/r/etymology

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Discussing the origins of words and phrases, in English or any other language.

Etymology is the study of the history of words and idioms, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

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Rules

1. Posts should be informative

Word origins posted here should have more to offer than just a link to a dictionary definition. Try to capture what's interesting about the etymology.

2. Keep it relevant to etymology

Posts should be on-topic or meta. As well as the history and development of words, on-topic content also includes the origin of phrases, which deal with changes in meaning.

3. Perform basic research

As a courtesy to other users of the community, before posting a question, please use the resources in the subreddit sidebar to try to find an answer.
If you still have questions, by all means post here; if your question is totally solved, consider sharing the answer with the community instead!

4. Disputed origins should have a warning

Connections and word origins that are speculative, disputed, or otherwise specious should be shared with wording that reflects the uncertain origin to avoid being misleading.

5. Be nice

r/etymology is for civil discussion. Keep your posts and comments friendly and remember the human.

6. Don't use AI as evidence

Language models are an emerging tool that can often give assertive but specious answers. Please do not cite or rely upon AI tools when asking or answering questions on r/etymology.


Subreddits of interest


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/r/etymology

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8

What are some words/terms that shocked you for being older or way newer than you thought ?

I was reading an article about the anachronistic dialog of madmen and in it was a mention of how the term "window of opportunity" didn't show up in print until 1980.

3 Comments
2025/02/02
02:52 UTC

0

Does the word gang derive from Ghengis Khan? Old roots show it as Gangaz or Ghengh.

It seems overly coincidental to be so close to the spelling of a man that once ran one of the largest "gangs" in human history. I can't find anything online that actually makes the connection between word roots and Ghengis Khan himself.

5 Comments
2025/02/02
02:43 UTC

8

Is there a connection between the words "lammas" (sheep in finnish) and "llama" (the sheep-ish animal)?

My friend was playing a Finnish game where there was a sheep (referred to as a "lammas" ?) and I thought that this was very interesting.

11 Comments
2025/02/02
01:17 UTC

7

Ziggi Etymology

My grandmother used to call eye-boogers "ziggis" and I cant find the origin. Her native language is Swiss German. Any ideas?

5 Comments
2025/02/01
18:42 UTC

28

Is there a connection between the English word estate and the Italian word for summer (le estate)?

13 Comments
2025/02/01
16:06 UTC

38

Term hidey-ho

My grandma used to call a bag of random bits and bobs for me to take home from her house as my bag of hidey-ho. As in “don’t forget your bag of hidey-ho I put together for you!” Has anyone else ever heard this? For reference my grandma was born in 1929, and grew up in Alberta, Canada and then moved to Saskatchewan, Canada as a young adult. My sister and I also call a bag of random stuff hidey-ho and we can’t find anything online as to its origins. Are we just weird Canuck’s?🤣 Any help is greatly appreciated!

Edited to correct my mis-spelling of Canuck!

12 Comments
2025/02/01
03:55 UTC

66

Turkish words derived from Ol- "to be" | thanks u/ulughann for inspiration

12 Comments
2025/01/31
23:31 UTC

0

The 'EIIEVE' rule

I think I've discovered a new spelling rule!! If a word ends in '-ve' and has a 'C' in it, it follows 'EI' (Receive, Deceive, Perceive). If it doesn’t have a 'C,' it follows 'IE' (Achieve, Believe). Has anyone noticed this before?

40 Comments
2025/01/31
16:11 UTC

19

Where does the "e" in "appear' come from?

"Appear" and "apparent" both come from the Latin "apparere", so why does "appear" have an "e" in it? This drives me nuts sometimes because I forget that "apparent" doesn't have an "e" and a lot of apps don't know to suggest the right spelling. They just get confused and start coughing up all kinds of unrelated junk.

15 Comments
2025/01/31
13:20 UTC

27

Was/Is Klutz an offensive term?

I hope I'm in the right sub for this, I apologize if not. Thanks for your time reading!

I used to be a visiting elderly care giver and would do in home visits and care. I had a client a few years ago who was Jewish and I had a wonderful relationship with her. She taught me a lot and I'll miss her greatly.

Anyways, I was making her breakfast one day and somehow managed to catch and redrop an egg 5x times in a row before it finally fell and broke on the ground. I sighed and said "I'm sorry Miss Smith, I'm such a Klutz". And she huffed and reared back with a "You are NOT" in a sort of shock? I apologized if I said something offensive and went back to my day. It was dropped as quick as it happened and I never said the word again around her. She taught me many Jewish words in her time with me, but I never brought up the word again, afraid I'd offend her. She developed dementia in my time with her and was already starting when I met her. It was difficult to hold long or deep conversations with her for more than a few minutes.

Many years later I still refer to myself as a klutz when I am alone, but never out loud to others as I still can't figure out if it was offensive. I grew up being called a klutz and a butter fingers (lovingly) my entire life. But, over time I've learned my family used many words/terms that were racist in nature or offensive to other cultures. I've had to scrub my vernacular quite a bit in my life. But I never could find anything online correlating klutz with bad connotations.

Was it just a misunderstanding or is there some historical context I'm missing? Thank you for your help!

20 Comments
2025/01/31
00:17 UTC

0

Have Germans always used the word "schadenfreude," or did it rise from obscurity because of some event?

With the ongoing mass deportations, there is a sense of schadenfreude in the US and it is palpable even among those who could be ensnared by it. With the gravity, uncertainty, and unfamiliarity, of what is happening now as a driving force, and the unfamiliar emotions, senses, and situations it engenders the ingredients - the conditions are rife for the cauldron of language to come to a boil, and crystallize new concepts into new words, enhance existing words with new connotations, or give new relevance to words once obscure.

Germans, in my opinion, have always shown a deftness at using language not only to capture new concepts, but to sanitize problematic ones. Thus I wonder whether a world like "schadenfreude" has a backstory accompanying it's technical etymology, perhaps something similar to what a large swath of the US population is feeling while standing at this moment in time.

EDIT: I've been receiving a lot of blowback for this post, which I did not expect. I asked the question because of an essay I'm trying to write. This is an etymology subreddit and so I didn't think my politics was relevant. Mass deportations is an issue that affects me because I am it's target. Enough said.

10 Comments
2025/01/30
22:51 UTC

8

Naval and Navel

One of my kids today asked me if "Naval" and "Navel" have a common ancestor. I did a bit of poking around, and I can't see any links, but I'm far from an expert.

I can see Naval coming from the Latin "Navis" ("Ship"), but I'm struggling to identify a source for "Navel", so I can't quite validate my claim that it's 'just one of those coincidences' Any ideas, Reddit?

3 Comments
2025/01/30
21:49 UTC

9

Sound shifts from Latin to Romance languages

Are there any good resources to learn about the sounds shifts from Latin to the modern romance languages? Most of what I've found seems to focus on a couple consonant shifts and one or two vowels shifts, but I'd like something that goes further in depth.

9 Comments
2025/01/30
18:33 UTC

112

I misspelled “Sergeant” as “Sargent,” but no red squiggly appeared beneath, leading me to believe it’s a real word. But looking it up in the dictionary just confused the issue even more. Does anyone understand this definition?

48 Comments
2025/01/30
17:42 UTC

49

Words and compounds derived from the Finnish word "Kirjoa" - embroider.

7 Comments
2025/01/30
13:23 UTC

17

What happened to the PIE word for father in slavic languages?

So I’ve been wondering why the slavic languages dont have a word for father that descended from ph₂tḗr and instead have something like bulgarian bashta and otets (which is an archaic word in bulgarian).

3 Comments
2025/01/30
13:14 UTC

0

How come "moots" becomes the abbreviation of "mutual followers"?

Did it experience a clipping process (mutual→mut) and a vowel letter change (mut→moot)?

6 Comments
2025/01/30
09:40 UTC

6

(RESOURCE) OLD FRENCH DICTIONARY IN TEN VOLUMES

0 Comments
2025/01/30
08:19 UTC

214

Words in Turkish derived from the verb sev- "to love"

36 Comments
2025/01/29
15:42 UTC

38

Why is there a color named “Cobra Blue” when there are no blue cobras?

45 Comments
2025/01/29
06:26 UTC

0

Picnic

This pops up a lot, like all the time, at least to me. I find tons of sources pointing out that it’s false, while other say it has racist origins. Could anybody explain it better than my seemingly unimpressive Google-Fu skills

11 Comments
2025/01/28
23:47 UTC

26

Etymology of the place name 'Sade'

So for a bit of context I was watching a profile video of a murderer and the term Sadism kept on coming up. I know what it means but I had an etymological strike and had to know where the term came from. I've found it came from the French author Donatien Alphonse François, Marquis de Sade who was of course the Marquis (or less commonly Count) of Sade but I cannot find a placename in France called Sade?

Anyone any idea why the marquis of Sade? Is this a historical area?

If so, what's the etymology of the placename?

I had a humorous musing that people that live in Sade must get pissed off everytime they hear the term Sadism but, alas, I'm at a dead end.

15 Comments
2025/01/28
22:06 UTC

30

When did some Americans begin pronouncing "disguise" with a /k/ sound instead of a /g/?

In many American accents (and possibly others), the word "disguise" is pronounced more like /dɪsˈkaɪz/ (or "diskize") rather than the British /dɪsˈɡaɪz/ (or "disgize"). The same pattern occurs with "disgust." Why is this the case? Are there other words with similar pronunciation shifts?

66 Comments
2025/01/28
17:02 UTC

5

Traffic vs. Travel/Traverse

Thought about finding a Phonetics forum to ask this question, but maybe this will garner at least some answers.

Any thoughts as to the origins of Traffic and Travel and how they relate to each other? Travel seems to predate Traffic, but beyond that I can’t find a specific link between the two. I’m mostly interested in how the labiodental fricatives (f and v) became severed in this instance. Why isn’t it Travic, Travel, and Traverse (or Traffic, Traffel, and Trafferse). It’s likely that one or the other was used and then misheard/picked up by a language without that particular phoneme. Anyone have any citations for this?

4 Comments
2025/01/28
11:38 UTC

50

Where do the many meanings of the word flush come from?

Two objects can be flush with one another, a face can be flushed, so can a toilet. You can flush animals out of the woods or get a flush in poker. How did this happen and how many meanings does it have?

10 Comments
2025/01/27
23:51 UTC

14

I took up the gauntlet you threw down. We duel now, yes?

Is that how it works?

I'm talking about the phrases "throw down the gauntlet," and "take up the gauntlet." From my understanding to throw one's gauntlet down is to issue a challenge or a duel, and to take up the gauntlet is to accept a challenge or duel.

Does anyone know the history behind these phrases? And do I pick up the challengers gauntlet? Or do I throw my own down? Who picks up whose?

Thanks for your consideration.

8 Comments
2025/01/27
23:34 UTC

5

Etymology of rare last name Balizany

I am intrested to hear your thoughts on the origin of the last name, potential meaning and etymology of it.

A close relative on my maternal side a few generations back, links to the family of Ballizany. The photographer Wilhelm Ballizany from Kleve Germany, following this line it seems to move to the Netherlands. Where I can track it back to Wilhelm Gustaaf Friedrich Ballizany and his father Theodor.

This side of the family has travelled to what once was “Dutch East Indies”, now Indonesia. Which brings me to my idea/thought that the last name Ballizany could have had smth to do with that. It is just an odd name for the time and place, I keep wondering about it’s potential origin.

I am intrested to hear your thoughts!

6 Comments
2025/01/27
22:26 UTC

27

Arabic articles kept in words borrowed into Romance languages and others

Hi, I have been wondering for a while why the ال (al-) article from Arabic was preserved in many loanwords specifically in Romance languages of Iberia (English also does this but way less frequently). I'm talking about how words like:

-Portuguese: alfombra, almôndega, azeite, aldea, arroz, álcool

-Spanish: alfombra, albóndiga, aceite, albahaca, alcalde, aldea, arroz, alcohol

-Catalan: alfàbrega, alcalde, aldea, atzucac, arròs, alcohol

-English: alcohol

I have been taking a look at the wiktionary and in many cases, languages like Somali, Persian or others don't usually preserve the article (in the cases I have seen, I might be wrong). Why could be that?

And the main question is, why is it so prevalent that we preseve the arabic article while, for example, English people don't preserve the Spanish article in all the hispanisms English has or other languages preserve the "the" when borrowing words from English?

22 Comments
2025/01/27
20:10 UTC

0

Soul, Sol-, and Sol

Soul (as in inner self), Sol- (as in alone or sole), and Sol (as in Latin for sun)

I’ve seen conflicting posts regarding whether these are related. But some don’t have any sources and are a few years old. Anybody have any sources on any combination of these three?

3 Comments
2025/01/27
19:43 UTC

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