/r/WarCollege

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Credible military history and science.

Our Purpose

/r/Warcollege exists is to educate about and discuss military history, from the ancients to Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Ukraine Hybrid War.

Questions, essays, interesting links, or book reviews about a topic are welcome here. Share a military history video! Post that essay on the Battle of Jena, or teach about a nation's style of warfare, discuss the upsides and downsides of infantry doctrines through the ages.

Participation comes first, and you don't have to be an expert to answer a question asked (as long as you can provide sources when asked; we have a handy guide as to how to write an answer here).

Subreddit Rules

Rule 1: Questions should be focused on military history and theory.

  • r/WarCollege exists to discuss settled military history, doctrine, and theory. We do not do not accept posts discussing events less than one (1) year in the past, as information about these events is still very fluid, hard to verify, and difficult to discuss with our expected levels of rigor.

  • We do not permit posts speculating on or questions asking for speculation on future events. Questions about current doctrine are permitted, provided they are not speculative about the future effects or implications of said doctrine. E.g. A question or post describing how the United States has prepared for a potential peer conflict with the People’s Republic of China is permitted. A question asking about how such a peer conflict would play out is not permitted. If such a conflict were to break out, questions or discussion on the conflict would not be permitted until one year after.

  • We do not permit hypothetical posts. This includes “what-if” questions, alternative history, or counterfactual scenarios. These questions are inherently unsourceable, and invite subjective answers that do not meet with our expected levels of rigor. Confine these to the weekly trivia thread.

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  • Submissions to r/WarCollege must be related to military history, doctrine, or theory. Submission must be on topic for r/WarCollege, given our subreddit's stated purpose.

Rule 2: Be polite.

  • Discussions in this subreddit will almost certainly involve debate and disagreement between users, and you should be ready to agree to disagree. Posts and responses should be polite and informative.

  • Overly combative posts or responses are not permitted. Users should make their points succinctly and politely and focus on engagement with others’ arguments.

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Rule 3: Questions must be asked in good faith.

  • Questions and responses should be made in good faith. Posts or comments which are attempting to push a specific viewpoint rather than engage in discussion are not permitted.

  • r/WarCollege is not a forum for modern political debate. It is especially not a place to rail against one’s political adversaries. Posts or responses that are nakedly political will be removed and repeat violators will be banned.

Rule 4: Submissions must have a submission statement.

  • Posts to r/WarCollege are expected to encourage and further develop discussion. Non-text submissions must include a comment indicating a topic of discussion for the post.

Rule 5: Answers to questions must be well researched and in-depth.

  • r/WarCollege aims to host a higher level of discussion for military history than would normally be expected on reddit. Answers should be in-depth, comprehensive, accurate, and based on good quality sources. Answers should involve discussion and engagement, and not simply be a block quotation or link elsewhere. Answers based purely on speculation or personal opinion are not permitted.

  • Users are expected to be able to provide sources for any statements or claims they make on request, and be able to discuss the context and limits of any source provided. Use of tertiary sources (i.e. Wikipedia, pop-history podcasts and videos) is permitted for certain undisputed facts, but reliance on tertiary sources alone is not sufficient. Personal anecdotes do not qualify as sources. No use of AI for any reason.

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16

What were the differences between urban combat on the Eastern Front vs in China during WW2?

I’ve tried to find material on urban combat in China during the 2nd Sino-Japanese war but have failed to do so. What were the similarities and differences between it and the eastern front (if any)? Were the battles like Stalingrad, Kharkov where it was brutal house to house fighting? Or more like the battle of Kiev (1941) where maneuver was used?

0 Comments
2024/12/03
00:34 UTC

1

When the Germans retreated to the Hindenburg line, how vigerously did the Entente persue, and how did the process of establishing their own new line opposite the Hindenburg play out?

0 Comments
2024/12/02
01:35 UTC

28

Does defensive air-burst ammunition endanger ground troops?

My question is, does defensive air-burst ammunition from weapon systems like the Oerlikon 35mm anti-air gun, with their proximity fuse rounds that fire tungsten balls in a spherical pattern, actually endanger ground troops or civilians on the ground?

My thought is that these tungsten balls are fired in a spherical pattern, so naturally some fire straight towards the ground and all do eventually end up on the ground.
Can they still cause injury on humans on the ground, once they end up impacting there?

With drones being an ever growing threat, you can see these kind of proximity ammunition becoming more widely used as defensive measures.

I couldn't find any info on that, so I hope you guys have an answer to this.

11 Comments
2024/12/02
13:49 UTC

48

Are there any gun mounts on fighter or attack aircraft that aren't fixed, but rather somewhat aimable/moveable?

As far as I am aware, the guns mounted on basically all fighter aircraft are rigidly fixed in place, only shooting straight forward along the one vector extending out ahead of the aircraft on which they are sighted. In order to adjust the aim of the gun at all, the heading of the whole aircraft itself must shift.

Are there any relatively modern fighter or attack aircraft for which this is not the case i.e. that have any even 'low off-boresight' gun targeting capability? I wouldn't expect to learn of any gimbal-mounted guns like on attack helicopters or old bombers' turrets, but are there any aircraft where (for example) the gun is aim-able independent of the aircraft's heading at least within a limited cone around the boresight vector? It seems possible that for dogfights (in the era where they were still expected to often happen and involve gun kills) or for attack runs, even relatively low-off boresight gun targeting, especially with some amount of computer/radar control, could have been an advantage.

I assume its an uncommon (or never) seen feature because of the added weight, complexity, etc. for what is certainly at least today the 'sidearm' of fighters. But as a complete layman I'm wondering if this was ever a feature of any fighter or attack aircraft in history.

17 Comments
2024/12/02
05:06 UTC

1

Shell production, industrial capacity and war of attrition in Ukraine

Hi everyone. I wonder how can one assess a "real" industrial possibility of a country/an alliance in case of war? I will clarify my question

At the outbreak of Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 it was a very widespread idea that although Russia had advantages in short terms, the West will just help Ukraine win the war in longer terms due to West's much larger industrial capacity.

Different GDP figures in relation to each other were given, but I wonder whether one can try to assess country's industrial capacity with these statistics.

It seems that Ukrainians are still undersupplied of artillery shells, and all the EU countries combined can not deliver enough ammunition, whereas sanctioned Russians could outmatch them in this regard, so in fact Russia wins war of attrition, not Ukraine

So I think my question can be this: Why did Ukraine's partners failed to bring much more artillery shells then Russians? I invoke this question not to stir some discussion shaped by politics only, but trying to understand some economics behind it also. One can argue that NATO just did not try to produce these shells although they claimed otherwise, it was just a hypocrisy; but this answer seems to be a bit dull: with industrial potential much larger than Russia's one, it wouldn't take much commitment anyway.

P.S. If I am wrong in my assumptions (like whether Russia actually produced more artillery shells then Ukraine) feel free to correct me, because nowadays the media are just so full of contradictory and unreliable information it is just very hard to navigate oneself. And sorry for many mistakes in English, I'm not a native speaker

3 Comments
2024/12/02
01:45 UTC

19

Funding military operations using non-legal methods

I just read how a French Colonel, Roger Trinquier’s operations in 1952-1954 in Indochina, and how the his GMCA teams (Groupements de Commando Mixtes Aeróportés) were funded.

Turns out, Trinquier bought opium from Meo (Hmong) tribes, and sold it to the Bing Xuyen (a military faction that dabbled in criminal activities), for later distribution in Saigon.

Using this money, Trinquier was able to have his GMCA teams to train and organize over 20,000 indigenous fighters against the Viet Minh.

Hence, is anyone else familiar in how non-legal methods have been used to fund legitimate military actions?

6 Comments
2024/12/02
00:30 UTC

4

Is it worth reading Max Hastings, or is his work primarily pop history rife with myths and simplifications?

On good reads his books have glowing reviews, in addition some large newspapers have written very highly of his work. But I have also seen some serious criticism of him. Accusations of plagiarism, instances of his writing indicating a lack of knowledge of the topic.

24 Comments
2024/12/01
21:09 UTC

32

How were non "aryan" members of the SS recruited, indoctrinated, and treated during WWII?

The SS recruited men from the Cossacks, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Albania, Bosnia, India, and more. These ethnic groups were not high on the racial hierarchy of the Nazis, and many were marked for death like slavs from Russia and Ukraine. How did they recruit men from these groups and how were they indoctrinated and justified in Nazi ideology? Also, how did SS soldiers and leadership that were considered higher on the race pyramid feel about serving alongside these troops? Was there ever infighting?

10 Comments
2024/12/01
21:18 UTC

6

How does the suspension/hydraulic system of the Type 10/K2 work?

https://preview.redd.it/25lds25rua4e1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5aa054e62e10f8e21999592b254849d98fb5a545

The cool thing about the Type 10 and the K2 is that they can rise or lower their "posture". However, there isn't much literature about this. How does the suspension/hydraulic system of the Type 10/K2 work?

6 Comments
2024/12/01
20:48 UTC

37

Has an elastic defence ever worked?

Famously the Germans practised elastic defence in the great wars, and it failed to lead them to victory. Is this a typical outcome for elastic defence? Seeing as one tends ye employ it when one is trying to preserve manpower and is at some sort of tactical or strategic disadvantage to begin with?

12 Comments
2024/12/01
20:39 UTC

19

What was the US Army’s assessment/after action report of what went right and what went wrong at the Battle of the Bulge

Be reading Blood Dim Tide by Gerold Astor and was wondering; especially since it seems the Germans overwhelmed GI positions mostly just with wave after wave. According to the accounts in the book.

10 Comments
2024/12/01
19:33 UTC

9

Were there Civil Affairs Officers in past conflicts like WW2 or Korean War? How does the role/job duties during those conflicts compare to the role of Civil Affairs Officers in Iraq and Afghanistan of recent years?

2 Comments
2024/12/01
19:10 UTC

83

What are the military capabilities that France and the UK have but Italy does not possess?

Other than nuclear capacity and far flung territories/colonies, I can't think of anything. Gotta wager Italy is on their level of military capabilities (maybe not spending so much though).

12 Comments
2024/12/01
18:35 UTC

19

Why was the Russian civil war a free for all ?

5 Comments
2024/12/01
17:55 UTC

2

How did the Soviet(USSR) VDV or Soviet Airborn Forces operate in Afghanistan?

I was just curious as to the tactics employed by the USSR VDV during their war in Afghanistan.
How were they deployed?
Why were they deployed?
Logistic framework.
Compositon?
Skills?
Anything and everything that anyone might have a mind to share.

0 Comments
2024/12/01
17:35 UTC

6

Are there any books about Turkish war doctrine/tactics?

Don’t seem to find much online

4 Comments
2024/12/01
17:09 UTC

0 Comments
2024/11/30
16:27 UTC

8

How do submarines in a USN Carrier Strike Group coordinate with surface combatants

How would a CSG's attached attack submarine communicate with the rest of the strike group? I suppose there must be at least one way, yet I cannot understand how stealthy communications are possible in a combat enviroment.

Thanks for reading & answering!

6 Comments
2024/11/30
23:28 UTC

10

The US Army Jungle Warfare School in Panama was closed on 1999. What month did the last training session take place?

I have been trying to find in the internet about the last training session that took place in JOTC in Panama before it was closed forever. Anyone here knows what month did the last session training take place before the closing of the infamous "GREEN HELL"?

5 Comments
2024/12/01
11:24 UTC

10

Why US Coast Guard was moved from Departament of the Treasury to Departament of Transport in 1967?

US Coast Guard was a part of Treasury until 1967 when it was moved to Dept. of Transport. What was a logic behind moving it in first place and how much it affected Coast Guard as a whole? There was opinion against transfering part of US Armed Forces from already established position in the Treasury to the newly created Dept. of Transport middle of Vietnam War as well as Dept. of Transport having a lot of other administrative duties?

1 Comment
2024/12/01
12:35 UTC

7

Pure Armor Battalions vs Combined Arms Battalions

From my knowledge, currently the US Army doesn't have any pure armor battalions (just tanks, no mechanized infantry). There are two types of combined arms battalion:

Armor CABs:
2 x Tank Companies
1 x Mechanized Infantry Company

Infantry CABs:
2 x Mechanized Infantry Companies
1 x Tank Company

From my limited knowledge, I would imagine this structure is conducive for fighting low level/capability adversaries but won't be the most effective against a near-peer/professional adversaries. This is because a CAB don't have the highest armor and firepower requirements when it's fighting very old tanks/armored vehicles or none at all and just uses tanks to assault and lets the mechanized infantry insert the troops. However, against an pure armor battalion with equally capable tanks as yours, having CABs would be a draw back since it will lack the necessary firepower and armor. All in all, I would put my money on a pure armor battalion in pure armor vs CAB.

20 Comments
2024/12/01
05:34 UTC

24

Is there any doctrinal theories/experiments on the use of anti-submarine weapons as anti-torpedo defenses, since they are both designed to destroy underwater craft?

This question is so oddly specific because I encountered a relatively mindblowing outside-the-box thing today. I downloaded a game about Cold War era naval combat and was hunting a submarine. Standard stuff, torpedoes were in the water, but my ASW ships started firing salvos of anti-submarine rockets at the torpedoes, destroying them. My mind has been split ever since.

On one hand it seems like such a "video game", "that's not how real combat works" thing, like constantly diving prone and getting up to go faster than running, yet the basic idea seems simple enough once the "anti-submarine weapons are only for submarines" assumption was broken. If submarines, manned underwater vehicles, can be mission-killed or sunk by throwing explosives into the water, why not unmanned underwater vehicles, which is essentially what torpedoes are? More technically speaking, I don't see how the kill chain for anti-torpedo defenses is that much different than anti-submarine ones: you are still hearing the noise of the craft or the sonar return off them, and you are still calculating their location and hurling explosives to that location.

I can't imagine that this tactic is based on a real, let alone successful engagement. My understanding is that "modern" naval combat is exceedingly rare, hence the appeal of yet another Cold-War-Gone-Hot style game in which yet another developer gets to answer the "How exactly would X missile fare against Y countermeasure" question in their own work of fiction. As such, I can only imagine that this anti-submarine-weapon-as-improvised-active-torpedo-defenses tactic is based on a military journal article, old doctrine that never saw use, some sort of experiment or exercise, etc.

13 Comments
2024/12/01
00:54 UTC

19

Why were seperate color coded war plans developed for Canada and the British Empire?

Shouldn't it have been assumed that an invasion of Canada under Plan Red would have automatically triggered a war with the British as entailed by Plan Pink?

5 Comments
2024/11/30
23:32 UTC

19

Save for minor things like iron ramrods which the Russians has as early as the 1720s, infantry weapons changed very little from ~1700-1840

Light infantry:

The French fielded Miquelet skirmishers and the Imperial Army Grenzers as early as the 9 Years War/Great Turkish War. While they were predominantly armed with muskets, the French experimentally issued the best shots in the companies rifles during the War of the Spanish Succession though only during the Italian Campaign. While the Russians did issue stuzer rifles to officers and musicians during the Great Northern War as personal defence weapons, dedicated rifle armed Jaegers wouldn't be formed untill the 7 Years War. Russian line officers would replace the stuzers with musket and bayonet as a result of the 1737 Turkish War.

Up untill the Revolutionary/Napoleonic era when skirmishers were more heavily used to support line formations, light infantry were mostly dedicated specialists sometimes consisting of mostly ethnic minorities such as France's "Arquebusiers of Russilon" which descended from the Catalan Miquelets and the Imperial Pandours who were predominantly from Croatia or Slavonia.

By the Napoleonic Wars, most Western light infantry were divided between riflemen and light infantry who skirmished with muskets. Rifles were not a new technology by any means by this point, and even as late as 1840, these predominantly remained flintlock.

Line infantry:

The 1690s was a mad scramble to replace match with flintlocks. For the Imperial Army, match/flint hybrids started production around 1684 because the line musketeers and dragoons were facing flintlock armed Janissaries and Tufecs. For the French, this was because of the dissappointing performance of matchlock armed line musketeers against mostly flintlock Anglo Dutch infantry at Steenquerque. The Spanish even started procurent miquelet flintlock/match hybrids during the 1680s although we don't know as to what extent as matchlocks weren't abolished untill 1702.

By the 2nd half of the 1690s, socket bayonets were introduced. The French introduced a spear pointed variant sometime during the 9 Years War as they showed up in contemporary prints as early as 1695, Brandenburg/Prussia was using them by 1698 as per contemporary portraits of Lieb Grenadiers, and the Imperial Army had their own which was a plug bayonet soldered to a socket mechanism by around 1700 although this probably means the late 1690s.

Save for an improved lock for safety reasons, the combination of flintlock and socket bayonet effectively remained unchanged into the 1840s.

2 Comments
2024/11/30
23:08 UTC

32

Is there a good, publicly accessible investigation or Redditor explanation as to the role of the Su-57 in Ukraine?

Question as per the title, I suppose. It’s something in which I’m curious, but hoping to be directed to either an external link or a post on here.

Of course, their limited numbers are going to be a factor, but - even if Russian statements as to the effectiveness of the Felon are way overstated - it should be substantially more capable than anything in Ukrainian Air Force service.

9 Comments
2024/11/30
22:37 UTC

78

Has there ever been a conflict where Americans were actually the underdog?

I know it's popular in the American imagination to view themselves as the underdogs, but looking into it, it seem like America has had advantage In most of the major war's they've been in,

In the Revolutionary War, they were financed by France (and later Spain), while the UK was dealing with five separate globe-spanning conflicts, In WWII, the average American soldier was much better paid than any other military on the planet. The average American private was paid $50 a month, while British privates received $12. An American sergeant out-earned most low-ranking officers of other countries, they were also better supplied, they had more money to throw around and more of basically everything. Including certain consumer goods like cigarettes, coca cola, chocolate etc that were dear in most of Europe at the time.

48 Comments
2024/11/30
21:52 UTC

68

CIA recruitment during the GWOT

I was watching Zero Dark Thirty and I’ve got a question.

There is a scene where Jessica Chastain’s Maya gets approached by James Gandolfini who is playing the CIA Director in a cafeteria and they discuss how long she has been in the CIA.

Maya says that she was recruited directly from high school and the CIA director asks if she knows why. Maya said something like “I don’t think I’m allowed to answer that.”

I know there is likely a significant amount of artistic licence in the movies, but did the CIA recruit direct from high schools during the GWOT?

Furthermore, why wouldn’t Maya answer the director? It seems like it’s a joke that people should know, but I don’t get it.

I know that there was a significant amount of artistic licence

20 Comments
2024/11/30
21:51 UTC

156

Why did Afghanistan have a far lower US casualty count than Vietnam?

Just something I was wondering recently

70 Comments
2024/11/30
18:59 UTC

0

Question about guerrilla warfare in the modern day?

What do you do with your phones? Cuz you can’t bring them out to the jungle/mountain with you due to tracking concerns, yet you can’t just go awol on cellphone for day on end

8 Comments
2024/11/30
02:49 UTC

1

Terrorist Org Alliances: Is this a thing?

Hi all

Going down a bit of a rabbit hole tonight and was curious if anyone can point me to some texts that outline, or just explain to me, if there are any alliances between certain terror groups? There are a few points that I AM aware of here–Taliban shielding AQ in Afghanistan, IS being AQ offshoot, and the obvious illicit backdoor state sponsorships– but I was more so wondering if there were more surprising connections that are more so unknown? Possibly even trans-regional/intercontinental? Multi-hemispheric? (don't even know if this is a word)

How do these relationships come about and how are they symbiotic outside of congruent ideologies?

I obviously have this image in my mind of a South Park-esque "evil group summit meeting"

Thanks for any and all info!!!

4 Comments
2024/11/30
09:28 UTC

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