By intentionally comparing you to others and overcomplimenting your peers while downplaying your achievements to ignite jealousy or test if you show signs of jealousy?

What has helped me so far is to work on being and feeling less entitled: understanding that nothing is this world is really ours, and no one is more or less deserving of the resources, including myself. So when your peers do good that’s an encouragement and a good indication that you are surrounding yourself with people who inspire you. Also a negative remark from others is most usually a projection; every interaction is a lesson to understand yourself better, to try to take nothing personally and their opinion of you doesn’t have to become your reality.

Also observing how I react instead of absorbing the words thrown at me as facts helps. If I do get jealous, it means I have an insecurity I need to work on.

However I don’t like the way the perpetrator benefits from seeing me get triggered. I wish there was a way I could mask and make a poker face or a quick fix to not show outward signs of feeling jealous:/

And that is testable.

C is the final end, the why I am choosing so (to assent or not to the present thought).—Consistency, choosing well between assenting or not to the present thought. And M is the how, the Means to that end.—Matching the present thought with a related principle.

The final end and proper function of a rational animal is to keep itself (its choosing-mind) rationally consistent. As Zeno said: “Live consistently.”

Assenting to having final ends in externals (things like pleasure, persuading others, success, accomplishing / achieving / reaching anything that lies outside the choosing-mind) is thus inconsistent with the proper function of a rational animal.

External final ends are distractions rendering the choosing-mind inconsistent: performing its proper function (and all its other functions) improperly. All you need is Consistency and Match.

“A human being’s earliest concern is for what is in accordance with nature. But as soon as one has gained some understanding, or rather “conception” (what the Stoics call ennoia), and sees an order and as it were concordance in the things which one ought to do, one then values that concordance much more highly than those first objects of affection. Hence through learning and reason one concludes that this is the place to find the supreme human good, that good which is to be praised and sought on its own account. This good lies in what the Stoics call homologia. Let us use the term “consistency”, if you approve. Herein lies that good, namely moral action and morality itself, at which everything else ought to be directed. Though it is a later development, it is none the less the only thing to be sought in virtue of its own power and worth, whereas none of the primary objects of nature is to be sought on its own account.

[…]
This is the way we refer to as consistent and concordant. We do not think that wisdom is like navigation or medicine. Rather it is like the acting or dancing that I just mentioned. Here the end, namely the performance of the art, is contained within the art itself, not sought outside it.
[…]
The final aim (I think you realize it is the Greek word telos I have long been translating, sometimes as what is “final”, sometimes “ultimate” and sometimes “supreme”, though one may also use “end” for what is final or ultimate) — the final aim, then, is to live consistently and harmoniously with nature.” (attributed to Cato by Cicero, in De Finibus 3.21-26)

2 and 1/2 weeks ago i came home from work my fiancee that ive been with for 9 yrs and 6mo put a note on my tv that said he moved out and took my cat. He changed his number and blocked me on all social media. He said we have grown apart. Did we grow apart? Yes a little bit but not to the point of splitting up. There were literally no signs he was leaving. Not 1 time did he act like it was over. He even signed for a new apartment with me the week before. My whole world imploded. I finally spoke with him through emails he says there is no one else ( im not naive to the possibility) he says "i didnt want to hurt you i love you its best for both of us." He said " if there was a way i could of told you i would of" he also said " i committed to the room im renting a month before" so for one month he knew he was moving out and didnt even hint to it. He even went with me to take this new apartment that costs more every month knowing he was leaving. I feel like sometimes it hurts to breathe. How do i move on from this?

A thought is presented to you, like: “An external harmed me.”

Select a thought-related principle, like: “Externals are neither good nor bad.”

Recognize that there is no match between the two.

No match, no assent.

Done.

Now, check yourself and notice that you are indeed unharmed.

———

“Do away with the judgment, and the notion ‘I have been harmed’ is done away with; do away with that notion, and the harm itself is gone.”—Marcus 4.7

Straight questions.

In my work situation I need to work with my boss as I am being downsized. He explained it is due to the business’ changing needs and I sort of get that. Everyone around me wants me to push for a severance package and I am just glad he told me 2 months in advance so I can start looking for other work. He also stated they want to retain me as a consultant on some project work; just not full time.

What do the Stoics teach about how I should behave under these circumstances?

There are at least three minds in the mind: a feeling-producing-mind (FPM), a thought-producing-mind (TPM), a choosing mind (CM).

FPM generates feelings (propathe) from sensations and memories.

TPM generates propositional thoughts from sensations, memories, and feelings.

CM chooses to assent or not to the present thought.

FPM is by its nature disturbed (disorderly moved) by disturbances external to it: sensations and memories.

TPM is disturbed to a lesser degree, in the sense that it reflects and organizes external disturbances into the logically arranged concepts which we call propositional thoughts.

CM is by default perfectly capable to remain still, undisturbed by the (slightly) disturbed external thoughts presented to it. However, CM has to function, to fulfil its purpose: to choose between assenting or not to the present thought. How does CM do it?—By the means of a few ‘actions’:

1. Selects a standard by which to recognize the present thought as true (a gift for knowledge) or untrue (a gift for freedom). That standard could be either proper: a principle related to the thought, or improper: an opinion formed in the past.
2. Recognizes how the present thought and the standard measure up. There is either a match or a mismatch.
3. Chooses between assenting or not to the present thought. If the thought matches the standard, CM is bound to assent. If there is a mismatch, CM has the freedom to choose not to assent, although sometimes it improperly assents to thoughts thas don’t match standards.
4. The assent itself.

Of the three minds, CM is by default undisturbed. However, by its own device, by its own action, CM can disturb itself. CM can become disturbed/crooked/perverted/corrupted by its own failing to bring up a principle related to the present thought — thus rendering itself dysfunctional, performing its task/function improperly, failing to fulfil its purpose.

On the other hand, if CM succeeds to select the thought-related principle, then CM remains perfect. That is the undisturbed mind called virtue, the only good.

Order is a motionless, changeless/perfect state. The active-principle, Logos, is in order. The passive-principle, Hyle, is not in order. Their combination, the universe, is in constant motion/change.

In itself, the universe is not in order. However, its motions/changes are effects of the actions of the agent Logos. So, in a way, they reflect Logos’ order.

Like all the other parts of the universe, your body is in continuous change. However, there is something about you that is unchanging: prohairesis, a corporeal held together by the same tenor logos as the active-principle.

Also like the active-principle, prohairesis is an agent. Its special agency is cognitive — it deals with logically arranged concepts called propositional thoughts, by choosing to assent or not to them.

As Epictetus put it, “you yourself are prohairesis,” a local instance of the active principle, performing a specific task on its behalf. In this sense, you/prahairesis are in order and changeless/perfect, motionless although active, like Logos itself.

​

“the intellect of each of us is a god and has flowed from there*”—Marcus 12.26

*from there: ekeithen; here and in 11.20 this phrase probably means ‘from the rational/divine/providential nature of the cosmos’. (translator’s note)

Yeah

Life is meant to be lonely. We come into this world alone and we leave it all by our lonesome. We try hard to make a point out of our existence. We get jobs, buy cars, make love, go to church, take a political position, not take a political position, read treatises, we even get married Al in some fucking vain attempt to justify an existence to find meaning where there is none we take out the trash buy food smoke cigarettes do drugs eat ourselves into diabetic comas all whilst seemingly to effect oblivion to obliterate this terrible consciousness memories imploded by the passage of and ravages of time. Stars birth anew but we can't reset our consciousness and I ask sophomorically (,,not even a word,,). What does it all mean it means nothing it's just all juiced up bullshit meant to divert ones thoughts from the ultimate destruction of our minds by death or the interminable meaninglessness of it all the hate the love the in between the stoics pursuit of enlightenmenf atop a high peak in the andes go save me from my garbage heap of a mind it never stops doesn't leave me alone pesters me says I'm a POS which I am I have used women to have a comfortable life and now I'm reaping the rewards CHRONIC FUCKING PAIN DRIVING ME OUT OF MY FUCNING MIND BAAAAAAHHHHAHAHHAAHBABANA FUCK THIS SHIT. GIVR KE A BOTTLE!!!?? fuck u all fuck me all fucking life just sucks no food no smokes but I have enough u know just enough to get a bottle what fucking shit I hate this crap. I'll never have satisfaction. Let resentment poison my mind. The hate for all the bullshit for having to take all the blame for being called a delusional liar when I confront my family.

"to have a mind just is to have rational impressions [...] To define logikē phantasia as an impression whose content can be expressed in words is to get to the very heart of the human mind: we are above all the language animal, and lekta are the currency of agency, knowledge, and rationality.”—Vanessa de Harven, Rational Impressions and the Stoic Philosophy of Mind

And yet, rational impressions are not up to you, they lie outside your sphere of choice. ‘Your’ thoughts are not yours, not generated by prohairesis/you. Rational impressions are externals, providential indifferents. Logikē phantasiai are presented to you by Logos. Some of them are true thoughts, gifts for knowledge. Others are untrue thoughts, gifts for freedom. It's like God telling you: Choose wisely, you got everything you need for that.

I am jealous of this way of thinking. My emotions. Mainly just anger, kills me. I stopped taking testosterone and it has helped a lot...

What can some of you suggest?

EDIT/UPDATE: I have never had as much feedback/suggestions as this post. I would like to thank the entire community here. I really do appreciate everyone trying to assist me. Thank you all very much for giving me the time.

I need some help to move on with my life from my ex. It’s been 9 months since she’s been gone and I’ve just had trouble really finding my peace and moving on. I have a lot of worries and doubts about my life and I’m only 21. I’m looking for a stoic kind of podcast to possibly start my morning and get something positive going.

Withholding assent to a thought is improper when it contradicts a principle related to the thought.

For example, I can withhold assent to the thought “Honour your duty!” However, not honouring a duty harms my character—all that I am.

Because it contradicts the related principle “Gifts are means to the end of fulfilling the purpose of the gifted,” withholding assent to a call to duty is not only improper but self-harming, downright bad.

(Let me know your thoughts please, also I do apologize for bad grammar, I am reading books on grammar, and I do desire to improve, and I am trying to put an effort here for proper grammar usage, but I think my writing skills, or say sentence or word choice is not good exactly.)

To be clear what I am illustrating. The "getdisciplined" subreddit have some of the same posts at times. It is best if you go look at the subreddit yourself and compare, but I don't see stoicism as being disciplined either.

Maybe the stoic ideal is being perfectly disciplined at all times, but the act of being stoic, is not being disciplined nor is, the act of being stoic is controlling emotions.

It is having an understanding about life --- (a stoic philosophy or say attitude possibly)

Before I continue, I do not think stoicism beliefs and text of the past do not best correlate to the present. We are not close to death as we use to be, we are not needed to secure food for the winter or else we die etc.

So, I'm saying the need to be disciplined these days, are due to emotional whims of wanting to be a better person ultimately.

Anyways back to... It is having an understanding about life. Marcus Aurelius a roman emperor was a stoic, ----well to my understanding, it's what we classify his philosophy. Marcus wanted his book of mediations burned apparently, not sure if that is fact or not, but that wouldn't seem stoic to me.

Also, he said humans are social creatures, which as was surprised to me, because, of the whole expectation vs reality. When I first started to learn about stoicism. It's not solitude and controlling emotions at all.

To get to the point, what I am thinking right now in regard to stoicism itself, if you close your eyes and imagine a life lived, from birth to adult to death. Take into account all the possible experience you can have in life and hardships and so on, also consider the things you love, the things you hate, and etc.

You have to be honest with it, look at your past as well on how you lived etc., and that's your actual philosophy in regard to life.

In thinking this myself, I think most of us are lost in life, actually. Well, I'll speak for myself, I am lost. I lived a life of trying to be a well behave boy, and now i am a man and still listen to his mom and so on, and their shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

but what im trying to touch on even after doing that thought exercise you arent really free to have your own philosophy when you think about the school system and need to fit in and socialize, people going off in separate social groups and so on.

im starting to ramble but, in my situation i come off sheltered to people, and everytime i try to do something its like have to kill my father or mother im joking but it takes a arm and leg for me to reinvent myself or escape this mold im in

and i think adopting stoic beleifs will actually help my circumstrance, because im actually am pretty stoic but to accept and embrace my situation and circumstances in life, is not really ideal for my particular life.

Marcus Aurelius in reference to the stoic ideal, if he was born as a farmer, he would live that life and accept it and embrace it. I haven't really study other stoics, or stoic in relation to other stoics ideas.

ehh

anyways i think stoicism is not what people say it is often each time i read a post on stoicism. the full spectum of things, if you were to get a cramp in the leg, the stoic ideal would be to not panic or anything but let it pass, but accept the pain

which is not hard to do, if you ever took a cold shower, i found if you say to yourself, i will take this cold shower beforehand, and embrace the cold, you dont even freakout as much, you ease into it best that way if you prepare yourself a bit.

but again i think stoicsim is outdated, for instance in regard to texting, and you text a person who often goes cold and hot on you. like they ghost for days or somethings, its not like dont have any control on the matter.

i don't think its stoic to give up, on said relationship but i also don't think being stoic is being a fool either, its being rationally minded, also in regards to Marcus saying we are soical creatures,

i heard like he wouldnt be mad at those that try to upset him, because i think he thinks that if he was in their shows that would be the same role, or play or whatever he would be subject to do.

like I'm saying everyone does their role in society, that what Marcus said. for example, a baby is supposed to cry food. a poor person is supposed to beg for money etc.

which as Marcus said, congruence with nature, and something along the lines of ---well here is the definition i found

Serenity is achieved by aligning our conduct with the natural order and accepting what we cannot change.

hmm, so in regard to my situation and in how I lived, and anxiety barriers or mental blocks I have and ignorance.

I See how I'm out of place, or misaligned with the natural order and wasted time trying to change the unchangeable, or more so lack the power to influence and control my environment

for instance, I often try to discuss things or say issue with people and be nice and so on, but I often found being mean or a little upset or emotional is more effective at times and that annoys me.

to be clear what im saying, when you are nice with people they often try to get what they can from your kindness too often, picture talking to a little kid a brat. not to be rude or mean but to illustrate the point, to give a direct example, my Neice wanting to stay with me, vs her aunt, because her aunt don't let her do whatever she wants.

i dont want to let her do whatever she wants, im a bit disconnected with family atm, but it bugs me when she wants to consider the benefits of things in that way in regard to me, to herself, and maybe everyone is like that, "how will i benefit" when they engage with others.

ehh

​

anyways i think im starting to see how to change my act up in a way, that give me actual positive change, where im getting at is, in regard to the Serenity definition alone along with reflection on my life lived and current past experience as predicator to future life and so on

just umm

by lost i mean i keep trying to look for answer and understanding to why things are the way that they are, and i dont aim to blame anyone but myself, but i just dont understand why things are the way that they are, like i want to know the how or why of it.

but in regards to "natural order" of things and I switch perspectives from seeing like everything as trying something to understand but now as something that is to be true.

im not saying im generalizing here, at all in regards to my outlook to things

im saying to take my possible conjecture that i can have on life, reason from a probability sense, in congruence with nature. to deal with the reality around me better instead of not at all.

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting new results. many people my life included live a life that every day is the same basically,

all of this rambles right now, but ima see about behaving in this manner of like accepting the natures of people instead of trying to change them or be upset with them, im going to do as i decide without worry anymore of trying to control the splashes i make in my wake if that make sense

something else i heard recently in regard to communcation is having self awareness, right now, i may actually come of like a crazy person to people here, and i should try to account for how im perceived.

maybe i should wear a mask and control my persona better, because, its needed to be "the right person for the job:" to surrvive in these mordern times.

im actually having job trouble right now, and cant get a job, and why is that? being aware of the natural order of things, for isntance if my resume, is having spelling mistakes i might not being getting hired because of that because the recruiter wouldnt want to hire a person who cant put effort in their resume. etc.

but idk. just i care a lot to be real and true to myself and so on but im a loser at life and 27 male and i really don't want another 6 - 10 years to past like nothing and life is still the same for me.

​

I've been into Stoicism for a while and this quote really stuck with me. It's all in our minds.

Iv been with this girl for 2 years. We break up every 3 months or so and get back together and things get better every time. We moved together across the country but she didn’t like my family and left again. We kept talking and seeing each other and making plans then broke up again. Didn’t talk for a month. Then we do and she’s driving back and wants me to come with her.

It’s driving me bonkers. Other people say be stoic that you can’t control other people’s feelings. But hers keep going back and forth and it keeps fucking me up.

I guess the stoic way of looking at is I should except she gives up on me and then cares again and I can’t change that. What do I do about her caring again and wanting me to move back. Except that she’s always going to do this and try to forget about her or believe maybe this time it will work out?

Thanks in advance.

I am neither ruled by mind nor by body. What would that make me??

I’ve been having a rough week. I was dumped by a person I thought I had a future with. Don’t want to get into details, but since then I’ve felt like shit.

Today I talked to a friend of mine she’s older than me and it got me realizing that I ultimately gave this guy my mind on rent… even though we had blocked each other I was constantly remembering him, thinking about him, crying.

So I’ve finally decided to take my mind back from him. He can live with whoever he wants. I’m moving on with life.

As a human, you are nothing but prohairesis, the mind that chooses between assenting or not to the present thought.

The choosing mind is presented with nothing but one thought at a time. Thoughts are externals, parts Logos/God; as such, thoughts are providential (more than ’neither good nor bad’) — untrue thoughts are gifts for freedom, true thoughts are gifts for knowledge.

The situation at hand is nothing but the present thought; your life is nothing but the choice you make now about the present thought.

Stoicism is principled minimalism.

Misogi challenges monthly help me fail in a useful way where I can learn and reflect.

Check out the challenges if you're keen on marrying physical challenges with mental growth/introspection.

https://monthlymisogi.carrd.co/

Cheers friends!

In my 40s and I am feeling demotivated by everything and then someone comes along and it’s a long distance relationship and suddenly my life lights up and I have all sorts of energy and positive outlook on life. I recognize now that I got love bombed and then she breaks up and then we get back together again although I knew I was being love bombed which I thought was genuine at the time and now feels like heading for a break up after a fight and I am hurting.

She said she is going to get busy and various other reasons and won’t be able to call or text as much. I take that as I am not a priority for her. I imagine in my head that I can make her my priority and give all my affection and attention then if she says she loves me then why can’t she.

Also, because it’s long distance how long should she wait etc. I am insecure and the way I think is wrong perhaps but I believe if you love someone you find ways to keep in touch and wait for that person. In my mind I would wait why can’t you.

I also have attachment issue and believe in codependency. I feel like everything was a lie and I won’t be able to move it. I also feel like because of my age and thinking of mortality that I won’t find anyone else.

I also often have this feeling that life is slipping and the life I dreamed with her isn’t a reality anymore and it terrifies me. I am a complete mess right now.

I can’t focus on anything and in a rut. I hate myself for being so sensitive, being so dependent on others emotionally. The way I think that I can only be happy if I am with them etc.

Most nighst, I cry and then I feel a bit better and then the sadness comes back and the cycle continues. I am not motivated to do anything. I need to find a way to move on. How do I move on? When it seems impossible right now.

A kind request.

Anger is pain, appetite is pleasure. You harm yourself more through appetite/pleasure, because it occurs more often and you hardly ever dismiss it, although it's a lot easier to dismiss than anger/pain.

faults committed through appetite are graver than those committed through anger. For when a person loses his temper, he seems to turn his back on reason with a kind of pain and unconscious wringing of the heart, but when he offends through appetite and is overpowered by pleasure, he somehow seems more licentious and more unmanly in his wrongdoing. Theophrastus was right, then, and was speaking as befits a philosopher, when he maintained that wrongdoing associated with pleasure calls for harsher condemnation than that associated with pain. Generally speaking, in the latter case the offender is more like a person who has first been injured by another and has been driven by pain to lose his temper, while in the former he has been impelled to do wrong as a result of his own inclination, being carried away by appetite to act as he does.—Marcus 2.10

Failing to answer the stupid overthinking questions. Failing in winning the not so important stupid fights in our lives. Failing in give unnecessary importance to toxic people, toxic thoughts, toxic events. Failing in giving attention to thoughts that eats your productivity, life and refraining you from serving your responsibility in society.

Choose your fights wisely, decide which is worth winning and which is worthy failing.

Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.

~Marcus Aurelius

https://www.stoiczone.com/

If a stoic was a part of the exploited working class, how would they respond?

Our inherent fallibility enables our inherent capacity for rational consistency. Our potential for error enables our potential for being error-free.

A sage incapable of being wrong would be unfree, compelled to be always right. A compelled/unfree sage is an absurdity.

We are presented with untrue thoughts as gifts for freedom. Remove those gifts and we’d be slaves, compelled to always assent to thoughts.

I'm a young man who fell in love with another young man. We spent five months together then he had to return to his home country. I asked if he wanted to be in an official relationship but he avoided the question. He is very deeply in the closet and I am a complete secret in his life. We keep in contact, love each other and will be meeting again in a few months. He can be distant and cold, even to me. This made me believe what we had was gone or never present. But I am truly in love with him and I see now that he really does love me too.

My heart was torn to pieces when he left. I went on two dates shortly after he left. Why did I do this? Out of fear, I think, that I would lose him anyway. I did not want to be alone. One of the guys asked me for a kiss (a peck) and I only stared blankly and nodded my head in a vague assent. I was immediately disgusted and wrought with guilt. I did not want it, but I accepted. Out of courtesy? I don't know. I did not want it. I immensely regret my inability to stand up for my principles of truth and loyalty and for betraying the one I am truly in love with.

I can't tell another soul about this. How can I move forward without self-destructing?

And if you do, on what grounds?