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I had a discussion with my younger brother recently, I would say he is someone who is very satisfied with his life, he has a partner (his first one) that he has been dating for a few years, he is studying at university and getting good grades, he is extremely fit and he has a lot going for him. I am also in a very similar position in life (at least externally), I am coming up to the completion of my PhD thesis, I am currently single, but have been in two long-term relationships (never anything transient) I am also extremely fit, and extremely active.
But there is a big difference between us two, and its our outlook on life. My brother again, is very happy with his life. Where as I have suffered a lot of depression previously. I have been getting into stoic thought and philosophy (have read Marcus Aurelius , and now on to Epictetus) and I am enjoying learning about stoicism. My brother has no idea about what stoicism is and even looks down on it.
“What's the point of stoicism, like there isn’t much to think about, if you want to do something just do it”.
I think I know a bit about stoicism now, and am putting it into practice. Analysing each of my impressions, and determining what actions I should take. But I think about things too much eg., “if someone is interested in me, but I am only interested in her in a lusting sense, is it ok for me to keep talking to her because of the chance I might get to sleep with her”. I asked him this question and he just says do what you want to do, if you want to you want to sleep with them sleep with them, if you don’t then don’t. He doesn’t seem to understand the opposing sides that I have in me, Reason and the animal side. I have become very anxious thinking about my impressions these things, and I feel like analysing my thoughts is making me more anxious and depressed, I have been keeping a journal where I think about a lot for the past year. I am just so confused how he is so happy all the time if he doesn’t think deeply and act in specific way about things. He just says to me don’t think deeply about these things.
I guess with this post I am just looking for thoughts. Sorry hopefully what I am saying makes sense.
Lately, I’ve been struggling with a deep sense of not belonging or others not understanding. While this can affect various areas in my life, I feel it especially when entering the dating scene after being in a long-term relationship. I have a hard time connecting to others on surface-level topics, and superficial connections feel empty to me. I love getting to know people on deeper levels, discussing meaningful topics or connecting with shared interests and weird humour. However, when I do find a guy I connect deeply with, something always seems to happen where he pulls away from me. I know I shouldn't be so affected by external things outside of my control, but I would be lying if I said it didn't affect me emotionally.
I know Stoicism teaches that external things, including social acceptance and relationships, are outside our control and that we should focus on our own virtue and perspective. But I still find it difficult to shake the feeling of isolation and being misunderstood. How can I apply Stoic principles to deal with this? Are there any particular exercises or perspectives that have helped you navigate similar feelings?
Appreciate any insights you can share.
Take Discourses for example. Do you read one discourse, apply what you've learnt the following day and move on to the next discourse? Or do you read one discourse a week, apply what you've learnt for the entire week and move on? Of course, these are examples I made. I'd like to know how people here read something and apply it to their life, especially when they're busy with other things in life and may not have a lot of free time.
If these two are the only available options, which would you prefer for reading philosophy and stoicism books?
And why?
For context, I pursued a career as a diver because I wanted to challenge myself and become better in my career. It was impressed upon me that there would be a sense of camaraderie and brotherhood. However, I've come to find that there is a bit of toxicity within the community and a lot of the people I work with have big egos, pass judgement quickly, and gossip about each other frequently. Sometimes, I'm not sure if I'm just being sensitive and misunderstanding those I work with, but I find it hard to adapt to this kind of environment.
With that comes a mixture of feelings of loneliness and frustration. Frustration with the type of personalities I'm surrounded by every day and lonely because I would like to enjoy working with someone I could genuinely consider a good friend. So I guess what I'm asking is; how do I content myself with the situation I'm in?
Example: I went on a road trip with friends with my girlfriend, for a 3-day weekend. And, out of nowhere, someone asks me a politically-charged question that I thought was just a detached technical question. And, boom! It blows up into a bickering match.
I was a temporary supervisor and was written up because I failed to 'police' one of my supposed employees when he was cracking jokes that someone did not take kindly.
No matter what I do, I fail to keep the peace.
I have tried to fix my reactivity, but, I always get taken off guard.
Now, I have to create rules for myself to follow to avoid having blow-ups near me.
Marcus Aurelius views rest in the eyes of preparation for a task or duty and allows us to fufil our duty, but what if due to burnout, we are unable to complete our duty? Do we need to step back from that duty or do we need to still complete that duty, but at a lower cadence?
Educate and inspire me with your thoughts.
I’m doing good. I’m happy with where I am and how to motivate myself to get what I want. I can manage my emotions and thoughts and I know I can overcome whatever obstacle I come across because I’m smart and aware.
but I struggle with anxiety.
I manage it very well. I know how to manage it. What I need to manage it. What helps me manage it. What makes it worse. However, I struggle when I can’t manage it. When I don’t know what I need to do or think or what to prepare for. I still manage because I’m comfortable with myself but the wait of waiting for the obstacle to come and pass makes me very anxious and unmotivated to do anything else. I feel like I wait for it to come and go so I can carry on with life. I plan for it plan my thoughts, actions, facial expressions, body language so much that I don’t allow room for anything else.
I know this about myself and I know when I do it. I feel like instead of moving forward and facing the obstacle when it comes, I instead wait for it to come to me so I can get around it THEN start moving forward again. It gives me this sense of preparation. Instead of distracting myself I can prepare for it effectively. I know I usually don’t need that much preparation but I still “but what if I do”
I usually do overcome things with ease but I think I’ve got this thought in my head that I’ve only been able to overcome things because of all the planning I do.
This tells me I still need to grow somewhere but I don’t know where. How can I control my fear of the unknown? How can I effectively remind myself to move forward and ACTUALLY start moving?
Tell me your thoughts. I want new effective thoughts and to remind myself of old thoughts.
I am talking about a person who is obsessed with , competes with you and wants to rub on your face.
I really feel threatened by these people and its like they live rent-free in your mind
In other words - is any action akin to "explaining" "setting the record straight" "calling someone out" truly necessary?
The other option is simply just don't explain, get to the action, let the action explain for itself, teach other people the consequences of their behaviors through simply how reality unfolds itself (let them be punished by general forces, be in law, nature, society and whatever is concerned. The chances of people not understanding what you're doing is high - but you just accept that as well)
Basic Stoic thoughts lean towards - true forgiveness, control yourself and whatever you can, emotion is for learning about the situation but usually not a motivator for further action (as far as Stoicism is concerned)
Real personal responsibility is often just walking away but something tells me there are people on this thread who will try to refute this idea.
“It is not a demonstration of kindness or friendship to the people we care about to join them in indulging in wrongheaded, negative feelings. We do a better service to ourselves and others by remaining detached and avoiding melodramatic reactions.” -Epictetus
In real life people do not know they have been ignored and avoided because they are branded as troublemaking or melodramatic. Most people learn by feedback and most people usually defaults to thinking think they are in the right. They can be stealing money or assaulting others physically, with events as concrete as this, they will still believe they are in the right. So there actually is merit in telling them the truth that they are not in the right and someone including yourself can be practically saved.
Then on the other hand telling them the truth does touch upon taking part in controlling the reality...or controlling what you technically doesn't concern you unless the stakes are too high not to speak (like someone holds you at knife point)
In real life while it's true if I see someone's getting robbed or assaulted physically...sure I'll call the police but I don't make remarks about the event I see to anyone.
I don't stand in the way of people who do believe not only justice is to be delivered it also needs to be said...I don't know, I'm on the fence on this one. I just don't need power and authority over people so I usually don't explain. I do think it may help society sometimes if some people get educated better through feedback, but I don't know why not giving people a power clapback is seen as weak...it can be a virtue.
Hi all,
I am searching for the original and full length quote that is paraphrased in this article: https://modernstoicism.com/a-stoic-for-all-seasons-series-seneca-falls-by-kevin-vost/
The article paraphrases Seneca as follows:
Philosophy is not something for which one should seek attention or amusement. Philosophy is not a matter of words, but of facts. It moulds and constructs the soul; it orders one’s life, guides one’s actions, shows us what we should do and also what we shouldn’t. Philosophy sits at the helm and guides our course through life. Some might ask how philosophy is of any use if Fate exists, if God rules the universe, or if all things are a matter of Chance. Seneca answers that philosophy still prevails. “She will encourage us to obey God cheerfully, but Fortune defiantly; she will teach us to follow God and endure Chance.”
Hello I had decided to start reading philosophy and I'm interested in stoicism and ethics. I also read a bit of meditations back then I liked it.
I have bought the books Meditations, Discourses of Epictetus and Aristotle's nichomachean ethics and the Daily stoic by Ryan holiday.
Now I'm wondering whether should I start with the main books (meditations etc.) and then move on to the Daily Stoic, or start with daily stoic first.
I think I'll prefer reading the main books first but I could still use some insight so that I can create an efficient reading plan.
Thank you
I am the kind of person who puts his low effort in everything. I took a year drop after 12. Then i got into a shitty engineering college where rather than computer science where i had interest i took electronics and communication over peer pressure from my counsellor and my father whereas the truth is if i would have just told my father that i want to take compsci. he would have let me study in it.
Now after one year into college covid came where my two years got ruined due to lockdowns. Now rather than upskilling myself i just wasted my time watching movies and tv shows and then in the exams i just shat. I got many backlogs due to which my 4 year degree became 5 years.
Now my father's financial situation got worse after i passed 12 and due to which he could not help me very much financially. Also i am the middle child of the three. Now i am in corporate where i have a shitty profile and still rather than upskilling myself i still just waste my time watching movies and tv shows on the company laptop.
Now why i am calling myself a piece of shit because rather than blaming myself for my situation, i only blame my father and mother. I have an older brother who is an addict and does odd jobs and do not give any money to my family.
My father lost his job last year due to which i send them some money from my salary which i am barely surviving. I live far away from my home so whenever i talk to my mother i say bad things about my father how he did not do anything for me how he did not give me a seperate room how he did not even buy me a laptop so that i could have upskilled myself (an execuse i make for myself) and sometimes i even talk very harshly to her.
Now the truth about my father is that he was for a long time was working far away from home so i did not get to spent time with him during my childhood also he did not save enough money and this is one reason for my hate for him.
My grandfather died when my father was only 15 and he had to take care of himself my grandmother and his two little sisters and he did his best for them also he did as much as he could do for me and i say this to myself but for some reason time after time i am just getting frustated and my hatred for him comes back, I do not know how to cope with my situation.
SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH. IT IS NOT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE.
Good evening everyone,
I stumbled upon a book called “ Epictetus The complete works” edited, translated with introduction and notes from Robin Waterfield.
Is says on the front University of Chicago press as well.
Is this a good edition to start with?
Hi guys. I want to read a life changing book, or something this is at the very least incredibly moving. Something in philosophy, stoicism, spirituality…. Nothing fictional and no biography’s… if you have any suggestions and why you would suggest it, I would greatly appreciate it :)
Premise: Not new to Stoicism, I actually consider myself an intermediate practicing modern Stoic, I've read/studied all the classics and some of the new writings (especially Massimo's). I used to be active on this sub but then I deleted that account and abandoned the discussion here.
These days I am taking a deep dive into Friedrich Nietzsche, especially the concept of Übermensch, but really Nietzsche in general. I know, it's like drinking from a firehose!
Yesterday I came across his Master–slave morality concept, and how, according to him, it shaped the culture and philosophy of the entire Western Civilization. While I am still ruminating it and digesting it, instinctively I can see that; especially on there divide when it comes to work ethics, some people are workaholics, while other are "silent quitting" or manifesting similar behaviors. I see that at work too and I my long professional life.
Two question for the Stoa:
Thanks in advance.
In early 2021, I was diagnosed with ALS (aka. MND, Lou Gehrig’s Disease)—a terminal condition that progressively paralyzes the body while leaving the mind intact. Most patients survive only 24 to 36 months after diagnosis, with no cure and no promising treatments on the horizon.
At first, I shared this only with those who needed to know. But as I progressed from an ankle brace to a cane, then to a wheelchair, the circle widened. Now, after three years of grappling with death in the solace of this wooded Pennsylvania valley, and as a quadriplegic writing this solely with my eyes, I have something to share.
I’m profoundly grateful for the gifts that have emerged since my diagnosis. This includes the rare and unexpected gift of wrapping up life slowly, lucidly, and mindfully—something the stillness of this disease has imposed upon me.
Here’s the thing: you’re dying too. We all are. Dying from the moment we’re born. This isn’t an abstract idea—you might even beat me to the finish line. And when your time comes, you likely won’t have the luxury of contemplating it as I have.
We’re all on the same path towards death. Always have been. I’m just more aware of it now—a truth many avoid until it’s too late to either live or die well.
If you’re interested, I’ve kept a journal throughout 2024 that I’m now sharing as a blog as I revise it. I’m doing this to share the hard lessons my situation has demanded. I’m not selling a damn thing– what would be the point of that? Instead, please consider it field notes from someone who has been able to scout the territory farther down our shared path.
I hope it helps.
Best,
Bill
Every other post here is about dealing with depression, grieving lost ones, or overcoming heartbreak. Not to downplay personal struggles, but is this really what Stoicism has been reduced to—a self-help therapy group?
Ancient Stoicism wasn’t about wallowing in personal emotions; it was about discipline, virtue, and resilience. It was about mastering the self to act with wisdom and strength, not just finding coping mechanisms for sadness. Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, and Seneca weren’t writing to comfort you in your sorrow—they were telling you to get your act together and live with purpose, regardless of circumstances.
Of course, emotions exist, and we should acknowledge them. But Stoicism teaches transcendence, not indulgence. It’s not just about making yourself feel better—it’s about being better. Have we lost that? Have we turned a philosophy of action and virtue into a soft blanket for emotional distress?
Would love to hear thoughts, but let’s be real—if your first response is just “but people struggle,” you’re proving my point.
Edit:
Clarification: To be clear, I don’t have an issue with people seeking advice on how to handle their struggles. In fact, it’s natural and understandable for people to turn to Stoicism during tough times. My concern isn’t the act of seeking advice itself but rather how these situations are often approached here.
Many responses seem to lean more toward generic emotional reassurance or "it'll get better" platitudes rather than engaging with Stoic principles in a meaningful way. Stoicism isn’t just about coping; it’s about cultivating virtue, accepting the nature of things, and reframing your perspective. If this sub is meant to be about Stoicism, shouldn’t the advice reflect that more rigorously?
I’m not saying every response needs to sound like it was written by Seneca, but if someone is coming here for Stoic wisdom, shouldn’t we point them toward ideas like the dichotomy of control, amor fati, or memento mori rather than just consoling them?
What are your thoughts?
My sister used to do bad things on me and it's left a big impact on me that the moment I heard her name my day is ruined. I've tried to constantly remind myself that it's in the past already and her action was not under my control at all yet it doesn't help. I've also tried perspective taking, thinking what's the reason she behaves like this yet it doesn't help. Whenever the thoughts came up my day has been ruined. I don't want someone has so much power on my daily life yet I have no idea how to change it.
I want to write a journal with all the exercises the theory some quotes and I'm curious what other sections I should add to my journal before I start
Hello everyone, I’d like to adopt the stoic mindset and lifestyle because I’m in my 20s and I’m starting to realize that I always feel like I’m in competition with others. I do get a lot of things, but I’m never happy with them. Then, when my closest friends achieve somethinf, I feel so much envy and pure anger—basically, all the feelings of jealousy. I'm too focused on their life, I dont want them to do better than me. I hate that I'm never as happy as them, even if they have less things or experience less. I'm constantly doing so many things and Im never satisfied.. Can anyone help me or guide me?
Im sure theres lots of posts like these . As im getting back into stoicism my question is what are some mantras or exercises you do to stay mindful? Ive always carried being aware of my surroundings whenever thoughts come up and its working as well as saying things like “ i cannot control things beyond my power” etc i can see myself progress overloading it day by day its working
My father is hearing voices and is always talking to some imaginary guy who is abusing and cursing him through out.
I can understand how hard it is on him and I feel really bad for him. I have tried to reason with him a lot that it's all in his mind and I won't let anything happen to him. But then he gets sad that even his own son won't believe that there's actually a guy abusing and cursing him 24hrs. I have tried a lot of things. Earlier when this thing started, he used to live alone, so I brought him to live with me in so that he might feel better. But it didn't help at all. I have tried reasoning with him but he just won't get it which makes sense because it's all real form him. And in the end, I took him to a psychiatrist who gave him some meds and told me to wait and watch if he gets better.
Now this whole thing has taken a toll on my mental health as well. I live alone with my father now and have to go to a job on weekdays for most parts of the day. Other than that I occasionally go out with friends. I am having so many doubts and fear and really need someone rational to help me navigate:
My major fear and guilt is going to job leaving him alone and then hanging out with my friends. I always have that anxiety what if something happens to him while I am out and he would be calling out to me and I won't be there for him and I would forever live under this guilt that I was not there when my father needed me. It's not that I love him a lot or anything. Infact I had a pretty shitty childhood growing up that too without a mom. But because he places so much of his trust in me, i almost guilty that I am not with him 24hr which is impossible.
Other thing that crosses my mind is that I don't want to spend my life caring for him and taking him from one doctor to another. It almost feels like it's a life sentence and nothing is my control which then leads me to dark places that I should better sent him to an asylum which I know if I did, I won't be able to live with myself.
I know the basic stoic guidelines would be to not worry about things which are not in my control and just continue living my life helping my father as much as I can. I understand that. I am doing just that. But theres one side of me sometimes which says I am not doing enough when I am not looking after him and there's other side of me which says I am wasting my life on a hopeless person when I am looking after him. This leads to me being worrying about him when I am not with him and hating him when I am with him.
I am sorry if it's too much. I can't go to therapy because of finances and I am scared to go to therapy as well. Sorry if this subreddit is not the right place for it
Curious to know which Stoic philosopher has left the deepest mark on your life or resonates with you the most
There's a group of people in my personal life that I've know all my life and I hate very much. They represent greed, hypocrisy, selfishness and apathy, all in one. I can't just avoid them or try to forget about them because I'll experience the effects of what they've done to me for the rest of my life. They remind me of how self centered and hypocritical human beings can be. They masquerade around other people as benevolent and competent individuals when they're all nothing more than a bunch of vultures. It makes my blood boil, but I know that this won't accomplish anything. I don't like this feeling and I want to move on but it's so damn hard. What do I do?
I read all 650 pages of these monotonous letters. It took some discipline to do it since it feels like they just say the same thing over and over, and never really say anything very clearly.
There are a few nuggets of pure gold, to be sure, but man…what a tough read!
Thinking of trying cicero next.
I know this community doesn’t allow pictures, but I thought this might be cool to share. Got this yesterday.
I’m sure this is a popular one in here. My girlfriend just broke up with me and it’s my fault. How do I help this pain go away?
I wish I had a flair that was accurate to needing guidance, but did not require this "Contributor" flair. I don't care if they are approved by a mod team or not, I like all sources. Perhaps it serves a more wide communal function that I am not understanding?
I'll make a copy of this on my personal wall, if you do not have a contributor flair and wish to respond, please go to my profile and reply there. Thank you. I appreciate your time and energy put into a response.
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I feel some background is required to understand the nuance of this situation.
I am 20, I work at a paper mill, long hours, great pay. I got married for about a year and my wife left, in no small part due to my unmanaged ADHD, poor temperance, and just general lack of knowing my limits (when I'm overstimulated and need to step back, etc) Not too dissimilar from things my dad is doing currently. This puts me in an odd position.
My dad has served as a caretaker his entire life. He had the demeaning job of wiping his brothers butt as a kid, his dad had a stroke when he was 11, became his caretaker, and now his wife is severely crippled and he pretty much has to wait on her hand and foot.
ADHD is highly genetic, and I suspect my ADHD (and my little sister's) was inherited from him.
My dad is not studied in Stoicism, but always seems willing to hear about my random rants/rambles.
He's also been listening to my little snippets on ADHD.
My mom was pretty abusive to me and my sister when we were younger and I developed a very strong guardian complex from protecting my sister. My mom has tamed out significantly in her older years. I hold little resentment and love my mom deeply.
May be irrelevant, but I'm learning that I do have some PTSD from my childhood, though.
My dad is having an awful time coping.
It's getting rather terrible and he's becoming deeply resentful of my mom, to no real fault of her own.
He is becoming uncaring and is starting to say some pretty horrible things.
I'm doing pretty well in managing my reactions, I think, but I get flashes of anger seeing and hearing some of the things he does/says. I usually take over in helping my mom, let my dad and myself cool off and I try to talk to him.
How do I talk to my dad? How do I avoid being condescending or disrespectful? How do I approach these conversations?
I'm still his son with 20 years less experience, and I haven't been given those same cards he was dealt.
I can't just go in "I have all the answers and the experience to tell you how to handle this"
I really think he can benefit from learning a bit about stoicism, perhaps even considering an ADHD evaluation himself.
I have to at least try to do something.
----
We're all in a spot where we truly need to stick together, and while I know it's not in my control, I don't want to leave any effort on the table.
My sister is struggling to maintain her mental health in this household, and she looks to me as much as ever. My mom is increasingly going to me for companionship and safety, and my dad is desperately looking for someone that cares and understands. He's also scared that no one will be there for him the same way he's been forced to be there for others, and he's also scared that he will be a burden the same way he's felt like he's been burdened by others.
It feels like they're all looking towards me.
Not to mention some of my friends that also look to me for help in their personal growth.
I am aware that this is a lot for me to be putting on my own shoulders, and my chances of not being able to hold everything is high.
And I don't intend to try to do this single handedly, but rather do my best to offer direction, and make sure I know my limits. A phrase my EMT instructor drilled into us lol.
Any advice, thoughts, or experiences help.
Thank you for your time and energy.