Have people here heard about the 'Resilient Jenkins' from TikTok? At what point do you put aside wanting to make more kids so that you can afford to take care if the kids you already have? I get people wanting kids. I get wanting a big family, but you can't neglect the needs children have to continue having more, right?

a big problem that i hear when it comes to having kids is the whole it costs too much mentality. i really only see this as an issue if you are impoverished by 3rd world standards. you'd be surprised how little children actually need in terms of material comforts (just go back a century and you'll find children having like 3 toys if they're lucky). honestly i think it may be better for kids not to have too much materially as i feel we overstimulate kids (like i don't think anyone under the age of 14 should have any electronics at all). honestly i think it would be better for a kid to grow up in poverty (by first world standards) provided the home is functional (loving, two parent, not abusive) than even growing up middle class.

edit: i wrote this suffering from a headache and brainfog. i am usually more careful with picking my words (it doesn't matter anyways. even when i am careful to not give the wrong message i get hate).

Everybody who raises children to be decent and tax-contributing members of society are doing their governments and communities a HUGE service.

Nonetheless, parents take a significant financial hit to their lifestyle and, even, career status.

Let's fix this! Pay parents more!

I know that the data shows that small tax incentives don't work, but the cost of raising a child is upwards of $200,000 these days in the US. Offer an equivalent amount of tax breaks.

Woman after woman posting that she doesn't feel safe getting pregnant anymore, with the politics of restricted abortion access. One poster specifically said that if the general election goes one way she wants 2 kids in the next 4 years, the other way she will delay child bearing at least 4. Another nearly died in a previous miscarriage and due to the way politics affected her care she's afraid to try again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/s/jyE58n4e9N

What do y'all think about the idea that having confident access to comprehensive healthcare affects women's decision to have kids? This includes private decision making with your high risk specialist etc. Heck even access to one. Idaho has lost 55% of their MFM specialists since ’22, they moved out of state and can't find replacements. What's a woman with a twin pregnancy to do? Travel to Oregon for pregnancy care?

https://idahocapitalsun.com/2024/04/05/idaho-is-losing-ob-gyns-after-strict-abortion-ban-but-health-exceptions-unlikely-this-year/#:~:text=Idaho%20lost%2022%25%20of%20practicing,to%20practice%2C%E2%80%9D%20Whitlock%20said.

Name a country that has free access to an array of birth control, abortion for any reason, and 'empowered women' that has a sustainable birthrate?

We don't need Quincy with a magnifying glass rubbing his chin to work out what the problem is here.

I hate to break it to everyone but there is no free stuff policy that's going to get people willingly pumping out 5 kids.

We need to think about this like we're being attacked by a foreign country, no one wants to send their sons into battle to die alone in field bleeding out in pain and misery. But we, as a society, deemed it necessary for our civilisation to survive.

This isn't a war men can fight unfortunately

So I think low birth rates are a very serious and self-evident problem. We can make very accurate predictions about the demographic outlook of most countries and they look ugly. (the amount of 21 years old in 2044 is the amount of 1 year old now, with some adjustments.)

We have seen a negative impact on Europe and East Asia and that is just the beginning. But even acknowledging the problem is too uncomfortable for many and they put their head in the sand or try to derail the conversation, even calling you names for caring about the future of humanity and the reslience and prosperity of the society we live in. The fact that the Antinatalism sub is over 20 times bigger than this one is disappointing.

But I am gald I found this sub and I think what we are doing is extremely important, because whatever the problem is, the movements to adress it always start small. Even if it isn't a popular topic that will get you rounds of applauses everywhere you go, someone had to get the conversation started and must keep it going,

Every piece of data looks terrible, but some now people are starting to discuss it, and some governaments are taking baby steps to try adress the issue. Results aren't great, but at least they are trying.

I am an optimist and I believe both problem will be fixed in my lifetime, although they will get worse before they will get better. Thank you people for supporting this cause

EDIT: I post this videos here (that you may or may not agree with) for the people thinking natalism and economic prosperity or climate change are a contradiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvskMHn0sqQ&t=14s

EDIT 2. Not replying anymore (sleep time), but I am a bit disappointed by some comments. Even if people don't agree, you would think the one choosing to spend time in a natalist subreddit would understand why many of us are worried about birth rates, and I am tired to explains under every comment.

Some people understanding of demography and economics is at the level of a purple Marvel villain.

In the developed world, especially the Anglo-sphere, surveys of the young tend to produce contradictory results:

1. Most young women and men (anywhere between 60-90%) indicate that they want to marry and have kids, usually desiring 2 kids.
2. A plurality (sometimes surveyed as a majority) are uber-liberal/progressive and terrified of climate catastrophe, therefore equally question the morality of having kids (despite usually also wanting them for themselves).
3. Most desire to be 'financially stable' before starting a family but aren't willing to take a risk, change industry and/or move geographically to achieve that stability (e.g. move to a booming region with a resource sector).
4. Most, both men and women, typically aren't interested in "settling down" with a spouse until their 30s.
5. Most aren't willing to sacrifice a career for temporary, full-time parenthood.

The above are contradictory goals;

• If you put career first, you most likely won't have kids.

• Everybody makes financial and career opportunity costs, and most people with kids struggle, at least temporarily. If you're unwilling to take that risk, you won't have kids.

• If you're too picky or laxidisical when looking for a spouse, you most likely won't find one. That means no kids.

• If you sit on the fence about having kids because you're fearful of global trends that are mostly out of your control; chances are you'll wait too long and won't have kids.

Literally none of the above issues can be fixed with a childcare subsidy, a tax credit, parental leave etc. All are personal, culturally-driven issues that impact certain people in society more than others.

Clearly pronatalism needs to appeal to hearts and minds first, before looking into economic causes for the fertility decline.

The main problem with boosting natalism, I feel, is the myth of adolescence extending into adulthood. Adolescence ends maybe 2 years after puberty and that's it.

People should also stop believing that autistic/ADHD people mature later, because that's not biologically true. Autistic people actually have a shorter lifespan.

With increasing disability diagnosis rates, we need to really think critically about what this means. Today, 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 American children has a disability diagnosis. When my parents were growing up it was 1 in 100 and a lot of it was due to accidents and it was less common in urban areas because there was less farm related risks.

Many people point to extended schooling as the issue and while that might be the case (most people shouldn't attend college) technology has made it so that people can learn more information, for example with Youtube, whenever they want.

For everyone who cites Abraham and Sarah having kids later, we should also emphasize that psalm 127 says "Blessed are the children of a man's youth".

While I'm not saying that 13 year olds should be getting married under the current American system, I think we should be looking at the 21-35 set seriously and that they shouldn't be considered basically teens, like they are here in VHCOL.

I think that independence at 18 should be the standard again. Unfortunately the majority of ethnick families don't let people move out at that age. That's why I prefer more dysfunctional sides of the culture here where parents drop kids off at the homeless shelter on their 18th birthday.

I wish I had found my stuff on the curb in trash bags on my 18th instead of my immigrant mom crying when I moved out long after that because we are babied too much in Far East, Mediterranean, Latin American, etc cultures.

Instead, we're looking toward astrology and saying that the "Saturn Return" at age 32 is the age where you become an adult. When that wasn't even the case in medieval astrology, that was the age that people started dying lol. For example, I'm 43 so I'm nearly dead.

What do y'all think of kidults? I definitely think it's somewhat dumb for people to think they need to mature through a partying and frat lifestyle. Most people don't want to climb the corporate ladder or get a PhD, masters degree. That's honestly not what the game plan is for most folks. What happened to "Just having a job". Why are gen z and younger millennials in VHCOL's supposed to go through 9 or 10 different job changes just to pay rent ffs. What are your thoughts about this matter.

For me it's got to be a greater availability of IVF, and more research into making it more effective. I've known too many couples who've made the choice to have a family but mother nature decided against it. The success rate is also very low, seems a good place to spend money.

Thoughts?

I've noticed on this sub especially there is a lot of doomerism about the topic, essentially people saying there is nothing you can do about the topic. This is often a response to people who suggest certain government economic policy to increase births. I'm not sure if these are anti natalist trolls or what but I think this is wrong. Firstly we have seen places with low fertility rates increase, specifically in Kazakhstan, Georgia and Hungary. Furthermore many government programs in nations where this is a problem have just started, just outright saying they will fail is dumb. Also this place has a western bias so I am sure all of you know that immigration is becoming more and more unpopular. The only way for this to be viable is for an increase in birth rates Furthermore in Africa birth rates are declining as well. I think certain people here acting like there is nothing to be done about birth rates are either mis informed or bad faith actors

Doubtless you’ve read about what comedian Tony Hinchcliffe said about Puerto Rico at last night’s rally. He also said that Latinos “love making babies,” adding, “They do. They do. There’s no pulling out. They don’t do that. They come inside. Just like they did to our country.”

How will this impact the public’s thinking about natalism? How will it impact your own?

People are not having enough kids, and I think a dramatic step is required to stop it (I live in the US). Anyone who makes more than 50,000 per year should be taxed 95% for any dollar amount above 50,000. There would be a child tax credit of up to 50,000 per year per child. So someone who makes 500,000 per year would need to have nine biological children to not own anything on taxes. In this society, a shove is required to get people to reproduce. The goal isn't to punish the wealthy; it's to encourage reproduction for those who can afford to.

I am so tired of people on this sub getting upvoted for saying what amounts to "women should prioritize careers over children" but giving no solutions to how that can also result in sustainable fertility.

Maternity leave has been tried (and hurts careers anyway, so self-defeating to hat argument)

Free daycare has been tried.

I think I'm being pragmatic when I say that you can't have a high powered career (I am also sick of posters acting like corporate workers are the norm and everything should cater to their specific needs) and have the energy needed to raise infants.

So those who want all women to be tenured or doctors or run large companies - what would fix fertility rates?

Do not answer free daycare or maternity leave, those haven't worked anywhere.