So i got to cordy's death and im like sooo annoyed rn. Ik this has probably been talked about before but I'm a first time viewer but they just swept her under the rug like nothing. No one even grieved its like Anya's death all over again where they just say "aww" and then that's it. It's also frustrating how impactful they made Fred's death and not Cordy's considering shes been there since the pilot of angel AND buffy. I know there was tension between Joss and Charisma bc she got pregnant or whatever but I'm just so disappointed in cordy's writing in season 4 and 5.

Cyborgs have attacked Wolfram & Hart. Then, "Wesley's father" stole Devosynn's staff and used it on Angel to remove his free will. So that he would become his slave.

1. Why do the cyborgs want to make Angel their slave ?

2. Where do they come from ?

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The characters in each Tier are in order. The order throughout the Tier List is a combination of how much I like the characters and how they were written. It considers Tales of the Vampires and Tales of the Slayers and the possibly canon stuff from IDW and Seasons 8-12 of Dark Horse. Which is why Harmony Kendall is Listed so high, Dracula is Listed so high, Charles Gunn is Listed so relatively low, Riley Finn is listed so relatively high, Rupert Giles is Listed so relatively low, and is why Angel and Angelus are listed so relatively low (Season 8 and Season 9 permanently taints him and he's never really redeemed from it unlike Willow Rosenberg in Season 9 and after {however, Season 8 and Season 9 is why she's Listed after Faith Lehane}). And Drusilla Keeble is Listed first because she was never tainted or lessened in the possibly canoncial comics.

Create a Buffy, the Vampire Slayer characters Tier List - TierMaker (I added the Buffybot and all the Angel characters. The added pics are from the IMDb episode screenshots. It was very hard to get a good Lilah Morgan pic. She's next to Winfred Burkle in my List.)

It already took long enough to add all the added pics of the AtS characters. I don't include Melaka Fray and the various comicbook characters who may be canon.

When faux Cordy stabbed Lilah in the neck, do you remember your reaction?

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Anybody else remember Harmony being in Addams Family Values?

Rewatching Angel for the millionth time and I just realised in the first episode, Doyles vision was never about Tina, it was to save Cordy! They wanted her all along. Smart TPTB.

I finished AtS last night and restarted BtVS this morning. First scene with Cordelia talking is her saying how much she would love to live in LA. I never put the two together but having watched the whole of AtS and loving Cordy so much, this is so bitter sweet.

Darla plays a pretty big role, and has quite a bit of screen time and story lines for someone not in the main cast. I just started my first watching of Buffy this weekend. So imagine my surprise when I get to the 7th episode of Buffy. I guess, considering how prominent she is in Angel, I was expecting a lot more from her in Buffy....

I'm almost done with season 1, so I guess she could appear on flashbacks or something, but I don't see that happening like they do in Angel so often.

The title says it all!! These two were toxic & they knew it but I couldn’t help but want to watch them. Their hot sex scenes helped a lot with me rooting for this couple. I definitely ship them

Let me preface this by saying I’ve been a fan of both shows for nearly 10 years. I first watched them together as a high school senior

I’ve also been in LA for the majority of that time since. I’ve either lived, been associated with, or regularly go to nearly every setting and filming location of both shows in my daily life

As a high-schooler / college kid, I identified with Buffy more and considered it the better show. It has more of a flow and consistency to it.

However, as a working adult in the city I now see more in Angel.

In both shows, the demons or evil are more layered allegories — which is the Buffyverse’s strength. But Angel doesn’t have to stretch for its metaphors.

Things like housing, the corporate ladder, the city at night, poverty & corruption truly exist. Demon brothels fit naturally into the fabric of its setting

Buffy is obviously set in Central Coast, which doesn’t have as much going on. (Although it was filmed at Torrance, UCLA, Northridge, and Camarillo I think Sunnydale is set near Santa Barbara — give or take 25 miles)

I mean crime, military, etc. is all real there so it’s not out-of-touch. But the real world gets lost in the show, and it becomes this coming-of-age fantasy.

Anyhow just food for thought

Evil exist because exil people exist, the world is a godforsaken cesspool, and with war, famine, disease, people treating others like shit everyday angel as a show, is a metaphor for what's going on in the real world. Even just fighting, to live and exist is a fight.

I've never watched Buffy (Minus a random episode here or there). I didn't watch Angel when it originally aired, but shortly after it finished and the re-runs were on TNT in the morning while I was in college. I am now on my 5th watch through of Angel. I am at the birth of Jasmine in season 4. The last 4 episodes of season 4 are my least favorite story arc of the entire show. I loved everything up until that point. Just can't stand the Jasmine stuff.... so I was wondering, would this be a good spot to take a break and actually get around to watching Buffy? I thought maybe I should watch it all before I start season 5 of Angel. Cause honestly, I have no idea what happened with Spike between his Evil appearances on Angel to him then showing up in Season 5 as he does. No spoilers of course, but is it worth it or should I just keep on with Angel (I love season 5).

Would love to see it without having to buy the DVDs. I saw some behind-the-scenes footage from season three awhile ago on YouTube, but no longer can find it. If anyone has video links to the footage, please share. Thank you!

I'm super busy. Working 11 hour days, and being a kick ass dad and husband means I spent time with my kid and wife. I love Angel so much, ive rewatched this show so many times - id like to know what the most MUST WATCH episode are, skipping the filler episodes. There are plenty that can be skipped, but help me figure out how to best abridge the show - I love to watch the first two seasons using only 10-15 episodes to set the stage for the final three seasons.

Any recommendations?

I just finished rewatching the show and Wesley’s death was still hard to watch.

Wesley felt Fred die when Illyria took her body and the pain he felt since was just so well portrayed, raw.

Ahhh and then when Illyria lied for Wesley in his final moments, such an interesting character change for her.

She gave him what he gave Fred. She stayed with him until the end. It was beautiful.

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Guise will be Guise

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Smile Time

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I haven’t heard or seen anybody talk about how talented of an artist angel is, in his spinoff when he draws it’s done so well, in season 4 when a monster comes out of the ground that conner was born on it beats him and Cordelia with ease then when angel gunn and Wesley try to fight it it nearly decapitates angel with his own stake and throws him off a building anyways in episode 9 he is in his room drawing it and it is perfect the little details are perfectly done that’s only one of a few times angel has shown his artistic talent and I feel like its gone completely under the radar.

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I might be the last fan on the planet to make this connection. It’s probably more accurate to say that they named him Lorne after deciding The Host would have green skin. Wonder who thought of that one and how hard they laughed at their own joke when they did.

I think it would have been great if in season 3 these two became close friends/BFFs. It would have fitted their separate arcs (Cordelia outgrowing her mean girl phase and Fred getting back to human life on Earth after years in Pylea) and would've just been really nice to see. Not to mention the show kind of lacked female friendships in my opinion.