So, later in the series we learn that Elaida has plans to introduce a fourth Oath, of obedience to the Amyrlin (aka her). IIRC, this is presented as Evil (TM) and Egwene reveals it as though it's a reason why the Tower Aes Sedai should support her over Elaida.

But like...didn't Egwene do the exact same thing by making some of the Salidar Aes Sedai swear fealty to her?? Especially considering that some of them only swore to her after she blackmailed them about Lan. Seems pretty hypocritical on Egwene's part, but was that intentional? Or am I missing something?

Son this just popped up on my FB memories... was ToM really published 14 years ago? And yes, 100% I read it in 12 hours, pretty sure for aMoL the following year I took the day off work and smashed it out too!!! Time to start re read number...15(?)

I just finished the last book. After Rand sealed the prison in shayol ghul, he carries moridin out of it. Then a female aiel with grey hair and a unknown voice appeared an talk to rand.

Who was that? I have no clue

It's implied that the first age is the irl modern age and that the second age started with the discovery of the power. I had a thought that if wolves were normal wolves in the first age then some point probably around the time the power was discovered wolves might have all spontaneously gained glowing yellow eyes, almost human level intelligence, and telepathic communication.

It's actually kinda crazy that third age wolves ability to share Information with each over hundreds of miles isnt mentioned to be well known or documented knowledge cause that seems like something someone would eventually notice.

Ok so it's a weird one. TW for sexual assault.

RJ basically states outright that myrddraal sexually assault/rape women.

Which. makes me wonder. Does that mean myrddraal have dicks? and are they pale and eyeless too? can they get people pregnant? what would half-myrddraal half-human spawn look like? do they get awkward boners?

much to consider.

Alt text: Li Shang from Mulan with a brown line drawn across his brow

I had heard of the WoT book series as an avid sci-fi and fantasy reader. I wasn’t interested when I first heard about it because it seemed like too much of an investment to get into. The community is particularly proud of that fact and comes off as pretty smug and insular.

I watched the show without having read the books and was mildly impressed. I particularly liked the world-building and Moiraine as portrayed by Rosamund Pike.

I also really enjoyed The Expanse and Game of Thrones without having read the books. After finishing those two series, I had no desire to read the books, though I am sure the books are FAR better.

However, after watching two seasons of WoT, I was inspired to read the series. I am now on Lord of Chaos and can’t put it down. Watching the series again, it is infuriating that the writers, directors, and producers DARE think that they can re-write the masterpiece that RJ wrote into their own clunky social commentary.

I was reminded of the rich culture of The Shire when showed the rich, close knit, but somewhat backward nature of the Two Rivers. The show does a good job of portraying this. I was immediately drawn to the power, splendor, and mystery of Moiraine and Lan showing this whole new world to the hayseeds like Obi-Wan did with Luke. The show does this as well.

I guess the reason I am writing this is that I have been thinking about WoT non-stop for the past few months and it is all because of the horribly inadequate show that Amazon Prime put out. It was enough to grab my attention, yet left me wanting more. Wanting more, I decided to take the plunge into the books and could not be more happy that I did.

The best part of the show is also the best part of the books in my opinion. Not only are the intricacies of the Two Rivers shown, but the intricacies of so many other groups and cultures clashing with real human emotions coming from sheltered 20 year old home schooled kids thrust into the big, ugly wide world. It is all chaos and I have never read anything like it.

The hacks at Amazon Prime clearly think that they can re-write a masterpiece into their own vision and make a plot thought out by RJ over decades into some Hollywood romp (George RR Martin and Sanderson have both commented on this, but not on this specific series). The TV writers meddling with major plot points has made the TV show much worse than it could have been if they had simply gone with what was already written, but I am SO glad that they did that. If they hadn’t, maybe I would not have got into the books. However, if the world-building was not done as well, maybe I would not have been willing to jump into that pond in the Waterwood.

I would love to discuss some early series/ books bits and compare to the show as it is something that seems vital to the greater sci-fi/ fantasy genre as a whole right now.

PS. Rosamund Pike’s portrayal of Moiraine is spot on right? There are other characters that miss the mark, but dang…

This is a bit of a rant sorry. currently at chapter 12 and very bored with this book. I feel like i’m missing something because this plot about Elayne attempting to secure the throne feels like it should be interesting but honestly it’s kind of dragging for me. Kind of the same feelings for me with the Perrin plot. I know i’ve still got half of the book left so i hope we move on to the Egwene and yeh siege of Tar Valon soon cause i’ve been waiting for that payoff for lik a whole book. I’ve already made my peace that Rand isn’t really in this book, still i think it’s a little insane that we have yet to feel the weight and tangible result of his actions at the end of the last book. Please tell me i’m missing something here

We see the display of One Power and the destruction of an army of shadowspawns single handedly by Rand. We assume that it is an example of what an AoL aes sedai with an angreal can do to an army. But, we don't see that kind of destruction by anyone else from AoL. No Forsaken has brought that level of destruction (not even with full circle and not even in Merillor). Why's that? Is that something only LTT would have done in AoL? We see one of the Asha'man mention there are too many weaves for him to track. So, can we assume that only LTT would have been able to bring that level of destruction in AoL? Can anyone please clarify why none of the Forsaken make any weaves similar to what Rand did in Battle of Maradon? Is it simply because they couldn't i.e. they don't have the skill nor the power to do that. Thanks.

Robert Jordan and Wheel of Time are my favorite Fantasy author/series bar none. I have read/listened through them many times. I have collected a well preserved set of 1st printings, and have several RJ signatures. I spent a fair amount of money buying a half dozen leather bound limited editions, which I’ve posted a picture of here not long ago.

But I have never read New Spring. I haven’t listened to it. At first it just came out in between books and I wanted to finish the series before I dove into any prequels. It also happened to come out right when I joined the Army and I spent the next several years mostly in Baghdad not reading anything.

When I got back I finished the series and had kind of forgotten about New Spring. I bought a first printing (very easy to find) a couple of years ago with the intent on reading it, but I was in the middle of Stormlight Archive and didn’t get to it.

Now I’m 30 years removed from the first time I read Robert Jordan’s words and I have this one, untouched piece of that world that I’ve never visited. It’s almost become a thing now-I know it only has some of the characters, and isn’t considered the best book, but knowing I have one more time of taking in RJ’s writing fresh is kind of a nice feeling.

Anyway, this is a somewhat pointless ramble but I was thinking about it today and thought I’d share. I realize I could have a fatal car crash tomorrow and never read it, but I can’t help thinking at some point the time will be right and I’ll take that last trip with RJ, which is a comforting thought.

I've come to appreciate it more. I know pastor may not like this but the esthetic reminds me of Lord of the Rings.

Let me explain

I'm not saying it looks like LotR. I mean that I remember watching LotR in the theaters as a kid and being awestruck. Feeling like I was in a different world. People said that was New Zealand but the set design, costumes and everything did not look like earth, other than humans being there.

Back to WoT, I feel the same for this. Everything is foreign (not in the manner that Indian culture is foreign to a brit or American culture is foreign to a Korean) but like everything seems from a different planet. The Seanchan armor makes no sense, in a good way. It's not a re-skin of ancient Asian armor loke I picture on the books.

Also the diversity. Look, I hate forced diversity for the sake of it. And some things they changed I disliked BUUUT I'm reminded that this isn't a world once conquered by the primarily white British. This is a world that had different ethnic backgrounds, conquered once by Hawkwing who didn't move white people everywhere, he allowed governors to control their respective kingdoms. As such, people are going to look dramatically different from one neighbor to the other.

The set design is even better. I felt like this was countries designed without tminfluence fron the Greeks or ancient Egyptians and as such, were so strange in their architecture that it was almost jarring. Then you have clothes like Moiraines poofy dress that I first thought was dorky but then get immersed in this FANTASY world of cultures that are literally based on irl ones, but likewise are not as it's a different world lore-wise.

May just be stoner thoughts from a non-stoner but my 100th rewatch just made me appreciate the world more.

NOW HURRY UO AND RELEASE SEASON 3 DAMMNIT!!

Rand pays a visit to the Amyrlin Seat. Watercolour and ink by me

I'm about to finish Crossroads of Twilight. When should I read New Spring, in publication order or after I finish the main series?

Please, no spoilers! I’m a first-time reader on book 8.

I read somewhere that Sanderson said he wouldn’t try to imitate Jordan, and I have to confess, I’m a little nervous. I know I’m 3.5 books away, but I’m really loving Jordan’s writing style, and I can already feel the post-mortem anxiety kicking in!!!

I’m not a huge fan of Sanderson’s writing style (which is why I’m a bit worried). I often find his work very "declarative" and lacking in subtext, to the point where it feels like he’s hand-holding the reader. This is something Jordan definitely does NOT do, even if he can go overboard with those lengthy recaps.

Jordan’s subtext is a big part of what I am currently loving about his writing as a first-time reader, and the character work in WoT is what I enjoy most in how nuanced and layered it feels; always trusting the readers to look between the lines etc

I’m not trying to create a Sanderson hate post; I respect people who are fans of his, but for both Sanderson fans and critics alike - does Sanderson do a good job of capturing Jordan’s style? Is the transition seamless enough that you can tell it’s not Jordan, but it’s still close?

Love this series. The slog was rough, but I’m on on tower of midnight now and everything since knife of dreams has just been… chefs kiss.

There is one thing that irks me though and has irked me basically the entire series. The sharing of information between those on the side of the light, particularly since the power of travel has been a thing but even still before, is so incredibly bad.

Like why would Egwene not send trusted (and newly reconfirmed) good Aes Sedai to virtually every major capital to confirm the tower was reunited. Elayne still thinks Elaida is in control.

That is just one minor example but like, the last battle is literally directly around the corner. If you can instantly travel and immediately travel back, why are we not using this tool to MUCH greater effectiveness. Why would we not have more travel capable people in literally every important persons camp. Surely that would be the highest and best use of 1 or 2 of the aes sedai or ashamon. Like Egwene and Nynanaeve, and Elayne and so many other key characters are so aggressively unconnected information wise and could benefit so drastically from literally instant teleportation to share key information.

Absolutely love the series overall, but I’m curious to know if other people thought this.

Does he think he’s been through the glass columns and genuinely believe he’s the Cara’carn?

It’s a theory I never really considered, but we don’t get told whether Asmodeus tampered with his brain to make him believe he really is the Cara’carn or they just had some kind of deal and he gave him the tattoos.

If it’s the latter then how did a non Darkfriend just casually allow a suspicious male channeler to do something to him and why did he not out Asmodeus later for being attached to Rand?

We know from Masema that the Forsaken are able and willing to induce visionary experiences in people they’re manipulating. Is it a huge reach to assume this happened with Couladin?

Questions. All the questions. If anyone knows of any dialogue from Asmodeus to Rand that disproves this please let me know.

How do you think each society would incorporate men who can dance with jack of the shadow? or men who know the lyrics to the lost song?

serious bit: How do you think each society would incorporate men who can channel?

sea folk: Ok they seem to have the most admin and the most detailed organizational tree, so I think they will quickly be organized into a certain box with certain expectations. Maybe they'd either be categorized as wind finders and be assigned a wave mistress, or they could serve the non-channeling male counter parts (sword masters). I'd have liked to know more about how sea folk men operate though. I think they would thrive the quickest amongst the sea folk.

aiel: I think the wise ones have a hard time adjusting as they work closely with men (unlike the aes sedai), but also guard their secrets and matters of the one power very closely from men (exactly like the aes sedai). I would assume male channelers would not fight each other either as it would be a disaster with blood fueds. While maintaining neutral status amongst aiel, they most likely would form a special unit within the aiel police and help keep randland safe (hopefully doing more than the glorified uber drivers the ashaman were for so much of the series).

seanchan: Assuming matt doesn't immediately abolish slavery and legalize gambling, I'd guess that the seanchan would begin experimenting with the domination band in secret. Fork root would provide them with ample male marath damane and they would probably keep them a secret as the seanchan would not receive male channelers warmly. They would probably only use it with two suldam + one male damane given the surplus of suldam. It would have been awesome to see the domination band slowly give control to the the man though if the spin off series was ever written.

PS: can women see saidan when linked through a domination band? They're not actively pulling from it themselves, but I would assume they grow to see it woven the way they can with saidar.

I’m half way through crown of swords and I know maybe I’ll find out if I keep reading but I’m so so confused and it’s distracting - what happened to Asmodean? I thought he came back with egwene and Matt?

Right there, on page 394 of the Orbit-published The Path of Daggers. End of second paragraph.

I thought it fun. This is the first time I've seen a misspelling/misprint in any well-known books I've read.

So I'm loving Egwene's story far more this read through. She's an absolute badass and honestly I get chills with how she navigates everything.

Anyways, it's my second read through, so I have a bit more flexibility with what I choose to read or when (audiobook x2 speed for Perrin and Elayne and a few others), and I'm looking to just read Egwene's entire story for this book all at once, because I know where it ends up. Then I'll go back and read everyone else's.

Which chapters that aren't her POV might be necessary to also read? The last book there were Romana, Eliada and other chapters that had to be read to understand the Tower and Egwene's story. Just want to make sure I don't miss anything vital.

Is that Egwene dies. Worse, Egwene dies while Rand gets to live. I had my issues with Egwene as a character but the fact that she is the only one of the EF5 that doesn’t get to walk away from the FB while Rand, who has been prophesied to die since the beginning of the series, gets to ride his horse into the sunset smugly thinking about which of his three wives will come find him later.

I just don’t get it. It feels unnecessary. All the other principal characters end the series married and happy and she loses her husband and her life. From the moment she enters the White Tower she is deployed like a pawn to do ridiculously dangerous things like seek out the Black Ajah as an accepted, then she spends time with the Aiel before being ripped from them by the rebels who plan to have her act a child Amyrlin pawn, then she actually takes control of her own fate only to be kidnapped and abused by the Aes Sedai of the Tower, then becomes Amyrlin officially, then is immediately thrown into the Last Battle. And on top of that she’s forced to fight right next to the people who enslaved and tortured her, trauma from which she never seems to fully recover. If anyone deserved a happy ending I think it should’ve been her if only because she feels like she’s easily third in line for getting whacked by the Pattern (after Rand, obviously, and Perrin, whose entire family has been slaughtered).

And it’s right after she discovers the weave to counter balefire. It feels like such a waste. And no one even seems particularly sad about it in the end. Everyone is busy grieving Rand, who isn’t even dead and seems to be able to manipulate the pattern itself somehow? It really soured the end for me.

My assumption is that the cuendillar would either get forced out of one side or (I think more likely) that the gateway simply wouldn't be able to fully close, but how would that affect the one who wove the gateway? Would it be kind of similar to tying off the weave?

Also, if the cuendillar just holds the gateway open, could you then turn a doorframe or something, and then just have a permanent gateway between two places?

If it just forces the cuendillar object out, what if you made something (while the gateway was open) that passed through the gateway, but was too large on either end to fit through the opening, then turned that into cuendillar, so it was all of a single piece? For that matter, what about something like an interlocking set of cuendillar pieces?

Just finished a relisten and just had a few thoughts on Gawyn (Among other things).

Will say that this isn't meant to be a Gawyn hate post, there's already enough of those lol.

I feel like Gawyn was so close to a really good redemption arc but that just got thrown out the window when he ran off to fight Demandred.

He accepted that his hate for Rand stemmed from jealousy, realized he had to accept walking in Egwene's shadow if he wanted to be with her, and that he had picked the wrong side when he sided with Elaida.

It is just a shame, it seemed like all this character growth just went out the window. Honestly I would've liked to have seen him going down by defending Egwene.

Maybe he dies throwing himself in front of a killing weave from Taim or something, so we can still see the showdown between her and Taim, and she'd be even more enraged in the fight.

In TGH Rand does not dare touch saidin close to the damane, lest they know he channels, because this is what Verin tells him, i.e. that they will know.

Later in the books it is established that women can't feel men channeling, but men can feel women.

Was this something that changed for later books, did Verin not know correctly, or did she mislead him purposefully?

One of the key architects in creating the bore is still alive and that's a satisfactory conclusion to the series?

Could anyone tell me what chapter it is where all of the Aes Sedai become trapped by huge trollocs in the Dream World.

First read through, I’m on Crown of Swords right now, and I’m not sure if I misread this sentence or what, but 48% of the way into the book, Sevanna says it’s been two days since the battle at Dumai’s Wells.

I also distinctly remember a chapter about a red scarf that confused me so much and felt like a time loop earlier in the series, I think when Mat had the dagger still.

Is the timeline just not linear? Are the characters confused? Am I confused? What is happening.