/r/althistory

Photograph via snooOG

Welcome to /r/althistory, the alternate history subreddit! Here you can discuss alternate history matters, whether they be books, essays, TV shows, movies, or podcasts.

Common Acronyms and Phrases:

  • AH stands for Alternate History.
  • WI stands for What If.
  • OTL stands for Our Time Line, history as it happened.
  • ATL stands for Alternate Time Line
  • POD stands for Point Of Divergence or the point at which a fictional timeline diverges from OTL.
  • ASB stands for Alien Space Bats, referring to alternate history so implausible it would have required the intervention of "alien space bats."
  • ISOT stands for Island in the Sea of Time, the S.M. Sterling novel which popularized the idea of transporting people and places to a different time period. ISOTs are, by their nature, always ASB.
  • DBWI stands for Double-Blind What-If, where OTL history is examined from an AH perspective. ex: "What if the Soviets put the first man in space?" asks a character from a timeline where the USA put the first man in space.
  • The butterfly effect, where small changes accrue over time to significantly alter events.
  • Counterfactual histories, the scholarly version of alternate history.
  • Wank, refers to when a nation is made unrealistically powerful.
  • Scew, the opposite of a wank.

Related Subreddits:

  • /r/HistoryWhatIf: An alternate history subreddit dedicated exclusively to answering traditional what-if questions.
  • /r/AskHistorians: Direct any questions about actual history to this excellent sub.

/r/althistory

13,056 Subscribers

1

Bay of Pigs Success?

I was wondering what would be the long term ramifications if the bay of pigs invasion was a success and Cuba was liberated from communism?

The scenario I was thinking of would be, that they went with the original plan with the invasion of Trinidad, the conflict drew into a stalemate and though operation Northwood the US invades and liberates Cuba.

What do you think the long term responds would be by the soviets? Would they become more aggressive with spreading communism around the world? Would China go to full war with the USSR during the Sino soviet split? I'd like to know your guy's thoughts on the potential long term effects.

1 Comment
2024/10/31
23:20 UTC

2

What if Brazil adopted Distributist Economic Policies in the 20th Century?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism#Economic_theory

How could this have affected Brazilian history, economic development, politics, foreign relations, etc?

POD = Instead of the rise of Getúlio Vargas and his government, a strong Distributist movement emerges instead, gaining traction among Catholic intellectuals, labor unions, and rural communities. This movement would be inspired by the writings of Catholic social thinkers like Pope Leo XIII and G.K. Chesterton.

(On a side note; I considered making a ''Distribust America'' after the Great Depression alternate history timeline for the USA but that is probably unrealistic sadly....)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vargas_Era

0 Comments
2024/10/30
21:38 UTC

3

What if Madagascar adopted a Distributist Economic Model after Independence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Madagascar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism#Economic_theory

How could this have affected Madagascar's socio-economic development, history, politics and international relations? Instead of adopting a socialist or capitalist economic model, a charismatic and influential leader, like a Malagasy President, could emerge, advocating for a distributist economic system. I think this would be quite popular with the Christian population of the country because Distributism is based on Catholic Social Teaching and Distributism's Social Theory I believe would be well liked by the more religious elements of the country - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism#Social_theory . And also this could get significant popular support, particularly among rural communities and the urban working class. A distributist Madagascar would offer a unique and interesting economic development path different from capitalism & socialism.

Point of Divergence: The 1960s to 1970s

1 Comment
2024/10/30
14:54 UTC

3

What if the Black Sea and Baltic Sea were Connected to a Larger Caspian Sea?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/11o3w5r/how_would_history_gone_like_different_on_this/

What if Black Sea had **3** choke points? The histories of the various Baltic Islands would certainly be interesting. I am guessing there would be a lot of alternate mass migrations e.g. the Indo-European Migrations might be slowed down into Europe and be different with let's say Germanic speaking peoples settling the Balkans, while Celtic Speaking peoples settle in Italy, Greece and Anatolia or Anatolian speakers end up in Iberia for instance. I do expect more Pre-Indo-European speaking ethnolinguistic groups to survive though. I would love to see an ethnolinguistic map of this timeline's Europe, Caucasus and Iranian Plateau. Denmark Island might have a pretty fascinating pre-indo-european speaking civilization imo like the Paleo-Sardinian Nuragic civilization. Maybe Paleo-Balkan speakers such as the Greeks/Dacians would be in the Caucasus and Anatolia. The Slavs might end crowding around the larger Caspian Sea, Eastern Europe east* of the baltic-black seas connected waterway* and on this timeline's Baltic Islands.

How could this have impacted history, cultures, languages, technological developments, social dynamics, economics, demographics, politics, geography/geopolitics, prehistory, protohistory, civilizations, religions, plant life, animals, fashion/clothing, cuisines, writing systems, climates, etc?

POD - During the last Ice Age, glaciers could have carved out deeper channels or lowered land bridges, allowing for the connection of the three seas.

0 Comments
2024/10/29
23:47 UTC

6

What if Algeria got independence in the 1860s? How would the country develop socially, politically, and economically? And how would this affect the development of France's Colonial Empire in Africa?

So in an alternate history scenario I created a few years ago the British side with the Union and the French side with the CSA during the Civil War. As a result the Civil War turns into a global war, with Britain liberating Algeria from France's rule with Morocco's and Abd al-Qadir/Emir Abdelkader's help.

If this were to happen, how would the country develop socially, politically, and economically? Would Algeria become independent or would it be ruled by Morocco? And how would this affect the development of France's Colonial Empire in Africa?

Sources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoricalWhatIf/comments/15up0x9/what_if_the_british_sided_with_the_union_and_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryWhatIf/comments/15uoxay/what_if_the_british_sided_with_the_union_and_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

0 Comments
2024/10/29
18:33 UTC

2

What if Francisco Solano Lopez was in Charge of Argentina?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Solano_L%c3%b3pez

How could this have affected Argentina's history, politics, international relations, demographics, economic development, etc? This Argentina would be more militarized, economically protectionist and nationalistic at least.

What if he was the President of Argentina instead of Mitre in an alternate timeline?

0 Comments
2024/10/29
10:05 UTC

5

What if USA had focused on training and arming Afghan women against the taliban.

Seeing this news about Afghanistan, i wonder whether Afghan women would've put up a much better fight given the fate awaiting them.

5 Comments
2024/10/29
03:02 UTC

6

What if the Sweet Dew Incident Coup Succeeded?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Dew_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Wenzong_of_Tang

How could this have affected Chinese history, international relations and politics? Sadly I doubt this would have permanently stopped the downward spiral of the Tang Dynasty's decline, but I do think it would have temporarily given Tang China some breathing room to centralize power around the Tang Emperors and more time to crack down on the power of the Jiedushi too maybe.

0 Comments
2024/10/26
22:17 UTC

8

What if the Native Americans had horses along with other livestock and developed from nomadic tribes into massive, wealthy and highly advanced empires that were on par with many old world nations by the time Columbus came to the new world in 1492?

And yes, I know that civilizations like the Mayans and Aztecs developed into empires in our timeline, but they were VERY late into the game.

16 Comments
2024/10/26
00:26 UTC

2

What if a Negrito Civilization existed in History?

Point of Departure; Bronze Age

What if the Negritos of Southeast Asia and the Andaman Islands built a large-scale thriving civilization early on in history? such as adopting agriculture and metallurgy early on in history. Also it would have advanced shipbuilding and navigation skills to become a maritime trading civilization of various Negrito States and Negrito Complex Farming Cultures (It would probably resemble a possible ''Papuan Civilization'' https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/what-if-a-papuan-civilization-existed-in-history.553266/ or ''Taiwanese Aborigine Civilization'', https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/what-if-taiwanese-aborigines-created-an-extensive-and-durable-civilization-on-taiwan.553268/ ) I am not fully sure how would this have affected Austronesian Expansion, maybe the Austronesians would be less dominant in Southeast Asia?

How could this have impacted history, borders, cultures, languages, technological developments, social dynamics, economics, demographics, politics, geography/geopolitics, prehistory, protohistory, civilizations, religions, plant life, animals, fashion/clothing, cuisines, writing systems, etc?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negrito

0 Comments
2024/10/23
20:09 UTC

3

Could have the allies won an Operational unthinkable like scenario?

I think yes, but there are some parameters that we need to set, now the first and most important parameter, the population of the allied nations must be enthusiastic to continue the war, this is the biggest stretch of the imagination because the population of the allied nations were pressing hard for an end of the war in 1945 and they likely would have not liked to fight another war so soon after the end of such a massive conflict, especially against a former ally, but for the sake of argument let's argue that the propagandist manage to instill the will to fight the soviets in the population, Second parameter the starting date for the operation should be around late spring/ early summer of 1946, because before with the war in japan still going on and the relocation of forces that followed the allies would be stretched and disorganized, and in late spring/ early summer the weather is favorable enough for several months of campaign.

Why i think that in this scenario the allies would have won?

  1. PRODUCTION the US industrial might was just getting to max efficiency by the end of the war, let's also consider that to fight the war with Japan Huge amounts of resources were being expend on naval vessels, for instance the us Produced from 1st January 1944 to 31st December of the same year, 2 Battleships, 7 Carriers, 3 heavy cruisers, 11 Light cruisers, 33 Escort carriers, 80 Submarines, 76 Destroyers, 179 Destroyer escorts, more than a 1 Million tons of steel just for the fighting ships, if Used on tank production this number would get you around 30 thousands M4A3 Sherman or around 20 thousands M26 Pershing.

Now of course this is not a 1:1 conversion and there are a lot more factors in production other than steel, but it illustrates how powerful the US industry was at the time.

  1. MANPOWER while it is often said that the URSS had limitless hordes of soldiers to throw at problem this wasn't true, the soviets by the end of the war were encountering manpower issues and were in always struggling to find troops to send in the assault, and while the UK and France had this problem the US had sent only a limited amount of it's population to the front line and so could (If political will was there) find a lot of manpower, there is also the fact that after the end of the war with Japan the allied nations could find a lot of manpower in the naval units that would be disbanded.

  2. NUCLEAR WEAPONS while often overstated the importance of nuclear weapons in an eventual Allies vs URSS scenario must be assessed as a decisive advantage that the allies had, the allies would have the ability to destroy important centers of communications and logistics which would be devastating for the soviets essentially with impunity.

In conclusion while such a conflict would be as devastating as the eastern front was for the germans in 1944 the allies were likely to win this conflict albeit with pretty devastating losses.

1 Comment
2024/10/22
13:30 UTC

8

What If the Diggers won the British Civil Wars?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers

How could history, economic development, social dynamics, politics, foreign relations, etc be affected? They would need a Brilliant Military Commander sympathetic to their cause who is hostile to the Royalists for them to win at least. This would have resulted in a Proto-Socialist republic with Quasi-theocratic tendencies probably and with more egalitarian distribution of wealth & resources in Britain.

7 Comments
2024/10/21
01:29 UTC

5

What if the Caspian Sea was connected to the Gulf of Oman and Arabian Sea by a deep, Natural Navigable Body of Water?

How could this have impacted history especially Iranian history and the history of Eastern Arabia, cultures, languages, technological developments, social dynamics, economic development & trade, demographics, politics, geography/geopolitics, prehistory, protohistory, civilizations, religions, plant life, animals, fashion/clothing, cuisines, writing systems, etc? Since it is navigable, it would have improved connections between Central Asia, Iran and Eastern Arabia helping to bring about more trade and linguistic/cultural contacts. Dasht-e Kavir would be more greener with grassland and probably woodland around it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasht-e_Kavir#/media/File:Map_iran_biotopes_simplified-fr.png . Then again it depends on the width of the waterway let's call it the ''Kavir-e River''.

POD - And this navigable body of water emerged in prehistory predating recorded human history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Oman / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Sea / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Iran#/media/File:IranOMC.png

0 Comments
2024/10/19
11:55 UTC

3

Taborite Victory - The Order Of The One-eyed Žižka

Hi there folks,

I'm attending a party next week in Vicenza, Italy. The theme of the party is 18th century. Initially I thought I would just do some kinda simple Byronic romantic poet look - I guess most of the other guests will go that direction - but I decided to try something out. Recently, I've learned a little about the Hussite and Taborite uprisings in Bohemia in the 15th century, and I find it all fascinating. So, I decided to construct an alternate history of Europe wherein the Taborites succeed and manage to keep control of Bohemia all through the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries.

As many of you will know, one of the great Taborites leaders was Jan Žižka, the one-eyed military genius (actually became blind and continued to be successful). My character is a member of an elite corps of the Bohemian military, or a sort of chivalric order, named "The Order of The One-Eyed Žižka". I am planning to be an Englishman (as I am in real life) who has travelled to Bohemia so as to join the Order (a true believer). I will be wearing a tunic and cloak, with a chalice sewn onto the cloak, to symbolise the equality of all people (the communion bread and wine given to both laypeople and clergy).

Jan Žižka

I'm thinking that Bohemia would operate under something like what the Taborites were going for - a kind of anarcho-communism (tho they would of course never have used that term), such as the early church looked like. So, all things in common, egalitarianism, the virtue of simple living. Perhaps the centuries would have tempered the passions of the original Taborites (to accommodate it to be statewide), but I would like it to have retained the core principles.

What would the existence of this state mean for the rest of Europe?

Territorially, I was wondering if it should be a proselytising state, conquering Moravia, Silesia, parts of Bavaria, or if it would be content to keep Bohemia alone. Either way, what are the ramifications for the neighbours? I like the idea of the house of Habsburg being the great foe.

I am also wondering what I have to keep in mind, if I am saying that this proto-reformation was successful, almost a century before Luther's theses. For example, the second defenestration of Prague would be unlikely to happen there, which means the Thirty Years' War would not be triggered (at least, not in that manner).

My intention is actually to convince people at this party that a Taborite Bohemia did indeed exist through those centuries (let's see how convincing I am after a few goblets of wine), and even perhaps that the order still exists to the present day.

Your thoughts in general (including costume suggestions) would be much appreciated!

0 Comments
2024/10/18
15:32 UTC

2

What if it had been the Europeans who were infected with disease when they came to a America instead of the Native Smericans?

1 Comment
2024/10/17
11:22 UTC

1

What if the Fertile Crescent was a Sea?

How could this have impacted history, cultures, languages, climates/the weather, technological developments, social dynamics, economics, demographics, politics, geography/geopolitics, prehistory, protohistory, civilizations, religions, plant life, animals, fashion/clothing, cuisines, writing systems, etc?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_Crescent

In this alternate timeline: Mesopotamia wouldn't exist, Carthage/the Phoenicians would not exist, the Babylonians & Assyrian civilization wouldn't exist and the Levant wouldn't exist so Sumer and other civilizations there are butterflied away, Egypt would be more isolated from Middle East except for the Hejaz region in Arabia and the North Arabians & Western Iranians would have developed shipbuilding/boatbuilding as well as fishing cultures. Perhaps some North Arabians would have become the Vikings of this ''fertile crescent'' sea or Crescent Sea... Anyways, I can some Arabians raiding into Egypt and occasionally establishing new Dynasties there and there might be more Arabians too in this alternate Sinai as well. In the Bronze Age, instead of Indus-Mesopotamia relations we would see Indus Valley-Dimun relations instead especially with maritime trade being more prominent. The piece of land that connects Arabia to the Iranian Plateau (let's call it the ''Kuwaiti Corridor'' would be a place for technological and cultural exchanges from mainland West Asia to the Arabian Peninsula to happen and perhaps a Battle of Thermopylae-esque battle might happen at some point there once an Expansionist Iranian Empire like the Achaemenid Empire arrives and clashes with the Arabs in a series of wars I would call the ''Perso-Arabian Wars''. The Monotheistic Abrahamic Religions would either be delayed or just never exist at all, so the Jews would either for example reside in Arabia or be butterflied out of this timeline. Also Southern Anatolia, the Indus Valley and Western Iran would be predominant as centers of civilization

0 Comments
2024/10/17
09:47 UTC

2

What if India was given Dominion status during the interwar era?

So I know a lot of people are saying that the reason India wasn't given Dominionship was because of a combination of greed and racism. However, given the growing sympathy for the people of India, the post-war economic recession Britain was going through and the sacrifices India had made in WW1, what if India was given Dominion/Home Rule status on the grounds that they had earned it for their contributions to the British War Effort and that it was becoming to expensive to maintain as a colony? What conditions/factors would be necessary to make this scenario possible?

And if it is possible how would Dominion status be implemented? Would it be gradual or an immediate process? Would the Indian princes get any say in the new government [Like their own House of Lords]? Would reforms be made to the Indian Civil Service (ICS)? And how would the new government be structured to represent India’s various cultures and religions?

0 Comments
2024/10/17
02:06 UTC

5

What if the Itza Mayan Kingdoms of the Peten Basin and Belize became British protectorates? How would they develop economically, socially, and politically under British rule?

So in the OTL, the Spanish conquered the last of the Mayan Kingdoms of the Peten Basin (Ex: Tayasal) and Belize in the 16th century.

But what if the British placed the Mayan Kingdoms of these regions, under their protection? And in return they would provide logwood, mahogany, and other agricultural products? How would they develop economically, socially, and politically under British rule?

Source:

Spanish conquest of Petén - Wikipedia

Nojpetén - Wikipedia

0 Comments
2024/10/14
18:26 UTC

5

Where does Earth restart from?

If civilization was destroyed due to ice age, nuclear winter, disease or the internet, which countries would bring civilization back first?

4 Comments
2024/10/12
17:58 UTC

0

What if the Island of Great Britain didn't Exist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain (What if the Island of Great Britain didn't Exist today?)

POD -A geological event, perhaps a catastrophic earthquake or a prolonged period of intense erosion, could have caused the landmass that is now Great Britain to submerge beneath the sea in prehistory.

Without Britain; Spain, France, the Netherlands, Germany and also Ireland would be more powerful in European geopolitics and global politics, so perhaps France would be the first European country to industrialize. I am not sure if Ireland would be a prominent colonial power on par with the British, but I do think they would have more influence of course on the world plus they would likely follow Celtic Christianity. Portugal wouldn't exist and France would unify earlier without the Hundred Years War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Christianity

4 Comments
2024/10/12
14:16 UTC

2

Completely hypothetical post WW3 map im working on for a writing project

Have near to zero knowledge of the actual socio-geopolitical climate of most of these regions just went my own route here. Been doing a lot of world building in my free time and wanted to get some peoples thoughts on this one.

https://preview.redd.it/6gphe1c628ud1.png?width=7030&format=png&auto=webp&s=d72efa74feabde3c816bdaf011e286296123ca0b

0 Comments
2024/10/12
00:42 UTC

5

What if the Kingdom of Mutapa survived and Modernized?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mutapa (Have Mutapa survive till the Present - The Mwenemutapa endures until today) To survive and hopefully thrive: Mutapa would need to adapt by completely consolidating it's political structure to avoid infighting/civil wars in the future, maintained control over it's gold mines, adopt guns and cannons on mass, avoid vassalage to the Rozvi Empire, beat back the Portuguese and diversify it's economy for example to include agriculture, trade, and potentially manufacturing. With a strong economy and strategic location, Mutapa could have become a dominant force in Southern Africa. Mutapa might have evolved into a constitutional monarchy, balancing traditional leadership with modern governance. Mutapa just like the Ethiopian Empire would also be a hotbed for anti-colonialism/anti-european imperialist resistance in the 20th century which would increase it's prestige on the continent of Africa role in promoting pan-African solidarity and cooperation. Mutapa would have largely preserved it's traditions and perhaps it could also focus on education and human development so that it could have a highly skilled population and a strong knowledge economy in the modern era. Also a longer lasting Mutapa Kingdom or Mutapa Empire could or would have revived the tradition of stone buildings and constructed impressive cities, now known as 'zimbabwes', throughout it's territory like the Rozvi Kings did - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozvi\_Empire#Technology\_and\_economy.

How cold history, politics, technological advancement, international relations, economic development, demographics, etc be affected in this alternate timeline? https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Mutapa

4 Comments
2024/10/10
11:33 UTC

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