Why?

Seriously, why? At least practice what you preach?

I know it’s outside my control but still I find it very weird to see those types not understanding the teaching and still wanna make money of teaching it to others?

I've been grappling with something that I think is cognitive dissonance and I'm looking for some guidance or personal experiences that might help. Often, in moments of isolation, I feel like I can see the bigger picture—understanding what truly matters and what doesn’t. I convince myself of the meaningfulness or meaninglessness of certain actions, feelings, and reactions.

However, when I’m in the thick of real-life situations, it’s like all those reflections fly out the window. I find myself reacting in ways that contradict my previously held beliefs, forgetting the insights I had when I was alone and reflective. This shift from my reflective thoughts to my in-the-moment reactions is frustrating and confusing.

Does anyone have any strategies or insights on how to better integrate my reflective insights into everyday situations? How do you deal with cognitive dissonance when your beliefs don't seem to match up with your actions?

Hi kinda new to this philisophy since a lot of my friends are sold on this kind of philosophy and yes I'm more on the exploring side looking on the benefits and disadvantage it may reward but haven't bought it yet. What do you think is the bad side of Stoicism really? Does Stoic denies the reality and create their own world? Just a question from a curious perspective.

ἀδιάφορον/adiaphoron is a Stoic term meaning: that which makes no difference with regard to your happiness. It is the negation of διάφορον/diaphoron: that which makes a difference with regard to your happiness.

Diaphoron is the choosing mind (prohairesis), which is either good or bad. Adiaphora is everything else, all the things that are external to prohairesis — those things are neither good nor bad.

Only the mind that chooses to assent or not to the present thought on the grounds of a principle is good. Only the mind that assents to the present thought on the grounds of an opinion is bad. In short, “only virtue is good, only vice is bad.”

Prohairesis is diaphoron, it makes a difference, it obtains change, it is consequential, it has effects, it is a cause, a corporeal, a local instance of Logos.

Prohairesis is you yourself. You can be either good or bad, depending on whether you choose to assent or not to the present thought on the grounds of a principle (and then you are good) or on the grounds of an opinion (and then you are bad).

Only you are good or bad. That’s ΔΙΑΦΟΡON, what I call the Stoic principle described above, basically a more explicit version of the “only virtue is good, only vice is bad” principle.

I find it more practical to remember, whenever a thought calls an external good or bad, that that’s not true, because only I can be good or bad.

My family has been going through a big financial loss because of my academics where I have failed. I have been depressed since the last two all because of this. I have not been able to overcome my consistent academic failures and my confidence has been ruined. However, My parents have been telling me that I am "Overconfident" and "Lazy" when I don't even have the basic confidence in my self to even start working. All the negative thoughts have totally consumed me. I have trying to explain my parents but they did not understand me and I ended up breaking down in front of them. It was uncomfortable. I know my parents love me but no matter how much I try they won't be able to understand me. I want to avoid these breakdowns, and prepare myself mentally stronger. I am new to stoicism, please offer me some stoic advice.

Hi all, I’m currently in uni, studying science. I love it, but I really struggle to keep my nose to the grindstone consistently. This might be a simple lack of discipline, it might be a feeling of paralysis due to high grades required for postgrad, or it might be both.

I truly enjoy studying the course’s content, and I feel happy when I’m conscious of my time and spend it wisely by allocating time to studying and THEN relaxing, instead of scrolling on my phone at my desk when I should be studying. I know fully well that I should be studying, I feel guilty when I don’t study, and I have dreams to chase. Any recommendations for getting to studying and staying at it? Any book / text reccomendations that relate to this? For context, I’ve read meditations and thought it was great.

Cheers!

What did Stoics say on the subject of authenticity? What was their definition or definitions of authenticity? I had my own definition which was living in accordance with your essence as a unique individual, but I sense that Stoics may view authenticity slighly different.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/s/t9mhNMgEbq

So I decided to quit. I won’t lie, I feel like somewhat a failure because I was trying to “glow up” to prove them wrong. But I went to work Friday and it happened again, and I spiraled this weekend. Stop taking care of myself, hyper fixating of my flaws. Called out today to try to “reset” but I still continued to spiral and just be so negative to myself. Realized that this wouldn’t be good for my mental health. And it really exposed my nature to want to be accepted/people pleasing/focused on what other people think of me. It’s like I know of stoic principles, but it’s very hard to integrate. Would love advice on how to accomplish this.

title.

Whoa, hold on a minute!

please tell me you are not

leaving the house dressed like this

​

I am not talking about the clothes on your body.

You are looking as sharp as always.

​

I am talking about the mood you are wearing

Your emotions are the clothes of your soul

​

Don’t just walk into the world emotionally undressed

and let the world decide how you are going to feel

​

Don’t let circumstances or people determine

what mood you will wear today.

​

Today, you’ve been gifted another day of life.

Make sure you dress for the occasion.

How about gratitude and joy?

They pair well together

and suit you perfectly.

​

P.S. Rockin’ your outfit today, by the way —inside and out!

Welcome to the New Agora, a place for you and others to have casual conversations, seek advice and first aid, and hang out together outside of regular posts.

If you have not already, please the READ BEFORE POSTING top-pinned post.

The rules in the New Agora are simple:

1. Above all, keep in mind that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If you are seeking advice based on users' personal views as people interested in Stoicism, you may leave one top-level comment about your question per day.
3. If you are offering advice, you may offer your own opinions as someone interested in Stoic theory and/or practice--but avoid labeling personal opinions, idiosyncratic experiences, and even thoughtful conjecture as Stoic.
4. If you are promoting something that you have created, such as an article or book you wrote, you may do so only one time per day, but do not post your own YouTube videos.

While this thread is new, the above rules may change in response to things that we notice or that are brought to our attention.

As always, you are encouraged to report activity that you believe should not belong here. Similarly, you are welcome to pose questions, voice concerns, and offer other feedback to us either publicly in threads or privately by messaging the mods.

Wish you well in the New Agora.

I've really been trying hard to keep my cool in my work latelty. Short description: I am a nursery school teacher, sharing the room with another older teacher, who has been there for about 15 years. She works with the whole group of chidren, whereas I am also there to integrate disabled children into the daily routine of our school. I have come to the conclusion, that she steps over my boundaries occasionally. Example: I count the children that go to lunch - she does it after me, even if she saw, that I already did. She falls into my word, does tend to set boundaries with the children I am working with and very often critisises me.

So I know, that by thinking the stoic way, I should not react on what is happening without a second or third thought about it... I know that she does have children my age and that this might flow into the work life. But it rubbs me the wrong way....

Any ideas how to set boundaries, whilst being stoic? Any insight thought about what I could improve about my thinking?

Hello there, I am a beginner in stoicism and I guess this one is good practice for me.

So I am a young man close to my 30s, both my current girlfriend and my ex (about 2 years long relationship each) are very feminists women. I am in agreement with it and I think it is necessary that many things change in this regard. Now the issue : they both lean on being misandrists. Each explained to me that it was more of a political stance but hearing daily that 'men are bad, men are this and that' starts to really have a negative impact on my view of myself and wellbeing. My sister also joined the club, adding to it. I have tried to ignore it for years but I can only realise it didn't work.

Now I have thought about just dating other types of girls. The thing is I am not a particularly masculine man and I suspect this is why I seem to only attract more 'deconstructed' women romantically, because they don't care about masculine features. I would be totally cool with it, but each one I date turns out to be also a misandrist.

This creates a feeling of being trapped between women who like me but also make me feel like shit and unwanted/sad, and more traditional women whose standard I can't meet in term of masculinity.

I explained that to my therapist and he kinda laughed to my face, not considering the emotional impact at all and proceeded to explain to me feminism 101 like I never heard the first thing about it.

I feel like I landed at the wrong place at the wrong timing and that this 'pain' is inaudible because of the massive troubles women have to go through everyday (which are real), but I don't think I deserve this in any way

I know this will seem "mild" compared to other posts in here but I need perspectives

Thank you !

I recently got made fun of in a post on social media with my full face and people calling me ugly. I reported the person and blocked them and their followers, but the pain still lingers..........

How do I get over this?

I wanted to provide a recent example of my own life where my use of choice and beliefs are placed before an external, in this case; my source of income or my reputation.

Our consulting business is being phased out by a major client who is building their own in-house team instead. This translates to close to a hundred million dollars a year worth of loss in revenue. The people I work with suffer tremendously over this eventuality.

In the death throes of this client relationship, our sales team wants to explore engineering problems that constitute a proverbial Achilles heel for this client, and use this as an opportunity to persuade the client that they should continue to budget for our engineering expertise, since their own in-house team does not yet have enough domain expertise to make this happen.

I was brought in as an engineering manager to create a document about an Achilles heel in the client’s infrastructure. And I was given a deadline of a single week. Myself and my direct reports wrote a document that describes the problem and potential solutions, stating that further discovery is required to validate these.

The sales team then altered our document and changed the language. Areas of ambiguity were re-written to look a lot more certain. And the problem this causes for the client received some marketing attention also.

Unfortunately for the sales team, this document can not be published unless I do it. It wouldn’t make sense for the sales team to publish this artifact within the client’s system, since it is meant to be done by an engineer. So I was asked to publish the document. And I refused. I would only be willing to publish the original document which don't warp the assertions I made.

The sales team just wanted the document to exist, so they could wield its headline like a sword in their realpolitik. But once this document is published, I will be looked towards to defend its arguments. And I did not want to represent a point of view that wasn’t my own.

The opportunities for Stoicism were many;

• Going against the tribe: The indignation by the sales team, a powerful entity in my organisation. “Whiplash does not want to cooperate”. They have the power to alter the discourse within my organisation and change my reputation for the worse.
• Speaking truth to power: Various sessions with superiors, who wanted to talk through my reasoning. Why can’t you do this simple thing?
• Potential consequences:
  • Jobs are at stake. If the organisation cannot find new revenue streams, then it may lead to layoffs. There’s a certain pressure there about how you are contributing to the sales team’s inability to find these.
  • I could lose my own source of income. How will this impact my life?

When my mind gave me the impulse that I shouldn’t sign this document, I knew that I entered the realm of the Stoics. In my younger years, my aversions to confrontation would have made me sign the document. Or my aversion to financial discomfort.

But I believe that if I follow my moral compass, I can navigate confrontation. And I can navigate financial discomfort. Ultimately, I believe that only following my moral compass can lead to the highest good. And I’m willing to sacrifice my income for this. Or the “reputation” I might have with those who’d poison their own drinking water to protect theirs.

Not every hill is worth dying on. I think there is disagreeableness that can be considered unreasonable. But a signature on an opinion, representing the only thing that is mine; my prohairesis, that is a hill I will die on every time.

The sales team found another engineer to put their signature on the document. My director in fact.

Statistically there has to be a certain percentage of people that will be lonely for the majority or the rest of their lives. How will I know that I am not a part of this percentage. And if I am, for I am not a quantum lord, I won't be able to change anything and live as a slave of my future.

I am rejected for a millionth time yesterday. Went on a date with a chick and she was clearly not interested. Mind me I am pretty sociable and funny guy. This has happened countless times this year. I get rejected from most of the woman I approach, but the ones that are OK to get to know me and do, cut all contact after a maximum of three dates. I feel like scum on earth. An unlovable piece of shit. I am 20 and I have still haven't been in a long term relationship.
I get lonely most of the time since my best friends of 14 years cut most contact after finding themselves a girlfriend. Now that I am alone in my room, desperately going to bars and clubs to meet women. I am wasting my money and time for something that I just can't get for no specific reason. People say I am attractive and I am tall, but for some mystic fucking reason the universe flips an unjust coin. I feel so exhausted and feel like I am missing on my teenage years where love feels the best.

I didnt use to care about relationships until I am all alone and there is none of my friends to talk to. For gods sake how hard is it to spare some time for your bros once every month. You dont need to spend ALL time with your girlfriend. And when we hang out ( once every five-six months now , mind me we use to be together every day as a group before they found girlfriends ) , all they talk about the love and how amazing it is and I am left there jealous and angry to the men I used to call my brothers for the past 13 years. And even if I try I cant find anyone. No love for me, let me rot in my fucking mind palace all day.

I want to seek advice on how to let go off these thoughts? Thank you

So tomorrow I have an interview for a big name company that is "prestigious" in my field of work. I am anxious because I painted a big picture of the company in my head and made it a "once in a lifetime, don't blow the opportunity" kind of thing. Now I constantly think of "what if I fail" thing. The thing is I can probably live two more months off of saving before I find another job. But I still want this one.

​

How do I deal with the anxiety and get detached and perform well in the interview? What do you guys do that help? (Those of you that tend to overthink and have anxiety issues and have found a successful method to break the anxiety).

​

Some symptoms I have is shallow breath, overthinking and overheating my brain, panicking when time is close to the interview...

​

When I overprepare or "prepare" I also tend to think "it is a big deal because I need to prepare" and hate preparing too much or having the recruiter tell me to "prepare for success" and that "few get this opportunity and you are a lucky one"... They and myself put a lot of pressure on me.

​

Methods, ways of thinking, etc. are appreciated. How should I approach it? Way of thinking? Techniques?

I struggle to find anything from Seneca or Epictetus about Narcissism can anyone fill me up on this thesis?

Hi, I have been studying Stoicism for a while (Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius so far). The concepts really resonates with me.

Also, the concept that stoicism should not only be learned/read, it must also be practiced i think also makes all the difference compared to being motivated for a day after reading something before forgetting. I have been doing this by journaling, and i must say I have made a lot of progress over the last year or so.

I have been able to overcome many personal challenges (big or small) but there is one that i cannot seem to shake off. My desire/obsession with money.

I think a challenge here is that this is so deeply intertwined with me as a person. I work as an investment professional, and invest my own money. Not a lot of money, but i have ambitions for it to compound over many years.

This is my hobby. I lead a very frugal life and i don't save to spend, but rather save to invest/have. I have justified this with the process of investing being in line with my nature. The end goal is not to become rich but to invest wisely. This makes sense to me, and seems like a logical take on it.

However, my issue is the following: I can be very competitive with others - i dont want to have/earn less money than other people at similar age. And if i hear that someone i compare to earns more than me i can ruminate on that for days. I know that this makes no sense from a rational perspective, but i can't seem to shake it of.

This question does to a large extent go into one of the main criticisms of stoicism - i.e. that it does not help with how to "not be affected by externals" specifically. I will therefore also be very gratefull from advice outside of stoicism that may have been learned from other practitioners here on this thread. Relevant reading recommendations are also highly appreciated.

How do you stop hating the game if you're never winning? I want to play, but I also hate it because I never win.

Do you guys like him? Like how he’s made stoic philosophy more accessible and popular to the average layperson? Do you dislike him or think he’s misrepresented stoicism? etc

edit: after reading comments most of you have some good points. he does seem to come across as more of a businessman than a servant of stoicism sometimes but at the end of the day he is trying to make a living for his family and he introduces so many new human beings to this philosophy just by his accessibility and understandability in the way he makes content about it. I am personally of the opinion that him sometimes covering only the surface level understanding of stoicism would only be irredeemable if he did not constantly refer back to the Stoic philosophers and their works, which he unequivocally does. He has never not told viewers in his videos to read Meditations, Letters from a Stoic, Epictetus, etc. He has always preached to go back to the source and read from the original stoics. One commenter brought up how they think the philosophy community is prone to over-intellectualizing and creating an esoteric echo chamber that is inaccessible to the majority of people. I think this is very relevant and it seems like a lot of those who despise Ryan belong to that kind of echo chamber. Philosophy and practical wisdom should be accessible and marketable to the average human. What’s the point otherwise?

Went for a walk today, and and I kept wrestling with this question, and the implications of both the affirmative or negative. Im going through some dissatisfaction in my life and self, and I distrust my perceptions about what is "good" or "bad" for me. I thought about the path I am following through life and whether I can change it, and quickly wondered about the above question. It somewhat revolves around the idea of following the "natural" order of things, and whether true individual change is possible.

In the affirmative (it IS disingenuous to go against your nature), it seems to follow that no real change is actually worthwhile, and by forcing against your nature, you end up with more turmoil and discontent than before. Therefore, it is better to remain as is and act in accordance with that. A metaphor I thought of is a farmer changing the course of a river to water his crops, only for it to flood his fields.

In the negative (it is NOT disingenuous), it then seems to follow that by going against your own nature, you redefine your nature to include being dissatisfied with it, and act in accordance with that. But then, change isnt quite possible, because any act taken to readjust yourself only puts you further in the rut of your nature. Then no matter your action, it must follow your nature, because if it wasnt in your nature, you wouldnt have done it.

In either case, changing ones nature seems either impossible or ill advised.

Im new to stoicism, and this subreddit, so I probably missed some logic here. But I guess thats why im posting, to see where I can improve, and to learn more about this philosophy and gain better understanding.

I’ll spare you the details, but my medical health is being messed about by my country’s health system which is run by idiots in positions of power. I’ll either get no help for my illness or I’ll be made to jump through arbitrary hoops that some Karen of a middle-manager came up with based on literally no medical evidence whatsoever.

What’s the Stoic response to these people? I could pick a legal battle with them, but that seems tedious and time-consuming. So does a Stoic just shrug and jump through the idiot’s hoop? In that case, how does society change for the better? Or does it just not matter whether society changes or not?

im curious how yall actually live your lives following this principle as you know i assume that being a stoic has at least made yalls lives a little better. i dont know how to say it best but im thinking an average person following this sub may not be actually not incorporating it into real life and just stays for the quotes and self improvement aesthetic ( looksmaxxing and the thorfinn edits on yt and tiktok ). not generalizing ofc and ik a lot u guys do really put importance of being a stoic but for me personally, i also found this sub many years ago and have times where i did it so religiously but after a few weeks i quickly forgot about it and went back to my normal life. i still get so distracted easily, mainly bcs of the beauty standards and trends around me on social media apps, i have made so many mistakes with my relationships and even have to cut off people bcs of my toxic behaviors, have very low self esteem, have inconsistent self identity, have very bad panic attacks and depression, and just abt everything. maybe i just want to know if some of yall are like me who have followed this sub for growth but is still not having the growth i need to have like everyone else, its like im still a pathetic loser who is still finding out abt themselves and cant get out of the overconsumption and brainrot culture of our society today. i dont want to make excuses but its hard finding hobbies when ppl are on their phones a lot and most trends are on there and i have very bad fomo, im 18(f) so maybe that counts. im more of a fun yolo type of person so i have many goals for myself and have fun with my friends a lot and maybe thats making my life a little harder. what do u guys think? im genuinely curious if yall are actually following the zen stoic day to day life. no hate and this is just a personal anecodte of mine, it doesnt mean that i do think that every person in this sub has the same day to day life as me bcs ik that everyone's different. id appreciate if u share urs!

Welcome to the New Agora, a place for you and others to have casual conversations, seek advice and first aid, and hang out together outside of regular posts.

If you have not already, please the READ BEFORE POSTING top-pinned post.

The rules in the New Agora are simple:

1. Above all, keep in mind that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If you are seeking advice based on users' personal views as people interested in Stoicism, you may leave one top-level comment about your question per day.
3. If you are offering advice, you may offer your own opinions as someone interested in Stoic theory and/or practice--but avoid labeling personal opinions, idiosyncratic experiences, and even thoughtful conjecture as Stoic.
4. If you are promoting something that you have created, such as an article or book you wrote, you may do so only one time per day, but do not post your own YouTube videos.

While this thread is new, the above rules may change in response to things that we notice or that are brought to our attention.

As always, you are encouraged to report activity that you believe should not belong here. Similarly, you are welcome to pose questions, voice concerns, and offer other feedback to us either publicly in threads or privately by messaging the mods.

Wish you well in the New Agora.

Stocisim teaches us not to worry about things we can't control and this is excellent advice. But what of the times where we are unsure if something is truly outside of our control?

What when we don't know if we can really do something to change an outcome?

This comes to mind particularly in relationships with people, sometimes I find myself wondering should I say something or do something but wonder is it really my place or my responsibility.

For example - I've had situations where I thought some friends and family members were doing things that were destructive or bad for them but they are adult people and often times made it obvious they didn't appreciate my "advice" or offers of help.

If thou findest in human life anything better than justice, truth, temperance, fortitude, and, in a word, anything better than thy own mind's self-satisfaction in the things which it enables thee to do according to right reason, and in the condition that is assigned to thee without thy own choice; if, I say, thou seest anything better than this, turn to it with all thy soul, and enjoy that which thou hast found to be the best. But if nothing appears to be better than the deity which is planted in thee, which has subjected to itself all thy appetites, and carefully examines all the impressions, and, as Socrates said, has detached itself from the persuasions of sense, and has submitted itself to the gods, and cares for mankind; if thou findest everything else smaller and of less value than this, give place to nothing else, for if thou dost once diverge and incline to it, thou wilt no longer without distraction be able to give the preference to that good thing which is thy proper possession and thy own; for it is not right that anything of any other kind, such as praise from the many, or power, or enjoyment of pleasure, should come into competition with that which is rationally and politically or practically good. All these things, even though they may seem to adapt themselves to the better things in a small degree, obtain the superiority all at once, and carry us away, But do thou, I say, simply and freely choose the better, and hold to it. But that which is useful is the better. Well then, if it is useful to thee as a rational being, keep to it; but if it is only useful to thee as an animal, say so, and maintain thy judgement without arrogance: only take care that thou makest the inquiry by a sure method. ... .

Here briefly theres a lot of things to catch on but I'll show some light on this Look here he says that things like pleasure ,power(wrong power) etc clearly wins in the short term argument but it is never worth it hence justice ,temperance,love etc be compromised on this choice as they are good in long term value as well when ever making a descision on these two(good or bad). Rationalize thoroughly as do you need it as a animal or a rational being

I want to try and follow the Stoic principle of "wanting what you already have", but what I have isn't as good as I'd like in my opinion. Let me explain.

When someone says "go to your happy place", for me that is somewhere isolated. Like a dock next to a lake, or a pier overlooking the ocean. Closing my eyes and picturing that is what makes me most content. But it's just a dream. Because there is always some sort of crisis going on with some family member, or just general drama. My brother being in the hospital for emergency surgery, my grandpa being put in the same nursing home my grandma passed in, my mom being a mess over the whole situation, etc. I could go on.

And yet, I can't just turn my back on all of them and cut them out of my life. They're literally all I have in this world. Yet at the same time, I'm always wishing things were different and that I wouldn't have to constantly deal with all of this.

I am 26 male. I have little dating and no relationship experience and in my early 20s I was very bothered by it. But in the last 2 years I got a great job that pays well (for East Europe standards) started to feel more comfortable in my skin and stopped caring of being alone or validation from women. But sometimes I think that this comfort will actually lead to me wasting my years living yolo and having fun and I will soon be 50 with again no relationship experience and will suddenly get depressed of wasting my life. This happens in flashes usually once a week and the it passes and I continue living my best life. So do I start chasing a relationship with all my efforts or do I lose all care and live for myself. I want to start a family and head this family as an example as an honest successful individual.