OK. You're Lizzy Bennet. You are the second of FIVE sisters. Your life is comfortable; you are the daughter of a gentleman with a nice income.

But - YOU have no dowry except the 1/5 share of your mother's 5000 pd jointure - and you won't get that while your mother is alive. You spend most of your time in your hometown, with occasional visits to your uncle - your uncle in TRADE - in Cheapside. No Season, no socializing with your 'peers'.

Face it, the men aren't beating down the door with marriage offers for you and your sisters.

I am not saying Lizzy should have married Collins. OR accepted Darcy's insulting proposal.

But the older I get, the more I'm wondering - where is her head at? She knows (she MUST know) how dangerous her position is. Sure, her father is healthy, but he's at least in his 40's and accidents happen. Any day, she and her sisters could end up out of their nice home and in the care of - the Gardiners? They have children of their own.

WE know (since she's the heroine) that a rich man will eventually fall in love and sweep her off her feet to his grand estate. (Unlike Charlotte who grabbed for her gold ring)

Am I wrong or is she completely impractical?

Comparing Austen's comparison and contrast between Emma and Miss Bates. I never noticed that Miss Bates is described as specifically not having the thing that Emma is described as having in the famous first sentence!

I also like that the things she points out are subtle, as it traditionally takes 2 reads to understand this story, so you don't want stuff spelled out

I already read all the books in german before and now I would love to try and read them in their original langage. But I'm not completely sure, if I would understand everything and that's why I'm asking, in which order I should read them now. What do you think is the easiest book to read? Also I would prefer to not start with Persuasion or Northanger Abbey, since they were the books I read last.

Has anyone of you ever read a well-written continuation of Sanditon or The Watsons? I watched the TV series Sandition; I liked the first season but did not enjoy the second season.

I'm struggling to understand a line at the end of Northanger Abbey. The passage is:

"Henry was now sincerely attached to her, though he felt and delighted in all the excellencies of her character and truly loved her society, I must confess that his affection originated in nothing better than gratitude, or, in other words, that a persuasion of her partiality for him had been the only cause of giving her a serious thought. It is a new circumstance in romance, I acknowledge, and dreadfully derogatory of an heroine's dignity; but if it be as new in common life, the credit of a wild imagination will at least be all my own."

I understand most of this but what does the last line mean, about common life and a wild imagination?

They like flirting constantly.

Mr Collins did like the idea he seduced Charlotte and she has fallen in love.

Just for fun, share what alternative ships you think are the best and what alternative ships you think are the worst. The characters in the ship can be from the same novel or different novels; you can also do same-sex couples if you want. You can also make the worst ones as crazy as you want!

Let me begin with my answer:

Best: Anne Elliot and Mr. Knightley

I feel that these characters share many similarities and are also compatible. Mr. Knightley will love Anne's intelligence and sensible nature; she also has the open temper that he believes is an essential quality in a wife. Anne will have caring, appreciative, and mature husband.

Worst: Marianne and Darcy

Mr. Darcy will get very annoyed by her, and Marianne won't understand him at all. It will be a disaster.

I have seen various claims made in this sub from time to time that Jane Austen said this or that in her letters about the fates of her characters.

From what I can tell, in most of these cases, what's actually being referred to is information that was related to us by family members but can't be found written in Jane's hand in a letter.

For example, what her nephew said in his early biography --about recollections of what she had said to family. The passage is below.

She certainly took a kind of parental interest in the beings whom she had created, and did not dismiss them from her thoughts when she had finished her last chapter.  We have seen, in one of her letters, her personal affection for Darcy and Elizabeth; and when sending a copy of ‘Emma’ to a friend whose daughter had been lately born, she wrote thus: ‘I trust you will be as glad to see my “Emma,” as I shall be to see your Jemima.’  She was very fond of Emma, but did not reckon on her being a general favourite; for, when commencing that work, she said, ‘I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like.’  She would, if asked, tell us many little particulars about the subsequent career of some of her people.  In this traditionary way we learned that Miss Steele never succeeded in catching the Doctor; that Kitty Bennet was satisfactorily married to a clergyman near Pemberley, while Mary obtained nothing higher than one of her uncle Philip’s clerks, and was content to be considered a star in the society of Meriton; that the ‘considerable sum’ given by Mrs. Norris to William Price was one pound; that Mr. Woodhouse survived his daughter’s marriage, and kept her and Mr. Knightley from settling at Donwell, about two years; and that the letters placed by Frank Churchill before Jane Fairfax, which she swept away unread, contained the word ‘pardon.’  Of the good people in ‘Northanger Abbey’ and ‘Persuasion’ we know nothing more than what is written: for before those works were published their author had been taken away from us, and all such amusing communications had ceased for ever.

Here is also the source I've been able to find so far for the claim that Jane Fairfax lived only about 10 years after her marriage. Apparently, that was also passed down by word of mouth as something that Aunt Jane said, per Deirdre Le Faye. (I don't have the book in question but lifted this citation from someone commenting it online.)

“According to a less well-known tradition, the delicate Jane Fairfax lived only another nine or ten years after her marriage to Frank Churchill.” Le Faye, Deirdre, Jane Austen: A Family Record (2004), p. 241

If anyone wants to do some digging, here are links to an outdated version of Jane Austen's letters and to her nephew James Edward Austen-Leigh's Memoir of Jane Austen.

Jane Austen did have a habit of referring to people and to her own characters in ways we might not immediately think of, which does make a simple CTRL-F strategy difficult to implement. For example, this reference from her letters to Jane and Elizabeth:

I went the day before (Friday) to Layton's as I proposed, and got my mother's gown,—seven yards at 6s. 6d. I then walked into No. 10, which is all dirt and confusion, but in a very promising way; and after being present at the opening of a new account, to my great amusement, Henry and I went to the exhibition in Spring Gardens. It is not thought a good collection, but I was very well pleased, particularly (pray tell Fanny) with a small portrait of Mrs. Bingley, excessively like her.

I went in hopes of seeing one of her sister, but there was no Mrs. Darcy. Perhaps, however, I may find her in the great exhibition, which we shall go to if we have time. I have no chance of her in the collection of Sir Joshua Reynolds's paintings, which is now showing in Pall Mall, and which we are also to visit.

Mrs. Bingley's is exactly herself,—size, shaped face, features, and sweetness; there never was a greater likeness. She is dressed in a white gown, with green ornaments, which convinces me of what I had always supposed, that green was a favorite color with her. I dare say Mrs. D. will be in yellow.

Has anyone done either of these two? If so can you please give reviews- thank you so much!

Who killed Mr Collins? https://www.24carrotproductions.com/store/who-killed-mr-collins-game-pack

Jane Austen Murder Mystery https://www.printablemurdermysterygames.com/austen

We've seen a lot of insincerity from him throughout the book, so for people who feel that he was being sincere than, why?

There will always be a debate between Pride95 and Pride05, but I don't see much commentary on the merits of the earlier adaptations. Anyone have a favorite oldster version for me to hunt out? I know Greer Garson and Laurence Olivier's (1940) won an Oscar.

Ok so if this is in the wrong place I'm so sorry and please point me in the right direction!

I'm writing a story and the mfc is dressed in the worst colored dress ever. The problem is that I can't find any sources of what that color would be and that's where I need your help. She is married, is not a debutante and I've already used bright red as I understood colors like that was unsutible?

Can you guys help? I will send all of you imaginary cookies!

Edit:

You guys are so amazing seriusly! Thank you so much for all the help and information about color and dyes! I can't thank you enoug! You are all so kind and so awesome! I'll send you all as many imaginery cookies you want! <3

Has anybody watched this show? It’s on YouTube. It seems like these historical reality television programs don’t do very well at replicating the social conditions of the times that they are recreating. The participants aren’t usually committed to acting much different from their actual, anachronistic reactions. And maybe those reactions are actually the main thing that the producers want.

That said, I thought the series was quite interesting and covered a lot of different topics like sports/fitness, medicine, and science, as well as food, dress and entertainment.

I just finished "Pride and Prejudice" in my ongoing unofficial yearly read. Each time I enjoy it, I feel that I dive deeper into the wonderful world of Jane Austen. The ending is so satisfying as everything comes full circle, and you can see the looming joys of matrimony for Jane and Elizabeth.

I have such a desire to read more of Elizabeth Bennet and to see what her life with Mr. Darcy would have been like. I want to see how the characters grow, how the family dynamic evolves, what happens to Darcy's little sister, how Lydia and Wickham get on, how Jane and Bingley live, how Mrs. and Mr. Bennet act as grandparents... etc. I want to know it all! (Though only Jane Austen herself can write a satisfactory second installment.)

I feel the desire so much at the moment I had to share. What do you think happened to these beloved characters after the final chapter?

PLEASE fulfill my desire to peer into their futures.

Does anyone have any recommendations for Jane Austen specific bookclubs online (or in New York State)? If not, would anyone be interested in joining one on the Fable app or elsewhere?

How much time do you think passes between Darcy and Elizabeth's first meeting, the proposal, and the eventual get-together?

I can't remember if it is clear in the book, but the movies show the passing of seasons, so it feels like it's about a year. I estimate about six months from the first meeting to the proposal and another six months from the proposal to the second proposal.

Share your unpopular opinions about Jane Austen books and adaptations. Please do not downvote people for sharing opinions you do not agree with; the point of this post is for people to feel comfortable sharing opinions that they normally would not be comfortable with sharing.

Here are my unpopular opinions:

1. Frank Churchill really got a better ending than he deserved. There is no way that he could have known that Emma had not fallen in love with him; his behavior was very dishonorable. He also made Jane unhappy with his behavior. Really, making people convinced that he was in love with a woman who was not Jane was not necessary to ensure that his engagement to Jane remained concealed.

2. Colonel Brandon will make a better husband than Mr. Knightley. I believe this because Colonel Brandon does not want to change Marianne; rather, she ends up changing because of circumstances. Mr. Knightley's dynamic with Emma seems to better suited to the relationship of brother and sister or father and daughter. He has always lectured her, and I find that it will be problematic once they marry.

3. Lucy Steele is not a villain. She is just ambitious, which does not make her an awful person. Women could not earn fortunes through honest labor during that time; they had to marry wealthy men to become wealthy. The fact that Lucy cares a lot about money and that Elinor does not care a lot about money also does not make Lucy a villain.

4. The 2008 series adaptation of Sense and Sensibility is better than the 1995 movie adaptation of Sense and Sensibility. I loved both adaptations. The portrayals of Elinor and Marianne were great in both versions, but the 2008 series had time to be more faithful to the books and had better portrayals of Edward Ferrars and Colonel Brandon.

5. The 2007 movie adaptation of Persuasion is better than the 1995 movie adaptation of Persuasion. I loved both adaptations, but I thought that the 2007 movie did a better job at showing Anne's sadness. I also thought that Captain Wentworth in the 2007 movie looked more like Captain Wentworth in the book. In addition, the portrayal of Mr. Elliot was much better in the 2007 movie.

I took a history class last year that was focused a couple hundred years before the Regency era and I’m curious how much naming conventions evolved in that time.

One thing I recall from that class is that during the Tudor period (iirc) Fitz- was often used as a name prefix (though I think it was primarily for last names?) for illegitimate children. Like it basically meant bastard.

I know that today it means nothing, there’s plenty of so-and-so Fitzgeralds and Fitzpatricks and the name has no meaning regarding birth.

I am curious if Fitz- had any meaning like this during the regency period and if that means anything for Mr. Darcy’s first name being Fitzwilliam. Obviously it would’ve come up at some point if he was a bastard, so I assume it’s nothing, but just curious if the name evolved or if there’s any meaning there.

I promise this isn’t a homework request. I’m actually studying times between Medieval and early modern English history, which is why I don’t have the time to look more into Regency business myself. To my field, you all are from the future.

Thanks if anyone knows anything! And thanks even if you don’t! Sorry if any of this is completely inaccurate. I’m working with a foggy memory here.

Class and social status have a lot of overlap in Austen and in British society more widely but they're not quite the same.

Class is something you are born into. Women can marry into it and their children will have their father's class. You cannot otherwise attain class - at least not quickly. By having wealth and social status, and by emulating the behaviours and customs of a higher class, your family may attain it over several generations. For example by continuing to associate with the right people, by having the right manners, by owning a country estate, by sending your children to the right schools and ensuring they marry into the right families. Eventually the sniggers over "grandfather's mills" will fade. You can also descend the class system through poverty, marrying beneath you, etc. Fanny's mother in Mansfield Park is an example of this.

Social status (or social rank) is much more about wealth and connections. It's being fashionable, being seen in the right places, eg London/court, knowing and socialising with the right people. When Darcy criticises Elizabeth's family, her inferior social status is what he is criticising - it's interesting that he has somewhat muddled class and social status, and Elizabeth has to correct him - she is also a "gentleman's daughter".

What is interesting is the tension and interplay between these, because they demonstrate how society continually shifts and changes, and also what people recognise and what they prioritise. The money made in the industrial revolution was forcing the upper classes to accept and even make way for people who were buying their way in. But class still dominated as a kind of "gold standard" of who was really at the top of the tree and who was not.

Some examples:

• Darcy has class and high social status. He is wealthy and well-connected.

• The Bennetts have class but they do not have high social status. Mrs Bennett did not bring any high status connections and Mr Bennett does not appear to have forged any, he seems to be something of a recluse. They don't socially network in places where it counts (London). They may be well regarded in local society but they are unknown beyond it.

• The Bingleys have newly attained class (which is why it's most likely their grandfather made the money, since they've made the shift) and they have high social status. They are wealthy and well-connected, their relationship with Mr Darcy is testament to their social acceptability - particularly that Darcy considers Bingley an appropriate suitor for Georgiana. He views them as his equals.

• Jane Fairfax has class but decreasing social status due to her family's poverty. Becoming a governess would have nailed the coffin of that descent, she would no longer be part of society in the same way. Of course she could marry up again but her marriage options would be limited by being a governess.

• Mrs Philips is not of high class but in Meryton society she is of high social status. She is the wife of the town solicitor and probably one of the most prominent middle class people in town.

So I understand Robert Martin wasn't landed gentry, as he didn't own land (and rented from Knightly). So that's definitely a step below the Woodhouses and Knightlys. At the same time, Mr Knightly says he often dined with Mr Martin. So obviously they could have some form of friendship.

At one point Mr Knightly specifically says about Mr Martin "He considers me his best ground." (Or something like that.) I get that he didn't mean the modern interpretation of "best friend" where it means that you see each other as social equals and have high emotional intimacy. But obviously the word friend is in there.

So once Harriette married Mr Martin, I'm sure she didn't go to all the fancy balls, but there was no reason their friendship would have to end. It feels like the same difference between Lady Catherine and Mr Collins. I'm sure Lady Catherine doesn't invite Mr Collins when she's entertaining other nobility or children of nobility. But if she's otherwise free she can enjoy his company for cards and dinner.

Emma also seems far more conscious of class than even other gentry. She doesn't think there can be a ball because there aren't enough high ranking families, whereas the Weapons and Frank Churchill don't see that problem.

He brings apples to the Bateses, is indispensable to Mr. Knightley, knows or does his books/accounts, has an opinion on who or whether Mr Knightley marries, answers his door, so who really is he? Is he a servant? The butler? The estate agent? Is he a colonial officer in disguise? (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Larkins) or a ghost that haunts the abbey??

Sir Walter Elliot is an absolute budgerigar.

Looking in the mirror and going, "Who's a pretty boy then."

I have just finished a re read and felt compelled to share this thought.

Hello fellow Janeites,

I run a small-ish YouTube channel about books (mindful to not self promote here but for the curious among you, it's easily found by searching for my user name) and I'm currently working on a video essay exploring the gendered nature of Austen's modern readership.

I'm looking to interview one or two men who read Austen for this video. I'm not after academic analysis or anything like that, just men who casually (or not so casually) enjoy reading Austen and would be open to talking to me on a recorded video call about their experiences. The interviews would then be edited and inserted into the video as a short montage.

I hope I'm not breaking any sub rules by posting this here. Let me know if you're interested ☺️

Thank you, Claudia

Hello, Austenites!

My father LOVES Jane Austen movies, and has moved into reading her novels and comparing them, despite a lifelong struggle with dyslexia. He LOVES Jane Austen - enough to readily devote hours and days and weeks to reading her novels and parsing my old notes and articles from my English Literature classes.

For Christmas, my mother and I want to get him some more Austen reading - specifically, some of the more analytical/scholarly kind of stuff. He has her full collection of works; now, we want to get him some stuff to let him delve more deeply and continue the analysis he's started doing on his own.

I will confess, I have never been Austen girly. I whined my way through those readings in high school and college. But I do understand the joy of analysing and getting deep into scholarly understanding of a text, so I'd like to support my dad in this.

Do y'all have any recommendations of texts I can get for him, or article sets I could compile?

Lady Bertram-Mom- all worn out, possibly on opium. Mrs. Norris is a nasty scheming witch. The older son is a gambler and probably an alcoholic. The daughter has an affair while married, and runs way with her lover. The lover dumps her and goes on to other women.

Dad has a slave plantation and probably has sex there when visiting it..

or possibly watches....

Pretty Racy stuff...

To make it a modern novel,-all we need is a gay son, or daughter.

It's clear that when they all first meet, Mary set her sights on Tom, who was handsome, agreeable, and most importantly, the heir.

She had even made up her mind to "accept him" prior to Tom displaying his indifference. However, if Tom had fallen for her, do you think that would have curtailed Henry's "pursuit" of Maria and Julia? Would he have given up his favorite pastime so as not to ruin his sister's chances of a very advantageous match? And as for Mary, would she have ever noticed how superior the younger Bertram brother was if Tom had pursued her first?

What do you think? I can't decide. I'm pretty sure Henry would've done his dirty deeds anyway - maybe a touch more subtly. He had no self-control whatsoever and his vanity demanded every attractive girl in the room be in love with him. He did love Mary, I think, but not enough to marry Maria for her so I'm thinking he didn't love Mary more than he loved himself.

And I think, maybe, Mary would've eventually seen enough to regret Edmund wasn't the elder son but she wouldn't have given Tom up - Mary was an "eyes on the prize" type IMO.