint of petulance. "I wish there were some book of rules a man could follow."

When Elodin outlines three paths that potential suitors can take, they are: (1) the path of an honest fool, (2) the careful path, (3) the shortest, most direct route. The first path is Alveron's and he fails to follow the Lethani. He's eager to court Meluan and seems to genuinely want a relationship; but by lying to her and having Kvothe compose all of his love letters, he engages in deception. Meluan did not have all the information necessary to consent to marriage. He makes it right eventually, when he tells her the truth and apologizes. An honest (but dishonest) fool. The third path or direct route is sexual assault ("Quit grabbing at my tits"). This is the path of Tehlu. In Trapis's story, Tehlu comes to Perial in a dream. This could be interpreted as a drugged interaction or it could literally be a dream, but the only thing that really matters is that Perial doesn't believe she is really talking to Tehlu. Like Alveron, Tehlu is deceiving his "wife". But Tehlu goes even further.

"Are you going to do something for my neighbor Deborah?" she asked. Because that's who she had prayed for before she went to sleep. "Are you going to lay your hand on her husband Losel and make him a better man? The way he treats her isn't right. Man should never lay a hand on woman, save in love."

A man should never lay a hand on woman, save in love. And yet,

"I think you know very little about what it is to be a man," she said. "And I would still help them if I could," she told him resolutely.

SO YOU SHALL, Tehlu told her, and reached out to lay his hand on her heart. When he touched her she felt like she were a great golden bell that had just rung out its first note. She opened her eyes and knew then that it had been no normal dream.

This passage reinforces my earlier statement that Perial was deceived and therefore could not properly consent to anything that Tehlu did. But it's a bit of a moot point because he "laid his hand on her" (not in love) and didn't bother asking. Even if Perial had been informed, and even if she would have agreed to Tehlu's plan, none of it matters because he forced himself on her. The most direct path to what he wanted.

(II) ISN'T THIS THE SAME AS SAYING THE CENTRAL THEME IS POWER AND THE ABUSE OF POWER?

Eh, sure. Power, trust, and the abuse of power is certainly a more generalized way of looking at sex and consent. If there's one thing we know about these books it's that all the metaphors run in parallel with each other. Here are several examples of power-imbalanced, non-sexual relationships that we see:

• horse and rider (or livestock and owner)
• master and servant
• king and subjects
• parent and child
• teacher and student
• musician and audience
• Namer/Shaper and all the things
• arcanist/alar and all the things

Any one of these relationships could be corrupted and turned abusive. A rider could push his horse too far until it dies. A master could beat his servant. A king could become a tyrant and his subjects become rebels. But these crimes are not all equal.

But the worst thing in this time was that there were demons walking the land. Some of them were small and troublesome, creatures who lamed horses and spoiled milk. But there were many worse than those.

There were demons who hid in men's bodies and made them sick or mad, but those were not the worst. There were demons like great beasts that would catch and eat men while they were still alive and screaming, but they were not the worst. Some demons stole the skins of men and wore them like clothes, but even they were not the worst.

There was one demon that stood above all the others. Encanis, the swallowing darkness. No matter where he walked, shadows hid his face, and scorpions that stung him died of the corruption they had touched.

So a rider who lames their horse is not the worst, nor is a poisoner, a murderer, a liar, or a thief. The worst is a respected authority figure ("stood above all others") who escapes all accountability ("shadows hid his face") and overpowers anyone who resists him (scorpions are spiritually associated with self-defense). I'll admit that could just as easily refer to a tyrant or enslaver as to a rapist. However, considering this sex/consent perspective does enhance a few existing plot theories. It also pairs well with the observation that most of Kvothe's sexual experiences are a subversion of fantasy tropes via gender swap.

(III) A NIGHTMARE VS A FANTASTY

A common reading of WMF is that Kvothe is living out a sex fantasy. He loses his virginity to a mythical sex fairy, enjoys plenty of promiscuous sex in Ademre and again when he returns to the University, and is generally desired by every woman he comes across. I propose to you this: Kvothe's sex life is not a fantasy come true, it is a nightmare.

Let's re-cap. He's raped in Tarbean. Which we learn while he is fighting back against Felurian, who is also trying to rape him. Again. Because she already magically compelled him into a drug-like state to have sex. When he returns from the Fae, he has what appears to be consensual sex with Losi, but I'll come back to that in a bit. And then Ademre.

In all, [Vashet] acted as if nothing odd at all had happened. Which mean either nothing odd had happened or something very odd had happened and she was pointedly ignoring it.

Which meant that everything was lovely, or everything was going terribly wrong...
Normally, if I had a question about the Adem culture, I asked Vashet. She was my touchstone. But I could imagine too many ways for that conversation to go astray, and her goodwill was all that stood between me and the loss of my fingers.

As a person very well-acquainted with the world and culture outside of Ademre, as Kvothe's teacher, as someone ten years his senior, as someone both more physically powerful than him and with significant social standing, Vashet should have known better. He did not have the information he needed to consent and, if you re-read the entire passage in WMF, he isn't terribly enthusiastic about it either. Yes, he wants to have sex. Yes, he is attracted to her. But he is hesitant, and confused, and worried about the consequences of refusing or telling anyone. There are similar issues with Penthe, who does eventually ask permission but not until after this,

"Tonight," I said at last. "Penthe told me she thought I had a fine anger, and that she'd like to share it with me."

Vashet chuckled. "That didn't take very long." She gave me a knowing look. "What happened?"

I blushed a bit. "Ah. She...reminded me the Adem do not consider physical contact particularly intimate."

Vashet's smile grew practically lecherous. "Grabbed hold of you, did she?"

"Almost," I said. "I move more quickly than I did a month ago."

"I doubt you move quickly enough to keep away from Penthe," Vashet said.

That's not nearly as bad as Vashet, since Penthe doesn't physically grab him. However, he's drunk at the time, she still outranks him and is more physically powerful, and he doesn't know what she means by "anger" yet. Also, until this point, he was unsure if they were even flirting.

After my conversation with Penthe, I felt considerable better. I was uncertain as to whether or not we had been flirting, but that hardly mattered. It was enough for me to know there was at least one person in Haert who didn't want me dead.

Next, we have all of the women and girls who approach Kvothe constantly throughout the books. They range from fellow students to serving girls to fellow musicians. Most are older than him, because he is described as young both by University standards and at the Eolian. None of it qualifies as assault, but it is nauseating to sit through.

Finally, I said we'd get back to Losi. She approaches him before he goes into the Fae, when he is sixteen. Depending on how long he is in Fae, and the specific laws in Vintas, she might have just barely missed committing statutory rape. However. Laws are for people who don't have an understanding of the Lethani. And someone who waits around, counting down until the very minute a person is legally able to consent... well, it's giving pedophilia. And since Losi is far from the only older woman to treat Kvothe in this manner, if you wanted to level that accusation against most (if not all) of the characters who have lusted after Kvothe through the series... well, I wouldn't stop you.

All of this together paints a clear picture-- Kvothe is living out the tropes usually assigned to women characters in many fantasy, and also many romantasy, books. He is desired by everyone of the opposite sex, has a tragic "orphaned and raped" backstory, is taken advantage of by his teachers, lied to, drugged, and otherwise manipulated into sex by older women, and all of it is "justified" because well, he's just so mature for his age! Even as a child he was an old soul. And look at him, so pretty! And he is clearly interested in women and flirtatious so that's the same thing as wanting it, right? KKC is all about subverting tropes and this is the biggest subversion of them all.

(IV) SOME THEORY EXPANSION PACKS

There are quite a few theories that fall out or are enhanced quite naturally from this framework. I'll keep it (relatively) brief as each of these items could be its own lengthy post.

The homunculus/puppet/mommet theory is worse than you think This theory more or less proposes that the Shapers created grams/mommets out of people. It is easily adapted to suggest that not only does the mommet have their free will stripped from them, but so does the person who "gives birth" to one. Vashet gives our best foreshadowing:

She gave a soft smile of remembrance. "My poet king actually believed a woman was nothing more than the ground in which a man might plant a baby."

The ground being also earth or clay, this is an ominous clue to how the Shapers might treat some people as nothing more than crucibles for their craft. To borrow from Kilvin, they're not just making a bad thing, they're making a bad thing in a bad way.

The Ruh and Perial The Edema Ruh are associated with both clay and water. I mentioned above why the clay might be significant to an alchemist, and Kvothe goes out of his way to explain how much heat water can hold for sympathy. These two things together make me believe that the Ruh were (1) raised like cattle by the Shapers, and (2) hunted down to end the practice of Shaping. Included in all of this symbolism is the color red, for clay (red earth), and for a hart (male red deer). This puts a new spin on Perial, who is "pure of heart". Rengen leads the town march to Perial's door and has a "mistress who [he pays] to lie with" him. Could be that Rengen is Ruh, Perial is his mistress, Menda is their child, and also the vessel which holds Tehlu.

Lanre's betrayal Lanre, I think, follows the same path as Alveron. He fights side-by-side with Lyra as an equal before he betrays her. He then both repents and holds himself accountable for his actions. Lyra showed him the evil inherent in Shaping a Mommet, and he tries to make it right by "[salting] the earth" (i.e. hunting the Ruh to extinction) as a way to prevent anyone else from making that same mistake again.

How the human amyr may have lost their way I'm starting with the assumption that the history of the human amyr parallels the original Amyr and also that the current amyr are headquartered (lol) at the University. At least some of the Masters are interested in trying to resurrect the old magics. Kilvin, for example, collects old Shaping creations and is trying to recreate the ever-burning lamp. If any of the masters (cough) is trying to reclaim the power to create human grams, it does not bode well for the students. Especially not since we have a metaphorical horse stable (Mews) and a lot of reasons to connect horse/whores to rape. There's also the Rookery, which reminds me of the burial grounds for the Duke of Gibea.

I'm worried for the women students confined to a single wing of Mews, but also for the men students. It is Vashet who offers us some warning:

"You respect a thing by putting it to good use," she said. "It may be years before I return to the barbarian lands and fight. How does it harm my sword if it cuts kindling and carrots in the meantime?" Vashet's eyes grew serious. "To carry a sword your whole life, knowing it was only for killing..." She shook her head, "what would that do to a person's mind? It would be a horrible thing."

It's cruel to reduce a woman to just her womb, but it's also cruel to tell a man that his penis has not served any purpose unless it's been inside a woman. What might that do to someone's mind? Crack it, perhaps. And is it so outlandish to propose that the Master Namer was searching for how to become a Master Shaper? He was researching something when he and Alder Whin cracked.

Kvothe's gram The Shapers aren't the only ones who made a gram in a bad way. Kvothe made his gram by lying to Kilvin to get stocks clearance for precious metals, lying to Kilvin about what he used the precious metals for, reading a banned book, and hiding it from the scrivs who are supposed to be keeping the material out of students' hands. Which begs the question, is Kvothe on the same path as Tehlu and/or Lanre? Should we interpret this as evidence that the terrible disaster in the frame is because he is a metaphorical (or literal) rapist? He certainly feels guilty enough.

I think not. Remember the demons in Trapis' story and compare them to Kvothe's actions. Kvothe would ride a horse until it died to reach Trebon, he would lie and steal (frequently), he would poison an entire troupe and kill them all... but he wouldn't let anyone into Auri's "underthing" without asking her, he wouldn't ravage Fela while he was drugged, he wouldn't even force Krin to drink the antidote to the poison. And that's because while he created a gram in a bad way, he didn't make it in the worst way. He didn't escape punishment from Kilvin when it finally came. He didn't involve anyone who didn't fully know what crimes they were committing or who didn't have the opportunity to dissent. In fact,

"I'm sorry to drag you into this, but you're the only one..."

Fela waved her hands in negation. "None of that. I told you to ask if you ever needed a favor, and I'm glad you did."

And also,

I smiled. "Fela has agreed to help me search the Archives for the schema." I gestured toward the two of them. "If the two of you care to join us, it will mean long, grueling hours in close contact with the most beautiful woman this side of the Omethi River."

"I might be able to spare some time," Wilem said casually.
Simmon grinned.

Clear, informed, enthusiastic consent.

Wrapping it up... You can ask me again, why make this about sex instead of power? Because when we put all of this together, we see that Kvothe is not following the path of Tehlu or Encanis or Aethe or Jax. He isn't the fool who fell from the Lethani and must now make amends. He is Edema Ruh down to his bones. Clay. A red deer. He is Perial, Lyra, Rethe, the Moon. A gender-swap indeed.

TLDR;

The world rules feel like a video game, or the Matrix, or TRON. I think the KKC world(s) may have been a video game with AI that got out of control.

This is out there, but hear me out.

E'lir = seeing computer code

Elodin says a true E'lir can see the world as it truly is. Puppet says the Kvothe will one day be a true E'lir. When Kvothe is in his battle with Felurian, the way he sees the world then reminds me of when Neo sees the Matrix as computer code. Where speaking a name is sort of like speaking a password. I wonder if being E'lir means that you see the computer code behind each entity in the world.

Secrets, access level

Elodin says that the arcanum is about secrets. Elodin says he first called the name of the wind because Elxa Dahl wouldn't tell him the advanced sympathy bindings. Kilvin witholds certain sygaldry runes. Secret security is a fundamental piece of software development. I think there are some really big secrets that we haven't heard about yet that are important in the KKC world. Like a god-level secret that would let you see the names of all things or shape the world.

Shapers have very high access levels

The "shapers" of old had a privileged level of access in the system, and could make whatever they wanted. Iax was "set beyond the doors of stone", I think, because that was the only way to stop him. sort of like how you can quarantine malware.

Security measures

The Edema Ruh and the Adem are a kind of security software. Kvothe talks about the moral code of the Edema Ruh, and he executes the entire group of false troopers based on the Edema Ruh's idea that rape is unforgivable. The Adem have the Lethani that guides their decisions. The Edema Ruh's moral code might be cultural. But the Adem's Lethani is something you feel. This seems like something was programmed into the Adem, and the idea that Kvothe seems to have a good understanding of the Lethani lends weight to the theory that The Adem and the Edema Ruh have common origins (similar names).

What if someone created a game. A game with AI NPCs. And what if one of these AI gained control of the system--getting access to the secrets and authorization credentials at a very high level? That's what I'm reminded of in this story. Iax had near system level access, and in order to stop him he had to be quarantined.

It may not be a computer simulation, but the way the magics work in this world, it does make sense to think of it as a computer program.

Does anyone think that Chronicler will leave Noware alive in book 3?

I am looking at these pieces of information in each book:

NOTW Kvothe tells chronicler - What makes you think you’re free to walk out of here alive?

WMF Kvothe tells the boy: Please sit and listen I can tell you stories no one has ever heard, and no one will ever hear again.

This leads me to believe that Chronicler will die either from bast, Kvothe, or the Skin Dancer that Bast may have contained inside of him…

What do y’all think?

It's been awhile so I was thinking it's time for another story within a story. The story of the Fastingsway War

“So a young man seeking his fortune goes to the Cthaeh

and takes away a flower. The daughter of the king is deathly ill, and he takes the flower to heal her. They fall in love despite the fact that she’s betrothed to the neighboring prince...”

“They attempt a daring moonlight escape,” Kvothe continued. “But he falls

from the rooftops and they’re caught. The princess is married against her will and stabs the neighboring prince on their wedding night. The prince dies. Civil war. Fields burned and salted. Famine. Plague...”

I know everyone expects to see this play out with Kvothe in book three, rescuing a princess from a sleeping barrow king, but we've seen this part of the Fastingsway story alluded to already.

In WMF Kvothe sneaks up to Ambrose's room and steals Denna's ring. Like in Jax's story, Denna would be the moon, and her ring is a piece of "the moon" that escapes Jax's house. But like the young man in the moonlight escape from Fastingsway, Kvothe "falls from the rooftop"

Then the wind gusted, catching the open window and flinging it toward my

head. I brought up my arm to protect my face, and it struck my elbow instead, smashing one of the small panes of glass. The impact pushed me sideways onto my right foot, which slid the rest of the way out from underneath me.

Then, since all my other options seemed to be exhausted, I decided it would

be best if I fell off the roof.

But that scene has even more significance because when Kvothe's elbow smashed the pane of glass, he left behind his blood, which he believes is what leads to the malfeasance against him.

Wilem slouched into a chair. “What makes a man cold, then hot, then cold

again?”

Simmon’s expression was horrified, his eyes wide, his hands covering his

mouth. He said something, but I was too busy concentrating to listen. I already knew what he was saying, anyway: malfeasance. Of course. This was all malfeasance. Someone was attacking me.

Now what if the young man from the Fastingsway War was a Ciridae. A Ciridae who had fallen in love with a princess who was missing, or kidnapped, or stolen, and when he came to rescue her from the evil prince, he had power burning in his chest

I recognized him then. **It wasn’t a leaf on his chest. It was a tower wrapped

in flame**. His bloody, outstretched hand wasn’t demonstrating something. It was making a gesture of rebuke toward Haliax and the rest. He was holding up his hand to stop them. This man was one of the Amyr. One of the Ciridae.

“I can kill you,” Selitos said, then looked away from Lanre’s

expression suddenly hopeful. “For an hour, or a day. But you would return, pulled like iron to a loden-stone. Your name burns with the power in you. I can no more extinguish it than I could throw a stone and strike down the moon.”

but the Ciridae fell from the rooftops during the daring moonlight escape. He fought, fell, rose again, fell again...

Proud Lanre, strong as the spring

Steel of the sword he had at ready hand.

Hear how he fought, fell, and rose again,

To fall again. Under shadow falling then.

then after the daring moonlight escape failed, the princess is married against her will, and she stabs the neighboring prince on their wedding night

Selitos drew a deep breath. “By my eye I was deceived, never

again….” He raised the stone and drove its needle point into his own eye. His scream echoed among the rocks as he fell to his knees gasping. “May I never again be so blind.”

But before all of that, the "evil prince" was just a prince. An entitled prince, proud as a hawk, similar to a Modegan Lord Kellin that we see Denna with at the Eolian

The man at her side was proud as a hawk and handsome, with a jawline

like a cinder brick. He wore a shirt of blindingly white silk and a richly dyed suede jacket the color of blood. Silver stitching. Silver on the buckle and the cuff. He looked every bit the Modegan gentleman...

and in NOTW, Ben asks Kvothe how he'd knock a hawk out of the sky because the hawk has "said something uncouth about his mother", and Kvothe states that if he had one of the hawk's feathers, he could knock the hawk out of the sky by binding it to the feather

“I’d bind it to the bird and lather it with lye soap.”

Ben furrowed his brow, such as it was. “What kind of binding?”

“Chemical. Probably second catalytic.”

A thoughtful pause. “Second catalytic…” He scratched at his chin. “To

dissolve the oil that makes the feather smooth?”

Lye soap is caustic. It "burns" but there's no flame. So the Modegan hawk prince would "burn", and the oil on his feathers would dissolve... but he would not burst into flame.

Though he was held away from the fire itself, the heat was so intense

that Encanis’ clothes charred black and began to crumble without bursting into flame.

and the beautiful Modegan hawk prince would be covered in the dissolved oil, no longer able to fly, but he still has the wings that were given to him, so that he might go where he wished.

The voice came from a man who sat apart from the rest, wrapped in

shadow at the edge of the fire. Though the sky was still bright with sunset and nothing stood between the fire and where he sat, shadow pooled around him like thick oil. The fire snapped and danced, lively and warm, tinged with blue, but no flicker of its light came close to him. The shadow gathered thicker around his head. I could catch a glimpse of a deep cowl like some priests wear, but underneath the shadows were so deep it was like looking down a well at midnight.

but the Modegan prince refuses to die, and so prince becomes High King of Modeg, a King who knows the inner turnings of the Ciridae whose moonlight escape failed to rescue the princess

“The high king took the screwdriver and motioned the boy to come closer.

Trembling with excitement, the boy did. Then the high king took the golden screwdriver and put it in the boy’s belly button.”

“Who knows the inner turnings of your name, Cinder?” The words

were spoken with a slow patience, like a schoolmaster reciting a forgotten lesson.

Cinder wrapped shaking arms around his midsection and hunched

over, closing his eyes. “You, Lord Haliax.”

The War came, over a princess and mother. A hawk prince came to her in a dream, and she gave birth to a son who was beautiful, jaw like a cinder brick, the same as his father. The son of himself.

And because this hawk had come to her in a dream, people would say uncouth things about the boy's mother, the princess, they make jokes about 'trying on her hat'. They say his mother is his wife, since he is the 'son of himself'.

So the son of himself decided to make his High King hawk father go away. He decided to kill him... but no, he couldn't bring himself to kill his own father. So the young man went to a tree, and he asked it for a favor. He asked for a charm to make his father go away, and paid for it with his blood.

Then the boy took the charm away from the tree, and he gave it to his mother, the princess. To keep her safe, even from himself. Because the son of himself knows that his face is just a mask, and beneath it there is something dark and ruthless. There is anger in his eyes.

“What if sending him en’t enough? What if I grow up like my da? I get so…” His voice

choked off, and his eyes started to leak tears. “I’m not good. I know it. I know better than anyone. Like you said. I got his blood in me. She needs to be safe. From me. If I grow up all twisted, she needs the charm to…she needs something to make me go a—”

Just me trying to get some music to listen to side by side reading the book for the thousandth time

Okay so this is a bit of a weird one but I’d love ideas from the fandom. I want to get a wood etching tattoo and the style really goes well with a medieval vibe. I thought it’d be really cool to get something representative of the series in that style and wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions. Top of my head I can think of a lute but anything else would be great. Thanks

I'm finishing the second book, I went through the arc with Feluriana, which I already had spoilers for, so I already knew what to expect. We saw our dear Kvothe learn the arts of love if we can say so. It was actually a part of the book that I really liked, not because of that, but because it presents a more fantastic "magical" part, like Alice in Wonderland, if that's the case.

Right after this arc we see our Kvothe leaving the world of enchantments, thus returning to the world of mortals. In one of the taverns he meets a woman called Losi. Everyone at the inn is amazed that Kvothe came out of Felurian's hands alive. Let's say he flirts with Losi and right there in that tavern they make love, until then I thought it was natural, since the two of them had already had a certain flirtation in the past.

Finally I get to Ademre's arc and I think you can already imagine the point that irritated me and even made me uncomfortable reading it, when he and his Ketan teacher, Vashet, have sex. Friends, this left me with an uncomfortable feeling, it wasn't something I was expecting but at the same time it was so predictable? It bothered me that after he had sex with Feluriana, every woman he met became a potential person for him to have sex with. As if the protagonist was the badass in this regard. I wonder if anyone else was bothered or felt it was unnecessary? I write this after reading this specific chapter so I really don't know if there will be an important consequence related to this. This discomfort made me create a certain theory: Is Kote 100% sincere with Chronicler? Doesn't he, at a certain point, add to his story and by deceiving the chronicler he also deceives us? I confess that this part of the book was a little disappointing for me. Has anyone else had this same feeling?

I am coming off fresh as I just finished The Wise Man’s Fear 2-3 hours ago.

Firstly, I absolutely despise these 2 books for coming into my life in the middle of my final exams, my gpa dropped but I don’t regret it. I am not an avid reader, more-so the type to read every now and then if I find a good book and this book had me hooked.

Thoughts on the actual books:

The Name of the Wind: I absolutely adored this first book. Extremely consistent in quality and I loved kvothe’s retelling the whole way through and I loved the small interlude break right from the start even though normally I’d dislike that kind of stuff in stories. It’s as close to a 10 out of 10 as anything I’ve ever consumed and I can’t praise it enough.

The Wise Man’s Fear: The sequel was weird. I still loved it but I can’t help but feel like some parts of it were just way too slow (even for KKC’s slow pace) and were a little dragged out. My least favorite part of it, and honestly my least favorite part across the two books, were the Felurian chapters since while it provided a good background on the Fae and gave Kvothe the shaed, I wasn’t impressed and I even looked up if i can skip it halfway through.

Nevertheless, other than that and some parts of the Adem chapters, I still loved it. 9/10 and I absolutely hate how bittersweet this book left Denna and Kvothe’s relationship at the end considering the unlikely chance of us getting a third book.

Thoughts on other things (characters, and the like):

Kvothe: I cannot express how much I love and loathe Kvothe. He’s an absolute gem of a character and I really liked his development (slow as it is), but his narration and character really shined. Goat.

Denna: I love Denna. She is absolutely just Kvothe if he was a woman, and they both frustrated me just as much but I still really liked her inclusions and the brief glimpses that we do manage to get of her true character. Can you tell I have a soft spot for b-plot romance?

Kvothe and Denna: I know tragedy’s just around the corner for these two if we ever come to pass it in book 3, but I really do like them together. I don’t really understand the other pairings since they just never seemed like pairings Kvothe would ever let happen, and they probably wouldn’t mature anyways with how much Denna seemingly lingered in his mind even in her absence.

Simmon and Wil: I really like them and I was really disappointed not to see much from them in TWMF past Kvothe leaving for Vintas, the trio’s banter always made it seem like it’s the closest connection Kvothe’s ever had outside his family and seeing that it wasn’t really explored much further in TWMF was a disappointment but it didn’t detract from the book too much. Also Sim and Fela are a dope pairing.

Ambrose: Twat.

University and Imre characters: Elodin is fascinating and I love how TWMF expanded more on him. I like Kilvin. I really like Fela and the brief interactions we get with her. Mola’s cool. I adore Devi. Manet got 2 mentions in TWMF iirc. Sovoy died off somewhere.

Other Characters: The maer is really cool and I wanted to see more of him. The Ademic being a hippie sex cult was an odd addition, but I still really liked Vashnet and I want justice for Tempi most of all.

Quick list of my personal theories and what I think will happen:

-Kvothe indirectly kills Denna as part of a scrap with Cinder -the missing lackless lady was kvothe’s mother (especially with the weird things his mother knew iirc) -Kvothe gets kicked out of university somehow cause of that fake pregnancy note he sent to ambrose (cause i can’t for the life of me image that leading nowhere -Book 3 releases in 2 months

(Excuse me for any inconsistencies in writing this, I just wanted to ramble while it’s still fresh in my mind so I can never think about this series again and steel myself immediately for the wait. How did people do this for 13 years?)

Please forgive my spelling of names, I have only listens to the audiobooks.

Has there ever been a theory that Master Lauren banned quothe from the archives for the following reasons:

1: As punishment for swindling the book dealer in Tarbien. ( His passion of books driving this.)

2: To have puppet remove all books about the Amir and Chandrian and move them Master Laurens private collection to spite quothe from his goals?

Just got notification that my B/W special pressing through Grim Oak Press has shipped. Forgot about it tbh so it's going to make a lovely Christmas gift to myself. Did anyone else get any of the special editions? Would love to see the special special editions—especially a picture of the hand lettered version. Hope everyone enjoys their copies if they got one!

"Metal rusts, I thought, music lasts forever. Time will eventually prove one of us right." notw end of ch 60

I'm reading the books once again and when I got to this line I got to thinking about the Adem swords.

When Kvothe comes back from the Adem he asks Kilvin. Kilvin says that there are some anchient artifacts like that but that the knowlege of how to make them has been lost.

Considering what Felurian says about old magic. I'm thinking they might both be right. Do you think the Adem swords were made by the singers?

"I would play until i got the feeling right, i would play until it sounded like warm grass and cool breeze"

Wich you think is the most interesting "something other than song" to hear?

•Warm Grass and Cool Breeze

•Wind Turning a Leaf

•Sun Setting Behind the Clouds

•Bird Taking a Drink

•Dew in the Bracken

•Riding in the Wagon with Ben

•Singing with Father by the Fire

•Watching Shandi Dance

•Grinding Leaves When it Is Nice Outside

•Mother Smiling..

•Waiting While it Rains

•Snow Falling with the Late Autumn Leaves

•Calloused Fingers on a Lute with Four Strings

•3 Years waterside in tarbean with a hollowness inside you and bitter hands from the cold (Played on Josn Lute)

•Sitting by the water remembering (Played after the battle with Felurian)

•The song that hides in the center of Kvothe (played for Vashet)

Just finished the first book and enjoyed it a lot but I've only just realised the whole 3rd book fiasco. I'm not entirely surprised about another fantasy series turning into ASOIAF but I'm just wanting to know whether it's worth reading the second? Any excuse to jump back into a world full of skin walkers, magic and beasts is enough for me. I don't need 100% satisfaction from an ending.

There's a song in Tamil which has a line

"Saaga varam Pol oru soogam undo" "Theera kadaiyai ketpar undo"

The 1st line translates to - "Is there a worse sadness than immortality"

And the 2nd line translates to - "For will anyone listen to a story that doesn't end"

I was listening to this song and released this relates soo well with KKC.

1st line is for Lanre and the 2nd for US.

As someone who really prefers to avoid explicit sex scenes in her reading, I would love to learn if they're confined to particular chapters or if they're more frequent than that before I buy the book.

When Kvothe names Felurian is described that he sings her name in four hard notes, i know it's all very unclear, but what are your deep thoughts about this? Kvothe saw her name and just sang it divided, or he "feels" her name as a song and just hum the notes? was a word singed? or pure music? it's supposed that names aren't words but the truly essence of things, words are paints but names are the real things painted, so Kvothe Say that he saw four lines of music clearly penned in Felurian eyes, what are "music lines" in this context?

I'd love to recommend the book for someone I know, but I have no clue how to describe it the best. He doesn't read fantasy/sci-fi books, so I tried to tell him that it's different, but I'm terrible at explaining books. Could someone help me with it? (Also, sorry if my English is not correct)

Background I pieced most of this theory together a while ago as I was browsing through some older comments and posts on this sub. I made a throwaway comment about it on a more recent thread (Runes : r/KingkillerChronicle) and, understandably, there was a request for clarification. I've never posted before, so I'm not really sure of the etiquette when you're piecing together a theory from a lot of other peoples' posts, but here are links to some discussions from which I drew a lot of ideas (there are more in the post). I probably missed some, so go ahead and drop more references in the comments if you find them.

• Cinder's deep name isn't what you think it is. : r/KingkillerChronicle
• Funny thing I noticed : r/KingkillerChronicle
• Ferrule is the name of Iron, and Cinder is of the Fae. : r/KingkillerChronicle
• I don’t think Cinder’s true name is Ferule. : r/KingkillerChronicle

tldr; The Adem poem about the Chandrian is misleading us about Ferule's sign. The most popular interpretation is Ferule = (chill) and (dark of eye), but this theory proposes that it's really Ferule = (chill and dark) of eye. When Haliax says Ferula and Cinder is overcome with pain, that is Haliax using the name of iron against Stercus.

Contents

1. Sowing doubt about Cinder = Ferule
2. Possible hints that Cinder = Stercus
3. Consequences of Cinder = Stercus

1. SOWING DOUBT THAT CINDER = FERULE

The belief that Cinder and Ferule are the same person is so widely held that it would be negligent to assert Cinder is really Stercus without first addressing the Ferule issue. As I see it, there are four main supporting facts for this popular theory: (1) suggestions of ice and cold in Cinder's presence, (2) the Mauthen pot depicts Cinder standing on a lake of ice, (3) Haliax uses Ferula to discipline Cinder, and (4) the Adem poem about the Rhinta. I do not contest the first two items in the slightest. Cinder is associated with ice and that is Cinder standing on the frozen lake. The second two items leave room for interpretation.

Here is the famous Ferula passage:

"You are a tool in my hand," the shadowed man interrupted gently. "Nothing more."

A hint of defiance touched Cinder's expression. He paused. "I wo--"
The soft voice went as hard as a rod of Ramston steel. "Ferula."
Cinder's quicksilver grace disappeared. He staggered, his body suddenly rigid with pain.
"You are a tool in my hand," the cool voice repeated. "Say it."
Cinder's jaw clenched angrily for a moment, then he convulsed and cried out, sounding more like a wounded animal than a man. "I am a tool in your hand," he gasped.
"Lord Haliax."
"I am a tool in your hand, Lord Haliax," Cinder amended as he crumpled, trembling, to his knees.
"Who knows the inner turnings of your name, Cinder?" The words were spoken with a slow patience, like a schoolmaster reciting a forgotten lesson.

It is clearly implied that Ferula is Cinder's name, between his reaction to the word and Haliax's follow-up question about the "inner turnings" of his name. Implication isn't proof, however. Here is Bast reacting the name of iron:

"Iron," he said. His voice sounding with strange resonance, as if it were an order to be obeyed.

Bast doubled over as if punched in the stomach, baring his teeth and making a noise halfway between a growl and a scream. Moving with an unnatural, sinuous speed, he drew one hand back to the side of his head and tensed himself to spring.

So Cinder reacts to Ferula in much the same way that Bast react to the name of iron: bowled over, clutching his stomach, making an animal-like noise. It also is nothing like the way that Felurian reacts to her name being called.

She met my eyes, and in the twilight written there I saw again the four clear lines of song.

I sang them out. They burst from me like birds into the open air.
Suddenly my mind was clear again. I drew a breath and held her eyes in mine. I sang again, and this time I was full of rage. I shouted out the four hard notes of song. I sang them tight and white and hard as iron. And at the sounds of them, I felt her power shake then shatter, leaving nothing in the empty air but ache and anger.
Felurian gave a startled cry and sat so suddenly that it was almost like a fall. She curled her knees toward herself and huddled, watching me with wide and frightened eyes.

That leaves the door open to consider that Ferula isn't Cinder's name but perhaps something else. Here is Kvothe explaining how sigaldry works and dropping the name of the rune for iron:

But only if the bricks are made of clay. Most bricks aren't. So, generally, it is a better idea to mix iron into the ceramic of the brick before it is fired. Of course, that means you have to use fehr instead of aru.

And shortly after that, we learn that ule is for binding. So ferula is the binding of iron. Which really just leaves one final burr in the blanket, and I'll admit it's a doozy-- "ferule" and "ferula" are virtually identical. It is not in the least bit unreasonable to look at those two words standing next to each other and conclude that they are the same. I wouldn't argue that Haliax wasn't also Alaxel, or that Iax wasn't also Jax. But, for the sake of a fun theory, let's continue to suspend our disbelief for a few more minutes. We do after all, have several things that pretend to be other things (bandits who pretend to be Ruh, human Amyr who pretend to be real Amyr, water that could be confused with alcohol, and Fae who might look like mortals), so why not? Do you remember when Bast interrupts Sheyn's story?

"There are things every Fae child knows. It's never good to speak such things aloud. Not ever."

"And why is that?" Kvothe prompted in his best teacher's voice.
"Because some things can tell when their names are spoken," Bast swallowed. "They can tell where they're spoken."

Why didn't hearing "ferula" elicit the same panicked response? Possibly because "ferula" was only one of the Chandrian's names, but that would seem to contradict Bast's assertion that the names should be spoken "not ever". So maybe that small difference between "ferule" and "ferula" matters after all.

Speaking of the Adem poem, this is the last and most important puzzle piece supporting the Cinder = Ferule theory.

Ferule chill and dark of eye.

This is usually interpreted as "Ferule has dark eyes and it gets cold when he's around". Another way to go would be "Ferule has eyes that are sometimes chill and sometimes dark", the same way that Kvothe's eyes vary from leafy green to dark, almost black. I would interpret "chill" as eyes that are icy blue. Therefore, Ferule is someone with icy blue eyes that change to dark. Since this seems to be a Fae trait, Ferule is also probably Fae. This does not disqualify Cinder from being Ferule (they could both be Fae and have dark eyes), but it does dissociate Ferule from ice and frost.

2. POSSIBLE HINTS THAT CINDER = STERCUS

Okay, so you're probably still not convinced but maybe you're a little more open to hearing alternative identities for Cinder? Let's talk some more about ferula and the impact that the binding of iron has on Cinder. Once again, Sheyn's poem is useful.

Stercus is in thrall of iron.

The word "thrall" here is interesting. It could mean that Stercus is enamored with iron, works with iron, or is under the control of iron. Knowing Rothfuss, I think it's all of these and then some. Cinder "works with iron" as a swordsman. His sword is important enough to his sign that it is included on the Mauthen pot, as prominently as the frozen lake that we were so sure meant he was Ferule. And if we allow that ferula is the binding of iron, then Cinder certainly reacts as one who is under the controlment of iron when Haliax uses it to reign him in. I would go even further and say that Stercus is under the control of Ferule, who is also Lord Haliax (i.e. owes fealty to himself), but that's a theory for another day.

Our other big hint about Stercus is in Cinder's name. A cinder is the piece of fire that remains after the main fire has burned out, or the waste that is produced when working with metals (also called dross). Putting that all together, the name Cinder seems to reference--

• a fire that has gone out (cold)
• a forged metal tool, e.g. a sword
• the carnage of a battle, as in "the Blacc of Drossen Tor" (I'm stretching a little here, but I think it's warranted)
• a by-product of an alchemical reaction

Stercus is Latin for excrement, which means that both cinder and stercus refer to waste products. Bonus, we get an alchemy reference! Put that together with the "tool in my hand" quote and we have a good connection to one of my favorite theories by u/Smurphilicious, the Sympathy Mommet (Clay Mommets, Porcelain Golems, and the Runes for Blood and Bone : r/KingkillerChronicle and How to make a Sympathy Marionette : r/KingkillerChronicle).

3. CONSEQUENCES OF CINDER = STERCUS

Something that I really like about this theory is that it plays well with some of my other favorites. I've already referenced the Sympathy Mommet, but I also have a fondness for Elodin = Master Ash. Since we've stated that Ferule has blue eyes that sometimes go dark, as opposed to eyes like a goat, we have more evidence to support Elodin = Ferule = Master Ash. If you're not a fan of Elodin = Master Ash, then that's probably not helping to win you over, but it makes me happy.

There is, however, a pretty serious problem with Cinder = Stercus. If you're not already familiar with [Spoilers] The Chandrian, The Cities They Betrayed, How They Betrayed Them, and The Evidence. : r/KingkillerChronicle, then today is your lucky day. It's a great post that works through the Chandrian and their signs in the various poems and rhymes that we have. The Cinder = Stercus theory disrupts the chart in multiple ways. I really, really want you to read it, so I'm only going to recreate the parts that relate to this theory post and drop my own interpretations. For the most part, the only changes I made were to switch Ferule and Stercus' signs, but I also brought in "rocks" instead of "box" for Ferule's skip rhyme. I think it works better with the son/legacy/dick joke theme of his row.

And that, as far as I am concerned, is the most compelling piece of evidence so far that Cinder = Stercus. Look at Stercus' row! He's a door without a handle... that is a shit dad joke and it has Rothfuss written all over it. "Crow" is also slang for shit, so that's another clue that fits Stercus better than Ferule.

Finally (and this is going beyond the scope of this post but I'm too excited about it), this puts in a place a metaphor where Ferule and Stercus are brothers. Afterall, cinder/dross is what is left over after a sword is made, and Ferule is represented here by a broken sword. That's plenty consanguinity to start working some sympathy. What's more, if you read the original post, they posit that Ferule commits patricide when he betrays his city. I'd be willing to bet that Haliax is the father that is murdered so that Ferule becomes Lord Haliax, which is the secret he's keeping. That's also why Haliax is a "man with no face". It's a reference to the shadow hame, yes, but also to the fact that it's a title and not just a person. Unfortunately, anything more about that theory and its consequences would require much more real estate and I've already taken up too much time.

WRAPPING IT UP

If you made it this far, thank you so much for reading my very first post. There's precious little that's original here, and I hope I've given appropriate credit to the many people who have worked hard on these theories over the years. I love digging through the sub's archives for true gems of theories, and this has been one that I keep coming back to over and over again. Even if I didn't persuade you, I hope you had some fun exploring this idea with me. If there's anything you think I could expand upon some more, or if I neglected to credit someone appropriately, please let me know.

At a friend's request, I'm listening to the audiobook for The Name of the Wind, and... I just don't care. The world is impressive, but the Kvothe doesn't interest me. He's automatically the best at everything, but he never uses his ability to help anyone but himself. Almost every thing he does is about trying to get more money for his own use. Thus far, he has saved one student from a fire, and I seriously cannot think of another example.

Does the second book get better? Does he ever help anyone in a way that doesn't benefit him?

https://preview.redd.it/yjk760v2sz6e1.jpg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=805595ed6481b3b46c6276d283b794a2f6c0c766

This post simply asumes that tarot cards are relevant for KKC and explains some of the meaning that would come from that in regards to the seven of swords.

I choose the seven of swords first among the minor arcana for two reasons. One is the number obviously the other is the fact that the swords in tarot signifie the elemnt of air.

The man on the picture is a thief. He steals five out of the seven swords from a camp. What is propably not obvious to the modern observer of the picture is that the thiefs attire is that of a nomad. It portraits the stereotype of the stealing nomad (ruh) but also of the clever thief and trickster. The succesfull but not masterfull thief. The two swords left behind signifie the armed enemies he leaves behind. His deeds are not left unnoticed.

This is why in a laying of the cards if encountered it stands for pulling of a trick. Gaining soemthing from someone by bending or breaking the rules but also having to fear be found out or outright beeing noticed in the act. This can very much include infedelity. Beeing the affair hiding around behind a husbands (or wifes) back. Not only because of the ophalic symbol of the sword but also because the dynamics of a tricksters ruse and an affair are quite smiliar. This points us towards the negative aspects of the card. The reputation that the trickster live entails. The reputation of a thief a liar a casanova. In other words the flipside of the seven of swords is the gossip behind your backs. that is equaly poorly hiden as the tricksters deeds.

The seven of swords encompasses many of the negative aspects of the magician card. Both are tricksters but the positive magician unites the opposits while the seven of cards sows conflict and thereby divides. (mostly himself from others). The amgician acts in wisdome and is aware of consequences the seven of swords is an airhead. One who follows his clever ideas and ruses. Half the magician and half the fool.

If the seven of swords in fact is relevant in the context of KKC then the tradgidy of the story is that kvoth (the thieving ruh) becomes a magician (arcanist). His true talents lie in deception and this is amplified by his arcane knowleadge. And it already happend as well. His carefully crafted ruse of a reputation that turnes on him and goes sour. We already saw the seeds of this downfall. Is talk of kvoth the kingkiller the chandrian anything else than gossip behind his back.

If i had to make a prediction on the basis of this card i would expect that his two enemys (the two swords he left behind), the ones he made due to his trickster antics, ambrose and meluan join forces against him and spread rumors about him. Ambrose propably already tried this considering kvoths problems in finding an inn or a patron.

Some much for the seven of swords.

Thanks for your attention and have a nice day folks.

When kvothe and devi have their fight. Kvothe binds devi to the mommet with her hair on it. He uses ash from a fire pit earlier to use as a source. But how does this whole scenario work out so that she is not able to move and why fire as a source is required ? I cant understand how the fire as a source is stopping her and holding her.

Chapter 52 made me chuckle

Title. Haven't been able to find it anywhere after searching on every major site, including Gollancz's own website. For context, I am from India and willing to pay the shipping.

Mercury, also known as quicksilver, is the key to Kilvin's question in Name of the Wind. How to create an Ever-Burning Lamp

“Kraem. No. Not like this.” Kilvin growled out a couple words and pounded his fist on the table, each thump as his hand came down was accompanied by a staccato burst of reddish light that welled up from his hand. “No sympathy. I do not want an ever-glowing lamp. I want an ever- burning one.” He looked at me again showing his teeth, as if he were going to eat me.

Mercury was the element used when they discovered superconductivity in 1911. It defies "classical physics"

The superconductivity phenomenon was discovered in 1911 by Dutch physicist Heike Kamerlingh Onnes. Like ferromagnetism and atomic spectral lines, superconductivity is a phenomenon which can only be explained by quantum mechanics. It is characterized by the Meissner effect, the complete cancelation of the magnetic field in the interior of the superconductor during its transitions into the superconducting state. The occurrence of the Meissner effect indicates that superconductivity cannot be understood simply as the idealization of perfect conductivity in classical physics.

It is literally perfect conductivity. There is no resistance, no energy loss. It is infinite. An Ever-Burning Lamp.

Unlike an ordinary metallic conductor, whose resistance decreases gradually as its temperature is lowered, even down to near absolute zero, a superconductor has a characteristic critical temperature below which the resistance drops abruptly to zero. An electric current through a loop of superconducting wire can persist indefinitely with no power source.

The critical temperature that mercury needs to be at in order for it to enter this superconductive state is... cold. It needs to be very, very cold.

The one called Cinder sheathed his sword with the sound of a tree cracking under the weight of winter ice. Keeping his distance, he knelt. Again I was reminded of the way mercury moved. Now on eye level with me, his expression grew concerned behind his matte-black eyes. “What’s your name, boy?”

i have read the books in a total of.. 5? times i guess, twice in turkish and three times in english. at one point of my readings i have started to try to figure out the translations in between since we know that there are some of his work that needs to be _definitely_ lost in translation.

i sadly dont have the time nor the patience to use references and therefore my thoughts could be utter bullshit tinfoil but i wanted to talk about some of the things i thought about,

again these could be have been talked about previously on this forum, and i would love to have the elaborations or the disprovements to my points

there was this time in the books that goes like 'some say there is a new chandrian?' between kote and the chronciler i suppose? i think it's denna

i think the chandrians are the people throught the time since lanre, that has been 'through the door of death' then back, due to any reason? in lanre's case it's lyra's naming and we don't know much about the others.

it probably is not something conventional to happen, like a deadly magical sin? think of human transmutation of fullmetal alchemist or gek accidentally casting his shadow of earthsea?

i think when this happens, this somehow ruins the balance of 'the four doors of mind' making all of them no more functional. i'm pretty sure in haliax' case 'not being able to die and wanting to die' is talked about many times, additionally, there is that bit of poem mentioning them 'sane'

in denna's case, i think his sleeplessness is tied to this. the full transforming into a chandrian phase i guess is something gradually deprecating, and since denna have been through the door of death more recently, her symptoms are not THAT bad, as of the others, which also explains the lanre's being good once returned then gradually turn evil ark,

the second door is forgetting and denna almost always perfectly remembers everything which could have ties to her brilliance in arts and crafts and knowledge

kvothe's and her story mirroring eachother and us always hearing the other side of stories from denna, which are almost as exclusively rare as kvothe's stories, like the canon event generatingly detailed songs of his father and denna's about lanre and lyra

her patron is most probably a chandrian or tied to them somehow, as it has been previously discussed many times, which is actually some sort of recruitment, or keeping an eye on? which probably is happening to kvothe somehow as well, even we are not sure who definitely has deeper roots in said stories, also exist in kvothe's life somehow. like lorren being of amyr.

i think the main critical point of the 'tragedy' of kvothe, which almost surely includes denna, is kvothe clashing these two worlds due to his relentless pursuit of denna's master, resulting with the current state of the world.

i'm pretty sure denna said to kvothe something like 'i have been died once before' and i think it is actually true,

this is more like a guess at the main take of the narrative, instead of a collection of references and quotes from the books, and i am open to any points you would like to make on the topic

( A little ) please don’t get me wrong he is such a good character. The suffering he’s been through is sooo true in the writing also and I really think he’s a sick c*nt lol, that being said I’ve just re read the two books for the like 7 time and his confidence verges on arrogance in the second book especially. Sometimes it annoys me but I understand he’s young and it’s just the way people thing - I enjoy all hype he brings about himself and I love the stories and adding to his own reputation and stuff like that, his mischief and his witty remarks and intelligence - but certain aspects about his character have started to annoy me and stood out to me more this time re reading - ESPECIALLY surrounding sex. I get having sex with velurian and waking away is a huge deal I do understand that. But the way he thinks he’s just like soooo good really does my head in sometimes. Probably going to have so much hate for this but can we acknowledge he’s a little bit arrogant and up himself? That being said he’s depressed and lost when he’s older so it’s kinda a full circle but still

[Spoiler]

I have been trying to think long and hard about the subtle hints that were given to why Kote is powerless at this point and it is because he simply is not Kvothe anymore. His name is likely stuck in the Lackless Box. It is why he has not bern able to write his own story. He can't even write his own name. That's why the existence of the chronicler enables him to tell the tale. It is why at the end of Wise Mans Fear, he is eagerly trying to open the box. I believe somehow he had opened the box before and somehow the box (or what was in the box) took his name. Sorry for the ridiculous ramble. My friend and I were discussing this and the subtle hints from the book made me start to realize how many times taking someone's name can change who they are.