/r/ChineseHistory

Photograph via snooOG

A community for those interested in the history of China and the various peoples of China. Discussion, discoveries and debates are all welcome.

Do you have a question about Chinese history? Feel free to post it here!

Also, please keep in mind that while any user is welcome to create flair here, the users with the yellow flair really know their stuff. If you've studied an area in depth and want yellow flair, send the mods a message!

PLEASE NOTE: If you try to directly submit a link and it does not appear right away, it is in the modqueue! A moderator will approve it asap, and then it will appear on /r/chinesehistory. So don't panic if the link you submit doesn't appear right away - it will!

And a shout-out to some fellow subreddits! Check out /r/chinabookclub for some interesting reading!

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/r/ChineseHistory

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1

How on earth did Zhengde defeat Dayan khan

It's so ridiculous and badass at the same time he masterfully out maneuvers and surrounded a larger army while haveing no military experience mean while his opponent is dayan khan best mongol khan in 2 centurys the victory at yingzhou should have been impossible yet zhengde who was basically a man child accomplished the impossible they say their were only 18 confirmed killes but I believe that is probably ming confucian burecrats who hate him and qing dynasty rewriting that did that. Still it's incredible that he won.

0 Comments
2024/11/10
05:35 UTC

9

What did parents call their children in ancient china?

Did they call their children by their names or did they use an honorific?

Would it have been different for a strict noble family?

And would there be any difference depending on the gender and age of the child?

Thank you 🙇🏻

4 Comments
2024/11/09
16:43 UTC

3

Books on the influences of Chinese, Korean and Japanese cultures

Hello, I'm looking for books that explore how, over the centuries, the three countries influenced each others cultures, art etc. Deep dives into the influences of specific dynasties are welcome, too.

0 Comments
2024/11/09
11:10 UTC

14

Stuffed silk and cotton Chinese shoe mold for bound feet, c. 1900.

4 Comments
2024/11/09
01:50 UTC

13

How come Hong Kong never developed strong domestic porn industry and in turn exportation market for XXX movies the way Japan did (despite strong capitalism and a lot looser regulation in the HK movie industry)?

I been wondering about this considering the island's reputation for capitalism and as a prostitution hub esp in tandem with its strong film industry famed for exporting martial arts movies to the rest of the world.........

Why didn't Hong Kong develop a strong adult video market and other XXX goods the way Japan did? Especially as an export market (which Japan is known to be the largest in Asia for porno movies)?

And before someone brings up some rant about CCP censorship and stuff of that sort, it can't really be the answer at all since even back at the height of Hong Kong martial arts cinema in the 70s and 80s, there was no profitable adult niche market sending videos to all over the world of sexy HK girls the way Japan's AV industry makes huge profits from Western subscribers and exporting DVDs worldwide. Especially when you consider the fact increasing censorship inspired by pressure from China, the Hong Kong movie industry still releases stuff that would be R Rated in America for sexual content such as Due West: Our Sex Journey.

So I'm wondering why despite the mass issues with prostitution and how Hong Kong got a reputation for "happy massage parlors" internationally (or at least in many Western countries POV), did HK not create a local AV industry early on to become one of the great powers of the XXX market in the world just like Japan did?

8 Comments
2024/11/08
23:33 UTC

243

Many people, including Chinese officials, professors say, “Tang culture is preserved in Japan, Ming culture is preserved in Korea, and neither is in China”, What do you think?

95 Comments
2024/11/08
23:19 UTC

27

Old-antique painting my grandfather bought in China 30 yrs ago… anyone know who this figure may be?

My best 3 guesses are Mulan Hua, Lady from Yue, or Liang Hongyu. IMO she’s either a folklore/historical figure or Taoist Deity. Its painted on silk so old its brittle… AI says it resembles the style of paintings found in Song Dynasty if that helps? Just very curious whos hanging on my wall lol… The Sword being green seems significant somehow… Any thoughts?

2 Comments
2024/11/08
00:37 UTC

32

Why is the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period of Imperial China not as popular as the Warring States period of Ancient China ?

Why is the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period of Imperial China not as popular as the Warring States period of Ancient China ?

26 Comments
2024/11/06
02:53 UTC

59

Why do people actually think nomads won more

It's quite ridiculous the han annihilation of the xiongnu is completely ignored and so is hongwu and yongles campaigns in mongolia or even zhengdes victory at yingzhou or the Tang pacifacation of gokturks or even yue feis half of Jin I saw some person post on this sub with like 56 upvotes it just seems like people are encouraged to say stupied stuff.

69 Comments
2024/11/05
23:50 UTC

108

Why did Wu Zetian lose so much territory during her reign, but nowadays Chinese people praise her, is it just because she was the only female emperor in the history of China, or is it because Chinese people don't know that she lost so much territory? Why does no one criticize her for that?

52 Comments
2024/11/05
20:26 UTC

0

Compared to other nations in 1900, how powerful was the Qing Dynasty?

13 Comments
2024/11/05
00:01 UTC

4

Did China not have a true national army until the CCP?

My study focus is mostly the early Tang, so I’m lacking wider historical context, but I read this comment earlier:

“One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that China never had a truly national army until the establishment of the CCP; the Chinese state relied on powerful generals throughout history to provide armies; even the Qing relied on these generals. As a result, their power was enormous. For example, the Qing had little interest in coastal affairs, but due to pressure from powerful Han generals consented to the invasion of Taiwan.“

How true is this? I assume the answer to this question is at least somewhat complex.

36 Comments
2024/11/04
14:56 UTC

21

About the authenticity of human swine, Consort Qi's limbs were cut off, her eyes were gouged out, she was made deaf and dumb, and thrown into a toilet. Some documents say she lived for a few days after that, while others say she lived for several months. Was this medically possible in ancient China?

20 Comments
2024/11/04
09:50 UTC

63

Why did Chinese dynasties struggle so much with nomadic peoples (Mongols, Manchus, etc.)?

This is a question I have since I watched a course on Chinese history by Professor Kenneth Hammond. It's a constant in Chinese history of dynasties being humiliated by nomads (who would then form new dynasties that would eventually be destroyed by other nomads). China was much more developed (compared to the nomads) and had a "professional" army (I'm not sure if that’s the best way to classify it). The question came up again when I was reading about the Mongol conquests. But there may also be similarities with the early Turkish conquests in the Middle East and Anatolia. How were well-structured empires so fragile in the face of some nomad cultures?

82 Comments
2024/11/02
22:35 UTC

11

Reference to "khwai shuh"?

I was reading an old article about automata throughout mythology/history and came upon this line:

"In China, too, the wise men cultivated the art of khwai shuh, by which a statue or portrait could be brought to life and employed as a slave."

The article is adapted from a book, Human Robots in Myth and Science (1967) by John Cohen.

Does anyone have any ideas of what "khwai shuh" is referring to? There was no Chinese transliteration and the spelling doesn't cohere to modern pinyin (as far as I know). Even just the Chinese characters would be a huge help. I'm trying to get my hands on the book so I can read the author's references (if there are any) but any leads would be tremendously helpful.

Also, there is no other context provided in the article about that line, so that's all I have to work with.

9 Comments
2024/11/02
18:23 UTC

3

Really good books of recent scholarship on the KMT and the NRA.

Are there any good books on the History of the KMT And the development of the NRA?

5 Comments
2024/11/02
17:33 UTC

35

Do Chinese people claim the Yuan and Qing dynasty as their own?

From an outside perspective they're considered Chinese, but how do modern Chinese think about these non-native dynasties?

168 Comments
2024/11/01
13:08 UTC

6

In the Qing Dynasty (清朝), why would the Emperor (皇帝) usually avoid promoting any of his concubines (嬪妃) to the rank of Imperial Noble Consort (皇貴妃) while the Empress (皇后) was still alive?

6 Comments
2024/11/01
05:00 UTC

3

Were animal offerings and human sacrifices actually done when using the I Ching in the past?

As I read through a translation of the Book of Changes without any commentaries (not even the Ten Wings),

I'm really creeped out about demands to sacrifice captives from other states. Human sacrifices?!!!! Asking this seriously if this is really what the text is talking about.

In addition the texts also often includes in the opening description for many hexagram about making a sacrifice as an offering. I'd assume this means something like killing a goat or a cow or some other animals at an altar to a god after making a reading?

So I ask as someone who does engage in I Ching with modern tools (like apps and beginner's boxed kits , etc), were the human sacrifices and animal offerings as described in barebones translations without commentaries (esp without 10 Wings and other early additions), actually done in the past? So were early Chinese dynasties killing animals and even human beings every time they were doing forecasts using the I Ching method?

Were these sacrifices (if they were done as the I Ching translation I'm reading describes) gifts given to gods and goddesses from Chinese religions and mythology such as Guanyin?

9 Comments
2024/10/31
04:49 UTC

22

Today is Chiang's birth anniversary, which makes me think about a question: Although the United States later helped China to defeat Japan together, the United States was in fact the biggest supplier to Japan in the early part of the WW2. Should the Chinese still be grateful to the United States?

51 Comments
2024/10/31
03:14 UTC

1

Excavated 6th-7th Century Korean Tiles. Are These Chinese?

https://smarthistory.org/eight-baekje-tiles-with-various-designs/

The designs are obviously beautiful and at the very least inspired by Chinese art. From what I understand, these were found at a site corresponding to the final capital of the Baekje kingdom at Sabi (538-660 AD).

I’m primarily concerned about the phoenix tile and its entire design.

What I’m asking specifically, is if the phoenix tile design, complete with the phoenix inside a circular border and the corner connectors, is if this specific design found only in Baekje?

Can this or a similar depiction of this design of the phoenix be found elsewhere in Korea, China, Japan or anywhere else?

Thank you!

2 Comments
2024/10/30
20:16 UTC

38

How religious was the royal/imperial courts of ancient China?

From what I've seen, it seems like our of all the major civilization in pre-industrial history, China seemed to be very atheistic when it comes to governance. Is this true?

Other civilizations seemed to highly politicize religion, with priests and such in very high positions of powers. However, it seems rare for China to do this. Of course they had the Three Teachings, but they seemed to be not as likely to be used to justify political decisions. What do you think?

43 Comments
2024/10/30
18:51 UTC

0

Opium trade

I often see on the internet people stating how bad the British were with the opium trade and how the Chinese wanted them to stop because so many people became addicted.

I was talking to my father, he said part of this is to fit a narrative because the Chinese government at the time did not care since they were already actively involved in the opium trade themselves and probably would have continued anyway had all the money gone to themselves (to an extent?).

How true is this?

Edit: I don't know why I'm being downvoted I just want to learn.

43 Comments
2024/10/30
17:34 UTC

4

Recommendations for sources on slavery/concubinage during th Tang Dynasty (post-750 CE)?

I'm writing a paper and need to compare and contrast slavery in the Abbasid Caliphate to slavery during the Tang Dynasty and I haven't been able to find more than one academic source in English that kind of works for this and it either doesn't specify dates or mostly refers to slavery under the Tang during the 600s (Daily Life in Traditional China: the Tang dynasty by Charles D. Benn).

Does anyone here know if should be trying a different type of library database search other than "slavery tang china" or of any academic books that mention slavery during the Tang Dynasty?

9 Comments
2024/10/30
17:28 UTC

20

Chinese soldiers from world wars

I grew up in the UK, a lot of my friends have many stories of their grandparents or great-grandparents participating in the world wars with many being around today still.

I'm from Hong Kong originally and have family from GZ but I don't seem to know anyone who was a soldier or was actively involved with the wars in China from around that period. Perhaps there have been some mentions but there are no details and perhaps I've not really asked but in the UK you don't really need to before the topic seems to come up at some point. It's not unusual for there to be photos, war memorabilia, or records of some sort.

Can someone explain why this might be the case?

38 Comments
2024/10/30
17:19 UTC

0

The rigorous counting of "Chinese Civilization"?

Here I use the most rigorous definition of "Chinese civilization" that the Chinese civilization must be both "civilization of China" and "civilization of Chinese (people)". And I choose to define the start of the Chinese civilization as the foundation of the (Western) Zhou Dynasty, since Zhou Dynasty was the first regime to self-claim both Zhong-guo and Hua-Xia, and I discard any regime founded by non-ethnic-Chinese people even if they self-claimed China or Chinese, such as Yuan and Qing.

Chinese Civilization:

Western Zhou to Southern Song: 1046BC - 1279 AD = 2325 years

Ming (including Southern Ming): 1368 - 1662 = 294 years

ROC to now: 1912 - 2024 = 112 years

So the result is: 2325 + 294 + 112 = 2731 years with 2325 years of continuous civilization.

As a comparison:

Kemet (ancient Egypt) Civilization

If we don't count the highly Egyptized Kushite Empire, i.e., the 25th Dynasty of Egypt, as part of the Kemet civilization:

1st to 14th dynasty and 16th to 24th dynasty: 3150BC -720BC = 2430 years

26th dynasty: 653BC - 525BC = 128 years

28th dynasty to 30th dynasty: 404BC - 343BC = 61 years

So the result is: 2430 + 128 + 61 = 2619 years with 2430 years of continuous civilization.

If we count the 25th dynasty:

1st to 14th dynasty and 16th to 26th dynasty: 3150BC - 525BC = 2625 years

28th dynasty to 30th dynasty: 404BC - 343BC = 61 years

So the result is: 2625 + 61 = 2686 years with 2625 years of continuous civilization.

Roman civilization:

If we don't count the modern Greece as the continuity of the Roman civilization:

founding of Rome-city to Angelos dynasty: 753BC - 1204 AD = 1957 years

Palaiologos dynasty: 1261 - 1453 = 192 years

So the result is: 1957 + 192 = 2149 years with 1957 years of continuous civilization.

If we count the modern Greece as the continuation of the Roman civilization since modern Greeks still more-or-less self-identified with Romans:

foundation of Rome-city to Angelos dynasty: 753BC - 1204 AD = 1957 years

Palaiologos dynasty: 1261 - 1453 = 192 years

Greek War of Independence to now: 1821 - 2024 = 203 years

So the result is: 1957 + 192 + 203 = 2352 years with 1957 years of continuous civilization.

So I really don't understand why some Chinese people like to claim the mysterious saying of "Five Thousand Years' Continuous Civilization", since their civilization is already long enough, possibly the longest, even in the most rigorous sense.

18 Comments
2024/10/30
16:35 UTC

16

Is it true that Ming dynasty officials foresaw that a growing merchant class would be a threat to the empire and intentionally suppressed them to keep the status quo?

And do you think of the theory that China could have had a quasi-French revolution in the future if Ming officials didn't suppress the bourgeois class?

9 Comments
2024/10/30
15:30 UTC

4

The legend of the white snake?

I heard about this mythologie story form china i was wondering how its viewed and if its a well known story i am writing about it for a history class and would like some input form people whom might grew up with it or know way more about it at this moment i am just starting the paper. just curious.

atm i only know the basics

4 Comments
2024/10/29
17:20 UTC

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