The Heinlein Society - Paying It Forward!

We just had a post from someone who wanted to argue, but seemed not to want to discuss. The post was aggressively challenging and the comments devolved into ad hominem almost immediately. The post and the person have been removed, but it was a good conversation, so anyone wanting to continue, here's a post for it.

I am currently reading Starship Troopers (reached page 100 today) and I still don´t really like it. The first time around I was swarmed by angry Arachnids (fans) because I only knew it from excerpts and reviews and thus "must be" a troll for criticizing it, which was not a pleasant experience. I think this is a very good review down below, sums up my thoughts pretty well. I just really don´t like the pseudo fifties with its child abuse, lashings and hangings (actually, they had abolished that barbarism in favor of the chair, and its really a barbaric way to go) and can´t sympathize with the people seeing it as some brilliant way of running a society. Its reactionary as hell. Not to mention I think the Mobile Infantry doesn´t care if it shoots civilians in the carnage of the beginning. Kinda ambigious, though I admit I am sometimes not the most attentive reader.

Anybody want to try to change my mind? I would like to have a productive discussion, or hell, maybe some Heinlein fans agreeing with me that parts of the book are distasteful?? I do admit it reads pretty well, or is that just because I am using kindle now?

Anyone who wishes to discuss these topics are welcome to do so but we do expect them to behave in a civil manner. Those who cannot will be tossed into the pool.

A classic 1958 sci fi movie based on(?) The Puppet Masters. The plot is all wrong, but they got the master slugs pretty accurate. The horror of being controlled. Plus that awesome 50s film vibe.

A rousing 16% on Rotten Tomatoes

Heinlein sued and got a $5,000 settlement. The screenwriter said he never read the book... which is 100% believable based on the plot.

Free with commercials on Tubi.

This is from the Feb. 5, 1925, Kansas City Post, via Newspapers.com:

https://posteezy.com/robert-heinleins-annapolis-appointment-article-0

There are ads on that site, and who knows what trackers or whatever are on there. I’m just too lazy to go through the signup process for a better system.

This news clipping is the first image I’ve tried to put on Reddit:

https://posteezy.com/robert-heinleins-first-wife

If I’ve somehow messed this up, sorry.

It’s just a nice photo of Curry from a Kansas City paper.

I know he used this word in one of his tales (I found it many years ago!), but for the life of me, I can't remember which one it was, and I've put my library in boxes so we can remodel the house. Can anyone help me out here? And it may be written without the N, so "gumpersaggles". Any help is greatly appreciated.

Wikipedia has Heinlein's "late" period beginning in 1980. Given the gap between Time Enough for Love in 1972, and The Number of the Beast in 1980, that makes sense.

But as far as topic, style, plot, etc., for me the real break is between The Moon is a Harsh Mistress in 1966, and I Will Fear No Evil in 1970. Up through Mistress, he was writing tightly knit plots. Glory Road and Stranger are both more fantasy than science fiction, but they are still very traditional story telling.

With Fear No Evil, he began to indulge his desire to explore wilder ideas. I understand that many people like his "later period" better than his earlier works. (I am a bit surprised, but I also think that anyone who loves any Heinlein demonstrates excellent taste, and is almost certainly a Fine Human Being.)

For me, nothing he wrote after Mistress comes close to being as good.

IMHO, Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land (astonishing), Glory Road, and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are his four best adult novels.

Podkayne is very good, but really a throwback to his YA fiction. Orphans is truly entertaining, but feels unfinished. Farnham's Freehold obviously has issues, but even setting those aside, it is not up with his best.

I'm 67 years old, and like many of you, Heinlein's YA books were why I fell in love with reading. Have Space Suit was my first, and there was no looking back. (Edit: big oops! I don't know how or why i typed TMAHM.)

I think maybe because I started with his YA and graduated to the others, my expectations were set in a certain way. I see posts on here by people whose first was Friday, Time Enough For Love, The Number of the Beast, etc., and they prefer those late period books to the earlier ones.

This is pure conjecture on my part, something that came to me while reading posts here. In any case, RAH was an inestimable gift to us all.

(Edited for clarity)

We are pleased to announce that the Winter 2023-'24 issue of The Heinlein Journal has been released. Your membership in the Heinlein Society entitles you to download this issue and any of Volume 2 (issues 25-31). You will receive your authorization code via the email address you have registered with the Society.

Issue Contents:

1. “You modern kids don’t get any education, do you?” Literary Allusion in Heinlein’s Juveniles

   An analysis of authors and works referenced in Robert A. Heinlein’s books for young adults, by Peter M. McCluskey

2. Heinlein’s Influence on Dating and Marriage Patterns in America: A Perspective

   Did Robert A. Heinlein singlehandedly change the course of human relationships in America? Do we have more multiple relationships, open marriages, transgender acceptance, and polyamory because of the books he has written? by Glen W. Olson

3. Fifty Years of Polyamory in America: A Review

   Book review: Fifty Years of Polyamory in America: A Guided Tour of a Growing Movement, by Glen W. Olson and Terry Lee Brussel-Rogers, by BE Allatt

4. Heinlein in the Comics

   A full, illustrated list of Heinlein’s works as interpreted in or adapted by comics and graphic novels, from 1950 to 2023, by John Tilden

5. Robert A. Heinlein to Ray Bradbury, August 9, 1940

   A letter between friends and colleagues, by Jonathan R. Eller

Really looking forward to rereading it.

If you could cast a screen adaptation of Stranger in a Strange Land, who would you want to play the main roles out of today's actors, or would you want unknowns?

Mike would have to be an actor no more than 30, but able to play both weak, skinny and naive, and also strong, well built and confident.

Jubal is "quite old" as he says himself, and no longer attractive, but you get the impression that he used to be. My first thought was Tommy Lee Jones but that may just be because of the accent and attitude.

I just don't know. I don't know many younger actors. I listened to the audiobook read by Christopher Hurt before I ever read it, so my idea of the characters, especially Jubal, are based on his voice.

We haven't had a written rule against piracy because it has not been an issue and it's a sitewide prohibition anyway. Reddit prohibits posting illegal content. But needs must, so here is an official reinforcement of Reddit's policy.

All of RAH's works are protected by copyright, and any adaptations of his work presumably are also protected. Please do not recommend piracy in this sub. This means no hints, no links, no suggestions, nothing. If you have found pirated content you wish to report, please send us a modmail here and we'll take care of it from there. I will be updating the rule later to include official contact information for reporting pirated content once I get it.

I am aware of four adaptations (or similar) of RAH’s works for the screen, large and small.

Starship Troopers: someone here recently recommended regarding this one as a parody, and I can’t disagree with that.

Roughnecks: I had forgotten about this one until u/Paint-it-Pink mentioned it in their comment. I enjoyed it a fair bit and it seems closer to the source material than the movie it is effectively a sequel to.

Red Planet: adapted as an animated miniseries by Fox in the early nineties. I remember it being pretty good but not how closely it reflected the book.

The Puppet Masters: Film adaptation with Donald Sutherland as the protagonist’s boss. I was actually pretty impressed with this film. Over an hour of the dialogue in the film is verbatim from the novel. In fact I think it deserves a second viewing soon.

Are there any other adaptations that you are aware of? Big screen, small screen, animated or live action, I’d just like to check them all out at least once.

What is your recommended reading order for all of his Future History stories? There seems to be a semi-complicated chart out there, but I want to hear from people. I'm thinking of starting with Revolt in 2100 and then The Past Through Tomorrow. For context, I've read Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, and just finished The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (if I understand correctly, the latter two have some connection to some of his other works).

Hi all, sorry about the newbie question, but I'm a huge fan of Asimov and Clarke (read and own closing in on 100 of their works combined), and yet somehow I have missed Heinlein! I started reading Asimov and Clarke as a teen, and I guess maybe i had that teenager "I've found my sci-fi authors, screw the rest" arrogance. Either way Heinlein somehow completely passed me by despite constantly being mentioned alongside my 2 loves as one of the big 3. I'm much older now so I'm happy to admit a certain sense of apprehension about diving in on a new author, but I'm keen to expand out (and also I feel guilty that I never once looked at Heinlein!)

Would love any and all recommendations about novels or short story collections to start with to get into the feel of his writing. (I know when someone asks me about Asimov there are definitely some stories I would recommend to newbies over others so there isn't a culture shock moment - mostly due to the time they were all writing I guess).

Thanks in advance, and apologies if I've missed a pinned post already explaining all of this.

I just read The Star Beast and it was much better than I expected.

If John Thomas had wanted to stay home but Lummox would not be persuaded to leave without him (since Lummox regarded John as her pet), should John have relented to leave as Lummox did in the actual story? I'd like to think that if Mrs. Thomas had persuaded John, Lummox would have been able to persuade him back. Or maybe she did in a scene we weren't privy to? I think the love between those two was underdeveloped.

Is the ability to manipulate fine objects really a good test of sentience?

Was Kiku really "an anarchist trapped in the wrong job", or just a really good bureaucrat?

Is the future interstellar government depicted a dystopia, or is it about a positive as we could ever hope for?

Many other questions come to mind but I'll stop for now. If there is interest, I can give some of my thoughts. In short, this is one of the deeper teen fiction works I've read.

If you happen to have a complete copy of the "Virgina Edition" [46 volumes] of Robert A. Heinlein you would like to sell, please email me at thirdgun at hotmail.com

Who else thinks the Heinlein intro to the "The Man Who Sold the Moon" (1949) is pretty great. That book is also 4 stories. I like that in one he dreams up Luna City.

This is not the place for discussion of current political topics. Nobody ever changes anyone's mind online and arguments get ratcheted up to incredible levels of emotion. Please keep this in mind when posting: we're not here for provocative gotcha posts. This kind of post/comment will be removed.

Politics can be discussed in so many other places. Please leave it there.

I just reread Puppet Masters (in the uncut version) and I'm really put off by how the protagonist treats his lady, Mary. He snaps and orders and decides things for her all the time (and this bombshell martial arts expert secret agent just says, 'Yes, Sam.') However this is not just old fashioned fifties mores because at one point a total stranger remarks to Sam, 'that's not how we treat ladies where I come from,' (to which Sam responds 'well why don't you go back there then.') It seems obvious RAH is aware of Sam's obnoxiousness, but this doesn't get any better. Sam develops in relationship with the Old Man, and finds his own authority, but he's still just as bossy to Mary at the end as in the beginning. Why does RAH portray him this way? What's the point of making him such an asshole?

I just finished Stranger and really enjoyed it. Laughed and had some interesting conversations with my roommate about different bits. The biggest takeaway and meaning I got was patience, thinking deeply to understand, the power and meaning of friendship real deep friendship. Relationships in general. (And religion is a scam)

I just want to see what other people gleamed from the story since I know I’ve missed certain meanings and messages. I just want to grok it’s fullness.

If he were a Hobbit, I guess it would be his eleventy-first?

I must say he's my favorite long-lived incestual libertarian time-traveling chauvinist self-insert character.

I've been having a vociferous argument with a fellow about this. He asserts that Heinlein used the word TANJ (from Larry Niven's books, There Ain't No Justice") several times in his novels. I'm maintainig that this never happened - I would have seen it and been surprised. I figure he's conflating it with TANSTAAFL. But, I'm willing to look for examples that prove me wrong. Has anyone here read a Heinlein character saying "TANJ"?