Allegedly the originally plan for Cordelia in the fourth season was that she would have been corrupted by power and ego after being a Higher Power in season 3 and would have gone evil of her own free will thus becoming a reversal of the Angelus story line in season 2 of Buffy.

Would this had been better than the unplanned Jasmine story line in season 4 or was it better than it was Cordelia possessed by Jasmine rather than having Cordelia betray Angel on her own

Dears, I am looking for a long lost Spangel fic where Spike chained Angel to the bed and left him for hours listening to 'The Sounds of Music' soundtrack. >D

The fic was at least from around 2005 - 2010s and in general was quite funny and entertaining. Maybe someone read it or has an idea who might be an author. Thank you!

Really, this literally was like "let's just show any random blonde hair and let's pretend it's Buffy".

I just watched it and I've gotten like ?? 🤔

Then I read on the internet the series got cancelled. I was expecting a real closure which it isn't something that didn't happen on the Buffy series and this kinda feels disappointing since this didn't happen here either and I wanted more.

Also it's kinda sad that Angel is the only one left of the original cast since Doyle, Cordelia and Wesley are gone, they killed even Fred (I wonder why they spared Gunn from this).

I've liked the Angel series even more than the Buffy ones BUT I think they went downhill since the moment they moved to Wolfram & Hart and killed Cordelia. I feel this series would've lasted more if they stayed in the Hotel and Cordelia came back as her and she didn't get killed.; the Hotel brought so many nice plots and could've brought even more.

I've loved the series but this last season has left me a bittersweet feeling I wasn't expecting to have.

I always wondered how Oz knew where to go when he left or like who he got in touch with to send him in the right direction. I'd like to think he spoke with Angel for help. Any thoughts?

I'm re-watching Angel for probably the twenty-seventh time, but the first time since I was a teenager. Last night got to season 2 and enjoyed the hotel episode as I always have, but with new perspective.

Without spoiling anything, it occurred to me that this episode could be a thinly veiled allegory for the Emmett Till lynching. If that's even a little bit true, it kind of gives me the ick. But for its time, maybe it was a good idea?

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but at the end when the bell hop is all "where is everybody going? it's just a... a..." and then he trails off before running away. It's just a lynching, is what it is. That pointedness struck me as intentional.

EDIT: I can read the very clear McCarthyism, just thought I could perceive layer underneath it.

Contrary to popular belief, I liked Angel a lot as a character in Buffy but not sure I like him in his own show. I've just finished the first season and I gotta say I am not in love with the show. It has its own good moments but overall, I think it's average. But yeah, I remember feeling the same way about Buffy season 1 and it eventually got much, much better. Does Angel also get much better after season 1?

Edit: I think I might have worded this incorrectly, it's not Angel as a character that I don't like in the spinoff, it's the writing and plot. Season 1 has been really boring so far.

On the Disney + app, this image of Cordelia, Angel, and Gunn shows between every episode. I don't recognise it though. Does anyone know if it was from an episode? Maybe it was a promotional shot or a deleted scene or something they decided to use.

Do you still remember the episode? And if so, is there a particular reason?

Angel’s would say something like: I brood. A lot”

Lorne’s would definitely be a lyric from some song

I’m S5 of BtVS and S2 of AtS and there’s like a million heartbreaking events in between - but do we ever see Angel cry on either of the shows? If it happened I would’ve thought it would’ve been in I Will Remember You or somewhere in the Darla arc.

Is this DB just being macho man or am I just looking at this 90s show with a 2020s lens?

If it was today 100% they would’ve had the men of the Buffyverse cry over something.

I haven't watched past "Carpe Noctem" so no spoilers please.

My God they really didn't do the story justice in "That Old Gang of Mine"

things I had issue with

• After working with the team for at least 1 season and being pretty friendly and chummy with Angel, Gunn suddenly decides he can't be friends with a vampire with a soul? Give me a fucking break.
• Gio really wasn't written well. There was so little depth or backstory to him besides "let's kill some demonz lulz". It felt like lazy writing. There was a hint at a backstory when Lorne started saying something but they didn't go nearly far enough into exploring it.
• They really made Rondell look like a moron. This dude who was all about protecting the innocents and all that suddenly can't look at the Gio and see how flawed Gio is? Especially with Gio acting so idiotic and high on murder? He suddenly didn't see an issue with terrorizing humans?
• Another comment I saw on here that opened my eyes to something. Gunn's old gang went from a group of homeless people just struggling to survive to just a straight up black gang suddenly. Rather disappointing.

It's just so disappointing cause the dilemma of shades of gray is a timeless and important story, especially in a show that is all about the explorations of different kinds of demons, but instead a bad-written villain pretty much ruined it to me.

The only saving grave of that episode was that Wesley really is coming into his own and asserting authority and wisdom and that also came through in this episode.

Watching Angel series for the first time and currently finished 5x12. WTF DID THEY DO?! they just ruined the whole series in a single episode, seriously it's hard to even keep watching now.

The worst is that I was looking on internet about her dead and I've been accidentally got spoiled about the death of another character. At this point I'm not sure if it's even gonna be worth continue watching the show because this is non sense.

Vampires take at least some of the personality of the person they turn into vampires right?

What exactly was it about liam that made him into such a particularly sadistic and cruel vampire?

Like all vampires (outside of the soul boys) are evil but there are different levels for example harmony is "evil" but compared to other souless vampires she's harmless lol

What personality traits did the demon take from liam that made angelus such a particularly evil vampire

I liked season 2 but Season 1 is my favourite. In Season 1, Angel/Doyle/Cordelia friendship dynamic and then Angel/Cordelia/Wesley dynamic were well done and you can see their relationships move in clear stages from acquaintances to friends. We all so see a separate friendship dynamic between Angel & Cordelia.

After a lot of rewatches these are my thoughts:

1. The first part of the Season 2 spoiled the dynamics it created in season 1 so that they can advance the Darla plot. Except for episode 1 Judgement, the dynamic between Angel/Cordelia/Wesley changed to acquaintances. Wesley and Cordelia somehow didn't think something weird is going on with Angel. This is so unlike Cordelia who now thinks Angel as a family. Starting with the Epiphany episode, their relationship moves back to close friends/family dynamic which is jarring.
2. I know a lot of people like Darla episodes but after several rewatches I find that even after returning as a human with soul she didn't seem to feel guilty for her past actions as Angel did. Even considering this depends on the individual, it was only Angel who was projecting how he felt after cursed with a soul on to Darla, she was just doing what W&H wanted her to do. After finding out that she is dying she tried to use Angel to turn her. He went to such levels to keep her human and living but all she wanted was to became a vampire again even knowing that she will be soulless and do the things she once did.
3. This is a fun spot on and rather silly. In shroud of Rahmon, both Wesley and Angel comment on Cordelia's hair. Angel asks when did this happen and why no one tell him about it, I was thinking why would Cordelia would tell him that she cut her hair/changed style or is he sarcastic here?
4. In Reunion, I assume Darla & Dru were able to enter Holland's mansion because some human invited them the same as Angel. Are you telling me that Hollands didn't take any precaution in his house and trained his staff and wife regarding supernaturals? After extensively knowing about Darla and Angelus, he still underestimated them? He didn't use any W&H demon/vampire safeguards in his own house?

Please no spoilers past season 2.

was there writing or production issues for season 2?

they had been teasing all season that Wolfram and Hart would drive Angel over the edge and turn him into Angelus again but that storyline seemed to peter out after Angel sleeping with Darla didn't do it and Lindsey left town. Felt like Wolfram and Hart just kinda gave up. At last in the prime universe.

the season finale instead randomly took place in the green dude's universe, which I am not entirely complaining about since Amy Acker's character is a joy to watch but just seemed like an odd bait-and-switch and I can't tell if Whedon and Co got writer's block with continuing that storyline or they just delayed it till a later season or something else happened behind the seasons that made them change course?

I’m making an art piece for every episode of Buffy and Angel. You can check out the rest here.

Rewatching Slouching towards Bethlehem today and noticed Wesley say, “I could care less what Angel thinks.” which gratingly reminded me that Denisof is not British. Any other examples where he, or the script writers, messed up?

That wishes they kept the more “case of the week” noir style of season 1 and 2

Don’t get me wrong I love seasons 3, parts of 4, and 5 but there was something about that first two seasons that I just really liked and wished they kept more of that

For me personally, A Hole in the World shatters my heart every single time. I’m on “Smile Time” in my rewatch and am not mentally ready for what comes next. What’s your most painful episode?

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Hi all! First time poster. My wife did all of Buffy a year or so ago. Started Angel soon after and life got in the way.

Recently picked it back up (3x06) and is now on 4x11. ALL I WANT TO DO is get to Season 5. I remember the back end being a slog, and once Cordy goes into the coma, I don’t know (or remember) how much is really that rewarding.

Can anyone give me/us a watch/skip guide from 4x12 on? I’d love to just go to the finale, call it a cliff’s notes version and get started on the new management of Wolfram and Hart. Thanks!

Does anyone else get this but me? Just her confusion and the way she snaps at them. Like the “Russian Spy” joke feels very Buffy.

Even in performance. I find it very funny.