The Gambler, The Son of Battles, The Raven Prince, Tai'shar of Manetheren, Horn Sounder, Lord.... Mat, just Mat

Random question but just a few things I know that I’m not supposed to.

I know Ishmaels motivations, I know Rand loses a hand and that Saidin gets cleansed. I also know something happens with Rand and Lews Therin, I think he basically becomes his Johnny Silverhand but I don’t really know about that one. Are any of these enough to ruin the story

Well I like to think that the difference in the strength of the channelers lies more in the true source itself, Saidin and Saidar.

The books say that men are usually stronger in the raw amount of power, while women are better in their ability to weave with power.

Thinking about it, I imagined a fun way of looking at the source. For example, Saidar is like a tame but dense and heavy river, more easily moldable, like clay, which is why it's so natural for women to weave it with more dexterity and skill, making the weaves more effective, precise and "hard". Saidin, on the other hand, would be like a stormy river, but extremely light and strong, like a storm, which makes it more difficult to shape accurately because its nature makes it constantly "move" and fight against the form that the male channeler wants to give it, because it is easier and more effective to weave destructive weaves, or tasks that require less precision.

From this, I was thinking: women spend much more energy expanding and supporting the heavy, dense flows of Saidar than a man, giving the famous impression that they are weaker in this crude sense. Like clay, women can combine their flows easily. That's why, for me, women should generally be strong in earth and water, as these are considered to be the "gentler" elements for Saidar.

Men channelers spend much more energy limiting and directing the stormy flows of Saidin, so that in combat they spend much less energy weaving the light weaves, giving the impression that they are stronger in one power. That's why, for me, men should generally be stronger in fire and air, as they are considered to be more destructive and expansive elements for Saidin.

Going into the fourth age, we have two rulers that are also Aes Sedai. Nynaeve for Malkier and Elayne for Andor and Cairhien.

It may have been fine leading up to the last battle, but having such split loyalties can’t be good for the health of the nations.

Nynaeve should be fine as I think she would easily put Malkier’s needs before the tower’s. However, there is no way Elayne will be able to be queen of two nations and a member of the Aes Sedai. It is a rulers job to put their nation above all else and so Elayne can’t do that for not only Andor and Cairhien but also the white tower. What happens if she is needed in Caemlyn but is called to the white tower urgently?

What do you think? And what leaders could you see instead?

Egwene should not have killed Taim. Disappointing decision. Logain should have killed him. First off they hate each other. They are both false dragons who are very powerful and have their own fan clubs. Secondly Taim represented the old tower where men were weapons and you have Logain and his group making the tower a place where men are men. At the very least it seemed like an Ashaman should have killed Taim.

I feel like Robert just wanted to kill Egwene and make her death meaningful. If she died just fighting channelers that wouldn't be as impactful and Taim was the biggest available bad guy.

Newbie here on my first read through of the WOT and I'm loving it. I finished The Dragon Reborn a month ago and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since! I've just started The Shadow Rising this week and one of the things I noticed is how different Rand acts compared to how other people perceive his actions. I'm only on chapter 19 but I've noticed that when other characters talk about things Rand does off screen (minus Elayne), he comes off as incredibly cold and maybe even a little crazy. However, whenever we see Rand in these situations he definitely seems stressed out but still seems very much in control and still has the same values he has always showed. They see him as this incredibly powerful channeler who is going to break the world and not as their childhood friend who recently found out that he is going to go insane, save the world, and die a brutal death.

I really enjoy this, and it causes me to question if what the other characters are saying really happened the way they tell it. I wonder what they would say if they didn't already have the negative opinion of the Dragon. I understand why most of the characters feel the way they do. I like Mat, but I feel like he especially is being really harsh on Rand. I feel that if he stopped avoiding Rand and actually spoke to him, that would go along way to mending their relationship. It doesn't help that Rand is throwing himself a pity party and refuses to talk to other people about what he's going through.
Overall I'm really enjoying this series and I can't wait to see all my favorite characters not talk their issues out!

Reading in publication order, so I've read 1-10 and am now about to finish New Spring. I have a question about saidar as it pertains to progressing over time.

It’s been said before in the series that Rand pushes his Asha'man to rise in strength in the Power as quickly as possible, whereas in the Tower they allow their students many years to grow in the Power---Moiraine and Siuan hadn't even reached their full potential after becoming full sisters. Do women progress slower in the Power, or do men and women proceed at the same speed unless prompted to move faster? Follow-up question, does this progression occur naturally, like naturally growing in height until you plateau, or is it like exercise, where the more you do the stronger you get?

Please enlighten.

Second review of this book series on this subreddit and I finished this book in 7 days.

This book was a lot more character based and a bit more slow paced but honestly I didn’t mind as I adore these characters. Really enjoyed this book not as much as other but still great!

Rand

Rand was very overconfident in this book, unsurprisingly though, as since he took the stone of tear he has just kept gaining more power, politically and in saidin. All of this led up to his final confrontation with the seanchan where he just loses it with his power with callandor in hand and ravages the seanchan army and even his own army. This just made me realise how much Rand was losing it, there has been hints throughout the last few books but this was the real eye-opener.

It was nice after all this to see him reunited with Min and him gaining some control of himself, but still he just seems very bleak and he is losing parts of himself to finish his task. Rand also gets undermined many times in this book by the asha’man who are supposed to look up to him and many of them are going insane, he gets undermined by Weiramon too as he rushes in head this may be just stupidity or is Rand losing control over his followers?

I wish Min this book wasn’t just her mooning over Rand, I hope she gets a bit more of characterisation next book as previously she has book one of my favourite characters

I suspect in the next book that Rand will keep on this losing streak.

Elayne and others

The bowl of winds was finally used in this book but i’m unsure whether this was the cause of saidin going weird or it was Elayne’s unweaving explosing that caused it, it is probably a RAFO

Intrigued about the unweaving that Aviendha and Elayne performed in this book, as Elayne didn’t intend it as a weapon but I think later on it will be used because it wiped out loads of seanchan and they saw it as a weapon.

I Miss Nynaeve’s POV. Out of the three main people in this part of the book you had a bit of Aviendha at the start and Elayne mostly, I know I should be asking where is Mat but I miss seeing her thoughts and feelings, especially with her now with Lan, but I guess I should be used to this now since this happens to a lot of characters

Elayne is now in Caemlyn after so many books of waiting for this to happen, I am worried that there will be rebellion as Rand seems to have left the place a bit unstable with there being a few other claimants to the throne, I expect in the next book it will be her dealing with these problems of rebellion. I think she will handle it well, with her taking control of a lot of the other Aes Sedai and the kinswomen showing already her pure authority over people.

Loving the dynamic between the groups of people (Kinswomen, Sea Folk, Aes Sedai). There is so much tension between them it looks as though all of them are splinters away from bursting into a pit of rage.

I am Wondering who killed Adeleas, maybe she killed herself with the poison after killing Ispan, maybe she herself was a darkfriend and she killed Ispan with orders from another forsaken, maybe Moridin?

Perrin

He has begrudgingly accepted he has to act as a lord and is now playing the part and is regarded highly by his followers, and now he has the queen of Ghealden foresworn to him which really shocked me, I expected maybe that she would just wait until Rand came but desperate times calls for desperate measures I guess.

Perrin and Faile are… interesting to say the least, it is very different from the other relationships in the book but I can’t quite say whether I like it, most of time it is just Perrin saying that women are confusing over and over (most men in this book say this). However, I enjoy the running joke of all three ta’veren protesting that the other ta’veren are better with women than they are.

Since he has now accepted his status I assume now that he will fight the shaido, because as lord he has a responsibility to look after his subjects.

Morgase will also be with the shaido being forced to do hard labour, will be weird to see how she reacts as she has lived her life at the top of society without any real need to do any labour herself, but she is strong so she may handle it well despite her previous life

Elyas Machera is back after I can’t even remember how many books, I expected more of a reaction from Perrin as I think he thought him dead by whitecloaks but I may be wrong. I hope his appearance means that we will learn more of Perrin’s wofl abilities and maybe they will be expanded.

Masema is crazy. He seems self righteous but the man is trouble, he should be killed before he does anything drastic especially since his talks with seanchan

Egwene

Refreshing to see Egwene take control of the rebels, her chapters were some of my favourites from this book, it had me guessing what she was planning and how she was going to do it and her authority really blew me away.

I don’t know who Sheriam is reporting to but I suspect that it is Halima but she could also be betraying Egwene for Elaida but that is the less likely option. Chesa (Egwene’s maid) is also appointed by Sheriam but wasn’t killed by Halima so that leads me to think that it is definitely Halima she is reporting to. I hope Sheriam isn’t black ajah though

Other stuff

The shaido really don’t interest me whatsoever any time a Sevanna chapter comes up I get bored sorry to say. This is my few complaints from this book hopefully it improves

Elaida might be deposed before Egwene even gets there. With Seaine being told that Elaida is somehow connected to the black ajah I think that she is going to topple Elaida from the inside and not Egwene or Alviarin, I am probably wrong though but RJ never fails to twist my expectations.

Cadsuane is growing on me, she is very firm but somewhat fair

I think Rands needs someone like Cadsuaune, Moiraine used to be the one keeping him somewhat human but I think she might take her place (still hoping Moiraine comes back)

Interesting to see the seanchan perspectives but I doubt I will remember a lot of names. They have lost twice to Rand now but I think they will get a win in the next few books

The seanchan are fascinating, especially the different animals, so I am hoping they will be prevalent a lot in the next book as they wasn’t too much focus on them.

Asha’man betrayal was expected but nonetheless cool to see, they have been acting weird this whole book, especially Dashiva

Verin continues to make me question where her allegiances lie. She is deeply curious with her being brown so maybe she went to the dark one to sate this curiosity and she has also used a lesser form of compulsion which is used by a lot of the forsaken, but also she seems quite kind but maybe only to her own ends.

I probably missed a few plots but I didn’t want this to be too long and If I put every thought this would be way, way longer

Overall I loved this book and I still find the slog exaggerated

My book ranking so far:

1. The Lord of Chaos
2. The Fires of Heaven
3. The Shadow Rising
4. A Crown of Swords
5. The Path of Daggers
6. The Dragon Reborn
7. The Great Hunt
8. The Eye of the World

Hi all,

I am finally asking a question that followed me for a long time now.

Lans 'title' Aan'allein, meaning 'one man alone' sounds weirdly familiar to the germanic ear, to the point where it could be from a dialect from my home country(Germany) and it's meaning wouldn't be any different.

So the question is, where did RJ take the parts of the old tongue from? And as a bonus question: is the old tongue a working language as we know it from JRRT or rather bits and pieces that don't really fit together?

Thanks

Romanda says in KoD that the keepings were beginning to fail and food starting to spoil and said something (was listening last night before bed) like, “well I guess Egwene’s discoveries can’t all be perfect” like it was an AoL weave learned from Marigan.

But I also have a distinct memory of the very first PoV edit: Elaida chapter using keepings on her flowers in like FoH or something. Did I mess this up in my head or is the stronger version a capital K Keeping and the weaker version is no big deal? Idk thanks if you can clear this up.

Edit: solved! Thank you! I was remembering the irony of cold hearted Elaida getting satisfaction of flowers in bloom but didn’t remember she grew them with the power instead of preserved them (was just remembering how much she liked “perfect” old stuff like her ivory miniatures).

Totally forgot about the lily in winter thing 🤡

I’m reaching the end of ACoS and I’m worried I missed something in TGH!!

I remember there was a passage earlier in the series where we learn that a damane who had been Aes Sedai was still bound by the Three Oaths, at least in that she could not physically tell a lie no matter how much she was tortured.

If that’s the case, how can damane who had taken the Three Oaths before being leashed use the Power in battle? does it have something to do with the exception built into the Three Oaths (the prohibition on lying has no caveat for self-defense but the prohibition on using the Power as a weapon permits self-defense)?

Maybe a little spoiler of chapter 43.

In The Dragon Reborn,at the end of chapter 43.Moraine said Perrin was like a Dreamer and one of them was ruling Illian. In which chapter he saw that?

I'm being a bit ambiguous to reduce spoiler as much as I can.

I am wondering if Jordan ever regretted initiating the connections between Rand and Elayne/Aviendha. The comparison with his "actual" relationship with Min makes the connections with the other two feel very superficial, in particular, Elayne.

At least Rand and Aviendha spent a great deal of time together so you can see where their eventual connection was built from.

Elayne, in contrast, seemed to just decide she was soulmates with Rand and claim him. There doesn't seem to be any depth or reason for this connection, other than justifying her alliance in the story.

Am I missing something?

I just finished CoS, but barely. It started to drag and I realized that I would rather finish this series by skipping a couple books than DNFing the series because of it. I checked out The Dragon Reread podcast and listened to a few episodes from chapters I’ve finished, and it’s pretty comprehensive. It feels like a good balance between fast-forwarding the books without losing too much plot and being lost when I jump back in. Is this a bad idea? Short sighted? Just want to yell at me for having a short attention span? Jump in!

Well, I finally finished book 7. I would have been done sooner but I had to work at some point. This was definitely a lot less exciting than book 6, but I still liked it. It seems like we're moving from political thriller to character study now. Here is my book 6 thread. :

1. I thought Pedron Niall was going to be a significant player in the rest of the series. I was swiftly disabused of that, which is too bad. I think he was a pretty interesting character to lead the goddamn Whitecloaks.
2. Speaking of which, it is not explicitly stated but obviously Valda assaulted Morgase. I thought I could not hate the Whitecloaks even more, but I was also wrong about that.
3. Where is Lews Therin! I know Rand now thinks he's not going mad because of Min's viewing, but...he's making some seriously compulsive decisions. Let's go see the Atha'an Miere spur of the moment, followed by going to the rebels' camp without thinking it through, followed by waking up and immediately going after Sammael. I mean, I don't know if he's going crazy, but he's making some really questionable decisions that suggest he isn't in his right mind.
4. Speaking of the Forsaken, for a group of boogeymen, they sure come across as idiots. They're all brawn and no brains.
5. Elaida is also kind of an idiot. She's in trouble.
6. I like Egwene, but I was a little put off by how she just passed Lan along like he had no agency at all. Maybe it's because his mind is addled by the death of Moiraine but he's a king and apparently in an "endless war" with the shadow, but he doesn't do anything without the go ahead of the Aes Sedai.
7. Still-Egwene is much more formidable than they expected. I hope she remakes the Aes Sedai because they're rotting in their traditions. Also, I'm curious how the Aes Sedai went from what it was in the Age of Legends to what it is now. Do we learn more about the history of the Aes Sedai? Or about the Bore, or the Forsaken? I want in-series history.
8. Min's viewings always come true, except when it comes to Moiraine. I cheered when I read that. The only good Aes Sedai coming back, maybe?
9. Well, not the only good Aes Sedai. Nynaeve got EVERYTHING she wanted and all she had to do was almost die! That's some real Jedi shit-"let go" and the Force will flow through her.
10. Enough of Faile and Perrin being mad at each other. He must do something important moving forward because I thought his story wrapped up pretty nicely with him as Lord of the Two Rivers. I also don't totally buy he's ta'veren. Rand, obviously, and Mat too, but I don't see the same swirls of the Pattern with Perrin.
11. God the Seanchan are creepy. I hope Rand obliterates them. I think Mat is going to marry the heir to the throne though.
12. Speaking of Mat, does anyone dispute that was sexual assault as well? Tylin made him sleep with her at knife point after refusing to let him eat and stalking him. Then later she straight up abducts him. Mat does not know how to feel about it, clearly, but he mentions wanting to cry several times. That sounds like a trauma response to me.
13. And I won't forgive Elayne for laughing. Too bad, because she was growing on me.
14. I'm not sure how to feel about Cadsuane.
15. Also, I am not sure why anyone would become a Darkfriend. This is not a series with religious ambiguity. The Dark One is clearly evil.
16. Loial is still irrelevant.
17. I used to love Min but she's kind of gone from a cool sassy tomboy with inexplicable powers to just simpering over Rand all the time. Aviendha was still a badass when she was with Rand and Elayne was still a chore, so why did Min change so much?
18. Nynaeve's block disappearing is bad fucking news for the Black Ajah and Moghedien.
19. Sevanna is a moron. Does she not question where this random guy is getting all this stuff? She's not even a Darkfriend, is she? So she's just strolling around getting magical devices that don't even work.
20. I want to see Rand and Nynaeve reunited. They're the two strongest channelers of their genders, right?
21. What is going on with Alanna? Who is the warder here? I did like how she started laughing when Rand was ordering the Aes Sedai around. She's constantly worried about Rand. This is the most bizarre relationship. I'm not forgiving what she did but it adds something really interesting to Rand's stories which are becoming increasingly erratic.
22. Speaking of relationships, we all need a friend like Birgitte. Mat and Birgitte scenes are amazing and I hope it stays platonic.
23. The fight for the bowl was INTENSE. Wow.
24. Overall, Rand is starting to put me on edge with his behavior. Nynaeve's block is gone and already I think she's starting to grow up a little. I'm sickened by what Mat and Morgase went through, but Mat is clearly the best character and past me should be ashamed of himself for thinking differently. Given how Rand is acting I'm starting to think Egwene's arrogance may be a much-needed counterweight. I hope Perrin and Faile do anything else but I'm not optimistic (and being able to smell emotions to that extent is...a lot). Birgitte is a rock star.
25. I still don't know who killed Asmodean. Am I supposed to have it figured out?

Well, I'll be back in about a week to write down my thoughts on the next book.

So I’m almost done with a Crown of Swords and I feel like I’m confused on how powerful the AES Sedai are vs how powerful they used to be after Moghidiens return to the bore. Throughout the series, the forsaken all ridicule the power of the current aes sedai, and yet when the dark one is punishing moghidien, he mentions that his servants are always the most powerful and chastising her for being overpowered. Moghidiens power level is very similar to nynaeve which means even in the age of legends, Nynaeve would’ve been amongst the most powerful Aes sedai. I guess my question is if the scaling is so similar, why do the forsaken mock the aes sedai? It seems the only difference is knowledge.

Moirane is one of the most fascinating characters to me, and also the most infuriating. I'm having a blast with Rand coming into his own, and Moirane has yet to emerge from Rhuilan in my read through.

Assuming she survives, does she ever open up and start actually sharing? There needs to be trust here if they're going to survive the last battle and I want to know more about her.

I'm only on book five, but I started thinking about the prologue to the first book where we see how Lews Therin killed himself and whatnot.

Are Elayne and Ilyena's similar names, golden hair and their love for the Dragon just coincidence? Or could Elayne be a reincarnation of Ilyena?

Has anyone else thought about this?

What is the cost of utilizing >!The true power!< , and why don't the forsaken use it all the time? It seems like their greatest tool and they don't seem to use it for like 99% of the series with the one obvious exception.

Best explanation I can think of is >!the dark one is imprisoned so they can't use it until about the time that shaidar haran shows up, but then they either seem too afraid to use it, or just act like it doesn't exist period!<

So I was looking up stuff about first-sisters and such, which is only used when you have the same mother. And they have second-sisters, when your mothers are sisters. But seeing as they have polygamy and there is a situation where they have the same father but different mothers, I didn’t see a term for that. And it seems like it should be common enough to have a term. Am I missing something or is there no term for that? So like Rand’s kids with Aviendha and Elayne’s kids, what would they be?

Edit: It just clicked after posting. My real world thoughts are interfering with Wot rules. You have to become first sisters before marrying the same man. So I was thinking second sisters was only cousins, your mom’s sister’s kid with another man. But for Aiel the sister wife is your mom’s first sister, so your half siblings would be second sister/brother. I think.

Finished reading the book (first time reading so not aware of anything post book 7) and I have quite mixed feelings about it.

For what I loved about it:

- The whole entire Ebou Dar arc, I find Mat's character really interesting, he finally gets his thanks and apologies for saving their asses back in Tear, Nyaneve finally unlocks the power fully, the Mat and Brigitte friendship truelly refreshing.

What I disliked about it:

- The major thing : The invasion of Illian. Rand almost died, wakes up, boom suddenly the guy inaves a city. Also, Sammaël's death felt quite underwhelming (If he really is dead). No confirmation on the body (kek ofc it's balefire) so he could still be alive, but if he's dead, that feels underwhelming. How many forsaken have died to Balefire now? I hate balefire with a passion, not only because of the quick revive aspect of it, but because it feels way less "cool" when used for the 20th time by or against a Forsaken, with this sort of moral restriction of "You shouldn't be using it but I'm doing it anyway and nothing bad ever happens of it ". Feels like Deus Ex Machina the main character can channel everytime he wants to win a Fight he shouldn't win or wants to ressurect his dead friends, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

Also, what was the point of all this Aeil trickering and plotting by Sammael, for him to die this way, him who was rumored wouldn't take a fight unless he was absolutely certain winning it? Also I hate the fact that Rand can Travel, has access to 2 of the most Powerfull Angreal, but everytime the guy goes on a solo mission to 1v1 some Forsaken, NOPE, they don't exist, I don't want to use them, and everytime the guy comes back almost dead.

- The fight at Shaddar Logoth: Sammael had a really good plan, baited him there in a ground he set up so long ago (Rand did too but it was useless because it was a slow death trap on Trollocs), there even was the Maiden that was abandonned there in book 6, everything had a great setup for Rand to lose. Turns out apparently the Maiden wasn't part of Sammael's plan, and Rand just went Balefire GG and one tapped Sammael. Like how more underwhelming can this get? The mystery behing the random guy who "helped him" seems fine, but most likely it's Rand going just nuts and seeing things not there. I hate the taint aswell, each book I'm reading I want a solution to this thing but it truely seems the guy is gonna be fully mad at the Last Battle blasting balefire through the entire thing.

I love the Character's POV and all, but for me some of the "big endings" are really underwhelming, Book 1-2-3 seems like a repeat with Ishamael having to die 3 times (And I'm not even sure the guy is dead in book 3, given how there was little to zero interaction between "revealed" Ishamael and Rand. Also the guy is the strongest Forsaken but was killed too easily (Ok Rand had Callandor, but still, I wouldn't be using my strongest antagonist to die so soon if I were writing this thing). Also Sammael's death seems way to similar to Rahvin's death (Invade City - Fight - Balefire - Dead).

Book 6's ending was great though, the entire battle, the massacre, the kneeling of the Aes Sedai, we actually felt the plot going forward.

Is it meant to be an elephant?

So I know Aiel introduce themselves with sept and such like “I am Rhuarc of the Nine Valley Sept of the Taardad Aiel”. And through the books Aviendha talks about how uncomfortable she is saying just people’s first names, since that is so intimate. So my question is if she was to talk about Rhuarc (presuming he wasn’t a clan chief and just a regular Aiel) how would she refer to him? Like would she say the whole thing every time? Would she just call him Rhuarc of the taardad, Rhuarc of the nine valleys?

After I got the lunchtime text I couldn’t even come up with a text response with words haha

Called her immediately after getting off work so we could commiserate and talk about how AWESOME Egwene is and the series is

Now when I say "best" I mean their writing and how much you like them. For me (and many others) it would come down to between Ishamael and Demandred but Ishamael takes the cake for me. What do you guys think?

It's been a while since I read the 12th episode of Lord of Chaos, Questions and Answers, which ends like this:"She did not look the stone building, so she did not see the woman watching her and Theodrin from a second-story window."

I thought if I kept reading I would find out who this mysterious figure was, so I did, and I read and read, but there is a problem. Either I missed the book mentioning who this person is, or it hasn't been mentioned yet. If it's not astronomically spoilery who is this?