/r/scifiwriting
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/r/scifiwriting
First off, I wrote this to organize my own thoughts and notes on this topic. And a coherent text seems more permanent than a collection of bullet points or notes with bad grammar and even worse spelling. I can't simply delete it and start over. Writing my thoughts out helped me, maybe it will help you and maybe I get some sweet, but ultimately useless, internet points for posting this. And I see it as an exercise for my own writing.
When I started thinking about ship classification, I felt pretty dump. So I started to read up what type of classification system is used today and I felt less dump but confused. Then I went further back in time, trying to understand how the currently used classifications came to be. Back to WW2, then WW1, then the age of ironclads and the age of sail. Even as far back to ancient Greece. And while I could now write a whole thesis around the historical development of ship classifications, I also learnt two takeaways that I want to give you first:
Do you know what a Frigate is? Probably yes.
Do you think your idea of a Frigate is the same idea I have when I talk about a Frigate? Probably not.
-- History lesson starts here, you could skip this --
The term "Frigate" changed since it was introduced in the age of sail. A frigate started out as a comparatively cheap warship, designed for long-range operations while being on their own while having a single gun-deck. Protecting their nations’ interest overseas, protecting trade against Pirates, carrying communications, fighting against enemy frigates and other even less-capable ships. But NOT to fight the enemy's main combatants. In the age of sail, a frigate going up against the main combatants-equivalents called "Ships of the Line" or "1st, 2nd and 3rd Rates" would be suicidal. To the point there was a gentlemen’s agreement that the frigates would not be shot at by the bigger combatants except the frigate fired first. There are some special cases, like Frigates ganging up against bigger foes but I'll stick to what usually happened and not the fringe cases.
Quit note, what makes a Ship of the Line? Having more than one gun deck.
Some years later, when steam and iron armor got introduced, you get into the Age of Ironclads. The first ironclads were classified as Frigates (HMS Warrior) because they had a single gun deck. But with much bigger guns and much thicker armor than any Ship of the Line. An Ironclad frigate would blow an age of sail Ship of the Line out of the water. Suddenly the frigates were the main line combatants. But the nations still needed a "comparatively cheap warship designed for long-ranged operations while being on their own". The classification of Cruiser was introduced to classify ships for the lower end of operations: trade protection, interest protection, fighting against pirates.
Later on, ironclad frigates were re-classified as "Battleships" while the classification of Cruisers stuck around. We arrive at what is usually making up the classifications what today are most familiar with. Battleships > Cruisers > [Destroyers] > ? > Frigate > ? > [Guy on an inflatable raft with an RPG]
The term Frigate was not used for close a hundred years until it was resurrected in the 2nd World War. But there were still cruisers around to fulfill the use case of „comparatively cheap warship designed for long-ranged operations while being on their own". What were Frigates used for? Escorting convoys and defending them against submarines and airplanes. Convoy escort is another use case than "long ranged operations on their own". And, because you might not be confused enough yet, besides Frigates, there were Corvettes, Destroyer Escorts, Escort Destroyers and Sloops that all have their own role within the "Escort" Use Case, each of different size and different weapon and sensor fit. And please note, I wrote "Convoy Escort". Frigates were not used for escorting proper warships like Battleships and Carriers. There were Destroyers for that, maybe Destroyer Escorts. But I digress
But what is a Frigate today? Usually a multi-purpose warship. A stereotypical frigate might carry a gun, missiles for Air-Defense and Self-Defense, Anti-Ship missiles and one or more helicopters. A frigate is, usually, a warship designed to be comparatively cheap, designed for longer-ranged operations and able to stand on their own. Hey, we came full circle! Isn't that great?
But have you heard of Destroyers? What are those? Essentially bigger frigates. More capable frigates. More expensive frigates. Tracing the lineage of Destroyers is a whole other can of worms. But suffice it to say that it could be argued that today’s Destroyers are essentially cruisers. Does this make today's Cruisers actually Battleships? Good questions that are not on my agenda today. But wait, I'm not done with Frigates!
--- History lesson ends here (mostly), but I'll feel personally attacked if you skipped it ---
See, the UK is building a new frigate class (Type 26, City-class) Nothing unusual, really. The Canadian navy is buying a modified City-class, calling them River-class and classifying them as Destroyers while not necessarily being more capable. Probably even the opposite. Meanwhile, Germany's next frigate class (F126) weigh above 10.000 tonnes while the prototypical destroyer of our time (Arleigh Burke class) weighs 9.500 tonnes while at the same time it is arguably more heavily armed. And did you know that until 1975, the US Navy called their major surface escorts Frigates only to re-classify them overnight into cruisers?
And here at the latest you should scream at your screen as you realize that classifications don't really matter. A nation will classify its ships as it wants to. The only rule is that there are no rules. Ship classifications are a hornet’s nest that will probably cause you and/or your readers headaches if you are not careful.
Therefore, I come to my conclusion that it is not helpful to try too hard to analyze a ship classification system (don't make the same errors I did, except you want to learn useless knowledge that most definitely will never come in handy…). Instead, work out your use-cases:
And keep the reader in mind. For a more space opera Sci Fi like "The Expanse", going from Frigate to Cruiser to Battleship is probably deep enough for most readers. If you are writing Military Sci Fi, you could introduce more nuances. Maybe even playing off the chaos of classifications and writing dialogue of two characters complaining that Side A's frigates are comparable to side B's cruisers. "Older" readers might have absorbed more knowledge about the world and thus know more about ship classifications while young adults might not.
Should there be demand for a more detailed look at the development of ship classifications over time, let me know :) (What's wrong with you?!)
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Foot Notes
Hey all! Posting a small sample of an active work. Very little has been done to refine my grammar and spelling, this is early. Just looking for some feedback on the vibe, setting, and if this acts as a hook to said setting. This is my first post on the sub so if there is interest I would be more than happy to share more.
Thanks for feedback in advance!
This question is a bit tricky. Since I'm asking this question from a science fiction fiction perspective, and possibly a real world perspective too. At least kind of theoretically though.
When it comes to my story. I always have ideas about Extraterrestrial life just being pure energy or just a feeling.
So I wonder if there would be limitations on how lifeforms can be made in the universe.
Hey everyone, I am looking for a bit of feedback and thoughts on some governmental organisation for my sci-fi worldbuilding. My story has some interstellar politics of a human federal republic. I am looking for some feedback on its tiers of government and the administrative divisions. This is my first worldbuilding project.
So far, I have two ideas for a design of this federation. One with three tiers of government which are the primary administrative divisions, and each has a sub-division. The other is five primary tiers of government with the option of each having its own sub-division that it organises.
Some additional context before I get into the organisational ideas. This federation is stable, democratic and respects freedom and the rule of law. Each tier of government is required to maintain its own Police, Military, Gendarmerie forces and all act as reserves for the Federal Government. Although this state is far from a particularly equal union behaving more like a Unitary nation than a Federal one as the Federal government can break apart is sub-national entities and possesses the ability to override the laws of its sub-national entities and can federalise almost anything whenever it requires it.
The first idea and my current preferred is the five tiers of government which act as administrative divisions. The tiers of government are the Federal, State, Province, Banat and Canton. Each maintains their own Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches to which the Legislative is bicameral on all tiers. The federation has a single unifying constitution buts its sub-national entities do not have their own constitutions. All tiers are directly elected by the citizens.
The second idea lays out the nation with three tiers in the form of the Federal, State and Provinces as the three primary tiers. Each has its own organised sub-divisions in the form of Zones, Regions and Areas. In this form the nation possesses a federal constitution, and each state and province are allowed their own form of a constitution. The primary tiers of directly elected and possess a Executive, Bicameral Legislature and Judicial branch and the secondary tiers are indirectly elected which act purely in an administrative capacity.
I am happy to explain further ideas if you have further questions? I would love some feedback! Thank you in advance.
I get that sound travels faster in denser matter and whatnot. But I'm still kinda curious why I've never heard of any kind of tech that utilizes this (both irl and in scifi). The closest thing I've got is a few people (both blind and not) who trained themselves to use some kind of active echolocation similar to bats and shit.
Anyway, my main question is whether it's possible to create some kind of sonar gadget for this. And if so, why we haven't made it even for shits and giggles; is it bcuz we have better alternatives or just a general lack of need for it?
I intend to use said gadget in my fic to counter a form of invisibility (use by infantries) that can't be detected by light in all wavelengths bcuz magic reasons.
So I finally have a last name for my character and I am wondering if you guys who write ever make up a name and have it be pronounced different than what it looks like. The name is Raen. Supposed to sound like (ray-en) but when you look at it and when i google it, it sounds like (rain). I know i am writing a fantasy story that is my own but is it normal to have names be pronounced different than what they look?
My knowledge on this subjects is youtube and wikipedia level. So, correct me if a misunderstood something.
I have a massive, I mean MASSIVE, backlog of OC story excerpts, worldbuilding frameworks, story outlines, bulleted lists, and even some flowery descriptive depictions of scenes that I have come up with, usually while sitting outside smoking cigarettes deep into the night.
I’ve tried to post things on Reddit and usually get blocked by an auto moderator, an actual moderator, or just get zero traction because it’s off topic for the sub’s purpose. That’s fine.
But I’d love to find a group of likeminded wanna-be writers, like myself, to bounce ideas off of. Sometimes very large and dense ideas.
Is that here?
In my story (which, admittedly, is inspired by Interstellar), an alien race finds a natural wormhole a few light-years away from their system, which sets the stage for the rest of the story.
Now, putting aside that wormholes are extremely theoretical, I'm going off of what was said on the Orion's Arm "Question" page:
Naturally occurring wormholes typically appear and vanish with their mouths separated by distances comparable to the Planck scale. However, during the cosmological inflation epoch, some wormhole mouths could become separated by very large distances. As the temperature of the Universe dropped, some of these relic wormholes could have had their topological properties frozen into the large scale structure of spacetime (much like bubbles of air in ice).
What would be the best place for a wormhole like that to remain stable enough to be found–the center of the galaxy?
"I ude to mean something! Stadues! They built statues in my honor!" I slurred, thrusting my empty glass across the bar. "Fucking humans."
"Oh?" The human bartender Clive, asked raising an eyebrow.
"Apologies mister." I blurted trying to conceal my embarrassment.
"It's- It's just. Before your kind, I never knew failure. My name is Petrin. Chi- Formely Chief Science Officer, of the Kerlin Empire.
My people were expanders. We controlled over a hundred planets in more than twenty systems. Our battle doctrine was to overwhelm the military forces on the planet we wanted, then turn them into conscripts for our expansion force. We were unmatched in our armies.
So imagine our delight, when we discovered an entire planet of warlike death worlders post FTL."
"What happened?" Clive asked, polishing a glass.
"We learned your species is called humans, and you have incredible aptitude for combat, survival, and tactical awareness. I was tasked with studying your kind, find out how you fight, then plan out how to use your combat skills against our future conscripts.
We knew that we didn't stand a chance against your military, but if we could harness your combat knowledge, we would flatten Derrion within days.
My collection teams were sent out to retrieve five human specimens to study their skills. Specifically, hand to hand combat. The teams brought me exactly what I was looking for. Four men, and a woman. All physically fit, and confused as to the expirements they were about to undergo."
"Something went wrong?" Clive asked his eyes fixated on the glass in his hands.
"Wrong is an understatement" I choked. "We put the first human, a brooding tower of a man two meters tall and rippling with your muscle mass."
"What are you doing?" He asked. "I have a family! I don't know what's going on!"
"You'll figure it out when the gate opens!" I shouted through my translator.
"We shoved the human into the arena we had made for our study, and opened the gate. Out stepped the Grystal. A ferocious beast. Well short of the humans stature, but with two more arms than the human. The Grystals lower arms were affixed with two long claws it used to eviscerate its prey, before consuming it. The horn sounded and the fight began.
The Grystal lunged forward, attempting to strike the human with its claws, and he sidestepped the attack. The Grystal slid into the arena wall with a crash and then the human struck.
Running up behind the now dazed Grystal, the human wrapped his arms around it, lifted, and spun on his heels. Slamming the Grystal into the floor. He then grabbed the head carapace of the Grystal and repeatedly lifted and slammed its head into the floor sending blood and brains scrambling."
"Eesh. Grisly." Clive said reaching for another glass.
"I went to the human as the Grystal was being removed. "What have you learned from this fight human?" He looked at me puzzled. Then he grinned and stood. Upright and silent. "What have you learned from this fight human!?" I asked again shouting this time.
He stood with resolution. A look of what was it? Confidence in his eyes. "You know the rules. I will not break the rules!" He said to the room apparently, as he was looking at no one."
"Curious." Clive said refilling my long empty glass. "What then?"
"The cycle repeated. Human versus Grystal, the men, the woman, all victorious. Overtime I asked them the question, I received the same response. "You know the rules. I will not break the rules!"
Then it happened. The Grystal won. It landed a lucky strike on one of the men. An artery my medical team called it. The Grystals claw had sliced a hidden artery in the humans torso, and the human bled to death quickly."
"Quite a shame." Clive whispered. He eyes back on polishing the glass.
"We had to follow the law. By our law, any species that is taken for our science and dies in our care, must be returned to where they were taken with an apology and an explanation of their death."
"Hmm." Clive grunted.
"Inside twenty four of your human hours, we recieved word that human warships were on their way with their response. I ran to the cell holding the remaining humans and asked. "Your armada is coming. They are furious at the death of your fallen. Please, tell me how to defeat them!"
"They all rose, their eyes fixed on the wall. "You know the rules. We will not break the rules!" What are you even- my empire is in danger of destruction, please! How do I stop your armada!?
'You know the rules. We will not break the rules!"
"Gods above! The rules are what I SAY THEY ARE! What are these rules you keep on about?"
The giant, brooding human, Tyler, leaned forward his eyes direct with mine,
"The first rule of fight club!"
"Our surrender was unconditional. My empire is now defunct, and our people scattered to the stars.
I've recently read of "the laser problem" from toughSF(it basically states that any spacecraft with a powerful drive could also mount a very powerful laser, forcing combat to very extreme ranges, which isn't very fun).
But I think conventional smoke dispersal or heavy metal particles like Gundam's anti-beam grenades would scatter too quickly to be useful.
Even before that though I knew that smoke screens to block line of sight would be profoundly useful in space warfare(portable concealment). However, even here on earth with a atmosphere to hold things together clouds of materiel disperse rather quickly.
So how could you sustain a concealing smoke screen of some kind between yourself and your enemies in space?
For some examples: In the Orion's Arm project there was a mention somewhere of creating hot plasma clouds by mixing antimatter... But that requires alot of antimatter!
And this from the epic mind of Martechi: https://www.deviantart.com/martechi/art/Setting-up-defenses-Terran-Mandate-877119275q
The article on laser problem: https://toughsf.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-laser-problem-one-of-most-important.html?m=1
EDIT: I remember reading long ago of certain configurations of nuclear bombs that could burn longer creating a blinding flare effect or a field of plasma...
The challenge is to keep the "smoke"(whatever it's composed of) dispersed but not continuously scattering. Like a cloud that takes a long time to dissipate
Without going into too many details, my story involves a galactic government that used to use AIs to help manage the sheer volume of bureaucracy involved in running a government at that scale. Unfortunately, the AIs rebelled and the government basically imploded.
My idea was that they'd eventually convince a species of plant/slime/bacteria aliens to act as a giant biological supercomputer as a replacement. It's not a perfect substitute, obviously, as there's a significant time-delay, but it's better than nothing.
Would this work?
I’m playing with the concept of a “capital ship” of a galaxy spanning alien empire, as they control many worlds, but theirs became uninhabitable long ago, and I kind of want a sort of mothership, but I want it to have believable proportions. So I wanted to ask how big it could believably be without it being ridiculous.
Had what I thought was a genius idea in the car today but on closer thought I feel like this may have been done before.
A Private company creates a business model on time travel. They send agents back in time to recover and even see to the production of works of historical and artistic value, I.e getting Julius Caesar's artigraph for some billionaire, or commissioning an actual Renaissance artist to paint something for a client. They follow some government set regulations regarding preserving the timeline, which in this story is on its own modertly self correcting.
Am I treading to close to something already done or is this unique enough of a concept.
American here pursuing a career as a sci-fi author for an American (and Anglophone in general) audience. I’m a woman with Hispanic roots and I really want to keep my first name (which sounds old timey and American. Example: Marilyn). I also want to make my author last name a different one than my real last name but still have it be Hispanic. I’m not sure if that’d be a good idea though as it may be off putting to the audience I’m trying to appeal to. Thoughts? I made sure it wasn’t that hard to pronounce or anything long and complicated. (Example: Marilyn Monteros)
Also, if I’m not mistaken, the sci-fi genre is dominated by men? Would it be in my best interest to keep my first name? Ugh I don’t wanna change it to a male name, unisex or an initial thing. My target audience is both men & women. I’m planning on launching a short story collection and it’s 50/50 in the main characters’ sex.
But thoughts? lol
I’m not a fan of gambling what so ever so I don’t know what the mindset is like, I’ll make a bet on something I know I’ll win on and if it’s a physical contest I lose gracefully. My guess would be the thrill of risk but what would there be to risk if you live in a society where everything you need is provided and if you want more it’s there. The only tangible risk I can think of immediate physical peril inherent extreme sports or martial arts. But at the same time it is a different feeling, I’ve done silly stunts and gotten into fights yet gambling is not for me.
Apologies for the rambly post, I’m just curious about the potential for a rough underside for a seemingly utopian post scarcity society. Not really in the form of corruption but in how people intentionally destroy themselves for a thrill, what happens psychologically when comfort is inherent to life?
How do you Deal with communication?
I have one language wich is really simple and a mandetory subject in basicly every school in the federation.
But you basicly have to learn all vocabulary like three times, because the same word is spoken differently by different species, dependig on their sondern peoducung organs. And then there is varying vocabulary by region of cause. On earth for example, you might her some human words, just pronounced wierdly. Like local slang basicly.
Do you think that would work irl? Thete are also close to real time translators of cause, but not everyone has implants* and having your Phone out all the time to speak wirh and understands people is annoying.
*since its not 100% save (its still a surgery), its painfull and takes a bit to heal, its quite expensive and is still viewed at as wierd by some, sepecailly some religois people.
Like some kind of regular maintenance that happens every three months. The basically Alcubierre drives for interstellar travel attached to fusion torches for systemwide travel.
Hello! As the title says, I'm writing a short story set in the Asteroid Belt, and a crucial point of the climax resolution is luring a ship to a specific point (without them realizing its a lure). Some background:
The story is set on 22 Kalliope and its moon Linus, which is overseen by the Kalliope-Linean Miners Collective (cybernetically-augmented asteroid miners & technicians with a consensus democracy). A mercenary vessel, hired by a rival corporation, appears to annex their operation and boot them out. The general defensive strategy of the KLMC has been to use their large mobile mass-driver (which they use to ship minerals to different places) to deter such threats: however, they're cut unawares by an espionage attack and the mass-driver is destroyed. Beyond that, they only have a few nuclear warheads and repurposed mining drones, which the enemy vessel can easily negate.
The thing is, their sister-operation on Linus also has a mass-driver which they use to launch minerals at Kalliope to be collected. However, this is a fixed installation and can't be aimed, so the main characters plan is to somehow lure the enemy ship into the firing path of the Linean mass-driver and fire an explosive payload.
The problem arises though, with both why and how? One, what would entice/force the ship to maneuver between the two bodies orbits, and two, how would the MC go about it? Any ideas?
So, I've got a pretty good idea of my universe, but I'm currently looking for a proper spot to write the history different factions and characters down. Can you all have some advice on where I could do this? I've considered Google docs, but is there a better alternative? What do you guys use?
I was doing some worldbuilding and was wondering if slowing down time in populated areas (ships, cities, space stations) would be a believable solution to interstellar travel times. although ships would be moving between stars for years or decades. it would only appear to take months in these slowed time zones. this would also allow for perceived quicker communication between colonies
my question now is how difficult would it be to achieve this level of time dilatation and would the positives of this concept outweigh the negatives?
Same as titile. It is an intelligent specias.
I started writing a story about a group of people who are exploring a mega-cave (yes I know there is no such thing). I am struggling coming up with gadgets and equipment that they would use to explore the cave. The story takes place a couple decades in the future, so nothing too futuristic. Some examples could be
Improved re-breather equipment that is relativity light and lets the user breather fro hours at a time
Advanced drills and clamps to make attaching and creating ropes to rappel with easy.
Communication devices that let them communicate.
(NO MAGIC!!!!)
This spring I finished a book I'd spent about 3.5 yrs working on. It was about 83k words. I let it sit for about 6 months, and then started doing a read through on it. I really like the story, but there was something off about it that I couldn't figure out. So, I gave it to my father to read. He spent 20 yrs as a newspaper editor/publisher, and has helped other writers clean up stories. He suggested that I change from a limited omniscient narrator to a 1st person narrative.
I thought it was going to be difficult to change that, but it's actually been extremely easy. It's also allowed me to get a little more indepth on the perspective of the main character, and uts really helped to clean up scenes. I've so far added almost 10k words to my book, and I still have about 8 chapters to go.
However, with changing it to a 1st person narrative, I think I'm going to need to delete a few parts because the original narration was able shift from the main character to a couple different supporting characters, and there's no clean way to insert main character into those scenes.
The scenes don't really advance the story, but they really help flesh out those specific characters.
One scene is the admiral explaining how a past event led him to where he's at not, and why he's worried about going back into battle. He'd lost 50k troops in a no-win scenario, and the guilt has been hanging on him for years. It's why he transferred to being the commander of the training battalion. Another is of him sending a message to his wife letter to let her know he's retiring when he gets home. There are a couple other scenes like that for other characters
I've thought about switching the narrator, but the scenes are small and those characters aren't a major part in the story, and I think it'd be more of a bump in the road than complimentary. The scenes also aren't important to the overall story, but they're important to those characters. They're really good character scenes, very heartfelt, but they don't actually move the story forward.
Should I try saving them or sacrifice them to the writing gods?
I'd like suggestions for exotic weapons (particularly superweapons) which are at least somewhat possible in theory (so no gravitational manipulation or inertial nullification devices, or anything of that sort), but not necessarily practical. What I have so far are:
What are some other interesting weapons that I could use?
Edit: Assume standard relativistic projectiles (like a moonlet propelled by thrusters) are off the table.
Edit 2: Exotic weapon suggestions so far:
Hi community!
I'm currently drafting the sequel to my first manuscript of a very soft, low concept scifi story, but in my soft world/universe, I feel like sending my MC to a parallel dimension for Act 2 is just too much. Another reason I'm weary of this trope is that if it's all a parallel universe, its stakes won't matter, and I'll be using precious pages that could be developing "real" characters that do matter.
Here's a brief summary of my world and the reason behind wanting to use this trope:
The story takes place over two generations, starting in the 1990's on a regular Earth, completely ignorant to the larger galaxy. As of the second book, we're now roughly in the present. The MC is a regular "Terran" who has unique powers due to a greater worldbuilding omitted here. The powers are essentially the ability to manipulate space-time (mostly space), meaning, I use hand-waved "physics" instead of pure magic. In short, a form of telekinesis plus the ability to teleport.
The climax of the first book is that she fights and defeats the big baddie, and the sequel starts with her dealing with the psychological trauma of those events. Ultimately, while trying to contend with her misbelief, she pushes her powers into the "time" part of space-time, but she botches it and winds up in a parallel universe.
The reason I want to workshop this is because even in my fantasy-like story, I feel like using this trope is just too much. I want to use it is because my story is extremely character driven, and the parallel universe is going to flip everyone's role, where the good guys are the bad guys, bad guys are good, and so on. I want to explore my MC's personality and her choices, and especially misbelief/character flaws by putting her in a situation where everyone's role is reversed and she'll have to explore why that is. She'll eventually learn her lesson and return home and be one step closer to completing her hero's journey.
Are there any great works that do a similar thing I could maybe draw on for inspiration as I flesh out this idea? Or does anyone have any alternative ideas to accomplish this introspective Act 2 journey using a more grounded plot device?
Im having issues on justifying why humans would ever stay on mars when there are plenty of mining habitats near the asteroid belt, let alone be a high population planet that has fought a war. Any suggestions?
I can imagine that within 50-100 years humans can halt aging and even reverse it through various medical / biotechnology. Humans will be amortal (ageless) -- not immortal since they can still be shot, run over, squished, etc. This would have a profound effect on people and society.
How do you deal with this in your stories? Outlaw age-stopping tech? Make it flawed in some (unrealistic) way? Make it culturally unacceptable? Or just go with it?
Thanks in advance! Also, if none of them hit quite right, let me know that as well.
the plot for my story involves present day humanity being attacked by an advanced alien race and losing until they manage to steal some alien tech and replicate it. I'm debating what assets they would actually have in space though, as the aliens have mostly made planetfall and the POV is restricted to the ground.
edit: i should have made it more clear that the vast majority of the alien force is on the planet with no immediate way to get back up, their ships are one way things and they're not the best at planning