Taking away choices is a great tragedy of this series. It's so heartbreaking that a channeler who chooses light can be Turned to the forces of Dark. There were many aes sedai, ashaman, aiel male channelers who were Turned against their will.

Do we know how to reverse its effects? Is there anything mentioned in the books that people have found in their reread on any hint for reversing its effects?

Can’t believe I’m finally here. This series has meant the world to me.

I'm currently doing something 9 hours a day that I don't really like. Thankfully, that's only temporary. I have to commute for one hour every day and during that time I listen to the wheel of time audiobooks. Every day it gives me something to look forward to, something that makes my days easier to bear. It's my third time enjoying the series and I'm currently 5 hours into the shadow rising. Thank you Robert Jordan for writing this series, thank you Brandon Sanderson for finishing it and thank you Michael Kramer and Kate Reading for narrating the audio books.

For me it was in the gathering storm in the last few chapters when rand finally destroyed choedan kal and returned to tear and said sorry to tam and introduced him to min like seriously that scene was sooo good like rand was like father i want you to meet someone … this is min and she is kind of special to me like soo good and a hope for a good ending 😭

Spoiler for book 4

Im doing a re-read, and it just now occured to me...Do we ever get told why the Tinkers aren't obviously related to the Aiel? You would think they would carry a majority of the physical traits, or wetlander genetics was more dominate?

I’m already up to page 300. Having trouble putting it down. Really amazing accelerated pace w some dabs of philosophical intrigue and plotting. Old friends reuniting, new characters quickly becoming noble heroes, one dimensional villains gaining depth. Might be my favorite of the series.

I came to the series very late, but glad I finally dove in. I powered through the audiobooks starting in March and just finished two days ago. Im very proud of myself for managing to avoid spoilers. The following are just some thoughts that I had while reading the series probably all well trod ground but I wanted to get my thoughts out.

First while I do find that there are definitely pacing issues in the series, especially when it comes to Perrin, I never had to push myself to get through it. I think it helped me that I knew that there was going to be a change in the writing style as the series went on.

Second when I was deciding on whether or not start the series I watched a spoiler free review that made the claim that Robert Jordan had the best power progression and character development in any fantasy series. I thought that claim was overblown. I was wrong. Wow just wow. I am blown away how well especially our Emmons Fielders progress and grow throughout the series. I hated Nynaeve and Mat in the begining. Both were incredibly annoying and felt like one note foils were Rand and Egwene. By the end I found Nynaeve to be endearing and Mat to be the most fun character in any fiction Ive read.

Third Galad is autistic. That's all.

Fourth I have a theory that Egwene and Nynaeve are Taveren. I think the reason they arent declared in the book is that seeing Taveren is a 'talent' of the Aes Sedai and as we know from other talents in the book that some of them are segregated between Saidar and Saidin. I think its more than possible that none of the male channelers we meet possess this talent or if they do wouldnt understand what it was since they have no history and dont really understand what they can do with the power.

Fifth I hate Egwene's death. I think it's perfectly written I just hate that she dies while no other major character does. I also hate that all the reform she had planned almost certainly dies with her and the White Tower regresses under the Cadsuane.

Sixth Cadsuane sucks as a character. I thought most of the way through she was black aja and would betray Rand at some point. She embodies the worst of the Aes Sedai as much as Elaida. She's petty and arrogant to a fault. She believes she helped Rand but I fail to see how. He was descending towards his confrontation with Tam without her help and her being there changes nothing. Also I hate that Sanderson makes her Amerlyn in the end.

Seventh and last thing, I dont understand why the quadrangle relationship exists. His only real relationship is with Min and the other two just kind of sit on the page. On principle Im not even against polyamory in the story, theres just so little on the page to support it that I dont understand why its there other than they are all very young adults with out of control hormones. Also while I find Aviendha at least to be an interesting character Elayne devolves as the story goes on and exists purely to make bad decisions.

To conclude while the series has its warts, I am absolutely in love with it. My only regret is that I hadnt read it sooner.

Caution. Spoilers ahead (so I don’t get my post removed again, you’ve been warned).

When Verin visited Egwene on that fateful day right before >!the tower was attacked by the Seanchan—I have a nagging question that keeps coming up.!<.

!Verin took poison in her tea in order to reveal to Egwene that she was Black and that she had a whole journal with everything she knew about the Black Ajah.

Here is my question.!<

!Why didn’t Egwene call for help from her Red Ajah guards and tell them that Verin had been poisoned and needed to be healed before she died????!<
!Verin could have still revealed her secrets within the “hour of her death”, Egwene could have hid the books away, and Verin could have been healed from the poison before she died.!<
!We see in other places people being healed from poison. Numerous people have been healed from the poison of a Thakandar blade, Gareth Bryne was also healed from the poison of a Seanchan poisoned needle by Siuan, etc. etc.!<

!It just seems that Egwene had ample time to call for help and have Verin healed from the poison in her tea. It wouldn’t have changed what Verin had revealed. And my dear, dear favorite Sister Verin would still be alive. !<

!Edit: It seems some people aren’t understanding. I do not wish that the scene played out any differently in the end. I think Verin dying made her actions very noble and selfless and made the scene very poignant. I DO wish the plot hole (that I see at least) would have been better taken care of. Like Egwene having to swear to Verin that she wouldn’t try to prevent her death before Verin gave her the cipher to her book of Black sisters.!<

So is it just me or do all of the women who select the Green Ajah do so not because they want to be Warriors and Soldiers, the pointy tip of the spear but because they want a collection of boytoys?

I’m going to be starting my first reread soon and I want to try annotating them as I go. It’s not something I’ve really done before but I really sped through the books on my first read and I think it will help me to remember more details.

Has anyone here annotated the WoT and/or other books? What are some tips, both in a general sense and specifically when it comes to the WoT? (ie, what parts of the text would you focus on and why)

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds!

I just finished chapter 33 of Winter's Heart and Rand refusing to let go of Lan and saying the title line was so awesome. Lan and Rand's relationship is weird but I like their dynamic

So, Aiel use wetlander first and second names because using only their first name is too much like a honey name. I read that as 'endearment'.

But Aiel only have one name. So they are all calling each other endearments all the time?

On umpteenth reread and still don't get what a honey name is supposed to be. Anyone have any ideas?

found out about the Aybaras. The moments after Perrin breaks down, when he starts planning again and Faile is disbelieving that there can be 2 men in this village who are "much better" shots than Perrin, and I'm starting to wonder if 2 Rivers has secretly been a warrior camp this whole time? Rand and Mat have done some really impressive things in combat, but most of those came after Rand was trained by Lan and Mat started experiencing genetic memories from his warrior ancestors and wielding his luck like a weapon. It felt like those were things that could be dismissed as newly acquired abilities in the moment, and Tam's obvious combat abilities came from his time outside 2 Rivers, but I'm not so sure now. Perrin has never been a slouch in combat, and the Wolfbrother shit wouldn't really do anything to teach him how to fight with an axe. They're also all 3 nasty with a bow. In the previous book, Mat thinks about his quarterstaff training from his dad, and I'm beginning to suspect that the village of Manetheren blood named after the battlefield where Manetheren died, which has combat sports during festivals, might actually be upholding the tradition and training of Manetheren, and that the combat abilities the 3 Taveren have displayed might not be Unearned Fantasy MC bullshit. Crack theory, but I'm excited to see what happens when all of the 2 Rivers Folk decide to pick up steel together

I'm at about chapter 51 of LoC and Robert Jordan did an amazing job at making me absolutely despise the Aes Sedai, building an image of them inside my head and tearing it down. The Aes Sedai act like everyone should listen to them because their just so wise and always know what to do even though everybody listens to them because they have magic powers. It's no different from a guy ordering about somebody else because he has a glock and the other doesn't. It seems like every Aes sedai thinks they are so above everybody else and can't possibly fathom having somebody else on their level or working with instead of under them, it's always about "guiding" or "shepherding" everybody else. They can't get it through their thick head that they arent the most powerfull people on earth, they need to work WITH the Dragon reborn, he's not some random king he's the most powerfull channeler on earth/randland who is literally the champion of the light side. Rand and a handful of teenagers are all more competent than the whole white tower, nyaneave and Elayne literally discovered more than the whole white tower did in like a 1000 years(even without the help of the forsaken they discovered how to make ter'angreal and how to Heal stilling) yet barely get acknowledged. They act like their in control and that the dragon is "young and incompetent" yet he has killed multiple forsaken and conquered nations while they have been sitting with their thumbs up their ass. They have no idea how to deal with the forsaken and the dark one, their horrible at their job and think they are demi-gods. Even egwene and Elayne think matt is just a dumb man who isn't on the same plane of existence as them and who they can control. I can't wait for the white tower to get a kick up the ass and get a counterbalance in the form of the Black tower. They act like they have a plan yet can't process the fact that tarmon gai'don is coming and that the world is changing. The only somewhat competent Aes sedai has been moraine, even she has a superiority complex. I just wanted to Ran(d)t a little.

When Egwene goes through the arches to become accepted she asks Sheriam about the Turning. Sheriam explicitly tells her that it is a secret even within the Tower. I know that she must observe the three oaths even if she is black so as not to betray that she is Black in such a trivial way, but it would have been sooooo easy for her to wiggle out of answering. Why does she do it? I think we know she's only in the Black for petty reasons, but she's also not Verin, who is actively trying to work against them, and now she has given information to Egwene while she knows Egwene is connected to Rand and Sheriam should definitely know by now who Rand is.

Egwene is also so very careless talking about Rand that way to anyone, but of course she's under some stress at that point :D Do we learn later if this makes Sheriam suspitious of Egwene?

So I'm on my 1st "read" (thank you audio books) of the series and I'm about 1/3 into Towers of Midnight and just got done with >!Egwene sipping tea with the wise ones and she's standing on the painting of the flame of tar valon!< And RJ/BS highlighting >!the 7 strands/colors of the ajahs flowing into the flame!< gave me an idea. What if >!Saidar isn't just made of Fire/Earth/Air/Water/Spirit, but actually there's 2 more threads to the power not explored since the age of legends? And these 2 lost strands of the power is why Semirhage was so arrogant about the Aes Sedai being weak in the 3rd age.!<

I'm not yet done and don't really want spoilers if I'm guessing beyond my knowledge, but I'm also curious on other people's thought.

Okay so I know a lot of people are mad about the dmfridging of Perrin from the TV show. But I recently read a chapter in the Shadow Rising where Perrin specifically states that had he stayed in the Two Rivers, he would've been married to Layla.

Now let's go back to the show: the boys have been aged 2 years to at least twenty. So... two additional years in the TR would mean Perrin did marry Layla. Which means he's rooted and isn't leaving for no Aes Sedai. But remember, he's ta'veran.

So when Momo rolls up to spirit them away, THE PATTERN forces Perin's leaving by having him kill his only true root: his wife. And that sets him off on his journey.

Prior ti this reread I thought Layla was made up for the show. Having read that, I'm not so mad (not that I was since I started on the show) that Perrin was married at the beginning.

Just mu two cents

Perrin is boring. I feel like, out of the three Emond’s Field boys, he's the least interesting. His arc was really engaging when he went back to Emond’s Field to save them, but ever since then, he's been so dull to read. His character has stayed the same since that point, but it’s not only that TWOT has such nuanced characters where almost no one is purely a “good guy.” Everyone has their flaws, but Perrin doesn’t seem to have a bad bone in his body. To me, he’s just a cookie-cutter good guy, which, in a world of such complex characters, makes him so much less interesting than everyone else. And then there's Faile. I don’t particularly care about their interactions, but it feels like, ever since he left Emond’s Field, his character has been all about Faile; it's all he ever seems to think about. Does his character get better later on? He used to be one of my favorites to read, but now his chapters bore me so much.

I'm only around 200 pages into The path of daggers so please no spoilers.

The Shaido faction? Like, in it's entirety after Couladin was killed. I kept thinking that somehow it would tie back into the plot in a major way, that they would be involved in the Last Battle or used to bring two opposing groups together in a big way (which I guess they kind of did with Perrin and the Seanchen, but that seems very temporary?) but it ends with Sevanna being captured, Galina being taken permanent prisoner of Therava, and reuniting Perrin and Faile (snore), the worst loving couple of all time.

So what was the point? What character development do I get from this? I already know Perrin is a good leader, he demonstrated that in a way more entertaining fashion when he became the Lord of the Two Rivers. Just to show that bad people have bad things happen to them (Galina, Sevanna)? I liked Perrin's idea of the Forkroot tea to weaken them, that was cool. The scenes where he was working with the Seanchen to convince them to follow him was also kind of neat. But soooo many POV chapters of people in the Shaido camp or of Perrin chasing after them and it just felt like the payoff was dreadful for that investment. I did think that learning of Perrin's role in the Last Battle according to the Seanchen prophecy was kind of dope (Wolf King!). In general though I want Perrin to be way more interested in that shit. We saw that guy tied up and feral, and we see Elyas, and Perrin is just like 'Whelp, I don't have time to think about why or how, I'm too busy yelling at/not yelling at my wife/Berelain!' Fuck me man, pick up a book and read about it or something! [Tugs braid in anger]

I haven't finished the series yet so maybe this is a case of RAFO, but god damn when that chapter ended where Perrin kills Rolan I was so perplexed as to what I was supposed to be feeling about this subplot conclusion. I mostly just feel bad for Morgase! This poor woman's used to being a queen but has been sent through the fucking wringer.

I'm a few chapters away from the end of KoD, so plz no spoilers beyond that point. Overall, I liked this book more than I was expecting, just like Winter's Heart. I actually enjoy the Egwene undermines TWT scenes. Rand "Lefty" Al'Thor losing the fight to Lews Therin for Saidin in that one battle outside the manor, and Tuon realizing Mat is no joke were all moments I really enjoyed. People say the last few books have much quicker pacing so I'm excited.

I started reading the Wheel of Time several years ago, and really enjoyed it. Around book 6, I started losing steam but was still enjoying myself enough to continue.

I had heard about the slog, and was prepared to brave through it. But for whatever reason, call it a low attention span, getting busy with other things, just simply losing interest, I stopped reading halfway through book 8 (The Path of Daggers.)

But I've been thinking about the books recently, and I want to dive back to where I left off. I have a couple issues with this, though.

First, it's a major time commitment, time I could spend reading other books potentially. Second, I know the books are very detail oriented, and I'm afraid some of the details would be lost on me since the books aren't really fresh in my mind. Third, I have an interest in starting the series from the beginning.

So what should I do? Start where I left off? Start the book from the beginning? Go back a couple books? Start from book 1? Any advice would be great.

... Just use Travel to send her troops to Tar Valon?

So, I'm halfway through Winter's Heart; perhaps she even does just that, but the question still remains: why not do it from the very beginning?

This book really is a struggle: we have the two subplots I care the less about, Faile/Perrin and the Shaido (honestly, why are the Shaido in general and Sevanna in particular still there?) so I'm perhaps missing things. Is that so with the answer of that question?

Egwene surely can open a portal big enough, if not her alone, she can form a circle. There's still reason to invoke her formal war declaration, with even more reason in fact, it consumes no resources (unlike depleting funds by sending them all walking across half the map), will completely catch Elaida by surprise and will shorten by a lot the time they waste with a divided tower. Its not like the Tarmon Gai'Don is not imminent for all they know, and still here they are wasting time and resources.

I mean, its not like Jordan is conservative using Traveling: many characters do it all the time. Its established it has barely any cost and its not difficult to do: pretty much any powerful enough channeler (and there's more and more of those) can do it if they know how. Its also established that entire armies can cross it, and if for whatever reason Travel can't be used, Skimming - which Egwene also knows how to do - is almost as useful. I feel Its dragged like that just for the sake of it.

anybody else a little uncomfortable w the fact that the band of the red hand wears red arm bands?? i feel like jordan could’ve picked literally any other color to avoid certain 1940s associations but alas he did not and it always gives me a double take, interested to see what the show does with this EDIT i would like to make it clear im not accusing the author of intentionally adding this connection-merely pointing it out bc wanted to know if others noticed

Just finished TOM. Since this is the last book, I would kindly request that a few words are spoken in it's honor.

So I was thinking about tinkers and I remembered that it’s revealed at the end of shadow rising in Rhuidean the truth of the Aiel and how they use to follow the way of the leaf.

But if the culture in the age of legends was a time of peace and very little evil before the dark one was released how could a culture such as the way of the leaf even exist. If most people are peaceful I don’t see how it would even develop as an idea, you know?

Without any spoilers please I’d love to hear other people’s perspectives

Im half way through a crown of swords where Perrin is leaving cairhien (no spoilers beyond here please) and I had to put the book down again because of how much I dislike Perrin and faile’s relationship.

At the start of the chapter Perrin was saying how happy him and Faile were there and I appreciate that maybe they are happy and the book doesn’t show it so much and that all relationships have their good and bad. I just feel like theirs is actually toxic. It makes me want to just skip the whole chapter every time. I almost dread Perrin chapters when he was my favourite in the beginning.

Did anyone else find this?

All print spoilers here! Beware!

So, once Nynaeve Heals Siuan, we are shown a scene where she is mentally prepping herself (somewhere in LoC, can't remember where) to go do battle with the Hall, because she plans to attempt to be reinstated as Amyrlin now that she can channel again. Obviously, this was unsuccessful.

I was just wondering what everyone thought would have happened had she been healed to full strength? We know that they were planning to raise Egwene at that point and that many of the Aes Sedai (even the ones in Salidar) blamed Siuan for the Breaking of the Tower. However, we also know how much store is set in strength in the One Power and if she had been restored to full strength this would have made her one of the strongest living Aes Sedai (equal to Moraine who was deceased, Romanda, and Lelaine), being surpassed at that time only by Cadsuane.

Would she have been successful in her bid to regain power? Personally, I still think she fails. Too much has happened, too many Aes Sedai resent her (if I recall correctly, many of the Blues even hold place some blame on her shoulders), and of course we have Romanda and Lelaine both vying for Power. I personally believe the only reason those two acquiesced to set aside their battle and allow Egwene to be named Amyrlin is because each believes they will be the true Amyrlin controlling Egwene. But still, it's a fun idea to consider!

It has been just under a year since I started reading Eye of the World (well listening to the Kate Reading/Micheal Kramer audio books) and I just finished A Memory of Light last night. I just wanted to say... I cried when Bella died. The only thing in the whole series to bring me to tears. I felt emotional at Lan's final charge supported by Tam and the two rivers archers, but Bella's death had me weeping.

I'm plowing into Knife of Dreams right now (early on so don't spoil), and have been noticing that the quality of Perrin's writing is at an all-time low. He is extremely repetitive and has repeated the same chapter what feels like 8 times in a row now. Brood, ride depressedly around your camp, bluntly demand answers from people, end with 'but nothing mattered more than finding Faile'.

Perrin has absolutely jumped the shark at this point, and I'm praying that there are only a few more chapters before he gets over this awful stretch of characterisation. Mat and Rand have had whole books of development while Perrin is still a weird broody farmer.

Not to mention that both Perrin and Rand have extremely severe issues that need to be addressed this second that they ignore for seemingly no reason.

Perrin has Aram who's going totally off the rails with Masema, yet all Perrin does is silently muse about it while taking zero action. Rand gets told 'oh yeah Taim is straight up evil and is corrupting the entire Tower against you', and for some dumb reason that isn't enough motivation to take action immediately. I just found the decision making in these situations absolutely baffling.

Basically, Crossroads of Twilight is a bad book and the sooner I can escape its worst moments, the better. Anyone else had this problem with Perrin's writing? I saw other reviewers on YouTube say the same about his lack of development.