/r/Sumer
A place for those looking to practice the ancient religions of Mesopotamia.
Welcome to /r/Sumer, a subreddit dedicated to the academic reconstruction and spiritual revival of ancient Mesopotamia's many polytheistic religious traditions.
Mesopotamia—from the ancient Greek root-words μέσος (meso: middle) and ποταμός (potamos: river) meaning: Land Between the Two Rivers—refers to the historical region of the Tigris-Euphrates river-valley system.
In the modern day, this region occupies nearly all of Iraq and Kuwait, with additional sites located in eastern Syria, southern Turkey, and western Iran.
For the purposes of this subreddit, discussion is limited to the religious traditions that flourished in Mesopotamia c. 4500-500 BCE; namely, Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian & Babylonian polytheism.
Please check out our Wiki for a growing collection of essays on basic topics related to Mesopotamian history, language, and religion.
Rules and Codes of Conduct:
Reddit's content policy and the rules of rediquette apply to all discussions on this board.
/r/Sumer is actively moderated. Use the report button to identify any malicious content.
Content should be of an academic nature. Personal work is welcome.
Content of an occult nature is welcome, but subject to removal at the discretion of the Moderation Team.
Content related to the "ancient alien" hypothesis is not welcome.
Posting Tricks
The Sumerian language makes ample use of subscript and superscript in its transliterations. The presence or absence of these characters not only changes the "type" of thing being described, but also the meaning of the word itself. To help avoid such confusion, I've enabled the use of both subscript and superscript on this reddit.
If you type: *_234_* the result will be: 234
If you type: ^(ŋeš) the result will be: ŋeš
Right now these only work on the desktop version of the sub. Sorry mobile users, I can't really edit much of the code used to create your experience.
Academic resources:
Linguistic Resources:
Theistic Resources:
Useful Subreddits:
/r/Sumer
Maybe it's a special Friday (Venus day), but I've felt her presence pretty strongly this morning. I've worked with Inanna on and off for 2 years and I've noticed that it's usually around the end of the year. Is it just me or is there a reason?
Just curious if anyone else is baking fresh bread for offerings. I just got into baking bread this fall For me, I really like knowing that the bread I offer was made by me, and I am making bread now intending it to be part of an offering, so baking has picked up a bit of a devotional aspect for me.
Id like to try brewing beer too for special offerings.
Fresh baked sourdough bread in the photo.
In light of the recent influx of pro-Marduk spam posts and comments from the OP regularly insulting other deities, especially goddesses like Inana or Mamu, I'd like to remind everyone that this community is dedicated to the academic reconstruction and spiritual revival of devotional practices dedicated to all of Mesopotamia's deities, not just their most popular or politically relevant ones.
Theological hierarchies and political propaganda, like the Enūma eliš, can and should be discussed here, and we can certainly study the rise and fall of empires within Mesopotamia, but these things should be accompanied by proper historical context, and always while keeping in mind that there are no modern theocratic states with Mesopotamian Polytheism as their national religion, nor do we have any public temples where devotees can be attend services performed by trained and ordained clergy, so concepts like a "King of the Gods" no longer have the significance that they once did.
Please continue to share your personal devotional activities and experiences, but do so in a way that doesn't disrespect other gods and goddesses or their devotees.
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Kug dig̃ir-a-nun-na-ke₄-ne za₃-mi₂-zu-ne-ne dug₃-ga-am₃
O holy Anunnakkū, your praise is sweet!
Kug dig̃ir-ad-g̃ar-ki-dug₃ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Adg̃arkidu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-an za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy An, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-asal-lu₂-ḫe za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Asalluḫe, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-aš₈-gi₄ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ašgi, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ba-bu₁₁ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Babu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-bi-ir-tum za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Birtum, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-da-gan za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Dagān, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-dumu-zid za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Dumuzi, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-en-KI za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Enki, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-en-lil₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Enlil, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-en-nu-gi za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ennugi, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-en-sa₆-ag za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ensag, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ereš-ki-gal-la za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ereškigala, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ezina₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ezina, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-gibil₆ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Gibil, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-gu-la za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Gula, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-g̃a₂-tum₃-dug₃ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy G̃atumdug, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-g̃eš-ḫur-an-ki za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy G̃ešḫuranki, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-g̃eštin-an-na za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy G̃eštinana, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ḫa-ia₃ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ḫaya, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ḫendur-sag̃-g̃a₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ḫendursag̃a, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ḫuš-bi-sag̃₉ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ḫušbisag̃, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-inana za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Inanna, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-iškur za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Iškur, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ištaran za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ištarān, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-ku₃-su₃ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Kusu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-la-az za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Laz, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-li₉-si₄ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Lisin, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-mar-tu za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Martu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-me-dim₂-ša₄ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Medimša, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-mes-lam-ta-e₃-a za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Meslamtaea, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-na-na-a za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nanaya, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nam-ra-at za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Namrat, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nam-tar za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Namtar, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-namma za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Namma, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nanna za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nanna, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nanše za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nanše, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nergal za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nergal, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-a-zu za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninazu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-dar-a za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nindara, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-e₂-i₃-gara₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nineigara, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-eš₃-gal za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninešgal, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-gal za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ningal, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-girid₂-da za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ningirida, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-girim₃-ma za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ningirima, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-gublag za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ningublag, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-g̃eš-zid-da za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ning̃ešzida, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-g̃ir-su₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ning̃irsu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-ḫur-sag̃-g̃a₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninḫursag̃a, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-kilim za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninkilim, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-kug-sig₁₇ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninkusig, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-lil₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninlil, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-mar-KI za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nimmarki, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-muš₃-bar za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninmušbar, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-mug za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninmug, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-nisig za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninnisig, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-siki-la₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninsikila, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-sumun₂-na za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninsumuna, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-šubur za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninšubur, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-ur₄-ra za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninurra, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nin-urta za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Ninurta, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nisaba za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nisaba, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nu-muš-da za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Numušda, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nun-gal za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nungal, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-nuska za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Nuska, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-pa-bil-sag̃ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Pabilsag̃, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-pa₄-nun-an-ki za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Panunanki, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-sa-dar₃-nun-na za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Sadarnuna, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-šakkan₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Šakkan, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-šara₂ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Šara, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-še₃-ri₅-da za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Šerida, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-šu-zi-an-na za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Šuziana, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-šul-pa-e₃ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Šulpae, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-uraš za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Uraš, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-uttu za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Uttu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-utu za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Utu, it is sweet to praise you!
Kug dig̃ir-za-ba₄-ba₄ za₃-mi₂-zu dug₃-ga-am₃
Holy Zababa, it is sweet to praise you!
The rise of the cult of Marduk is closely connected with the political rise of Babylon from city-state to the capital of an empire. From the Kassite Period, Marduk became more and more important until it was possible for the author of the Babylonian Epic of Creation to maintain that not only was Marduk king of all the gods but that many of the latter were no more than aspects of his persona
Marduk's origins and original functions are obscure. He is associated with incantations already in the Old Babylonian period (Sommerfeld 1987-90: 368). Whether this was the reason for or result of a syncretism TT with the god Asalluhi is unclear (Sommerfeld 1982: 13-18). More recently Sommerfeld (1987-90: 368) cautiously indicated that his function as a god of incantations may have been original to Marduk. A different suggestion holds that Marduk was deliberately syncretised TT with Asalluhi in order to give Marduk a strong association with the city of Eridu and the god Enki/Ea, a powerful deity who did not belong to the original pantheon of Nippur (Abusch 1999: 543-4).
At the same time Marduk is mainly known as the patron god of the city of Babylon, and it has often been suggested that Marduk's religious importance increased with the city's growing political influence (e.g., George 1992: 248-9; Oshima 2007: 348). In the first millennium, Marduk is identified with Jupiter (Abusch 1999: 542.
I'm so excited to start
I've been searching for descriptions of Nisaba, Inanna and Ereshkigal but found little information. Ninhursag (sorry if I spelled it wrong) as a deer or mountain, but it's difficult to just.... Draw it or make a picture in your head hahahah
I can only imagine Nisaba as grain, with a pen and writing (I don't know the name in English). Inanna is easier to imagine and Ereshkigal as a queen with a black long dress but that dress is a modern one...Oof 😅 I know people put drawings and even little sculptures in their altar, but I cannot imagine how would I draw a god I haven't seen or without description.
Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. I'm just curious about it.
gods like inana or mamu have little Or no big Changes historical or nations wide at the time.
Great example of both gods killed the two biggest foes of the anunakki.
Simply An underdog Mythology at best. Bigger authority was defeated trying to exterminate younger gods
Greetings to all.
I'm new to this mythology and religion, I found a YouTube video and a Spanish article that mentions this relationship, the latter vaguely and for some reason puts Innnana as a weaver of destinies, My point is whether there is a myth that links them, or within the Babylonian, Assyrian, Akkadian myths about this relationship.
I think I saw a caption that mentions, "Innnana's spider tending the garden", any reference text?
Thank you for your time.
Holy crap, words can't describe how much I love the Queen.
I did a ritual last week of being accepted in a school for a competitive program. I begged her to get me out of this household and help me become independent. She sent me a dream of struggling to drive 1 hr. at this school and later that day, I received an email about being rejected. I was pretty sad and lost hope, but I knew that she did this for my own health's sake.
I checked my email a few days later and it turns out I got off the waiting list and accepted in the closest school.
Praise be to my lady wrapped in beauty. Praise be to Inanna! ✨
Fui atraído para adorar Inanna. Gostaria de saber como devo montar o altar à deusa Inanna: O que colocar lá? Cor da vela? As oferendas e assim por diante...
This has probably been asked before. I guess I have a distaste for organized religions in general (Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, etc.) due to the misogyny, homophobia, etc, but I can't help but feel like a hypocrite for it. Some people saw Babylonians as bad people, while others applauded them for being an advanced nation.
Did Mesopotamian polytheists perform religious practices that'd be considered immoral in this era?
Silim! erin₂ duga, (greetings! good people,)
I've been talking to a lot of other pagans on the daily, and something that comes up seemingly endlessly is "what is the name of your religion?" to which I reply "Mesopotamian Polytheism", to which their follow up is often "isn't "Mesopotamian" a foreign word, what was it really called / originally called / called in your own words?".
As many of you may be aware, that we know of, there was no word for religion, and no word for their religion in Sumerian. We have "Emegir" for Sumerian tongue (literal: "native tongue"). We also have their word for Sumer: "Kiengir" 𒆠𒂗𒂠 ki-en-ŋir15 / sometimes written as "Kengir". We even have an Akkadian construction which attempts to describe our religion: "Kiššat Parṣī", the "sum-total of cultic ordinances". But we have no Sumerian name for our religion. As a student of Emegir I would love to propose an additional name for our religion, and I am very open to suggestions and feedback. Now, I'm not planning on publishing this anywhere soon or trying to inject it as an expert's name for us, but I would love to have a name that we all can use freely, informally if you would, which maybe would catch on and become accepted if enough people embrace it.
The Sumerian word for "knowledge" is 𒌣 umun₂.
Why not construct something based on this word?
Here are my suggestions so far:
I did initially try constructing an Old Babylonian grammar version of #1 but it was damn near unpronounceable, as it instantly tongue-tied me repeatedly. Anunnana-Umun. Even the Middle Sumerian form, Anunna-ak-Umun, felt a bit clumsy. I'm open to feedback about other words besides Umun if y'all can think of one that would be good as well. Most other words that would fit either don't have Sumerian equivalents or are even harder to pronounce.
I'm eager to hear what you all think, and I hope the response I get is not "Siri, Mesopotamian Polytheism is fine we don't need anything else". I love our religion, and most others have an authentic name for their faith even if it is a modern construction, we deserve one too, so why not be bold and assertive and create what we are missing out on in an authentic way.
#1 is my favorite by far, but I'm also partial to #4 for the precision and perfect grammar.
EDIT: I did not mean to imply that we would be replacing our current terms of "Mesopotamian Polytheist" and "Kiššat Parṣī", or Sumerian/Akkadian/Babylonian/Assyrian Pagan.
My only intention is to add a Sumerian term for those who want one, in the vein that later religious forms were derived from the Sumerian religion, the Sumerian term would be inclusive towards all forms of Mesopotamian Polytheistic Paganism which were derived from Sumerian Paganism.
Is it ok that I worship Enki while worshipping deity’s from other religions and preforming occult practices from other deity’s.
Since the subject has come up often enough, and the sidebar/Info page isn't being regularly consulted, I've decided to add a permanent directory of cuneiform databases to the highlight threads for our community. Below you'll find a sampling of the best databases available for finding transliterated and translated cuneiform texts based on time period, language, and genre.
What you won't find on most of the databases shared below are transcriptions or line-art of texts. While you might want to see the cuneiform signs themselves, the values/readings of a given sign are what Assyriologists use to translate the text, so that is what most databases encode.
GENERAL DATABASE
DICTIONARIES
LITERARY TEXTS BY TIME PERIOD
ROYAL INSCRIPTIONS BY PERIOD AND PLACE
CUNEIFORM TEXTS CATALOGED BY TYPE
Please keep in mind that this is not intended to be an exhaustive list. There are literally dozens of "portal" sites (as cataloged on ORACC's project page) dedicated to specific aspects of cuneiform literature. The goal of this post and its collection of resources is to provide what I believe are the most useful databases for our readership and community. If you happen to be interested in a niche subject, such as topography, mathematics, or the specific group of texts that were discovered at a city like Nineveh or the Library of Ashurbanipal, I guarantee someone has created a "portal" site to satisfy your needs. You need only look around a bit and you'll find what you're looking for.
I’ve been looking as I’m doing a little thing for the moon god and I wanted to see what the name was in cuneiform to help me out
Hello,
Where can I find the translation of sumer/akkadian, assyrian tablets and text ?
I found few websites from official institutions like the oxford website, but I didn't find any translation, or maybe I missed it.
Thank you for your help.
Hello everybody! I was reading how the Sumerians would write an incantation cuneiform on magical items, does anyone know what the symbol is?
I know I'm stupid, don't judge me please 😔 I have no idea who's this is other than "a demon"
Hello, I have to work on the temple of Ishtar during the Akkad period. Do you have any sources or links (archaeological, religious, political and social context) ? Thanks! :)
Would folks on this sub consider the religious traditions of the Hittites to fall under Mesopotamian Polytheism, or are the indo-european roots of their core gods kind of at odds with MT? The Hittites were pretty expansive in which gods they worshipped, I've seen "the war-like [visage of] Inanna" called out by name in some Hittite treaties.
Long story short, my grand father was heavily into the occult. Picture as severe as someone can be involved in it, and then make it worse, is probably the best way I can explain it from what I was told. Anyway, I found a box of his old things and this was in it. It's got some engravings that you might not be able to see in the picture, but the strange shape and design made me think it might be more than just some hunk of metal so I figured I'd post and see if it's anything interesting
Hihi! I just moved into my first ever apartment of my own (thank you, Section 8!) and I'm setting up my various and sundry shrines, leading me to wonder....
Does anyone here know of a good source for a statue or wall-piece or some other artistic representation of Ninshubur that I could use on their shrine? Something better than, like, printing out a picture from online somewhere lol
I am devoted primarily to Ninshubur (and thus to Inanna by transitive property lol) and would love to enshrine them properly.
I've been performing occult workings with and through Enki (both as a god I worship and as an icon/archetype to focus on in those work) for a number of years now and I'm wondering if anyone here has done so similarly and would be interesting in sharing either in comments or in DMs. Would just love to discuss any shared experiences
Hello, I've been doing research for a while to try to find out if the goddess Tiamat and the goddess Nammu /Namma are thesame goddess or not. All the articles contradict each other.
I know that the etymology of the name Namma comes from the Sumerian and that of Tiamat comes from the Akkadian. Sumerian was the "main" language of Mesopotamia for a while before it was no longer spoken and replaced by Akkadian. (I know that even when Sumerian was no longer spoken, it was still used in writing.)
But since we have very little information on one or the other, it's complicated to know exactly when they were mentioned. I believe that nothing has been found about Tiamat that dates from before the Enūma eliš when Nammu was mentioned before.
They represent about the same things (goddess of creation, primordial ocean, mother of gods...) except that Tiamat is also described as an antagonist and not Nammu. Since it was common at that time to take "myths" and rewrite them by changing parties, see the whole meaning of the work, and since it is thought that the Enūma eliš is a copy of an older version, is it possible that Nammu became Tiamat? And is it possible that the meaning of the work was changed to "demonized" Nammu and that's why we would have changed his name?
I can't get a clear idea on the matter, so I'd like to know other people's opinions!
(I hope I expressed myself understandably enough, I don't speak English well.)