/r/ChristianMysticism
A place to discuss different perspectives of Christian mysticism, Christian mystical practices and theory, and Christian mystical theology. Our desire is to inspire healthy conversations to help each other grow in our spirituality, understanding of our faiths, and in our relationships to God.
A place to discuss different perspectives of Christian mysticism, Christian mystical practices and theory, and Christian mystical theology. Our desire is to inspire healthy conversations to help each other grow in our spirituality, understanding of our faiths, and in our relationships to God.
Guidelines:
Debate is welcome but insulting and flaming are not. If you are getting worked up or angry take a step back before you say something that you will regret.
This is a subreddit focused on Christian mysticism. Mysticism is not shorthand for esotericism, the occult or perennialism. Threads and comments that stray from Christianity into Gnosticism, the Occult, Dharmic religions etc and encourage one to follow these religions and spiritual paths are not allowed. Magic in all forms is strictly banned, including but not limited to: theurgy, chakra manipulation, divining, spells, etc.
This should go unsaid on a Christian forum. All forms of hatred are banned. This is up to the discretion of the moderators. This also goes for inter-denominational flaming, proselytism and things of that nature. This is not the place for sectarian infighting.
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/r/ChristianMysticism
Remembering my very first dream
My family has prophetic dreams, myself included. However, I still vividly remember my very first dream as a baby. Yes, I’m one of those odd people who remembers diaper changes, and yes, my family and I have confirmed these are not created memories. I do have memories of seeing other entities as a baby, but the older I got, the less often I saw them, and now it’s relatively rare.
Anyway, the dream, which I had for years until I matured enough to have fuller dreams, was this:
I was falling throughout the stars. Above me were stars in space, below me were stars and galaxies. I was just floating, falling into space, until I woke up. I had this dream every single night.
I would love to discuss this with like minds. Some of my family members on my dads native side joke that the dreams may be a calling, but I’m not sure what to think.
Please keep my recommendation in mind that you think of God often; by day, by night, in your business, and even in your diversions. He is always near you and with you. Leave Him not alone. You would think it rude to leave a friend alone who came to visit you. Why, then, must God be neglected? Do not forget Him but think on Him often. Adore Him continually. Live and die with Him. This is the glorious work of a Christian; in a word, this is our profession. If we do not know it, we must learn it.
Hey pals, I grew up Diet Evangelical™. Long story short, i grew up with the idea that I'm never good enough for God which is not a great mindset for a child to have. I've grown away from the church and really only consider myself spiritual but I've been getting into Christian Mysticism and almost take comfort in it? Like the idea of Saints and Angels really feel comforting.
I'm currently enrolled at a Catholic college and while I'm not entirely certain Catholicism is for me, I'm really excited to learn about St. Théodore Guérin and her work. One thing that draws me to religion is love and the love i can share for others (caring for them, donating, seving) Is there a good starting place for exploring Mysticism as a whole and (silly to ask or course) but there's always that innate fear that because I'm not worshipping right that hell is what awaits, could this be the case?
Lovingly signed,
Someone who fears God a very unhealthy amount and does not want to rot in hell :) <3
Diary of Saint Faustina - paragraph 20 - The Thin Veil
20 The next night I saw my Guardian Angel, who ordered me to follow him. In a moment I was in a misty place full of fire in which there was a great crowd of suffering souls. They were praying fervently, but to no avail, for themselves; only we can come to their aid. The flames which were burning them did not touch me at all. My Guardian Angel did not leave me for an instant. I asked these souls what their greatest suffering was. They answered me in one voice that their greatest torment was longing for God. I saw Our Lady visiting the souls in Purgatory. The souls call her "The Star of the Sea." She brings them refreshment. I wanted to talk with them some more, but my Guardian Angel beckoned me to leave. We went out of that prison of suffering. [I heard an interior voice] which said, My mercy does not want this, but justice demands it. Since that time, I am in closer communion with the suffering souls.
This entry from Saint Faustina's Diary reminds me that All Souls Day is drawing near, a day when we're called to pray for those souls saved in Christ's Divine Mercy but still bound to the pains of purgatory, a place where suffering and blessing ironically become one. Each soul in purgatory suffers the loss of God without knowing how long their suffering will last, but still knows that each day in purgatory from God's perspective on time, may be as a thousand years in the perspective of those poor souls. But the blessing for those souls is that each one's salvation is certain beyond doubt, whereas even the most pious souls on earth are not yet assured the salvation those souls in purgatory can look forward to.
There is a perspective on Purgatory that never came to mind until reading this entry from Saint Faustina's Diary though. Purgatory serves us in this world in a very Christological way, giving us the opportunity through prayer, sacrifice, and suffering to quicken the salvation of those souls. Not to save them since they’re already saved but to enjoin our spirit to Christ's Mercy so we become more Christlike ourselves. We are given the participatory grace of pleading and joining in God's grace for the dead, just as children may join their parents in feeding the poor, not because the parents need help but so the children learn charity as a moral responsibility in this world. In the same way, God leads us to a more spiritual responsibility for those souls in the world beyond, for those suffering in hunger for the bread of eternal life, rather than the bread of this temporal realm.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
Second Maccabees 12:43-46 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection. (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) and because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
When praying for the dead, especially my parents, I like to think they can somehow feel my prayers in purgatory, along with any additional mercy and comfort from Christ those prayers may bring. There is one portion of Saint Faustina's entry which seems especially encouraging about comforting those souls even while they still suffer, “I saw Our Lady visiting the souls in Purgatory. The souls call her "The Star of the Sea." She brings them refreshment.” Saint Faustina is telling us the souls of purgatory are not cut off from the souls in heaven and likewise, the passage above from Second Maccabees is telling us they aren't cut off from the benefits of our prayer from this material realm.
The veil between the realms of heaven, purgatory and our material world would seem to be much thinner than it appears to us in this world. Heaven and purgatory are both places of the spiritual realm whereas we in this world are the only participants from the material realm. I believe our material realm perspective blinds us to heaven and purgatory but I don't think souls in heaven and purgatory are blinded to our realm. I think souls in both heaven and purgatory, being of spirit, see through the veil more clearly than we can from our flesh, and that in addition to shortening their stay in purgatory, I think our prayers can be felt in purgatory even amidst their greatest suffering. It may be that those refreshments brought to them by Mary in their realm are actually the knowledge of our prayers for them from this realm.
Make two homes for thyself, my daughter. One actual home in thy cell, that thou go not running about into many places, unless for necessity, or for obedience to the prioress, or for charity's sake; and another spiritual home, which thou art to carry with thee always-the cell of true self- knowledge, where thou shalt find within thyself knowledge of the goodness of God. These are two cells in one, and when abiding in the one it behoves thee to abide in the other, for otherwise the soul would fall into either confusion or presumption. For didst thou rest in knowledge of thyself, confusion of mind would fall on thee; and didst thou abide in the knowledge of God alone, thou wouldst fall into presumption. The two, then, must be built together and made one same thing; if thou dost this, thou wilt attain perfection. For from self-knowledge thou wilt gain hatred of thine own fleshliness, and through hate thou wilt become a judge, and sit upon the seat of thy conscience, and pass judgment; and thou wilt not let a fault go without giving sentence on it.
Modern Day Christianity misses a lot by not paying more attention to the wisdom of genuine old school Christian Mystics like Saint Catherine. This entry reminds me of a sermon from a non denominational church decades ago. The tagline of the sermon was to keep one foot in our worldly realm and the other foot in the spiritual realm of God; the point being that we not get too attached to this worldly realm so we'll be more ready to leave it behind for the heavenly realm that awaits us. I liked that sermon at the time but after reading Saint Catherine's letters, I think it was too dismissive of our fallen world. Saint Catherine's letter goes beyond being spiritually detached from this troubled “veil of tears,” that we're stuck in until we escape into heavenly bliss. Saint Catherine brings them both together, joining our fallen worldly home to our spiritual heavenly home. She does this for our own benefit and to bless our dealings with others in this world, for the uplifting of our fallen realm now rather than our impending departure from it later.
Saint Catherine speaks wisely of two cells, or homes; one of which is the physical home in our material realm with the second being the interior cell “of true self-knowledge, where thou shalt find within thyself knowledge of the goodness of God.” Neither of these cells oppose the other though because she also tells us, “when abiding in the one it behoves thee to abide in the other, for otherwise the soul would fall into either confusion or presumption.” The outer cell, and our life in the material world are not to be considered as something we look forward to escaping from into heavenly bliss. But neither is the inner cell to become a place of presumed piety from where we look down on the more worldly part of ourselves that still lives in the outer cell, lest we fall into a frustrating position that Saint Paul once wrote of.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
Romans 7:14-15 For we know that the law is spiritual. But I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will: but the evil which I hate, that I do.
Saint Catherine removes all strife between these two cells, telling us they are to be “built together and made one same thing,” in what sounds like a spiritual type of checks and balances. Our temptation prone outer cell will stimulate the spiritual wisdom of our Christ centered inner cell which will then judge the worldly desires of the outer cell. In that dynamic we will gain the self knowledge Saint Catherine speaks of, a “hatred of thine own fleshliness, and through hate thou wilt become a judge, and sit upon the seat of thy conscience.” We will judge self first, more righteously than we can judge others and be less inclined to let our own “fault go without giving sentence to it,” rather than being eagerly inclined to give judgment, fault and sentence to others. If we judge inwardly first, by the interior voice of God, then righteous judgment shall reverberate from inner cell to outer cell and beyond, unto our neighbor. We will see the similarity of our sin to our neighbors' sin and with equal similarity, echo the grace we seek for ourselves to those who seek it from us, for the uplifting of this fallen realm now, rather than our escape from it later.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance: but judge just judgment.
I am very new to Christian Mysticism. (Studied yoga and zen for years in the past) I was wondering - are there any modern Christian Mystics / teachers like Meister Eckhart in this age? If you could share your knowledge that would be amazing.
What book would you recommend?
I'm really excited to dive deeper into Christian mysticism and would love some recommendations for my next read. I've already enjoyed Richard Rohr's "Falling Upward" and "What the Mystics Know." Any suggestions on what I should explore next?
Thanks in advance!
I recently started going through a divorce, and we separated for quite a few months. This broke me, and I went through a very dark time, and mental breakdown. I started experimenting with drugs. One Sunday morning I was watching religious Youtube videos as well as a video regarding the disbanding of the Satanic church in South-Africa. The whole day was fuelled by religious themes. Later the afternoon I found myself taking a very high dose (10g) of Mushrooms whilst listening to Gospel Music and thinking about God before the effects set in. The trip began normally, just seeing weird symbols, and other weird stuff. Pretty normal (I suppose) only a two time user.
A while after the music was super intense, and I started screaming, making strange sounds, and making strange gestures with my hands (as if casting spells in a anime or video-game) - I felt possessed, seeing through my own eyes through a 3rd person perspective. I was shouting in tongues, and laughing uncontrollably, as I was feeling the greatest form of joy, bliss, contentment and pleasure. I remember being extremely worried about my life but then being able to change my reality so that everything changes to what I needed and all was right with the world.
I remember shouting at the top of my lungs "I have found the answer!" I was convinced I was speaking to God, and at that moment It felt like I found the answer to life, and I understood everything. I was shouting and laughing for quite some time, until I had to go to the bathroom quick. After the break, I went into a manic, but still happy episode, and broke down the glass of my wife's bedroom cupboards, as I did not care anymore, nothing in that moment could make unhappy.
After breaking the glass, I fell over laying on top of the shattered glass, my hands and head bleeding.
Here I lay for about 3 hours experiencing the following. In this moment I died, but still had my consciousness.
My whole life's path was opened in-front of my eyes, and I had a beginning, and when I would get to a certain moment (or answer) in my life, that is when my life would end. The answer that meant the end of my life (as if I found the answer, which get's you one way ticket into heaven, as if life was a game everyone is playing, and when they find the answer, "they win the prize, which is eternity in Heaven". The answer I had to give was shouting "no no nooo you can't be serious, Jesus!, Jesus!, Jesus!"
Here my whole life started flashing in-front of my eyes. 1000's of moments, 1000's of days, all just moving back and forth, back and forth, as if my life was breathing. That's when I realized, we are breathed into life, by the mouth of God. Our whole past, individual realities, our whole life path and futures, every moment is created in that one breath. (Yhwh). My life in the vision looked like a story book of millions of pages starting at the beginning of creation, until the moment I died on the shattered glass. Here is when I felt eternal happiness for a few hours, I understood life, every bad thing that happened made complete sense, back and forth, back and forth, I went through my life, every moment felt like a second. (Like a breath) - and the end of this breath/book/story I could see new pages being created at a radical pace, which almost looked like a spiritual printing press, in the heavens (hard to explain). In the trip this is what God's eternity looked like, beginning & never-ending. I was part of that, and I was supernaturally happy, not even for one second did I feel any negative thoughts or emotions, no fear, only complete and utter bliss. This felt like I was getting a taste of what our feelings would be in heaven. Never-ending joy, as described in The Word. It was so cool, it was like telling a million people "I told you God was real" at the same time, and having the proof as well. My mind was completely blown. I won life. My reality was the correct reality.
After that it felt as if I was waiting for the ambulance or police to arrive, though completely conscious, but no control over my body, and dead at the same time. Shortly after this I came back to reality, and for a few minutes I thought I was in eternity, and I could go and enjoy my second life. However, after a few minutes, I realized I left the trip completely, and I fell into a depressive state, crying, and stressing about the glass and blood stains on the carpet. I could not make sense of anything I saw, I could not articulate how I felt, I forgot the answer, I forgot how to win the game.
This haunted me for a few weeks.
I then started throwing myself into Bible and prayer.
I don't know what to make of the vision, and whether or not there is any truth in it.
However, I do know if I ever want to feel that amount or even more joy, without the use of drugs. I can find it by following Christ and trying to be like Him, so I may enter Heaven. That is the only way.
I felt a great sense of responsibility of spreading the truth I've found in my soul, as I am certain my finger tip grazed holiness.
I have found responsibility towards God. My mind has not been calvinistically and apologetically aligned. I am constantly aware of God, and He is always on my mind. My guilt feels a lot deeper when I stray from the path, but I claw my way back, as it's something my heart desires very dearly. I view the Bible as truth, but I also now view it as a narrative masterpiece, filled with incredible lore. Everything is greatly interesting. Jesus's Sermon on the mount is in my opinion the greatest speech ever delivered in the history of man. Christianity is such a beautiful religion, and it makes so much sense in my heart, though I will never comprehend it. I don't want to, and I don't have to. In the end we are all driven by love. Love towards others but more importantly love towards Jesus Christ. It's such a simple though also very hard concept. I am exactly where I am supposed to be in God's plan... far or near from death, I wan't to enter the gates of heaven, and that should be all you want. To live in His Kingdom alongside Him.
I am forgiven and I am loved.
My childlike wonder of God's greatness now fills my heart, and even though I might still be anxious and depressed, starting to believe such as a child has belief in Christ, should be top priority in one's life. The heart of a child, with the mind of an adult.
Some may not agree with this, but I had to go through a lot of suffering, and hurt an abundance of people to reach this point in my mind. There is no other way out, and no other way forward. Christ is truly the only way.
Hi. Seeking advice or something, idk
Over my life, I’ve had visions and dreams. The meaning would usually either be obvious or would be shared with me soon thereafter. (Either understanding through prayer or through talking with someone.) For the most part, each one would have meaning. Except two visions and one dream.
One of the visions, I haven’t told anyone. Another, I was advised to ask a specific Christian about it who said she’d get back to me, then said she’d wouldn’t tell me. The dream, I think I understand the vague meaning of it. That being said, I don’t know if this has to do with something big I had gone through since then, or something upcoming.
I’ve prayed, asking God to show me what these mean, for years about this. I really want to understand, but so far I don’t.
I can’t talk to many people around me about this. When I’ve tried to address similar topics, the best I’ve gotten was confused nodding and smiling, even from pastors.
I don’t think I’ve fasted and prayed for wisdom about this (at least, I don’t remember doing so) so I may do that. I wanted to share this and see what some folks think who might actually get where I’m coming from
Thanks!
Allow me this momentary crisis moment please of genuine question. I love God and will always love Him and never abandon Him but currently struggling with so many why's and existential questions that churches would call me heretical for. And yes I know i am no one to be questioning God and this is probably prideful.
I was raised Catholic, but haven't followed in decades. I was recently researching many different faiths and paths, and began thinking about the Trinity as an allegory. The Father being the Creator; The Son being all physical reality (god manifest) and The Holy Spirit being consciousness and awareness. Is this what the Trinity is getting at??
Hello! I’m a mystic (not sure if I’m Christian anymore though) looking for suggestions on books. Doesn’t have to be Christian mysticism
Diary of Saint Faustina - paragraph 30 - Vision of the Trinity
30 On one occasion I was reflecting on the Holy Trinity, on the essence of God. I absolutely wanted to know and fathom who God is. In an instant my spirit was caught up into what seemed to be the next world. I saw an inaccessible light, and in this light what appeared like three sources of light which I could not understand. And out of that light came words in the form of lightning which encircled heaven and earth. Not understanding anything, I was very sad. Suddenly, from this sea of inaccessible light came our dearly beloved Savior, unutterably beautiful with His shining Wounds. And from this light came a voice which said, Who God is in His Essence, no one will fathom, neither the mind of Angels nor of man. Jesus said to me, Get to know God by contemplating His attributes. A moment later, He traced the sign of the cross with His hand and vanished.
The most intriguing mystery of Scripture may be the mystical union of Father, Son and Spirit into One Godhead, the Holy Trinity. I don't believe any person, including the greatest of mystics can get their lowly human perceptions around this great mystery. It's easy to explain as “three persons in One God,” but the spiritual dynamics of that are impossible to perceive.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
First John 5:7 And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
I don't think we have to figure out the Trinity intellectually and maybe we're not even supposed to. It may be that the contemplation of the Trinity isn't supposed to lead us to a more intelligent perspective on God. Maybe the contemplation of the Trinity is more about becoming more cognizant and appreciative of God's incomprehensibility over our limited understanding, to be wise in our ignorance and just enjoy being lost in the mystery of God. This is where the experiences and writings of great Christian Mystics like Saint Faustina always call to mind Holy Scripture.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
Psalms 45:11 Be still and see that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, and I will be exalted in the earth.
Saint Faustina was gifted by God with a very special wisdom of the spirit but even with that wisdom she expresses confusion in her vision. She speaks of a light that is inaccessible, and three internal sources of that light that she couldn't understand. She's lost in confusion before God and seems not to understand the trinitarian symbolism of the three internal lights until Christ mediates the gap and emerges from the inaccessible light of God, to bridge the abyss between God and man.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
First Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality and inhabiteth light inaccessible: whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and empire everlasting. Amen
After Christ's appearance, the vision ends in a puzzling way. Firstly, a voice from the inaccessible light tells Saint Faustina, “Who God is in His Essence, no one will fathom.” But secondly, just before mysteriously vanishing with the Sign of the Cross, Christ seems to mediate God's unfathomability, telling her to “know God” by contemplating His attributes. Saint Faustina has witnessed the Inaccessible Light of the Father, and the Son coming forth from the Father but where was the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit? I think the Spirit was in those last, teaching words that Christ left with Saint Faustina, in the simple contemplation of God's attributes, grace, charity and mercy, with the wise abandonment of all intellectual attempts at perceiving His essence. This was the Son coming forth from the inaccessible light of the Father, as in the Gospel, and leaving His Word with Saint Faustina, as with the apostles, to be revealed more fully in the light of the Holy Spirit, as with all those who pursue this simple, humble wisdom.
Supportive Scripture Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
Saint Teresa of Avila - Interior Castle - Fourth Dwelling Places - Poisonous Creatures
Poisonous creatures rarely enter these dwelling places. If they enter they do no harm; rather, they are the occasion of gain. I hold that the situation is much better in this stage of prayer when these creatures do enter and wage war, for the devil could deceive one with respect to the spiritual delights given by God if there were no temptations, and do much more harm than when temptations are felt. The soul would not gain so much; at least all the things contributing to its merit would be removed, and it would be left in a habitual absorption. For when a soul is in one continual state, I don’t consider it safe, nor do I think it is possible for the spirit of the Lord to be in one fixed state during this exile.
The poisonous creatures Saint Teresa mentions in this excerpt are temptations of one kind or another, still harassing souls in the more advanced rooms of the Interior Castle. In earlier entries about the first dwelling places of the castle, Saint Teresa also mentions these creatures but expresses more worry about them than in this entry. As we move from outer to inner rooms of the castle, closer and closer to God's throne room at the center, the poisonous creatures of temptation seem to get fewer and less threatening. And in a defeated kind of way, these creatures come to work in God's own interests, serving God in their last dying moments as weak, residual temptations that keep us spiritually sharp against sin.
Supportive Scripture Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
Psalm 118:91-92 By thy ordinance the day goeth on: for all things serve thee.
Without those last poisonous creatures tempting us, we might lax into a lazy spiritual self absorption, losing our humility and thinking to coast on our own merit into the King's Presence at the castle’s throne room. The fourth dwelling places are advanced but still not a place free of temptations and we should not expect such a place in this realm or, “this exile,” to use Saint Teresa’s words. Temptations are a part of our realm and although they shouldn’t be welcomed or thought of as good, Saint Teresa still finds use for our poisonous creatures as we near God’s light in these fourth dwelling places. Our darkest temptations wither against God’s light as we draw near His righteousness so even though we’re still tempted, those temptations are weaker and easier to resist as God's light shines on us more strongly.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
Malichi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name, the Sun of justice shall arise, and health in his wings: and you shall go forth, and shall leap like calves of the herd.
Malichi’s verse compliments Saint Teresa's entry because if we’re in the fourth dwelling places that Saint Teresa speaks of, then we’re close enough to God to be in fear or awe at His name, as Malichi speaks of. The fourth dwelling places are a turning point for souls because this is where our fear, or awe of God begins to eclipse our love of self. As self becomes small and God becomes large, then Christ the Sun of Justice dawns on us from the throne room of the Castle and Christ's radiance reduces the power of those last few poisonous creatures that still tempt us in these fourth dwelling places.
Christ's light strengthens our resistance to sin more than we realize but there remains one sin to worry about most in these fourth dwelling places, especially as the temptations of other sin wither in the Light of God. In our ego, I could see myself and others vainly crediting our own virtue as these temptations fall away rather than counting it as a grace that comes with our subjection to God. That would be typical of human pride going all the way back to Eden when our first parents rejected subjection to God by prideful delusions of their own godhood. These fourth dwelling places are less holy than Eden before sin had fouled our species and if Adam and Eve, living in the more holy place of Eden, could fall to sin through pride against God, then so can the most pious Christian soul in these fourth dwelling places. And once felled by pride, the womb from all other sin first came, that soul can next expect a quick return of all other poisonous creatures it had shed in the first rooms of the Interior Castle. The poisons of temptation will always attack a soul subject to self, but more quickly flee the soul more lost in subjection to God.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
James 4:7 Be subject therefore to God. But resist the devil: and he will fly from you.
Paul is clear when he proclaims the acts of the flesh include witchcraft, and throughout the OT there are warnings against divination, especially when consulting mediums and spiritists.
Therefore, is Stephanie Ike's new book on Dreaming biblical? Because receiving 'messages' in the dream-state (which Ike encourages Christians to do) is a traditional method that many mediums/spiritists often use?
When is prophecy biblical, and when isn't it? Given that the prophets were divining (telling the future), which has conventionally been described as witchcraft too.
Indeed, the boundaries seem blurred and I'm feeling confused about it... so I welcome anyone with thoughts and clarity to contribute... thanks! :)
We are born again not by intellectual but rather by mystical means!
I’ve been sitting here for about a half hour or an hour, trying to figure out how to even begin. I guess sometimes pure honesty gets the keys typing, or whatever.
Sometimes with me, strong emotions accompany random bouts of nausea. Like the nausea starts and the emotions follow it. Maybe it’s the the reverse of what I’m more familiar with because the body prefers equilibrium to extreme; this being a high accompanying a low instead of a low accompanying a high.
This giddiness through my throat, neck, chest, and torso, though.
Maybe it’s Pavlovian. (Maybe it’s Maybelline. LOL) But nausea isn’t the only thing that gives me this tangible sensation in my body.
When I hear the fluttering of cloth shaken close behind me, sometimes my body reacts as if my sister’s bird was still alive and was about to land on my shoulder and bite me again. (I like to think she saw my acne and thought she was helping me get my human feathers out 😆)
When I hear the first notes of certain songs, sometimes I feel like my chest has been emptied and my heart was spilled for anyone to see. (And I mean that in a good way; not like being exposed to danger, but being found by a loved one.)
When I feel the first drops of rain, sometimes I feel quiet in my bones as I remember that day God called me out into the rain.
Sometimes this sensation accompanies times of deep intimacy with The Eternal One.
The nausea has subsided, thankfully. (God gave Paul a thorn and other things, and God gave me my messed up gastrointestinal tract and other things, LOL.) Now I’m left with what seems like a rocket nozzle showering me in heat. Even though my brain can’t comprehend much more than “SENSATIONS! HORMONES! SENSATIONS!!!!!!” I’m trying to let myself sit with these feelings. Reminding myself that God speaks languages beyond words:
Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with groanings too deep for words. And God, who searches hearts, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Such a fire immense enough to consume me stands as my guard and my joy
I feel like that bush in Exodus; it couldn’t give the fire anything to feed or bolster it, but the fire remained
I get stuck in my own head so much. Sometimes it’s like the world is too complex and scary to be too close to. Sometimes I’m unable to convey what’s too large for my meager expressions. (Like trying to carry things outside and the door is replaced by a very small window. I can get some things out, but so many have to be disassembled to be so very small when it’s actually so massive.)
The burning flames almost have a smell
Of camps and songs
Of rest and togetherness
Of cleansing and provision
Of quests to set the prisoner free
Of cauterized soul wounds
I still understand so little
The fire lacks nothing, and I can give nothing
Nothing but myself
Nothing but my mistakes
Nothing but my victories
Nothing but every ounce of what I am
Nothing but a string of babbling words
A branch for the Flame to dance on
A humble platform so that whoever has an eye may see
A rusty instrument so that whoever has an ear may hear
I posted this in a different Christian group, but then I found this one and thought I might get better answers:
I'm a Christian. I'm very afraid of death. I have spent a ton of time trying to "prove" Christianity. And I've found Christianity to be at the very least extremely reasonable to believe, and the most probable. But the anxiety over death still hits me really hard sometimes. I don't know how I could face death if I needed to. This recent time I decided I would stop relying on so much intellectualism and arguments, and really seek a personal experience with God (not that I've had none whatsoever, I do pray and read the Bible regularly and attend church and am involved). I've heard so many people tell of how they've had experiences like this, and I believe them, but I feel like there is something about having the experience yourself that makes you so sure. I think this is what Paul was getting at when he talked about his message not being based on "plausible words" but on a "demonstration of the spirit and power". What I actually want is to have something like a vision, a dream that I know is from God, experiences of healings or words of knowledge. My plan for seeking these is just to spend much more time with God (starting with 2.5 hours a day), specifically asking for these things everyday, and to be much more open to people, serving them, to praying for them to be healed and asking God to give me what to say to them, and to continue to grow in personal holiness (which God has done great things in me over the last year regarding). I have a couple of people I follow that I trust aren't heretical and have a right view of these types of experiences and see them regularly. I'm thinking I could also study the Christian mystics. I'm just wondering here if anyone has gone on a similar journey and seen results? It just seems like the people that are most sure and that I most admire, yes, they have a solid grasp on the arguments, but they also have profound experiences that maybe can be questioned by outside observers, but not by the actual experiencer. God does say if you seek him you'll find him right? Feel free to pray for me as well! I'm intending this to be a journey for the long haul, as I recognize it may not come easy. Thanks!
I know now that Chinese ancestor rites is now considered fine to do by the mainstream Catholic Church but as someone of Southeast Asian origins, in my house my parents put plates and cups of food and drinks in front of the Crucifix and Mary statues at the home altar and other religious arts across the house.
I'm wondering if a mortal sin is being committed? I know that priests are known to tolerate a similar practise by poor people across Latin Americans doing it in private in their residence. So I'd assume this is not necessarily outright idolatry? Especially with Chinese ancestor Rites having good offerings done in front of deceased relatives?
In particular how does it go when done with intercessory prayers asking for petitions from the figure featured in the particular artwork being used?
The Feast of Tents is a Jewish festival, but it also has significance for the Christian mystic in that when God subjected his people to live in tents in a wilderness, it would meant that he too will have to subject himself to live in tents in a wilderness. As our Lord said, do unto others as you wish to do unto yourself (Matthew 7:12).
For the Mystic, this world is a wilderness because God is not as common as we would want him to be. Of course we know God is omnipresent, but the majority of earth's populace feel as though they are abandoned by God, empty of divine life and distant from him. God coming to dwell in our tents (physical bodies) is what brings our awareness to be aware of God; When God decides that it is time for him to dwell in you - herein lies the significance. And this experience is the beginning of our journey on the path to theosis.
Thanks to u/atoriuslacomus for the idea to make this a separate post.
"If someone causes you trouble, think what good you can do for the person who caused you to suffer." — St Faustina
So God talked about doing things when He said “don’t murder the guy who knocked your tooth out, just take his tooth.” Christ talked about doing positive things when He said “God doesn’t only love the lovely, so no one has an excuse to play favorites.” But at the beginning of the 20th century, there came along a pretty run-of-the-mill Polish lady championing the idea of thinking positively towards those who do us ill?
Surely this can’t be a sound approach! Didn’t James wrote that faith without works is dead? Did St Faustina have some reason that she chose to write about thinking good as opposed to doing good?
Seeing as how she’s not on this sub and she’s not returning my texts (LOL) this is where I’ll admit I’m taking a guess. My guess is that St Faustina wrote explicitly on thinking good as opposed to doing good due to an understanding of how emotions/mental state/etc play a role in our actions (and by extension, a role in how easy or difficult it is to follow Christ in love and life.)
One of the reasons I think she was right on the money is how in many places in the Bible (Proverbs 4:23, 2Cor 10:5, etc) it speaks on the state of our thoughts playing an important role in our actions. (I mean, when’s the last time you’ve been around someone who’s lashed out in anger seemingly out of nowhere? Did that 100% come from whatever action immediately preceded it? Or did you learn that their angry outburst was an accumulation of anger stored within the mind and heart that all jumped out at the straw that broke the camel’s back? Thoughts play a large role in our actions.)
So not only is St Faustina’s statement acknowledging the importance of thoughts, I suspect she recognized some things about people:
And when you have someone who’s been wronged/hurt/etc, that’s going to come out somehow. Heck, perhaps she even recognized a tendency in herself to not only lash out when angry (as any human would,) but to lash out on people far removed from what was so aggravating in the first place. Goodness knows I have.
So if that seed of angry thoughts is replaced by kind thoughts, it seems logical that a different fruit would be borne. Rather than the instigating incident(s) resulting in an angry word, couldn’t a seed of kind thoughts help a harvest of kindness to be brought forth instead? Even if you’re not following through on the kind thoughts for that person (by choice or inability,) you could end up following through on kindness towards others (whether intentionally or not.)
And as I write this (and I got this general feeling from parts of the original post that inspired this post) that perhaps St Faustina intended this suggestion as a first step. I mean, if we’re to follow Christ’s call to “turn the other cheek,” can that be done before working on the reflex to go for their eyes?
In Dialectical Behavior Therapy, starting with teaching the brain to have healthy thoughts in low-stakes situations helps the brain to get more used to having healthier thoughts during high-stakes situations. So starting with the thought process and not going to outward action makes sense as a beginning step. (I’m not sure if/to what degree setting up healthy thinking is in the closely related field of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, though.)
TL; DR, I believe when St Faustina wrote about thinking how to help people do who is ill, it was both a step 1 as well as advice on what Derwin L. Gray later recognized:
** If you never heal from what hurt you, you'll bleed on people who didn't cut you.**
Diary of Saint Faustina - paragraph 1760 - Spiritual Warfare 1
If someone causes you trouble, think what good you can do for the person who caused you to suffer.
In paragraph 1760 of Saint Faustina's Diary, Christ teaches her much in the execution of spiritual warfare. The above excerpt is just one teaching from that paragraph, which like many others goes against the grain of human nature and the negative spiritual dynamics at work in our fallen world. All of us, non-Christians included, can appreciate the piety of what Christ speaks of here but I don't know anyone who actually reacts that way if a rude guy cuts us off on the freeway. At best we might try to forgive that person but none of us actually try to think of some kind act we could do in response to his rudeness. We would interiorly agree with the excerpt but in the moment of testing, fail to release its grace, releasing anger and bitterness instead and multiplying the negative spiritual dynamics of our world even more.
It's also curious that Christ stops short of telling us to actually carry out the kind act, telling us instead to just “think” what good we can do for the offending person. I think Christ intends this as a step by step spiritual exercise to be practiced religiously and interiorly at first so our reflex reaction to sin against us becomes more akin to His gracious reaction to our sin against Him. Christ is calling us out of self and into Him, away from the thoughts of men and into the Mind of Christ, where the “good you can do for the person who caused you to suffer” reached divinely perfected results on the Cross of our Redemption.
Supportive Scripture - Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
First Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
By making a religious exercise of pondering the good we can do for those who offend us, we can trick our mind out of the knee jerk reaction of anger and vengeance. That's still not entering the Mind of Christ so deeply as to become Christlike in the sense of saving men from their sins but we'd at least be more out of self and into the outer regions of Christ's Mind, and hopefully, moving deeper from there. Our offending neighbor would be forgiven, our soul would be at least somewhat purified of offense and we will not have added strife or resentment into the mix of spiritual dynamics at play in our world.
Supportive Scripture -Douay Rheims Challoner Bible
Romans 12:14 Bless them that persecute you: bless, and curse not.
When I think of all that though, I suspect it might feel kind of weird at first. If I were to actually practice this exercise instead of just write about it, I think I might suffer something akin to a spiritually allergic reaction because it's so counterintuitive to my normal fallen world reflex. My heart sees the wisdom in this but in the moment of offense my fallen world mind aggressively asserts itself so I'd be forcing myself to exude good will upon my offending neighbor through gritted teeth and against my own will. But that would still be trivial compared to Christ forcing Himself to submit to the scourging, the crown of thorns, the carrying of the cross and the crucifixion. He didn't really want to have to do all that for me any more than I want to exude a kind wish for someone who offended me much less than I did our Savior.
Christ doesn't tell us to take it to His level though. He only asks for a baby step, just putting our foot in the door to “think what good you can do for the person who caused you to suffer.” If we do that specifically in Christ's name, we supernaturally empower our little grace with Christ's supernatural divinity. We lift our offending neighbor out of our judgment and move ourselves one step deeper in the Mind of Christ. Most importantly though, we exude the spirits of grace, charity and mercy into the world, to subdue and defeat the prevailing spirits of judgment, greed and vengeance.
Abba Zeno of the Desert Father's
If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies.
I am 28 and I had quite a faith journey the last decade. My faith started small and simple, but in my opinion that was a necessary start. Then I moved into the complex phase (speaking in Brian McLarens terms), where I started to research how I could become a better christian, within the preset boundaries of my faith tradition. A few years ago my perplexed phase started, where I would find information that didn't fit into my small faith world. I started asking more and more questions until I realized that by knowledge alone I wouldn't find a certain perfect truth. Now I recognize that I am at the frontiers of contemplation. My question is, is this the end station? What comes after the realization that everything is connected in Christ? Will the searching end? What is your experience?