I left this as a comment in another thread but I’m so riled up about it that I felt like it deserved its own thread.

The ending of Kingdom bugged me sooo much. This is supposed to be 300 years after Cesar’s death, long enough that ape society has all but forgotten who Cesar really was and the nature of mankind. I like this time jump; it gives the story time to breathe. Yet we cut back to this magic bunker where humans have somehow survived for three hundred years in total isolation, have a deep understanding of contemporary technology, and harbor some recent feeling grudge that apes have taken over from them, even though they, and their parents and grandparents and great great great great great great grandparents would have lived in this new order. I don’t think the screenwriters thought through just how long 300 years is. 300 years ago there wasn’t even a United States of America. How in the world would a population survive that long in a hole in the ground? How would they reproduce at a rate successful enough that ten plus generations went by? How do they know how guns work? That would be like us picking up a black rifle musket and just popping it off no sweat. And don’t get me started on powering on THREE HUNDRED YEAR OLD satellites, that don’t even have paneling and are covered in dang vines, and picking up a signal within minutes. I was iffy on the movie to that point but that end is what broke me. Honestly I’d believe in apes gaining the ability to speak before I believed that a small group of humans could survive in total isolation underground for longer than the history of some major countries. It felt like the screenwriters wanted to have their cake and eat it too; make it long enough that the apes have forgotten their heritage but also have contemporary human beings. Maybe cryosleep or something like that will be revealed to be in play, but if not this trilogy will be too much of a stretch in logic for me.

1. War For The Planet Of The Apes (2017)= A+
2. Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes (2014)= A+
3. Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes (2011)= A
4. Planet Of The Apes (1968)= A
5. Kingdom Of The Planet Of The Apes (2024)= A-
6. Escape From The Planet Of The Apes (1971)= B+
7. Conquest Of The Planet Of The Apes (1972)= B
8. Planet Of The Apes (2001)= C-
9. Beneath The Planet Of The Apes (1970)= D+
10. Battle For The Planet Of The Apes (1973)= D.

I've not seen the new movie but I've been thinking about these topics and want to see your thoughts. Firstly, the Chimp population in the United States is only around ~2,000 and this number is even less on the west coast, where Caesar's kingdom would be. Moreover, we see that Bonobos still exist in Kingdom due to Proximus Caesar (I feel that this is a mistake, and that Chimps and Bonobos especially in North America should have interbred to the extent there is no longer a distinction, or rather since Chimps have a far far greater population they should have subsumed the Bonobos) meaning we are only dealing with the Chimp population here. Doesn't this mean that mathematically most Chimps on the west coast are descended from Caesar if Cornelius had children because apes will have a more recent isopoint? Moreover, there are far more apes in Africa then in North America so how important is Caesar in the grand scheme of things if the Ape population in Africa is perhaps approaching ten million and have never heard of Caesar (2,000 in North America vs 100,000+ in Africa)? Could there have been some mass killing of apes across the world meaning Caesar's colony is essentially the most populous in the world?

Big spoilers Below!!

So at the end of the movie Noa climbs out of the vault and all of his clan is sitting on the cliff. He is then attacked by Proximus who starts to beat him up and say things like “Stand so your tribe can you see you die” or something. There’s a couple apes who try to help him early on in the fight but they get growled at by Proximus and give up. Then when he’s very badly hurt and about to be killed Noa calls on the eagles and Proximus gets taken out by the eagles.

My question is why did none of his clan help him In the fight there’s about 30 apes on the cliff and only one bad guy. I thought at first there must be others in the group who were on the villains side but after/when he’s knocked off turns out everyone was part of eagle clan and there is no other bad guys.

Noa just saved his whole tribe and they were going to let him just die? Why haven’t I seen anyone mention this.

I’d be pissed if I was Noa.

Great movie though.

Just saw Kingdom and I thought it was pretty good, like a 7-8/10.

I had this realization though when thinking about it: can we stop with the monkey slavery/internment camps lol?? It most obviously happened in the last movie in War, but it also kind of happened in Dawn when Koba locked up the Caesar sympathizers, and it also happened in Rise when Caesar liberated them all from the zoo. Now Noa has to help free his clan from Proximus.

Im mostly joking here, but it is a bit repetitive now that I seriously am thinking about it

I have seen “Kingdom” twice now and I have a good idea in which US city it takes place. Anyone else have any ideas?

that Proximus died akin to Julius Caeser? All the apes started chanting and he got stabbed from various directions, with Noa throwing the final jab. Pretty cool touch

Just like my title says I'm really hoping we see more variety in the primates. I really enjoyed this film and I'd say in its own right a 8/10. However I really wish we saw more diversity, I love the chimpanzees but they were essentially the only ones shown off in mass. There was that gorilla general and Raka the orangutan (my favourite primate) but that's about it. I was sort of hoping to see more in this "kingdom". I don't know if anything's been said from the director about adding more but I'm hoping in the next films there's certainly more variety. I'd like your thoughts if this is a big enough issue or just something small?

What if in a future movie, they make a nod or a reference from the Burton’s 2001 POTA. Kingdom established there are talking human tribes.

As odd as that movie was, I see it as a guilty pleasure.

I’m wondering if it might just be me. But doesn’t ‘Kingdom’ follow a similar story beat to ‘War’?

• Both Noa and Caesars clan is taken so they have to rescue them (the difference being Caesar doesn’t know his clan is captured until later).

• On their journey they encounter a human girl (i guess you can say both of them were called “Nova”).

• A character we were just introduced to is killed off (Rokka/Luca). Noa and Caesar are captured right after this happens.

• Noa and Caesar find their clan being used as slaves in a labour camp/prison to build a wall/dam.

• Labour camp/prison is later destroyed by a flood/avalanche.

I’m not trying to hate on ‘Kingdom’. I just want to know if anyone else noticed this or if I’m just looking into it too deeply.

I had been looking forward to this movie since its announcement. I rewatched all the 3 movies. All were great! This one wasnt bad, but I am absolutely dissapointed. The only character I had interest in died halfway. I was expecting to see an actual KINGDOM of the planet apes with advanced culture and building structures. Maybe even human zoos. Actually flip the spript. I wanted to see how far they had progressed other than decent english. They actually seem more “monkey” like in this one than the others. So many random “eee eee” “ooo ooo”. And im not saying that them being less monkey like would make them seem smarter its just off when the last 3 movies they acted completely differently. Im sure this is just a story building movie, but ceasars first movie was SO interesting. There wasnt a moment I wanted to skip. I almost fell asleep in this movie. Just so many storylines they could have chosen and I feel they dropped the ball. Extremely basic storyline.

You know at the end where they got along to fight off the leader ape. I really loved when Noa started to like bellow the bird song and soon others joined in realization that they stand strong as one. Does anyone know where i can find this amazing clip? It really touched me ❤️🙏

Did anyone else think the new movie was great I didn’t expect it to be as good as the others with Disney owning the rights but the movie was genuinely good, I loved how the original music was used especially when we got to see the scarecrows. The only downside was I didn’t really like how proximity caesar died with the eagles. I get it made sense with the eagle clan, and I can’t expect a realistic death for him considering I’m watching a movie about a post apocalyptic scenario where apes are smarter than humans.

Also we’re the humans contacting Icarus at the end or just some other humans surviving ?

I read a lot of posts saying that this was good but a step down, so I went in with lower expectations. I was quite blown away. This film was excellent and at no point did I feel it was weaker than the other 3. In fact it may be the strongest imo.

I watched Kingdom of The Planet of The Apes. I really didn’t like the cliff hanger but I was also satisfied that the Icarus was making a comeback in the reboot franchise.Now that the Icarus is coming back I wonder if Dr Zaius will be the next big bad villian in the future films. What are your thoughts?

I want to hear what other people think because I went to see it, thought it was a solid 6-7/10 and then went home and watched some vids on it and I think I like it a lot more now but I would want to hear what you think about it.

After being on this subreddit and watching practically every ape nation video on YouTube i decided to stop watching vidoes about the lore and actually watch the films and WOW. I had kingdom booked for Saturday so knew I had to watch all of the new trilogy even though I knew everything that happened. After watching Kingdom me and my dad decided to watch the originals so I have my views on them too!

RISE - really enjoyed seeing how everything started! Loved seeing Ceasars journey and how he started off but already felt very uneasy about how humanity is just screwed

DAWN - no words 10/10

WAR - 10/10, the score was phenomenal and I sobbed at multiple points in this film.

KINGDOM - really enjoyed!

PLANET (1968) - i loved the goofiness and the ending and seeing how the newer films call back to this one.

BENEATH - very strange film overall to be honest but I liked how insane it was but the fact Roddy McDowell wasn’t Cornelius was a loss in my eyes

ESCAPE - by far mine and my dads favourite of the originals so far, really enjoyed but what a sad ending :(

It makes more sense for an ape with such a need for knowledge and interest in humans. It would explain how he knew about Caesar and his teachings enough to perverse them. Plus, he would have been even more terrifying.

I understand some of these we probably don’t have answers to but I’m interested in people’s thoughts.

1. Was the group Mae was with from the base she delivered the disc to at the end? Or were they from a different intelligent group?

2. How big do we estimate Proximus’s kingdom to be? And in addition what do we estimate the population of the apes to be?

3. Why did Trevathan leave his home? To Explore?

4. Do we think Caesar’s group is still intact and out there and the apes we have seen are separate like Bad Ape from War? A mix of both?

5. Noa’s birthmark on his chest is similar to Caesar’s. Do we think Noa could be a distant relative?

Rewatching the ceasar trilogy, and im realizing now that the way koba acts and his hideologies are a lot more similars to humans. "The hate for the stranger" kinda, if history told us smth is that humans usually act, then try to understand what they have in front. And koba kinda act the same way, i find ironic that he's so similar to the humans he hates so much. (sorry for bad english, not my first language)

• Really glad the first scene was included. Aside from being fanservice it serves as a reminder of just how respected Caesar was in his time in contrast to how he’s viewed now
• The time jump was a smart move, I don’t think they would have been able to do anywhere near as much with a direct Cornelius continuation
• The detailed and realistic development of ape civilisation has always been great, but Eagle Clan is on a whole other level. It’s wild how much they were able to do with an isolated ape village
• The “For Caesar” line hit incredibly hard, and I’d imagine it would have hit even harder to someone going into the movie not knowing the plot
• I hope we find out in future how the Order of Caesar came to be, the organisation’s existence leaves much to be answered. Granted, Raka being an orangutan and Proximus’s kingdom lacking orangutans makes it likely that this was Maurice’s doing
• Not sure if this was just me but the US government vault reveal planted a “hey wait, of course people would be using doomsday vaults during the pandemic, I wonder if any of the vault civilisations have survived for centuries Fallout-style” seed in my mind that would of course be relevant later
• I love how Proximus twisted “apes strong together” into the idea that all apes should be unified under one state no matter if they want it or not. It’s simple but effective
• Trevathan was a neat addition that I’m glad wasn’t spoiled in any of the trailers
• I wonder if Proximus got confused when hearing about Julius Caesar lmao
• It’s been said but I wish we had more outright ideological debate between Proximus and Noa/Raka/whoever, what we were shown of Proxima’s reign was great but I feel there was a bit more worth telling
• I’m interested to see where the reading plot thread goes. I think Raka’s stash of Order of Caesar books could play into it, and perhaps even include Caesar’s Story (for those that don’t know, this was a tie-in novel released after War describing Caesar’s life from the perspective of Maurice). I think that’d be a great way to bridge the two trilogies
• While Proximus’ lack of screentime was disappointing, I do like how he was defeated by a clan he ordered the decimation of without a single thought
• I hope they don’t bring Proximus back, without his kingdom he’s mostly just a regular ape
• Love that it ends with the clans being freed instead of Noa taking over and becoming Proximus but good
• Seeing the vault group make contact with another group instantly evoked memories of Dreyfus, and how desperately he tried to uphold morale at the San Francisco colony and rebuild human civilisation. I think he’d be proud
• I’ve seen people complain that the humans have too much of an advantage due to their advanced technology especially given that the apes appear to have returned to smaller communities, but I think things are pretty even. Proximus’ apes were able to kill whatever group Mae was initially with, and the humans at the base are still at risk of catching the Simian Flu since we saw that hazmat suit
• I’ve also seen people call the fact that there are still satellites around a plot hole, but I think they’re forgetting that space technology was more advanced in this timeline than in ours since they sent a mission to Mars in the 2010s
• I hope that the human story avoids being predictable, because it could easily go the route of being an obvious setup for the mutants when they get around to retelling the original Planet of the Apes
• On that note I’d be interested in if any San Francisco colony/US military survivors were able to reach vaults and tell the tale of Caesar from a human perspective. Contrasting that with the Order of Caesar’s story would be interesting
• Speaking of Caesar, I’m interested in how his mythos/teachings factor into future movies. Noa doesn’t seem too interested in them, anyone under Proximus only knew his twisted version of them and Mae, despite having Raka’s medallion, doesn’t seem particularly interested either. I hope they go through with bringing Raka back
• Mae and Noa’s differing views on the relationship between humans and apes was interesting, and I can’t wait to see it be explored in future movies. Mae’s impression of apes is based on how primitive they are compared to the lost human civilisation as well as how humans were treated under Proximus’ regime. Noa, meanwhile, grew up unaware that humans were ever advanced and saw firsthand in the schoolbook that humans oppressed apes during their reign, leading to him rejecting Caesar’s teachings. So basically Mae doesn’t trust apes, Noa doesn’t trust humans and then you have Raka who believes both can coexist. It’s a great follow-up to the conflict between Caesar and Koba that stemmed from their different upbringings

Two sides of the same coin. Proximus wanted Apes to become stronger and gain new power so they can secure their future as the dominant species

And Mae wanted humans to do the same so they can reclaim their dominance.

Both were willing to kill/sacrifice any that stood in their way to reach their goal and ultimately wanted the elimination of the other.

During the opening scene at Caesar’s funeral we see Maurice (and maybe Rocket?) but the final shot before it jumps ahead is of what appears to be a smaller ape - I assume that was supposed to be Cornelius?

I feel military were only a part of a formed and stable government somewhere in the north, maybe that people survived and actually did research for a cure? Maybe we could see them in some of the new movies? Idk I feel there's something more to those soldiers (haven't seen new movie btw)

Just a heads up I didn't know there were clear distinct features on them to separate what they are so it was really on me but did anybody get confused at first? 😭

I had a bit of trouble hearing exactly what was being said, but then again I don’t have the best ears. Usually has never been an issue for movies before, nor was for other Apes movies in theaters. Was just wondering if I was alone in this. Otherwise thought movie was well worth seeing in theaters and glad I saw it.

Did anyone notice any orangutans in the film other than Raka. The only ones I sore were the dead scarecrow ones before the bridge, that all looked to be orangutans. Proximus took Raka's village, so has Proximus massacred them all.