In Illiad Book 12, Polydamas and Hector verbally spar over some ill-omens. 

Hector looked fiercely at him and said, "Polydamas, I like not of your reading. You can find a better saying than this if you will. If, however, you have spoken in good earnest, then indeed has heaven robbed you of your reason. You would have me pay no heed to the counsels of Jove, nor to the promises he made me- and he bowed his head in confirmation; you bid me be ruled rather by the flight of wild-fowl. What care I whether they fly towards dawn or dark, and whether they be on my right hand or on my left? Let us put our trust rather in the counsel of great Jove, king of mortals and immortals. There is one omen, and one only- that a man should fight for his country. Why are you so fearful? Though we be all of us slain at the ships of the Argives you are not likely to be killed yourself, for you are not steadfast nor courageous. If you will. not fight, or would talk others over from doing so, you shall fall forthwith before my spear."

The language doesn't sound... particularly Greek to me. It sounds distinctly modern. An appeal to fight for your kinfolk, for your city, for your fellow citizenry, etc. That I would understand. But for your country? Troy was not what we would recognize as a country. I'm not sure you could even call it a nation.

So what language did Hector actually use? What precisely was the cultural context/implications of his appeal? Would a Greek warrior in the time of Homer have felt they owed duty and service to a 'Trojan Nation?'

I really want to get this book but I can't decide which edition to pick:

• The Penguin Classics Edition.
• The Oxford World's Classics Edition
• The Landmark Edition

I know that Loeb is also a good choice (maybe the best on actually) but I have both a limited budget and space, so I prefer to buy a single volume edition. Which edition is better and why? Is there any other one you want to suggest? Thank you in advance

Whether you are a student, a teacher, a researcher or a hobbyist, please share with us what you read this week (books, textbooks, papers...).

Hello, I am currently reading through Fitzgerald's Iiliad, not being a classics student myself nor knowledgeable in the language of the Ancient Greek peoples, there is yet a word I am fairly curious about it's use. When I was reading through Robert Fagles translation, "δῖος"(dios) usually coincided with "God-like", "brilliant", "gleaming" but in Fitzgerald's Iliad, as so far I've read till the end of Book 2, it is "Prince", as in "Prince Akhilleus" or "Prince Odysseus", or never translated at all. Could you elaborate on this, thank you.

I've just graduated high school, so now that I have more time on my hands, I'm looking to become more widely read. I think a good place to start is classics, so I've been making a reading list below. However, I'm not sure whether I should read them chronologically so as to see the 'development' of writing from the Greek Tragedies into the Latin prose, or whether I should take a more 'thematic' approach and 'start from the beginning' with specific categories of classics, such as plays, histories, essays, etc... though I realise there is a lot of crossover.

The reading list is currently:

Greek Tragedians all 5th century

Aeschylus - Oresteia

Aeschylus - The Persions

Euripides - Medea

Euripides - The Bacchae

Sophocles - Antigone

Sophocles - Oedipus Rex

Plato 50yrs post-Pericles, mid 4th century

The Republic

Euthyphro

Apology

Crito

Phaedo

Symposium

Meno

Gorgias

Protagoras

Aristotle mid-late 4th century

Nicomachean Ethics

Politics

Metaphysics

Cicero - On the Republic 51 BCE

Virgil during Principate

The Aeneid 30-19 BCE

The Georgics 37-30 BCE

The Eclogues 42-37 BCE

Horace - Satires & Odes 35, 13 BCE

Livy - History of Rome 27-9 BCE

Ovid - Metamorphoses 8 CE

Seneca 

Letters from a Stoic 65 CE

On the Shortness of Life

On the Happy Life

Suetonius - The Twelve Caesars 121 CE

Tacitus - Annals & Historiae early 2nd century CE

Aurelius - Meditations 180 CE

St Augustine - Confessions & The City of God 400 CE

Any and all advice appreciated. Thanks!

After finishing the Metamorphoses, what would you guys recommend to read from Ovid, as well any translators to go along with them? For reference I’ve read all of Stephanie McCarter’s translation and I really appreciated her vision behind translating his work. For classes I’ve looked at prose versions (I want to say Kline but can’t remember…) but I don’t particularly enjoy reading prosaic translations of verse, I love the poetry. The bits and pieces of Golding’s translations I adored for those same reasons. I’d say in a translation, I do really appreciate accuracy, perspective and voice, fluid poetic style, and fidelity, stand out a lot to me. I’d love to read translations that really invoke the essence of Ovid’s original text while respirating them. Also just like, not boring ones lol. I think in general his Heroides, As Amatoria, and his exiled works pique my interest the most. But are your guys’ opinions on these works (and add in your favourite translation, I can’t read Latin sadly). I find it’s really easy to see The Metamorphoses in the mainstream but it’s so difficult to find decent discussion around the others

I’m a Psychology and Sociology student currently and I am on my 2nd year. I enjoy my subjects I have chosen but I have always had a keen interest in Philosophy, which I do a lot of reading or googling in my free time and certain aspects cross over in Sociology for me at my University. However I was recently talking to a friend who studies Classics and she was telling me how that she started out studying Philosophy but got very interested in studying Classics as she started looking into some of the Philosophers she studied and the work they did. She has gave me a few recommendations of introductions to Classics but I find them a bit complex at the moment due to my lack of knowledge apart from basics. I was wondering has anyone got a good book or even video for people trying to get into Classics or like Classical Poems or Ideas?

In the Sophocles play, Antigone buries her brother twice. After the first burial, the grave is desecrated by the guards. She continues to bury Polynices yet again.

What would the theological implications of the desecration be? Would anyone in Thebes(or the underworld) believe that the burial rights Antigone first gave him were undone by the desecration? Or would the desecration not matter theologically because he was already given his burial rights?

Apologies if this is not a truly classics related question. Not sure where else to post this question.

I'm reading the Stanley Lombardo translation of Homer Iliad for a class, and I've noticed that Odysseus is the only character who Identifies himself by his son and not his father. I know that Family lineage was a big deal in Greece at the time, but Odysseus seems to be the only character who references his son and not his dad. What's the significance of this? It it accurate to the original text or a choice Lombardo made? I would assume Homer used it to emphasize the father/son relationship since it's really important in the Odyssey,, but is there any context I'm missing?
Here's some example quotes so you guys know what I'm referring to:

• "As you were just now, my name isn't Odysseus And may I never again be called Telemachus' father If I don't lay hold of you, strip your ass naked," (book 2, lines 281-283)
• "You will have a chance to see, if you really care, How Telemachus' father mixes it up With the horse-whipping Trojans." (book 4 lines 375-377)

Other characters even Identify him by his father

• "Son of Laertes in the line of Zeus, Odysseus, the master tactician, I don't mean to give you a hard time" (Book 4 line 381-383)

Hello. I need some help with ancient languages. I am working towards a goal of getting my PhD in Classical Archaeology. I did my undergrad degree in Cultural Anthropology and a double minor in Art History and Classical Civilizations. I also recently completed a 2 year MA program in Art History and Archaeology of the Ancient Mediterranean and Near East, Including Egypt. I also got a German translation certificate during my MA and fieldwork experience in Greece.

However, like many people in undergrad, I discovered my love and passion for classics a bit late and couldn't afford to take extra classes in the ancient languages so I studied them on my own a bit. However, I am taking a gap before I go into my PhD so I can figure this out. Now I am desperately looking for advice about the ancient languages that I need to catch up on in order to get into PhD programs. Do people suggest doing a post-bacc or certificate for ancient languages and know any good programs (I'm in the US)? Or have any advice in general? Thanks!

So I’ve made it to book 8 in Emily Wilson’s translation and I love it, and really appreciate her footnotes, but I’ve noticed something that’s kind of starting to annoy me slightly. It’s all her “with this” and “at this” and “with that” after a major dialogue or battle or anything really. This is my first time reading Homer, and so I don’t know if this is normal with other translations or not. But I’m not sure if I can keep going with this translation and might try Fagles. Not sure. What are your thoughts on this?

hi all, what exactly is the second sentence in this paragraph saying? These are lines 1055-1061 of the Agamemnon in the Oresteia.

I'm planning on jumping into his plays. What translations would you recommend? I prefer something that captures the spirit rather than something focused on a literal word for word translation. Nice intros to each play are good too.

Hi all, I would like to read some of Plutarch's work; particularly, the Lives is of interest to me. However, there seem to be many 'versions' (by different publishers) of the Lives online, each version spread across many volumes, and it is unclear which of these are complete and which aren't. Since I'll be reading a translation, I'd rather stick with the same translator throughout for the sake of consistency. It appears that the Penguin series is complete; does anyone have any experience with the quality of these translations? There is also an Oxford World Classics series on Plutarch; I generally favor OWC for the quality introductions and notes; is this version of the Lives complete? Finally, are there any different translations or versions that you would recommend? And any advice going in? Thanks everyone.

Hey there! I'd like to know your comments about the following master courses:

-MSc Classics, University of Edinburgh.

-Classics MA, University of Nottingham.

-Classics and the Ancient World MA, King's College.

-Classics MA, University College London.

I'm an international student, and I've already received offers from Edinburgh and Nottingham, so I'm waiting to see what they say about my application in the last two.

What is your opinion about the mentioned courses? I didn't study classics on my undergrad studies, but philosophy; but there I could study Greek, Latin and ancient philosophy, and also I could study Homer and Hesiod by my own while doing my thesis, so my objective is to develop my training on both languages, but also to deepen my understanding of classics' methodologies.

I'm pretty sure I could do all of that in all the courses; but do you have any specific recommendation? And why?

I'd love to read you so I can make a better decision!

Does anyone know of academic editions of the Aeneid that include both the Latin text and an English translation on facing pages (similar to the Loeb Classics), aside from the Loeb edition? I’m looking for alternative editions because I haven’t been able to find a physical copy of the Loeb edition available for purchase near me. Any recommendations or guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Whether you are a student, a teacher, a researcher or a hobbyist, please share with us what you read this week (books, textbooks, papers...).

Hi! I saw this post on tiktok does anybody know anything else on this subject or know what sources talk about this?

Hi again, I'm interested in the concept of learning the lessons of the past. One question that comes to mind is how to know what these lessons are. These days there are a lot of challenges in our society. Can the classical world help us? Is there scholarship on this topic that's rigorous?

Is the translation readable and enjoyable for example? I try to avoid repetitive translations because they’re a turn off for me

Hi all, I have wanted to experience classical literature for a while, and I am finally beginning my journey. I would like to, at some point, read through Ovid's Metamorphoses, however I have been shying away from it for one particular reason: the work's depth. I have seen mixed thoughts on Metamorphoses online, some describing the work as essential classical reading and others complaining about its lack of depth as compared to, say, Virgil. So I come here to ask, is there much depth to Metamorphoses? Can it be interpreted in different ways? Is there more to the text than the words themselves? And, as a related question, how philosophical is the work? Thanks for any help you can give me.

(And a relationship to the Greek and Roman classics)

Listening to The Old Man and the Sea narrated by Donald Sutherland was a real surprise. Typically, I don’t listen to fiction audiobooks, but I was looking for something short while preparing dinner and came across it. Sutherland’s voice suited the story wonderfully, adding great depth to the experience. Although he reads slowly, carefully enunciating each word, this pace gives space to appreciate the simplicity and weight of Hemingway's writing.

I didn’t realize the book was so short—the version I listened to was only around two and a half hours. Yet, despite its brevity, it has a timeless, classic feel. The writing is straightforward, not overly descriptive, yet it holds a surprising depth. Told primarily from the perspective of one character, the story pulls you into his mind, letting you feel his inner monologue and sparse responses to his own thoughts. It was reminiscent of The Road by Cormac McCarthy; I wouldn’t be surprised if McCarthy took some inspiration from Hemingway, or even directly from The Old Man and the Sea.

While on the surface it’s about fishing, the story feels like a metaphor for life itself, making it surprisingly emotional and impactful. There’s a meditative quality to it, as we follow the old man and his quiet, solitary thoughts. The violence also took me by surprise. The details of killing fish and other sea creatures aren’t overly graphic, but they’re striking and intentional, adding layers to the story. This brutality underscores both the harsh realities of life and the resilience of the human spirit. In impossible situations, Hemingway seems to say, a person can find the strength to push forward.

In The Old Man and the Sea, Santiago’s battle with the marlin echoes the Greco-Roman ideal of arete—the pursuit of excellence through resilience and skill in the face of adversity. Like Greek heroes such as Odysseus, Santiago faces both physical hardship and the limits of human endurance, determined to prove his strength and worth. His struggle is not just against nature but also against his limitations, embodying a heroism that resonates with classical ideals. Santiago’s journey, though marked by suffering, speaks to the timeless theme of finding purpose and dignity in relentless pursuit, a concept central to Greco-Roman philosophy and mythology.

The prose is beautiful, creating vivid imagery of the man’s struggle at sea. Though it’s a tragedy, I found it unexpectedly optimistic. Despite how things turned out, his effort wasn’t in vain. The old man’s struggle profoundly impacts the boy, and that alone makes his journey worth it. There’s something timeless in the idea that hardship makes us stronger, and this story is a powerful depiction of that truth.

Alone, with no food or sleep, it’s just the old man, the fish, and his thoughts on the boat. The Old Man and the Sea is perfectly written in its simplicity. If classics aren’t usually your thing, this book might not completely change your mind, but it’s a fantastic, short, and powerful one to try. Straightforward and deeply resonant, I highly recommend it.

I recently created a blog where I discuss books. If anyone is interested I can share the link!

I heard her say once in an interview that she made some changes of the paperback copy of her Odyssey from the hardcover, does anyone know what, exactly?

TLDR: For my next book club book, I’ve convinced my friends to read The Odyssey. However, I’m worried at the book order of events may not be very engaging, and my friends are already a little wary about reading it. So I’m contemplating reading in the chronological order of events rather than the order of the books. Do any of y’all have any experience or advice for doing this?

More info: I found a timeline (https://www2.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/homer/index.php?page=timelines) that might be useful, but I welcome your thoughts and suggestions. I’m a little worried that if I do try to read it chronologically according to events, we might lose some important set up or context and my friends might get lost.

Just some background: I have an informal book club with a few friends. We’re about to finish the Throne of Glass series by Sarah J. Maas (fantasy/romance if you’re unfamiliar), and I’ve convinced my friends that we should read The Odyssey next (which has similar story elements but is obviously a different vibe).

However, it has been a long time since I last read The Odyssey, and as I’ve been refamiliarizing myself with the events of the story, I realized that the order of events in the books are not chronological. I’m worried that starting with Book 1 and reading the story according to the order of the books rather than chronologically may not be as engaging at first and my friends might bail on the book.