When I was living with my parents a year ago I told them all the facts and lead by example and they were eating mostly vegan. My mom went vegan, the thing is she doesn’t really like to cook so in my opinion she wasn’t doing it right. My dad made a lot of mock meats and cheese which isn’t that healthy at all. However I was proud of them for making the effort. I just don’t think they were doing it right.Then I moved away and came back and they now buy all animal products again instead of milk. Things that could easily be vegan like vegan mayonnaise , vegan butter, etc.

I’m so dissapointed in them. I feel like it’s worse than people eating meat without thinking about where it comes from. They know everything, they know it’s better for environment, body, and most of all the animals. They know what happens on factory farms because I’ve explained it to them. I think it’s so much worse to know exactly what is happening to these animals and do it anyway. Because fuck those animals right?

They consider them huge animal lovers and have 3 pets. They used to watch a reality show about a sanctuary for farm animals. They loved it. And they both love seeing animals on Instagram . One time recently, my dad was talking about a video where a crow who made friends with a man his whole life and then the city relocated the crow. I guess my dad was following their Instagram for a bit. My dad was so upset bc it is super sad. It is sad but I just got annoyed because you can be sad a crow got taken from his friend, yet don’t give a fuck about the abused animals that live on factory farms. I couldn’t help it but I said “Yeah animals make friends , just like the cows and pigs you eat”. He got mad at me but like if you literally can’t stand hearing the truth about the animals he eats, why are you eating them?

I sent a video of a dairy cow to my mom and she got upset to. I just don’t get the logic. You get upset when someone shows and explains facts about what you are eating? Maybe you shouldn’t eat them if you can’t bear the video or hear the truth about where they came from?

I’m so disappointed in them.

I moved away and came back,

This was my first ever check up at a psychiatrist, although I've been in therapy for more than 2 months now (at a physiotherapist). Among other things she asked me about my eating habits and I told her I've been vegan for about 8 years now, so I asked if she thought it may be affecting my mental health and she said yes and added "that serotonin needs to come from somewhere you know". I was so baffled I didn't know how to respond. Admittedly I do not take the best care of my nutrition, but that isn't caused by me bring vegan, and despite that my bloodwork is great.

Has anyone had similar experiences with depression and has there been any correlation with your diet? Have any other medical professional told you anything similar?

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before. I’m currently wondering what to do with (non-food) animal products I own now that I’ve gone vegan, mainly clothes. I have several leather and wool articles that I don’t know what to do with. Is it right to throw it out? Give it to someone? Donate it? Would love to hear thoughts on this.

You say "I am vegan for health reasons" and people loose their fucking minds! Every asshole who insists "buuuuttt youuuu needed meeeeaaaattttt" is the picture of who I wouldn't want to look like or live like. Fuck these people who want to be triggered over MY health choices. They're the same ones who got mad when I lost 30 pounds.

Ok so I’m not a vegan but I know you lot are so you can help me with this. Going by the idea that many people have that humans are superior to animals, and that humans “aren’t animals” would it be vegan to eat humans? If humans “aren’t animals” then humans are edible because they aren’t animal products. I need your input on this. Is human a vegan food?

Meat is not a necessity. The truth is the human digestive system is not designed or equipped to digest and handle meats. Carnivores have specific kinds of digestive systems and we have long intestines to be able to properly digest plant products and fibers. Most humans have overconsumed protein, and we are not in a state of protein deficiency. Humans biologically are in fact plant eaters and omnivorous because they can eat more than just plant foods but nuts, seeds, legumes and a wide variety of other foods as well.

In fact animal meat is a huge hazard to the human body, and does irreparable damage to it causing heart disease, cancer and diabetes. This goes for the acclaimed white meat too which is known to raise cholesterol levels drastically. Animal meat is destroying the environment as well as murdering billions and yes that is billions of innocent beautiful helpless creatures worldwide.

I’ve made a personal commitment to use only cruelty-free and vegan products. What are the best ways to ensure that the products I use are truly cruelty-free and vegan?

I downloaded the Leaping Bunny app, but: (1) it doesn’t indicate whether products are vegan, only indicates whether products are cruelty-free (2) some brands are not certified by Leaping Bunny but are certified by other organizations as cruelty-free

Is there one simple standard to follow? Thanks!

In my oppinion health is not particularly relevant to the vegan conversation, im all about ethical reasons and i got all the answers with this line of arguing. But when it comes to health i get somewhat cornered.

Innevitably conversations about veganism devolve into the health topics, where its like "oh the studies are all propaganda" and nobody knows for sure if you can be healthy vegan bla bla..

So they claim that truth cannot be known, but they still maintain, between the lines, that eating animals is healthier and somehow im the one who is undeducated.

Then i point out that we BOTH dont know anything substancial about nutrition, so we shouldnt even talk about health truth claims.

But even at this point it further devolves into anecdotal claims of personal experience, where its always "i have tried vegan diet for a month and it rumbles my stomach strangely", "i ate a salad and i felt dizzy for a week, my body is only able to process meat, even if i wanted to be vegan i cant", you know how it goes, they conjure a bunch of bullshit where they present themselves as unique and tell you they cannot go vegan because they would explode...

And so, im always stumped here, what do you say to these kind of anecdotal arguments?

I know that I'm I'm a biased community here in the first place, but considering that nearly everyone else has an opposing bias for no apparent reason... I just want to see if my views are at least accepted among vegans.

I'm vegan because I know that what our human world is doing to animals is worse than all of the atrocities that have ever been committed towards humans combined. Not that the animals in general are treated worse than slaves or holocaust victims, but absolutely that it doesn't take long for MORE animals to receive those levels of terrible treatment than the number of humans that have been treated in those ways in literally all of history. A few years at best.

On top of the massive volumes of animals that are made to suffer as badly as human victims of the worst atrocities, an incomprehensibly larger volume are still confined to imprisonment for their entire lives with no possibility if paroll, from infancy to death. And a still incomprehensibly larger amount of aquatic animals are murdered every year.

I'm sorry, I have no room to speak because I'm wearing shoes? How much time in slave labor was spent on my $60 shoes? Because an infant was born and died over 2 months in a horribly cramped prison with almost no humanitarian oversight for that $5 rotisserie chicken you just bought.

This really is nothing next to the holocaust? As a lowball, between marine and land animals, over 3,000,000,000 murders that you don't give a crap about happen every day for food. Would the eradication of all the humans on earth in less than 3 days be better than the holocaust?

Oh, animals die in plant agriculture as well? Then let's use it to feed humans instead if animals and we won't need to grow so much, and let's collectively come up with more humane ways to farm.

Besides, I never said that I don't focus on humanitarian efforts as well. Humans are animals, too, and I do what I'm able to reduce human suffering. And I certainly don't eat them 🙄.

Sorry, I don't talk this way to non-vegans. I don't get snarky about it or get this far into it all. But I don't see why I shouldn't anymore, either. Not once they get snarky with me after asking why I went vegan or after I reply to a "why are vegans so insufferable?" Type of question.

But for real, how is any of this off-base?

Edit: well, at least it seems like other vegans don't have a problem with thos line of reasoning. Not that it helps with everyone else, but that's why I gave up on swaying their opinions. I suck at it, completely and totally. And it gets me too worked up.

Edit 2: thanks for all the replies. It's got me feeling a bit better. I feel like such an outcast when it comes to my views in general.

Hi everyone. I posted here a few months ago about making a dessert for my friend at my wedding, y’all were super helpful, and I’ll be making a cheesecake.

Now I need help with mains. (Long story, but caterer isn’t doing them). I have 2 or 3 vegetarians and one vegan. So I figure they can all be vegan for the night.

What’s something delicious (doesn’t have to be particularly easy) I can make Monday or Tuesday in individual casseroles to have the caterer throw in the oven on Saturday? Freezing in between is ok with me.

Thanks a lot! I know I could just take this to Google, but I’m only two weeks out and would love to avoid that rabbit hole with your help!

Thank you for your help!

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/19/un-livestock-emissions-report-seriously-distorted-our-work-say-experts

"Exclusive: Study released at Cop28 misused research to underestimate impact of cutting meat eating, say academics"

“The scientific consensus at the moment is that dietary shifts are the biggest leverage we have to reduce emissions and other damage caused by our food system,” Behrens told the Guardian. “But the FAO chose the roughest and most inappropriate approach to their estimates and framed it in a way that was very useful for interest groups seeking to show that plant-based diets have a small mitigation potential compared to alternatives.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/19/arts/books-human-skin-harvard.html?ugrp=c&unlocked_article_code=1.lk0.FTeP.UsqVJYsa2qgU&smid=url-share

^ Do I even have to say anything? Carnism at work.

No one even takes a moment to consider the specific cruelty of the leather industry, or the more general and innate wrongness of raising an animal as a slave/commodity.

I'm writing to request your view of my argument against carnism. To try and do a bit of a devil's advocate role and critise it from a carnist's perspective as to the validity of the argument. And though it may appear humorous, I'm not joking and trying to be vindictive though I admit carnism does make me upset and I am known to break formality and speak my feelings. But I want you to know truly that I am sincere and looking for constructive feedback. As it's not a topic I've heard talked about over the 9 years I've been vegan. But a perspective I hold.

And that argument is to equate meat to fecal matter. And it's more moral to eat animal shit than animal meat. And that for all the reasons one eats meat, they may as well eat animal shit. And the only reason they don't eat animal shit is the same reason they eat meat, because they've been heavily conditioned to do so. The reason they think they don't eat animal shit is because they think it smells bad and likely tastes bad. But meat smells horrible. Yet it's the cooking of meat and adding in the spices that makes it delicious for them. Maybe the carnist just hasn't tried Kentucky Fried Chicken shit and they might enjoy it because their carnist perspective can influence them to do so.

Why else would a carnist not eat this part of an animal? They can get nutrients from the shit. Shit has plenty of nutrients. It could be delicious for them if cooked. It's got nutrients. What other excuses do they come up with? I mean that's basically what compells their actions. The only thing that's missing is being surrounded by a narrative and group think that it's okay. But that's the very thing they use to excuse themselves from doing something attricious. And instead grace the rest of humanity with a biproduct of a culture that could easily conclude shit eating is an okay thing.

I mean in little ways they already do consume animal shit. And are totally fine with it. Because a) how the meat becomes processed, and b) the living conditions.

So I guess this perspective is sort of like a variation of NTT. Trying to differenciate the difference between eating animal products and pieces of shit. And the only difference being brain washing. That is the trait. And the outcome is whatever a group of human beings that think like this are capable of, similarly I'd say what can you expect of a society based around aggression and just taking what you want. Not very highly.

And therefore the construct of the carnist mentality can be reshaped from being flesh eating to little shit eaters. It's the same mentality. 2 sides of the same coin. The same logic. The same potential. And should be percieved as the same. And what should be done if you saw somone scooping up the droplets of a sheep's shit and cooking them for a sandwich? You'd want to keep them away from children for a start.

And that's then the degree we should percieve carnists as. This perspective helps us realise our own normalised conditioning to accept these psychopaths. That those under a varied conditioning circumstances are shit eaters. And would you take a shit eater seriously? No. They are crazy. You'd think they need help.

The argument seems like a strawman. But it's based around the application of a perspective's construct under a different circumstances yields a pattern result. It's critiquing a system, not an ego identity that then removes the strawman rebutted. And can you critise somone for that pattern? I mean as a broad example. If somone was to believe in fairies, would it be too presumptuous for you to think they would believe in ghosts? No, and also judge their reasoning capability based on both your observation and your linked assumptions? I don't think so. Because you see how the constructive of superstition can have an influence over their mind. And whatever psychological proclivity they have to being persuaded. So in the same way I would say, if you eat meat, prove to me you're not a shit eater? Because it seems like based on your logic that you've just not found a delicious well cooked piece of shit to go with your shitty ideology, or in their case, bloody ideology.

I suppose a good rebutted would be, if you eat mushrooms, why would you not eat mold? Why would you not cook up mildew? Or you could say well you eat shit too if there is a bit of dirt on your lettus because that's worm poop.

Anyway what are your thoughts on this as a vegan engaged in debating? What value does it have as an argument to say carnists are just closet shit eaters and that exactly summerises the tribal mentality of their self absorbed group think.

Does it have ground or is it stupid? Thanks for reading.

I don't dream of a world where everyone is vegan, would it be great sure, but it's never going to happen and I've accepted that. I don't proselytize my veganism or expect other people to become vegan. I view veganism as a personal choice akin to who you vote for or who you worship. I'm not mad that other people aren't vegan and I don't struggle to live in a world full of non vegans. I am a vegan because I believe in the sanctity of all life and while it pains me that animals are suffering, it also pains me that humans are suffering all over the place and there is nothing I can do about either thing. That is life, it always has been and always will be unfortunately. Am I still vegan? Or do I somehow not qualify?

(I promise this post isn't tongue-in-cheek, just after a while being on this sub I'm not sure anymore what qualifies as vegan or not, because it seems like I don't feel the way that a lot of people on this post feel but I still identify as vegan and care about animals and I just don't know if there's a place for me here)

This a bit of a funny question but the reason I ask is because so many people claim they have to pay for sentient beings to be slaughtered on their behalf because of food intolerances.

I had a myriad of intolerances to common plant foods growing up so I sympathize with people's struggles. So there is no reason for people to accuse me of being insensitive to another's difficulties with planning out diets.Trust me I've been there.

If you wanted to say that going vegan is more challenging to you than it would be for those without food intolerances, then I completely stand by you. That is an acceptable response.

What I find unacceptable is when people say "I have intolerances to a lot of plant foods, therefore I have to kill animals." That is not morally justified. I find that more often than not, people use this as an excuse to absolve themselves of moral culpability.

There are other options like gradual reintroduction under close medical supervision with a doctor and registered dietician. If your intolerances are so severe that your doctor tells you that it's not an option then that's also fine. You can abstain from that particular food and just find healthy substitutions. https://youtu.be/8ulyGr2JYww?si=4iDtQa3_iM6jttsf

You're not intolerant to all known edible plants. Work with a professional to help you navigate through this murky terrain. Some people are born with the wrong deck of cards and deal with hardships that most others never have to deal with.

I sympathize with your situation because I've been there, but that does not then give you the license to harm others as a consequence. It just means that life is unfair and you just have to educate yourself and work harder than others. Quit resorting to unnecessary harm because of inconvenience..

Edit: I want to make it clear that I'm talking about people who are just making excuses and have to work a little harder.

The Vegan Society defines veganism as “a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals”.

If you can demonstrate that it's not possible/practicable for you then I don't see the problem. The reason I didn't mention this earlier is because I'm afraid people will interpret the word practicable in any way they please and generate illegitimate excuses to harm animals.

Well I apologize for my horrible English. Anyway I'll proceed to my post.

There is a small band of transhumanists plan to reduce suffering of farm animals. They claim it is morally good and better than experience suffering and pain all the time.

I disagree because:

1.) if such case it happens that we can edit animals to experience less to pain and suffering then what is the moral objection to stop eating them when in vitro meat becomes more mass produce, fast and easy to produce to. Then we don't have a good moral argument to stop eating the GMO animals. 2.) It goes against the animal's autonomy and rights. 3.) Unexpected consequences like developing more diseases and poor health because the farm GMO animals have hard time to know what sort of the body that is aching and what makes them develop aching.

Can you guys provide me more counter argument that prove their hypothetical plan is a bad idea. And do you find their ideas good and so are you on board with them?

I've been buying their products for a few years in France and Sweden but over the last year everything has disappeared from every single store. There's literally nothing. I know they have recently released products with new recipes and packaging so wondering if they just stopped selling in certain places until they could roll out new stuff. Does anyone know? I've tried searching for news articles, checked their site but can't find an answer.

At this time of year, hundreds of farmers post pictures of cute lambs on their instagram, for likes and follows. They don't mention, obviously, that those lambs will shortly be sent for slaughter.

Vegan activists also use cute pictures of lambs etc., in order to make people go vegan.

With a few choice comments from vegans, these farmers' posts can become vegan posts, and make people think twice about what they are eating. Lambs are the ideal animal for turning people vegan, because they are so obviously cute, and so obviously babies.

So thanks, farmers, for posting all the cute lamb pictures - you are doing the vegan activism for us by showing what beautiful creatures lambs are, and we'll just add a few comments reminding people that if they love lambs they should stop eating them and go vegan.

Hello everyone! My fiancé and I wanted to get a vegan cake for our wedding and wanted suggestions because the place I was hoping to go to…we didnt like their cupcakes so I doubt we’d like their cakes. It doesnt really have to be a “wedding” cake, just a yummy, below $80-$100 cake for 10 people. Coconut & tree nut allergies. Dont prefer it being soy milk based

I found a good recipe so I may end up making it myself but for sake of ease I was curious what suggestions could be made

Thanks!

Looking for some help here.

The argument which we all know is that something like 80% of corn and soy is eaten by animals rather than humans, and therefore that far less land would have to be used for farming these crops if everyone adopted a plant based diet.

I saw a farmer discussing this on Facebook, and his counter argument was that animal feed is not grown purposely - rather, farms will grow a particular crop (e.g. soy), the best of the harvest will be used for human food, and the rest of the crop which has been deemed ‘unfit for human consumption’ is what becomes animal feed.

He provided no evidence for this, but it did get me wondering if the premise is true - is land actually set aside to grow crops specifically for animal feed rather than human consumption? Or is the animal feed purely a by product - and therefore not using any additional land in and of itself?

Have their been any studies into this?

Personally, I think you can vote for any party in the EU or the US and still be vegan. Edit: I’m only talking about party politics

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