"If life transcends death,

Then I will seek for you there,

If not, then there too"

This has become mine and my partner's favorite poem and it resonates deeply for both of us as such a statement of love and connectedness. It's friigin deep and I love it. How did they come up with such a perfect Haiku with such meaning!?

I’m fairly ok in my understanding of basic economics, but what does this mean? Seems like there is a lot to unpack here. Or is it just intentionally dense economic technobabble that doesn’t really have to mean anything to get the point across?

“If we don’t start building a separate exchange economy soon—and by soon I mean weeks or months ago—we may have to reimagine the whole project. We may not be able to get away from inner-planet-backed scrip at all, and then we can be as politically independent as we want, only it will still devolve back to financial constraints by the inner planets, which was what we were trying to get away from in the first place.”

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned on the sub before but I had a realization about our favorite mechanic and wanted to share it with y’all.

Amos’ name is Hebrew in origin and means “borne by god” but can also man “carried/endured”. Not only does this name describe Amos pretty well, but also his last name is “Burton” (similar to “Burden”).

Cibola Burn Discussion:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/1gjx08x/finished_book_4_cibola_burn/

Season 5 was my favorite season so I’ve been very excited to read this one And I’m happy to say it lives up to my expectations judging by how this book only took week to finish Although I think I preferred the show over it just by a little

1.	Holden

Wow Holden goes from spilling the beans about Monica which got her kidnapped to actually shutting the hell up was great character arc for him His friendship with Fred was also great to see after how they left things in Caliban’s War and with the loss of Sam and Bull it made for some nice conversations between them. I’m very glad they didn’t kill Fred here but it helped establish Marco as a threat earlier on so it works both ways for me. Him and Naomi both thinking about how this is how she felt when he went onboard The Agatha King and Ring Station was really nice too

2.	Alex

I feel kinda bad about his Ex Wife situation but it’s not surprising how it went, But I can’t believe how close he came to finding out he has a kid. The fact that Bobbie almost revealed it without realizing was crazy since other than his ex only Chrisjen and Bobbie knows, although I’m surprised his extended family doesn’t know or if they do they’ve just decided not to spill. It’s funny how in one throwaway line that skimmed over Him and Bobbie talking that we got the nephew drug plot line that’d be HEAVILY expanded on in season 4. I totally understand why Nate was cut from the show cause other than being a punching bag for Chrisjen he did like nothing.

3.	Amos

I’m so happy that nearly every event and dialogue in Amos’s chapters were in the show, his story line is still one of my favorites. Especially with Chrisjen’s line: “Don’t call me Chrissy like I’m your favorite stripper!” Even with that line being swapped from earlier to later this storyline might be the single most book to screen adaptation I’ve ever seen!

4.	Naomi

I’m surprised she never told Jim that she had a kid till the end of this book Especially with how much longer they’ve been together in the books. And man I forgot how much Marco SUCKS! Naomi calling his bullshit in her head and at the end of the book had me pissed! I can’t believe I forgot how fake he is, Can’t wait for him to go out. Cyn also felt way more racist than in the show, I was very disappointed in him here. I’m also surprised how little she really saw Marco and Filip at all. I’m hoping that Filip is a POV character next book so I get can hate Marco more lol. Also her free jump without a suit was just as good as the show portrayed! Also hoping she continues being a POV character next book too.

5.	Drummer

5 books in and she finally showed up! If only briefly lol, can’t wait for more!

6.	Final Thoughts 

Can’t wait to rewatch this season soon but I’ve already started Babylons Ashes and to catch up sooner than I thought is going to be crazy! My only complaint is still the lack of Chrisjen lol I NEED MORE!!!

Anyways I’ll catch you guys on the flip ya Inyalowda’s!

Yam Seng! 🥃

Don't get me wrong, I still love the books, and even this one was mostly a fun read. But the Sol vs Tempest storyline is just... frustrating. Or not, feel free to correct me or point out what I missed.

First of all, the battles. The first time we see Tempest fight, it shrugs off and deletes the greatest railguns in space. That's the close range, now what can it do on a battlefield AUs across? Never got an answer. Everything still happends at railgun range. Remember those missiles launched at Eros in Leviathan Wakes, guided projectiles capable of enforcing MAD across the system? Never used, and even ship-based torpedoes are fired only point blank. When ships started getting railgunned and Independence was shot appart, it felt like a bad joke. Maybe they'd be lost anyway, but to see them go like this? Most of them should have been AUs away, behind layers of defences, they didn't need everyone to get close. At the very least not the flying city.

It gets worse though, when I read at the end that Tempest has mobility issues and avoids accelerating at over 1/5 g, I actually had to stop and reflect. Last battle was 237 ships (said to include small boats) vs Tempest, a successfull nuke hit from battleship Governor king causes afforementioned damage, for the cost of 1/4, so ~60 ships, taken out of action.

And that lead to Drummer's surrender? I see that as an absolute win. Now's the time to send couple more nuclear volleys and finish it, possibly using those interplanetar missiles from Leviathan Wakes. Well, maybe I just have a skewed sence of scale, but loosing 60 vessels (again, including equivalent of coast guard), + maybe another 60 from the previous battles, on a solar system scale it seems acceptable. I'd expect their peacetime fleet to be at thousands to keep track of all those asteroids, habitats and colonized planets.

And I know I probably shouldn't get angry over one event in this incredibly huge story. But it's an important one and it still sometimes bothers me when they reference it in the following books, and I want to see what others think and why it doesn't seem to bother them.

EDIT: ok, you may have convinced me on the second part. After all of Sol lost so much firepower in previous books I just took it for granted they rebuilt it. But even if they were done after 30 years, battleships or MAD arsenals aren't the priority, who would that be against? What they need asap are frigates and police ships to guard their new impossibly large territory, battleships like Governor King can wait in their peaceful era.

After reading Tempest got damaged, I saw it as a proof it's a godlike, but not an immortal ship and it would probably die if only those cowards slammed it with 10× more nukes. But even if that damage was serious, there probably wasn't any 10× left.

The ranges are still weird though. The book itself admits they're short, but never explains why. It might see it as a good way to boost firepower, I see sending everyone this close as a needless risk.

Just started watching The Penguin on HBO, and they've got Shohreh Agdashloo (Avasarala) and Francois Chau (Jules Pierre Mao) appearing in consecutive early episodes. I'm only on Episode 3 but Shohreh's probably got a decent supporting role in the rest of the series.

Makes me wonder about the other cast members of The Expanse TV adaptation. Aside from Jared Harris in Foundation, I think this is the first time I've seen any of the main actors in another recent major production. Anyone else come across them in film or TV recently?

EDIT: To be clear with "recent major production" I meant after The Expanse run finished

I am honestly curious.

What did you think this series was about?

Because it seems obvious to me that there's a clear political message in the text and it feels overtly leftist.

I am genuinely wondering if I'm misreading it or if you are, and how we can read the same story and come to such vastly different perspectives on what we read.

Edit: I wasn't trying to start something. I just wanted to have a conversation. Thanks to everyone responding kindly and sharing their thoughts. I'm learning a lot in these comments. :)

I've been playing the hell out of this game and it's been giving me some nice Expanse vibes. Basically the same background as The Expanse - Humanity has thoroughly fucked Earth and had ventured out to conquer the solar system, enabled by a highly advanced method of transportation, the Railgate.

You are for all intents and purposes an indentured servant to an evil giga-corporation, and you're tasked with the incredibly dangerous job of Shipbreaking - breaking ships apart for scrap (inspiring by a real world, incredibly dangerous profession). You cut the ship apart, sort all the scrap, all while on EVA.

Very fun, very cathartic, I've got about 8 hours in it and I'm hooked.

I've been rereading (or rather, listening) to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Needed something fun and positive with recent events. And this phrase stuck out to me like I'd been hit in the head with a lemon wedge wrapped around a gold brick:

The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy says that if you hold a lungful of air you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about thirty seconds. However, it does go on to say that what with space being the mind-boggling size it is the chances of getting picked up by another ship within those thirty seconds are two to the power of two hundred and seventy-six thousand, seven hundred and nine to one against.

Douglas Adams was telling us about human survivability in hard vacuum long before sci fi films were lying to us about it.

The Expanse is in a rare category of book-TV adaptions in that both are top quality outright despite the amount of changes. Broadly, I feel the changes in the show enriched the source material a lot as they had the benefit of hindsight with the earlier novels.

My top three:

1. Klaes Ashford: TV series makes him a whole person and definitely one of the most dynamic, interesting characters.
2. Getting the Earth/Mars storyline started earlier: the tension of the cold war was felt earlier and the system disintegrating into war felt more organic as we could understand the rationale and motivations of characters like Avasarala and Errinwright earlier.
3. Roci crew not all getting along perfectly at the start: honestly the early tension and conflict between characters just made the relationships between them feel so much more earned.

Bonus points: Amos, Alex and Naomi get fleshed out a lot earlier as characters.

What about the rest of you, what did you think were the changes that really added something to the adaption?

I was just curious if anyone had a good sense of the timeline from the start of the Eros incident to when Eros started moving towards Earth. I guess I'm primarily thinking of the books, but if there's specific info from the show that's fine too. In my head I was thinking Eros was on lockdown for months before it took off, is that right? And how long would it have taken to get to Earth? I know it ends up accelerating faster than ships can reasonably follow, but people on Earth would have had minimum several days to see this coming right?

Basically, we knew pretty early on that Amos was a sociopath and a stone cold killer when needed, but he was also funny and kind in his own way, but in book 7 and 8 ( which I just finished, so maybe pls, no spoilers for the last book ), he's just straight up an asshole that has apparently no relation to anyone except Clarissa. Everytime he's on the page you are afraid that he's going to go off and kill or fight someone and I can't "trust" him anymore.

I am curious if anyone feels the same way and if there is a reason for it ( maybe the authors faced backlash because they treated him so nicely despite his actions or something like that ), because to me it feels really unnecessary to not have him crack a joke with one of the crew members or say on of his one liners.

Did I miss it in Season 1, Episode 1? Or is it like Penny’s maiden name in The Big Bang Theory & we never find out? (Sorry all - Spoilers up to the end of Season 4)

Hey friends

A while ago, I had made a post that spurred a lot of discussion around the TV show (I know this happens often)

At the time, I was finishing Abaddon's Gate. I watched most of the first season, disliked it, and wrote a post (that I will edit and link here later) about how I felt about the show.

Now that I've finished the series, and I'm on Cibola Burn in my reread, I would like to go back and actually finish the show. I know I dislike the first few episodes, but it's time I tackle the whole thing and really weigh it on it's own. You all love it so much, that I'm convinced I'm missing something, since I hold these books in extremely high regard. I also often feel FOMO over half the discussion that happens here since I haven't seen the show, plus I'm always down for new Expanse content to tackle.

I've been pretty active in here since I started the books, and even more now that I'm done. I know I'm in the outlier for loving the books as much as I do, but not of what I've seen of the show. I would love to report back with good news

I thought this would be another tacky sci-fi show… omg it’s incredible along the same flavor as “for all mankind”. I’m only on ep 7 and everything is is interesting and mysterious. I don’t know what’s going to happen next and EVERYONE has an interesting story. I’m ultra curious where the Mormon plot is going. It caught me off guard when a missionary talked to the detective about comedy night haha. Also I completely forgot about the big blue thing at the very beginning and I just got caught up in space politics. This is amazing and I have 6 whole seasons 🥲 don’t spoil ANYTHING pls

I've been around this sub for a bit, but first post! I started out by watching the television series, and after season 5 I decided to read books 1-6 before watching the final season. Over the last several months I've worked through the first 8 in audio books, just finishing the epilogue a few minutes ago. Over the last several chapters II decided that I needed to finish out the series the old fashioned way. Book 9 (and Memories Legion) arrives in hard cover in ten days. I've always struggled with attention when reading... But hoping my excitement (possibly addiction ¯_(ツ)_/¯ )for this series can overcome my ADD. If it works..I may even have to start over with the full series in print... Damn this is a great story.

Was there a criminal underworld on Laconia?

In The Expanse, one societal aspect that is emphasized on Earth, Mars, The Belt, and the Ring Planets (after they have been settled long enough) is the presence of a criminal underworld. However, Laconia is the one exception to this rule, as is reinforced in the Auberon novella.

My question is: was there really no criminal underworld on Laconia, even after its conquest of Sol/Ring Gates and the large influx of people to the center of the new empire? Criminal networks have always developed regardless of government types, and especially in totalitarian societies (see the many examples of black markets in 20th century dictatorships).

You could say the original Laconians (pre-invasion of Sol) were military and scared scientists (who were coerced to go along with Duarte until they learned to live with the idea of Laconia), but military societies have their criminal classes too. While Laconian citizens were raised/brainwashed to see themselves as held to high standards, they certainly aren’t the first citizens of a dictatorship to have this happen to them.

Maybe you can say that the new Laconian Governor for Auberon is a good insight into this issue: he views large scale criminal enterprises as something foreign to Laconia, so perhaps this is the case. However, he wouldn’t be the first resident of a dictatorship (in The Expanse, Captain Singh, or real life) who isn’t fully aware of all aspects of his society.

So do we think that at some point Laconia developed its own criminal network, with a top boss akin to Erich on Auberon?

It's been a while since they posted an episode. Has anyone heard anything? I'd hate for them to stop now.

Gonna show my geek here but Zuko’s redemption arc in ATLA is even deeper, but Gunny is my fav so I just absolutely love comparing the two.

Is anyone else super annoyed about the two throw away lines about Alex's first kid and then there is absolutely no follow up? Why keep bringing it up then giving zero closure.

Something I was ruminating on this morning was how similar the characters of Amos and Filip are. They were both raised in cultures that made them into murderers, walking away as teens and finding work as engineers under new identities. Both find themselves later identifying those who they see as having strong moral compasses (Amos with Naomi, Holden and Prax, Filip with Nami), and seek to protect them from those they recognize as predators. The main difference being that Amos doesn't really have fear after his childhood traumas, while Filip still does.

Makes me wish we'd somehow gotten a scene with the two of them together.

I'm reading Tiamant's wraith right now, in chapter 41, they mention the ring gate doesn't orbit the systems star, it just sits there stationary. so, "Alex parked the roci close to it with the epstein drive on a gentle burn to balance the pull of the sun."

How the fuck does that work? I understand orbital mechanics a bit. ( in that i've played KSP )
Is it possible to stay relatively stationary that far out from a star? wouldn't they be moving quite fast either away from the ring in a circular orbit or "falling" back to the star in an elliptical orbit?

If the burn towards the ring was a long elliptical, and they burned retrograde against that elliptical orbit until it became circular orbit in opposite direction, Would that make it relatively stationary?

EDIT: Thanks for all the explanations. Some of them make sense to me. To clarify, i wasn't gonna question how the ring stays put. The ring is the ring, it does whatever it wants. I was questioning if it would be possible for the roci to 'park' next to an object that's stationary relative to a star.

Now i need an epstein drive mod for KSP.

EDIT2:
So i tired staying in a stationary point above kerbin in KSP. I didn't really stay still but i see now how it works, and how alex would have been able to 'park' the roci.
https://imgur.com/a/dirLZxu

There can be talk about book 1 but no spoilers for the rest of the series please.

Okay I just finished Leviathan Wakes (book 1 in the series) and I’m confused by the end? Is Fred bad? What was his last couple of lines all about? I think a lot of what was said in this book went over my head but I enjoyed it overall just a bit confused.

I’m on the last episode of season 1 and had to pause and post this because I do NOT understand how or why Naomi would just say “Holden wouldn’t do that to us” when Alex mentions that Holden and/or Miller could be sick.

It’s not as if he would be doing it on purpose. Alex even says “he might not know” and this is her reply???

The whole show has emphasized how smart she is. Why in the hell would she take a risk like that? Especially after being rightfully upset about that poor kid getting dragged back into that…tomb. This just felt like such an unnecessary way to show that she’s falling for him or something. Ridiculous and took me out of the show. That’s the first time I’ve felt that way because other than that it’s been such a good show but…that was just lazy and I had to vent about it😮‍💨

I haven’t finished the episode yet so maybe I’m in for a wild surprise that’ll help make sense of her weird and reckless behavior here…

Something I just picked up on was that, in the show, Clarissa inadvertently reinforces in Amos that he is a monster. Early in the series Amos mentions that he hasn't felt fear since he was five years old, and when they're on the road after the prison, Peaches shares with Amos that she believes that she's not a monster because she feels fear and afraid all the time.

Are there any spoilers for subsequent books in season 1? Thanks?

so I’ve been reading through the series and am just a few chapters into book 8, and Elvi chapter covering the Laconian plan to study the disappearing ships and the ring gates. They’re saying here that energy levels through the gates reaches a certain point and then a ship would typically vanish, but has this been covered before?

I feel like it’s been hinted at in the previous book but not fully fleshed out 🤷🏻‍♂️

was this explained in a novella? I haven’t been reading those as my library doesn’t have them available for kindle. thanks, please no spoilers past chapter 10 of book 8.