I spent my workday thinking about an AU of Angel season 3 where Spike and Drusilla are somehow present for Connor's birth and the Whirlwind is reunited under really, really strange circumstances.

• Realistically, there's a chance that Spike would want to grab Dru and get the hell out of dodge as soon as he realized how weird the situation is. Angel and Darla are having a tearful soul-baring heart-to-heart and Spike's ready to burn rubber getting out of L.A.
• Even without the Nyazian prophecies Dru would sense something is up and insist on being there to welcome the new member of their "family." In a race against time any seer is welcome, but Dru's nearly as hard to understand as the Scrolls, and no one's first choice for a birth attendant.
• She probably foresees Darla's death and becomes very attached/clingy toward her, which unsettles both Angel and Darla.
• Darla and Angel are still the leaders of the Whirlwind, but suffice to say the dynamic is very different now that they have souls. Darla's breakdown would be especially shocking to Spike, who's only ever known her to be pragmatic, cunning, and self-serving, and unlike Angel he hasn't witnessed the effects of ensouling up close. Depending on what direction his character development has gone in he may choose to protect his "family," at least given the choice between them and vampire cultists, Wolfram & Hart, and a vengeful vampire hunter.
  • Holtz may or may not have any idea who Drusilla and Spike are, and they may or may not faze him.
• Angel's worried about Holtz, worried about Wolfram & Hart, and now worried about his unpredictable, soulless progeny arriving for his son's birth. He needs all the help he can get, but neither he nor the rest of Angel Investigations trust Spike or Dru as far as they can throw them.
• Darla's wracked with soul-induced remorse and attempts to apologize to Drusilla (and to some extent Spike) several times for her fate, but it's never quite clear if Dru understands. By the end though, Drusilla's told Darla enough of her own fate for Darla to understand how she will make amends.
• The jury's still out if Spike and Dru are there for the birth/death itself and if they stick around after, and what might happen if they do.

In 5x12, if Angel and Spike had fought again, would Angel have won this time?

(Rq before any answers, I just finished season 4 pls do not spoil beyond that) So in the episode where Willow comes to give Angelus his soul back, some demon appears behind them while she’s doing the count, and she’s not even surprised or phased. Is this explained in later seasons? Did I miss something when I watched Buffy? I know this was after dark Willow but I don’t remember it happening at any time in the series whatsoever? Is it explained in the fifth season or am I just missing something?

I’m enjoying it so much. Currently on the episode with Wesley’s dad.

Season 5 is my least favourite by quite a difference. I remember it mostly being filler and quite underwhelming.

But so far I’m really loving it. I think it’s due to me not remembering too much from this season excluding Fred/ Illyria, spike fighting Angel for the prophecy, Wesley killing his “dad” and the luchadore and the final two episodes.

So I remember a bit but not too much. So I’m really excited to watch through.

Also eve was such a great addition to this season.

Oh and I remember Lindsay and Cordi finally return!

When Caleb and The First killed the Watchers council - how did Wesley's father survive? Did he have the day off was he retired?

People often point to "if nothing we do matters" and "fight the good fight", but a small piece of dialogue from 5x17 Underneath really resonates with me on rewatch(SPOILER marked for S5 if you care):

!ANGEL:!<
!Listen, Gunn... I know you feel bad about your part in what happened to Fred. And you should........... For the rest of your life, it should wake you up in the middle of the night. And it will...because you're a good man. You signed a piece of paper, that's all.!<

!GUNN:!<

!But I knew. Not about Fred, but... when I signed, I knew there would be consequences.!<

!ANGEL:!<
!You know, the thing about atonement is, you never run out of chances... but you gotta take 'em. You can't hide in some hospital room and pretend it's all gonna go away... 'cause it never will. !<

This is such a small, but very resonant exchange, because there have been times in my life where I screw up royally, and I end up retreating my own corner feeling sorry for myself due to the overwhelming guilt, shame and embarrassment. But then this quote reminds me that while it's good and healthy to feel remorse and even shame, that alone won't help anybody else or even yourself. You have to actively seek out your path to redemption with your own choices, which could summarily be Angel the Series in a nutshell.

Are there any speeches/dialogue you guys can think of besides the first 2 i mentioned at the top paragraph, because Angel and its big sister Buffy are chockfull of 100s, if not 1000s of these kinds of emotionally resonant exchanges?

The Cordelia with Connor thing is gross no matter what. But it just hit me that it probably looks even worse than intended bc of the actors’ actual age difference and/or the ages that they look.

By season 4, Cordy and Connor are supposed to be 22 and 17. (for me, that’s still an unacceptable age difference but…) Imagine if Charisma looked like she could pass for 22, the way that I believe Vincent looks like he could be 17-19.

It still would’ve been extremely wrong, in context, but I think it would’ve felt better if I didn’t always forget that Cordelia is supposed to be 22 yrs old. Instead it looks a 17 yr old being taken advantage of by someone 13+ yrs older than him.

Note (that I think should be obvious): None of this is Charisma Carpenter’s fault. I am not saying that a 34 yr old woman is in any way ugly bc she looks her age. Just noticing an appearance-related detail that I think could’ve changed how I feel about those episodes.

Just saw the scene where Angel and Cordelia are in the ballet dancer’s dressing room and “acting out” the romance between two of the entities. I’m dying over when Angel says “it’s kind of hard” and Cordy says “I kind of noticed” while pressed against him 😂😂😂

I'm getting my partner to watch angel, previously he'd only ever watched buffy but really enjoyed it. He said this first season was good, but I can tell it hasn't quite clicked for him yet. So I'll be interested to see when the show finally does hook him. For me it was the scene after angel fires the gang in season 2 and we see them singing 'We are the champions together.' It was the moment I realised how much chemistry Cordelia, Wesley and Gunn had. And how much I wanted Angel and the 3 of them back together again. The dymanic between them all was perfect. So I was wondering when Angel finally clicked for you guys? When you knew you were hooked?

David Boreanaz can actually sing! If you listen to him when Angel and Connor are singing “Oh Jasmine” in “Sacrifice”, he actually sings really well! So much for all those scenes in the show where we hear Angel sing and he’s so bad the others cringe. 😉

In my opinion:

David Boreanaz: Season 3. I hesitated between Season 2 and Season 3, but ultimately Season 3 won out. This is when I think David got most comfortable with the character and both he and the writers had figured out how to play to his strengths, both in comedy and as Angelus, without deviating too much from Angel. Best episodes: Heartthrob, That Vision Thing, Offspring, Lullaby, Dad, Couplet, Forgiving.

Charisma Carpenter: Season 1. She was so full of energy this season, and honestly carried the mood of the show when it was sometimes struggling. The writing was also giving her a lot of new things to do, new aspects of Cordy's character to explore, and she nailed all of it. Best episodes: To Shanshu In L.A, Parting Gifts, Somnambulist, City Of, Rm w/a Vu.

Alexis Denisof: Season 5. He's by far the hardest to pick for because he's so consistently great across the entire series and gets such good material. But his range and his sheer quality in Season 5 is incredible. Best episodes: Hole In The World (duh), Shells (duh), Lineage, Life Of The Party, Not Fade Away.

J. August Richards: Season 2. Gunn was probably at his most complex in Season 2 and J. August Richards' performance feels so engaged here, whether he's doing drama, comedy or action. Best episodes: First Impressions, Belonging, There's No Place Like Pltrz Glrb (cringey social uprising speech aside, that wasn't his fault), The Thin Dead Line.

Amy Acker: Season 5. No questions asked. She's brilliant overall but Joss literally wrote Illyria to give her the chance to shine and boy did she. Best acting anyone does in the whole show. Best episodes: The Girl In Question, Hole In The World, Shells, Time Bomb, Not Fade Away.

Andy Hallett: Season 2. Andy didn't get a whole lot of dramatic material across the seasons, but he didn't even need it. He made the show better literally the second he showed up and his vivaciousness (vivacity?) shone in Lorne's peak Caritas days. Best episodes: Judgement, Happy Anniversary, Over The Rainbow, Through The Looking Glass, There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb.

Stephanie Romanov: Season 3. I know Season 4 might be a more popular pick because she has a lot more to do, but Lilah was diabolical in Season 3 and Stephanie Romanov ate that shit up. Best episodes: That Vision Thing, Billy, Sleep Tight, Tomorrow.

Christian Kane: Season 2. It was close between Season 2 and Season 1, but again, this is a case of the writing supporting a great performance. He was given more to do and really revelled in it. Best episodes: Darla, Redefinition, Epiphany and Dead End.

Honourable mentions: Julie Benz and Juliet Landau's best performances as Darla and Dru are both on Angel, and Julie Benz turns in one of the best performances in the entire Buffyverse in just a handful of episodes across Season 2-3.

I'm on S4 Ep17, haven't watched the Angel series since I was a kid. So what happened with Cordelia? She got sent to be a higher being and then Jasmine took over her body when she was there? I thought I had understood but then Skip talks about the choices they've all made that led up to it so now im confused 😕

I finished watching Angel about a week ago, and it ended on a cliffhanger just like Buffy the Vampire Slayer did. I wonder why they didn’t end it fully like they did Smallville, Supernatural, Supergirl, The Flash, etc. I prefer shows to have an actual ending.

I always think that if been Cordelia still alive in Angel season 5. Like Cordelia to be new Head of Wolfram&Hart's Special Projects while Angel take over Wolfram&Hart. Angel and Cordelia are only ones who secertly still remember Connor when Angel made ultimate sacrifice deal with Wolfram&Hart for Connor and Cordelia to save them by give Connor a new wonderful good normal life with his adopted parents Laurence Reilly and Colleen Reilly and recover Cordelia from her coma. Cordelia was very thrilled when she see her surrogate son Connor with his adopted parents Laurence Reilly and Colleen Reilly. Angel and Cordelia shocked Connor bonds with his favorite surrogate Uncle Spike. I know Spike and Connor's relationship as Uncle and Nephew.

Connor: "You gotta do what you can to protect your family. I learned that from my father. And my mother too."

Angel and Cordelia shocked at Connor's cryptic words.

So I absolutely love Cordelia and I really hate “cordelia” but Charisma’s acting makes me love Cordelia and HATE “cordelia”

“Cordelia” is just the worst. The whole manipulation of Connor. Charisma played this role so well. She played it so well I just can’t hate the character.

I feel a lot of the hate happens because people love Cordelia but season 4 “Cordi” is still a very good character. It’s just not the one people have grown to love.

The only thing that makes me dislike the character is that I’m aware it wasn’t made out of good writing but a punishment for Charisma. That does put a dark cloud over the whole season.

i'm driving myself crazy, but i can't find this fanfic. i was sure it was on ao3 but, i can't find it.

it's spike/angel. angel gets hit with something & is dying. he needs the blood of a childe he sired to he heal him. no one can find dru, but angel also sired spike. he won't tell anyone (even spike) bc he thinks spike hates him. angel would rather die than have spike hate him more.

there is a happy ending, but beyond that. idk

I noticed both Angel and Buffy are available on Disney+. Unfortunately, Buffy is still in the same atrocious state as it was when the remaster first came out. However, Angel seems to be running at a pretty decent quality and is available in 16:9. So far I've only noticed one goof, which was Angel being visible in a mirror as part of a shot that was obviously meant for 4:3. The color grading seems fine, and there's a lot of grain in the footage. So far I also haven't noticed any weird cropping and the CGI seems the same as back then.

Is this just a case of them releasing the so-called "European DVD set" episodes that had to be converted to 16:9 by then? Or did they actually put some effort into a remaster? It looks good, but it's not 1080p good.

Both of these women have a relationship with Angel where they know a different side of Angel that Buffy could never understand but who knew him the best of his closest friends? Also when it comes to Angelus; Cordelia is ready to kill him if Angelus returns, Faith will always try to bring him back no matter what because Angel never gave up on her.

Faith

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Cordelia

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Rewatching Amends and a thought just struck me.

The first claims it brought Angel back to lose his soul in Buffy and restore Angelus, but when he chooses to die over doing so, the first is unphased, saying "it'll do" before a freak snowstorm undercuts the suicide attempt.

In Angel, we find out he's a champion of the powers that be, and his fate is caught in a cosmic tug of war between good and evil. So is it possible that the Powers were the ones to bring him back in the first place, and the first simply saw the opportunity to undermine the effort? it would explain why Angel's death seems more important to it than Angelus' rebirth or even Buffy's death.

i've always imagined the powers responsible for the snow, but i've never really considered that Buffy's "some big evil takes credit for bringing you back and you just buy it?" line could actually be right on the money and actually makes a lot more sense in a lot of ways.

Why the crunching sound when vampires bite human?

I'm going to go ahead and take the cheap shot: Knox.

I would beat the snot out of that snivelling brat if I had the chance.

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I can’t recall if this was brought up. I’m guessing Jasmine worked with the mojo and made Angel forget?

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