If yes. What do you think of the alternate ending?

63 Jokers!! Hahahahahahahahaha!!

My favorite villain. “Smile, because it confuses people. Smile, because it's easier than explaining what is killing you inside”

Guys I’ve been working for several weeks now on my script, my friends are tired of me talking about it lol. I’ll give ya a little snippet of what I want to reference: -Batman(yea Batman in that universe, hear me out, I can make this work) -Death of (possible future)Robin’s parents -Camilla Ortin/Camilla Cameo(as one of the main characters) -The Killing Joke-Joker’s origin comic story. -Current state of Joker character in the comic books(I think they made him into something that lacks any contact with humanity, which is weird in a way but works when making villain story where you actually don’t root for the villain in the end) -Addressing the events and keeping in the character’s personality from the BOTH of previous movies. If y’all think anything else is important for this let me know since I already have all the plot I’m just now sketching out the scenes in details until I get to the dialogue. (no I am not schizo surprisingly)

Écrit moi une histoire drôle

I saw Joker 2 after all this Luigi business and thought it was great. I’m wondering if that had to do with all the parallels that I’m seeing between the plot and the Luigi Mangione affair? Frustrated and at his wits end individual murders symbol of social ills only to be hailed as a hero to the equally frustrated masses resulting in the (for Luigi, inevitable) “trial of the century”.

I’m sharing my stick and poke I spent hours working on back in 2019

Can you name all 56 of the Clown Princes of Crime depicted above? First to do so gets a cookie!! 🍪

Honestly I was Iffy about watching Joker folie deux due to the ratings of those who seen it but then I listened to what the director had said about it and understood the premises of the story is reflected by the audience basically which is what joker is all about the conflicting, ill opinions of the audiences from both the rich & then the citizens then the people inspired by the joker, then the actual real life audiences (us the people who watch the movie). The first joker inspired people to rebel against the rich in an violent way. It seemed nice for viewers and the audience to not only have a representation of their anger and forced image onto Aruthur Fleck but to see him on his quest of vengeance. Making him Joker ( the face of their anger and their thirst for revenge and violence against the rich) using him in that way where they can make the world in their image and make him in their image. The joker is a symbol of anger, revenge, violence a cycle. Arthur fleck is a real man with real mental illnesses and trauma but he is more than that he wants love, to be accepted for who he is, he wants to make people happy. he thinks that the joker movement accepts him for who he is but they do not, they use him as their escapism, they do not want him to be more than the joker to be more than his anger and revenge therefore confining him to someone the joker , someone who is unhinged, unserious , violent , angry but that isn't who he is only accepting him if he is joker. By the end of the movie he comes to terms to the world that he is more than the joker he is Arthur a man, who just wants love for everyone coming to terms with reality and telling his "followers" that is reality. In doing so he loses the girl who was thought to be in love with him but instead in love with the quest of meaning, the thrill of chaos , allure of rebellion against the rich and which the audiences need to feel validated in their own struggles reflecting it onto him which is the same thing the rich/society already does to him but in a different way. In response to this he is murdered by a extreme "fan" who is also in the asylum, he is killed for letting him "down" ,by not being the joker anymore and therefore taking on the identity of the joker his self.

Joker is one of my favorite movies, especially the ending. It evoked this very triumphant and satisfying feeling, truly great. Also Phoenix did a fantastic job. I’ve heard some kind of negative reviews about the new movie, and before I watch it I am curious about your opinion reddit

The way people are still offended and masking it is soo funny still 😂 keep it coming

So this is a really dumb question but what actual type of notebook does Arthur use in the movie? I thought it was just like the standard cheap ones we have today but it doesn't have the 3 ring binder holes in it.

is joker ok with gooners? , does he hate gooners? is he in love with them? is he a gooner himself? does he goon to batman?!

For the record, I'm a big fan of Jack Nicholson's Joker. I think he's pretty much perfect and see how he inspired the other perfect portrayal of Joker in the BTAS. I'm not the biggest fan of the Burtonverse, but everything relating to Joker in it feels perfect to me. I like how it explained his artistry and I like how it seemed like his facial scars were equal parts due to the chemical vat and a botched plastic surgeon (I like to imagine the chemicals froze his expression and the surgeon tried to work with it and make him look "presentable").

That being said, I heard much about this film and I finally decided to watch it. There were some things I liked, and some things I didn't.

Positives

1.) Everything having to do with Murray Franklin was amazing. I remember being a kid and knowing someone who was obsessed with watching David Letterman every day. I never understood it, those shows werent for me, and it didnt feel remotely like my age demographic. Seeing Arthur idolize Murray, I was very much like "damn I know that guy". It set up a strong throughline.

2.) I love the hints of altered reality and unreliable narrator. I knew a girl in college who fabricated that she was dating this guy she'd had a crush on for months. One day my friend came across him and asked about how they were doing and the guy didn't even know her. We were so shocked. Sophie Dumond's portrayal and role was perfect at this, and it served to reinforce Penny's similar experience with Thomas Wayne.

3.) I really liked the attempt at giving Joker some context and backstory. Joker's youth has always been something I've been interested in. How does a kid end up becoming Jack Napier? The answers here aren't 100% satisfying but I'm happy to get any at all.

4.) Removing this story from the context of DC, the plot is incredible and the story being told is nigh perfect. I'm glad there are works of media trying to explore what young men are going through right now. But I also wish it had offered a solution. I've met plenty of Arthurs in my life, some having been friends and some being chance encounters. But - as an aside, less so commentary on the film- when you meet someone and they're coming off as unstable, what else are you supposed to do but be kind and polite? I met a guy at a social the other night who felt exactly like Arthur, and he started asking tons of very specific questions about my life that seemed TMI. My instinct is to be truthful and kind but my friend said later I was too honest. I wish the film offered a little guidance beside "lets not make fun of or make these guys lives worse" though.

5.) With what's been going on in the news, this film has aged well instead of poorly. A couple years ago I would have said "theres no way the general public would celebrate this guy so much" and would have seen the ending riots as a ridiculous delusional power fantasy. But as of this past month, I wouldn't say that. I believe it now. Film was ahead of its time.

Negatives

1.) There is relatively little to no throughline of this story or portrayal to any rendition of the Joker. Obviously it's its own creative take, I'm not saying it should be exactly like other stories. But to its very core Joaquin doesn't really feel or behave like the Joker. I associate the Joker with confidence and charisma and this portrayal doesn't have either of those. I get that the socislly awkward loner vibe was meant to reach a disenfranchised kind of modern guy, I really understand and think they succeeded in portraying that effectively. But in that case I feel the story would have been stronger under a new original character.

2.) I think they tied Arthur and Bruce too close together pre Batman. I feel weird that Alfred ever spoke to him or that his mother ends up being SO involved with their family. I didn't mind that his mom had the obsession or he was stalking the family, but I think it would have worked better if Bruce had been a careless casualty instead of seemingly like a target of Arthur's ire. On the flipside I feel like it should have been the Joker pulling the trigger on Thomas. As for his mother, I didn't mind the paranoid delusion, but then the film has to throw the photo in near the end that further hints there was truth to it and also connects Thomas to Penny's smile comment. For such a big reveal I would have liked if we got more of a clearly defined answer. I don't know that I like the Joker and Batman as half brothers, all of this serves to make the universe feel very small. I liked when it was more an obsessive crush, and would have liked if she was farther removed from the family as a Wayne desk worker instead of one of the family caretakers.

3.) I don't know that I like that Arthur is already doing clowning at the start of the film. I would have liked to see Arthur as a failed painter and comedian instead, clowning becoming something symbolizing his change.

4.) HBO Max describes this film as follows, "A failed comedian begins a slow descent into madness as he transforms into a criminal mastermind." That is not the movie I watched. The Joker never becomes a criminal mastermind, he shows little to nothing having to do with intellectualism/ being a mastermind. He hurts some people, inspires s movement, and then ends up locked up. I don't understand how this character is supposed to be a one day rival to Batman. He doesn't feel capable, talented, or have enough agency.

Final Thoughts

I think this is a good film, but I don't think this is a good DC film. There are few elements that feel right for the Joker, but these elements are powerful and human nonetheless. As a film about humanity, I would give it a 9/10. As a Joker film, I would give it a 5/10.

If I were to write my own Joker backstory, I believe finding the rhythmn within the chaos of all his iterations would be incredible. Explore a few out there lore connections. If Jack/Arthur is getting abused at home as a child, show him finding solace in early school. Make him a student at Ma Gunn's School for Boys, show him reveling in using his talents for crime and violent art and then take that away from him when he goes to highschool. I think a surreal Lemony Snicket ASOUE Netflix vibe fits the DC universe more than gritty and ultra realistic. IDK. I want to see what puts a kid down a life of crime, not necessarily a life of instability. I want to see what turns a child into Jack Napier. I think there's a story there.

Thanks for reading all of this! 🫡

I didn’t hate Joker 2 like a lot of people did, it was so hated upon release, but I could end up seeing Joker 2 becoming a film that time is more kind to, I could easily see it becoming a “misunderstood cult classic” in 5-10 years, what do you think?

Arthur Fleck is not the Joker. It's everyone who thinks they have artistic rights to a movie they had no involvement in. The director had no responsibility to provide you with what you wanted from his movie. Sonic set a horrible precedent for the general audience.

A director is allowed to subvert expectation. A director is allowed to take a shit on a character if thinks it will tell his story. A director is allowed to stab that character in the tummy. A director is allowed to try new things. A director is allowed to fail.

Even if it betrayed what YOU wanted from the movie, the destinction between a team of people genuinely trying to craft something interesting, and Madame Web, cannot be forgotten. Chill out and go watch one of the 15 comic book dedicated performances that already exist on film, TV, and animation. Or play Arkham. Or read a comic.

The first movie explained quite clearly this was not a straight forward joker. Why did you think a musical was going to be the Joker action event of the century? That was rhetorical.

I just finished the 2019 joker movie, gosh the movie was dark and creeped me out, I had to lock all the doors I got, and I thought about the argument I had with my renter today, I then thought of something that made me uncomfortable, and the scenes with Penny’s history, made me think about what secrets my mother might hold that I don’t know. Genuinely feel a bit paranoid right now.

This film genuinely made me panic a bit, I would say it’s a great film considering how much emotion it triggers for me, but I will not watch it again, I WILL NOT. I saw another post that had so many people saying they loved the movie so much, and they watched it 3 times, some even said 10 times! I really wonder why people watch it over and over, is it because it’s just a good film? Or if joker’s experience was relatable to you guys?

I liked it a lot (I waited like everyone else until it was on Max), but had a question - Harley Quinn is a figment of his imagination, right? We're supposed to assume that. It's not explicit but she exists only in his mind and anything that he does that seems like an accomplishment is his bad interpretation of the reality he's expressing. We're dealing with an unreliable narrator and the only real thing that happens is the joke at the end.

Possible reasons: Does anyone even interact with her besides Arthur? She introduces herself by doing that gun motion to the end that Arthur did to his other "girl friend". She shows up in his cell. She just randomly appears on the stairs at the end. She gets up and leaves the court without anyone noticing or saying anything. She's a figment of his imagination just like the original girl friend from the first movie.

It was OK. I actually liked the songs. I liked the dance choreography. I liked the acting. I liked the whole concept of the movie in general. I understand why people hated it, though.

I think this movie could have done 100% better. And actually have been implemented and accepted as canon (to The Batman) if ONLY they had Not put Harvey Dent as the prosecuting attorney? I think this took place in late 70’s? In which no timeline of the joker except this was Harvey Dent alive.

Be it Jack Napier, Jackie Oswald white, Arthur fleck, blah blah in the prime universe the Joker has No true origin story. The fact that JP’s (Jaquan phoenix) joker was killed at the end was absolutely epic to me because it ended up holding true that there is STILL no true origin for the joker.

But adding Harvey Dents character into movie is what made me roll my eyes. Yes, out of Everything. The unrealistic court cases, the silly escapes, lady Gaga’s horrible acting. Harvey dent is what did it for me 😂

Now both movies were a complete waste of viewers time because none of it even matters and part 2 really wasn’t even that entertaining. (by general consensus)

Could have been a Great two part film staying true the one of the most notoriously mainstream DC Villains of all time. Could have been tied into The Batman film, But they doped it, man. And I’m just so confused as to WHY. So much potential.

I still enjoyed it for what it was worth but it did Not have to be a stand alone film. Every joker past this could have been (what a lot of people hate) but just an idea based off of the original concept of a psychopath from the 70’s/80’s that’s been long forgotten.

Overall 4/10. JP held it down. Lady gaga really took away from the film for me, personally.