I have very basic knowledge of modern Chinese (enough to translate a text with a dictionary), and I did a few classes of CC at university, which I mostly forgot. I am now reading Classical Chinese for Everyone just to get a taste of the language, see if I would like to deepen my knowledge of the language, and be able to parse some basic texts.

In the first chapter, it explains 也 as a copula, and shows it used both with nouns (犬獸也) and with stative verbs (山高也). However, I am unsure about two things:

1. It seems like, with stative verbs, the stative verb itself is enough, so I could write 山高. Would the meaning change in any way? The book says that 也 is often used with general, universal truths... Would this mean that 山高也 means 'mountains (by definition) are tall', and 山高 would mean 'a mountain is tall'?

2. Can I omit the copula with nominals? Would 犬獸 work, for instance?

i need it for my university's research, i find it on a chinese a site but i can't buy it because i'm not from china

Dear All,

I am a non-native student of the Chinese language with non-language major educational background. (I am tax attorney.) I speak modern Chinese pretty well (C1), so I decided to take up some classical Chinese. I found a teacher on italki/preply, and have been doing it for 1,5 years or so. We did the 成语故事, and started with unabridged texts, for me it was 韩非子 first, and 徕民 from 商君书. Teacher is OK with Shang Jun Shu, but I think he finds it a bit boring, and may like other texts.

So what would you read? When I studied Latin, the first unabridged text is generally De bello Gallico, and Anabasis for Greek etc. Is there any text in Chinese that is considered "easy" (like the ones mentioned in Latin or Greek), or difficult (like Cicero or Pindar)?

Please note that I did not major Chinese at the uni, so unfortunately I have very limited understanding of the classical Chinese culture.

I did a translation of Poem #1 in Li Bai's cycle of poems called "Six Border Strong point Songs."

I wanted to share this translation with yall and see if anyone had any feedback on how I can improve this translation.

My translation:

Six Border Strongpoint Songs
#1
In June, the Tianshan Mountains are still snowed in,
there are no flowers, only the cold.
From the flute, I hear the song, “Snapping Willow,”
we have not seen springtime.
At dawn, we battle, following the golden drum,
at night, we wrap ourselves in our jade saddles.
I hope to take my sword at my waist,
and straight up behead some folks from Loulan.

Here is the original:

五月天山雪，無花祗有寒。
笛中聞折柳，春色未曾看。
曉戰隨金鼓，宵眠抱玉鞍。
願將腰下劒，直爲斬樓蘭

I have a friend who is really into an animated series about mythical animals called 有兽焉. I am wondering if this title is in Classical Chinese, or if it is trying to give off a CC vibe. I especially ask because of 焉, which seems to be a particle in CC (my knowledge of CC is very lacking).

How could it be translated into English?

Thank you very much!

This is a subreddit post that will be posted every two weeks on Wednesday, where community members can share what texts they've been reading, any interesting excerpts, or even ask for recommendations!

I was recently reading about li qinzaho"s and hers husband's hobby of collceting inscriptions and how she made a catalogue of all the inscriptions she collected it sound like an amazing thing. It got me wondering is it still possible to collcect inscriptions ?

From my understanding the vast majority of Korean and Vietnamese writing was in Classical Chinese all the way until modern times; however Japan very early on after inventing kana began to write works in Classical Japanese, and this standardized form was used all the way until the Meiji restoration. So I'm wondering, what were the main works of Classical Chinese produced in Japan, and how did writers decide whether to use CC or Classical Japanese?

I am a Teochew heritage speaker and I was wondering if I learned Classical Chinese in Teochew literary readings, would it be different or harder than in Cantonese or mandarin?

I have been studying Classical Chinese (moreso dabbling) for several months now and I'm getting to a point where I'm curious what I should be aiming for. Latin is traditionally taught with the grammar-translation method (using a lexicon and a grammar to translate "by hand"), but a lot of modern scholars (see r/Latin) prefer the natural method (learning as if it were a living modern language) which allows fluency and ease of speaking-reading, sometimes even arguing that grammar-translation is detrimental.

I don't speak modern Chinese and I don't plan to learn anytime soon (though perhaps in the distant future.) I am mainly interested in producing my own translations of obscure archaic and medieval texts, mainly for my personal use. However I don't know if I should prioritize a natural method over a grammar-translation method.

What do most scholars prefer these days, in Asia and abroad? Are they sitting down with grammars and dictionaries and writing glosses, or are they treating it like Mandarin or Cantonese?

If so, does anyone have a breakdown of it? Or is it only partially Classical Chinese?

What is the purpose of 以 in 「子曰：父母之年，不可不知也。一則以喜，一則以懼。」. While I understand the meaning of the sentence all right, the 以 seems a bit redundant (??)

The usages listed in the English Wiktionary aren't helping much, and neither are the ones in the Japanese page (もちいる、もって、～によって、～ゆえに、～より).

Hello, so I’m pretty familiar with Japanese, so I’ve recently begun learning the Viet readings of the sinographs used in CC (to help with Japanese > Viet vocabulary transfer plus its more relevant to me), but I noticed a ton of characters have alt readings for different meanings, or for whatever reason 😭 like 下 being read hạ if it’s just down, and há if it’s the verb for go down/fall down or whatever (same with thượng & thướng). Plus some chars just have even more readings like wtf. It’s pretty straightforward for the aforementioned words, but not as much for others, so is it worth going out of my way to make the distinction? Like, same spiel for Japanese can be made ig but idk it feels more concrete since your memorizing nouns as combinations of sinitic roots written in sinographs, or just a sinogrpah representing a native word. I’m just not that sure atm about the function of the sinographs as morphemes/full on words ig in CC, which makes it kinda difficult. At least from what I’ve read, the same thing is present when learning the Mandarin readings as well, so just curious on how you guys tackled it 👀

I'm thinking about learning to read the cursive style 草書, primarily to read old books and paintings, but I'm having trouble finding good resources online. For anyone who has experience reading old documents, what did you find were the best learning resources? I can read modern Chinese and Japanese.

In the book "The Japanese Language" by Haruhiko Kindaichi, there are two letters cited from 源平盛衰記 to illustrate the difference between the letter of a man and that of a woman:

A man's letter:

直実護言上 不慮奉参会此君之間挿呉王得匈践 秦皇遇燕丹之嘉直欲決勝負刻 依拝容儀俄忘 怨敵之思忽拠武威之勇剰加守護奉共奉之処

(Naozane tsutsushinde gonjoo su. Furyo ni kono kimi ni sankai shi tatematsuru no aida, Go-oo Koosen o e, Shinkoo Entan ni oo no kachoku o sashihasande shabu o kessen to hossuru no kizami ...)

A woman's letter:

そののちたよりなきみなしどごとなりはて、おんゆく へをゃもうけたまはるたよりもなし。みのありさま をもしられまあゐらせず、いぶせさのみつもぁもれども、 よのなかかきくらしてはるるととこちなくはべり。…

Is the man's letter in Japanese or is it really just entirely in Classical Chinese (漢文/言文)? Are there any similar conventions in today (documents written entirely using kanji, mostly using Sinicized Japanese/Classical Chinese)?

I have been all over the place with my attempts to read Classical Chinese and since I've largely been unsatisfied with my results, I'd rather ask you guys.

Assume I have just finished a basic course of Classical Chinese - so I know the grammar and some common characters, and that I have a dictionary. What Classical text should I attempt to read?

ChatGPT suggested the Three Character Classic, and that could be an idea, but I'm more specifically interested in early texts, before the Han dinasty. Some would say the Analects but the lack of context makes reading them kinda challenging. Others have told me the Shiji is a good starting point, but unfortunately there isn't a publicly available translation I can look up when in doubt. What do you think?

(I am a native speaker)

This question is for a school project idea of making such an application.

I found this on an old tenugui (kendo head scarf) I had received as a gift from somewhere. Although I'm familiar with a lot of characters, I'm having trouble identifying them. I'm not even familiar with the styles of strokes here. Please help.

What are these??

Update with an answer:
Found this answer in one of Japanese kendo forums:
ポルトさん 酔剣さんからのお答えのとおりですが，私も警視庁の先生から同じ手ぬぐいをいただいたことがあり，付記されていた説明をメモしておりましたのでご参考まで下に転記いたします。原田選手であったか内村選手であったか定かでありませんが，近年の全日本選手権の際に，この得剛の手ぬぐいで大会に臨んでおられるのをテレビで拝見した記憶があります。 ---------------------------------------- 「得剛」 昭和十六年（一九四一）八月警視庁職員武道の殿堂として二百四畳敷の『得剛館（とくごうかん）』が竣工しました。この道場を命名したのは、当時の第四十八代山崎巌警視総監でその出典は論語公冶長第五といわれています。 「子曰、吾未見剛者。或対日、申棖、子曰、棖也慾、焉得剛。」 （子曰わく、吾未だ剛なる者を見ず。或る人対（こた）えて曰わく、申棖（しんとう）あり、子曰わく、棖や慾あり、いずくんぞ剛なるを得ん。） に由来するものです。 剛とは堅強不屈の意で、堅忍不抜の意思をもって自己の欲望に打ち勝って修行する真の勇者のことをいい、警視庁剣道は、この得剛館で培われた烈烈の闘魂をそのまま今日に受け継いでいます。 われわれ連盟会員一同、かって『得剛館』で先輩諸氏が日夜精進されていたことをしのび、より一層警視庁剣道の発展を目指し精進することを誓いたいものです。

Translation to English:
Dear Porto,

As 酔剣 (Suiken) mentioned in their response, I too received the same tenugui (hand towel) from a teacher at the Metropolitan Police Department, and I had taken notes on the explanation that was attached, so I will transcribe it below for your reference. Although I’m not sure whether it was Harada or Uchimura, I recall seeing one of them using this Tokugo tenugui during the All-Japan Championships on television in recent years.

"得㓻"

In August of Showa 16 (1941), a 200 tatami-mat dojo named 'Tokugokan' was completed as a martial arts hall for the employees of the Metropolitan Police Department. The person who named this dojo was the 48th Superintendent General of the Metropolitan Police Department, Iwao Yamazaki, and it is said that the name comes from the Analects of Confucius, specifically from the fifth chapter of Gongye Chang.

“The Master said, I have yet to meet a person who is truly firm. Someone replied, 'What about Shen Tong?' The Master said, 'Tong is full of desires, how can he be firm?'”

The word "firm" (剛, gō) refers to a strong, unyielding spirit. It signifies a true warrior who trains with steadfast perseverance and overcomes their own desires. The kendo of the Metropolitan Police Department has inherited the fierce fighting spirit cultivated in Tokugokan to this day.

We, the members of the Federation, reflect on the diligent training of our predecessors at 'Tokugokan' and vow to strive even harder for the further development of the Metropolitan Police Department's kendo.

Hello, I am a student of fine arts in Prague and I fell in love with ancient chinese stuff, especially paintings and the literature (dao). I am studying now in Beijing ink painting for one semester and after I graduate in Prague I want to visit Taiwan for artist residency (6months) and then I want to study Phd focuses on ancient chinese ink painting and visit taiwan. I have been learning mandarin for 3 months (just one day per week) but now I want to start to study everyday. What do you think is the reastical time for me to learn 文言文 if I have to learn normal mandarin now.. like 10 years? Including the mandarin? Thanks!

This is a subreddit post that will be posted every two weeks on Wednesday, where community members can share what texts they've been reading, any interesting excerpts, or even ask for recommendations!

So I have translated a poem by the Qing military and political figure Zuo Zongtang (famous in the chicken dish, General Tsuo's Chicken, which has something to do with him). I am struggling with a particular problem.

Here is the original:

癸巳燕台杂感

西域环兵不计年，当时立国重开边。
橐驼万里输官稻，沙碛千秋比石田。
置省尚烦他日策，兴屯宁费度支钱。
将军莫更纾愁眼，生计中原亦可怜。

Here is my translation:

Random Thoughts from Yan Pavillion in 1893

In the Western Regions, the troops are all circled up for countless years,

At the time the nation was founded, they reestablished the borders [in Xinjiang, like the Han and the Tang had]. 

Camels carrying saddles of government rice 10,000 miles,

a thousand autumns in this barren desert is like a field of rocks. 

To set up [Xinjiang] as a province, we’ll have to come up with a plan for another day,

setting up colonies will take care of the problem of budgeting the money.

General, don’t add to your worried eyes, 

life in the Central Plain [the Chinese core] is also rough.

My question: what the heck is 癸巳 doing here. I think 癸巳 is a reference to the 60 year cycle, but that corresponds to the dates of either 1833 or 1893, which is strange because General Zuo died in 1885.

Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Also, anyone who sees things that can be improved about the poem, please let me know.

Hello! I am interested in locating the intra-Buddhist and Buddhist/Daoist debates from the Tang dynasty. Where can these be found in their original Chinese?

Seeing as the language the ancients spoke is so far away from modern Mandarin, I'm guessing this radically changes how the poem sounds when spoken nowadays. How do Chinese decide upon the inflection and pace etc when reciting poems nowadays, or if singing, the melody? I'm guessing both the rhyme and the meter is thrown off when reciting in Mandarin. Is there something that has been lost as we can't replicate how it was supposed to sound, if the phonetic aspect was such a huge part of the poem? Do the poems lose poetic value? (These last two questions might be subjective but I'm very interested in discussing this).

Resources for further reading regarding this is also appreciated

I'm in no way affiliated with the movie, I just wanted to spread the word and heavily recommend this biopic of one of the world's most renowned English translators of classical Chinese poetry and Buddhist texts. To me it was very inspiring. And if you haven't, I really recommend reading his commentary about translating from CC to English, available as a small excerpt in the movie or in full in his chapbook "Cathay Revisited & Dancing with the Dead".

“So I’ve come to realize that translation is not just another literary art. It’s the ultimate literary art. For me this means a tango with Li Bai, or a waltz with Wing-Wu. But in any case, a dance with the dead.”

https://watch.showandtell.film/watch/redpine

The film tells the adventurous and sometimes comical adventures of Bill Porter (Red Pine), a world-renowned translator of ancient Chinese poetry, who ignited a movement in China to seek inner peace through poetry and mountain solitude. In these fraught times of political and economic relations with China, Bill is a living bridge between the two cultures, a bridge that is supported by ancient poetry and understanding.

I teach Baguazhang and am fond of a phrase from the Bagua classics that reads 前后两手一团神 and am thinking of paraphrasing it with a four character phrase, have it written out with a brush, and displayed where I teach or maybe at home. My instinct is to reduce it to 二手团神, but I’m not absolutely sure I can or should do that. 两手团神 strikes me as less 文言文. Thoughts?

The inscription recounts that shortly after King Cheng of Zhou founded the new capital, he held a sacrificial ceremony following the customs established in King Wu's time. Then he addressed the scions of the royal clan at the court, reminding them that King Wen had received the Mandate of Heaven and that King Wu had successfully overthrown the Shang, thanks in no small part to the loyal support of their elders. King Cheng urged the younger generation to follow in their ancestors' footsteps and fulfill their duties with dedication. After the address, King Cheng bestowed gifts on He, who later commissioned this vessel in memory of his ancestor.