i’m genuinely confused as to which one i am

im kinda im cared im using the wrong stuff plus i cant find enough of the stuff im looking for can anyone give good resources pretty please with a cherry on top?

Guys, I have two questions:

1. Does neutrality in conflicts have anything to do with dichotomies or other Socionics concepts? I have a close friend who NEVER stands up for herself or expresses her opinion during conflicts in our group. Even when someone does something wrong or is being rude, she says nothing and acts like nothing happened, always in an "I'm friends with all of you" mindset — very passive and neutral. She just goes with the flow, almost as if she doesn’t even notice when someone is in the wrong or is upset. I’m curious if this could indicate Fe valuing over Fi? I’m still new to Socionics
2. About her type. I’ve been thinking she might be an EII, SEI, or maybe even IEI? Some more details about her: she’s very artistic, dresses creatively (different styles every day), likes making handmade gifts, and enjoys national popular music. She isn’t into mainstream stuff or spending much time on social media. She’s really easygoing, always up for going out anywhere. She thinks she’s socially inadequate and doesn’t trust her social skills; she's very quiet around new people and a bit insecure. When I first met her, I had to take the initiative, but once we got close, she opened up and talked more freely. he’s very disciplined and holds herself to high standards. She tries to be the best in class and is the most responsible in her friend group, always finishing school assignments ahead of time. If she doesn’t do well, she feels terrible. She feels more confident in exact sciences (like math) and says she’s not very good in humanities subjects (like essay writing). She’s open-minded > conservative. Caring with those she's close with. She likes non-usual conversations and non-usual people. She’s terrible at sports. I know this is a very superficial description lol but do you guys have any takes on what her type might be?

Typed myself as EII. Always had trouble letting go of stress, having "internal chill". Externally I seem chill but internally I'm rumbling.

I find my stress can easily be affected by external forces, mean people, beta quadra..lol

a lot of bad people are beta quadra because of low fi, si, ne, te in turn they are actually mentally ill in some aspects, they yell a lot, often are harsh with se and low si means comfort and peacefulness is not valued, but I am talking about psychopathic betas in this regard which there are levels. most of society is dehumanizing because most people are beta quadra. I can’t say why they are the most common but unfortunately they are.

I want to record myself answering questions and post it on this sub, so if anyone has any specific questions they want to me to answer just comment them here.

Btw I’m also looking at Augusta Project’s questionnaire. I’ll go through some but not all since 40 questions is a lot.

I'm just writing about types around me. I work with a ti-ILE/fe-SEI couple, an si-LSE, 3 EIIs, a te-SLI, an LSI, 2 ESIs and an LIE. There are about 4 people in this group I haven't typed yet. Knowing socionics while heavily interacting with others for many hours feels very strange at times. Is it creepy to be thinking about people's types when they're naturally interacting with one another? or naturally socializing with me? It would feel less weird if they knew what socionics was. It's alienating? I use it to mitigate conflict ie knowing when others will not understand you. Also I find that the easiest types to be friends with are not my duals. Yes there's always that silent backup that you don't need to ask for, but it isn't necessarily always conscious -we can exist alongside each other and work together without any drama, but I wouldn't call it friendship. Activity partners are usually natural allies for as long as you don't try to teach them too much, it will start an argument lol. As an IEE I get along with ILEs very easily because we both know how to be productive and have fun at the same time. Also Te-SLIs are kinda bitching all the time. So are Fe-SEI. They're the worst bitchers. Also duals seem to always be at each other for one thing or another if looking from the outside, even though I know it works for them. I dunno, just my two scents.

I have been jumping back and forth on being LII or ILE and every time I decide on being either type, evidence starts popping up proving that I am not this type. Maybe I have a flawed understanding of the functions and how they work together and honestly I haven't looked into Socionics in a long time (last I looked at any socionics content was the end of COVID).

Ever since learning about Socionics and then dropping it (lost interest) I have never been able to settle on a type.

Is anyone able to help me or point me in the right direction to get this question out of my head? It's been really bothering me and it's a question that has been living rent free in my head for years.

Thanks in advance.

An ILI C is an LIE using Fe+ which are very sensitive and resistant and tell others to hide their struggles? Or an ILE who is Fi polr who don't know who he or she likes or doesnt like?

Too many people says this is an Enneagram 7 and VLEF. Some says it's SO/SX5 who come cross as very as ENTP with 584 and the description of the instinctual variants tells u that this So/Sx5 behaviour is not a energetic integration to 8.

some says it should be 784 Tritype that happy face and funny face is and expressions and high energy and boredom aren't 5 it's ILI who is a 7 and should also be an LIE Ni ????????

Some even says So5 should be always 3 fixed And 8 fix is SX5. Nwoooo broooo

Bro I am now hugely confused and don't know anything anymore. Bro please tell me why I can type everyone but not mee???????? Can you please help now?

Hello,

anyone experienced with it some more?

https://www.pasf.org/model1.php

It has offered pretty brutal insights on social/criminal typology issues, such as this:

https://www.pasf.org/pasfj/b64.pdf

I am reading into it and find interesting correlations with the more dichotomy-based schools of Socionics; it is pretty much a set of eight basic types that correspond to Talanov functions ( u/socionavigator, you may be interested in reading that) and features small groups like stress resistance in literature such as this: https://www.pasf.org/pasfj/dim4mh.pdf

(HTML version: https://www.pasf.org/pasfj/dim4mh.htm)

@ u/Smart_Curve_5784, by extent u/BeCool87, that's the only other mention of that small group I'm aware of and quite obscure

EDIT:

the basic dichothomies they are using are

Internalizer/Externalizer (well)

Rigid/Flexible (Rational/Irrational?)

Acceptable/Unacceptable (Declatim/Questim?)

and in a journal,

Goal/Task-oriented was proposed (Result/Process?)

[After a closer look it is far from Strategic/Tactic, which means the proposed 4th dichotomy really doesnt help incorporate sociotypes further than Talanov functions, but the texts on stress do correlate nicely]

thus:

ERA - LIE ENTj, ESE ESFj (De)

ERU - EIE ENFj, LSE ESTj (Qe)

EFA - SLE ESTp, IEE ENFp (anti-Qi)

EFU - SEE ESFp, ILE ENTp (anti-Di)

IRA - EII INFj, LSI ISTj (Di)

IRU - LII INTj, ESI ISFj (Qi)

IFA - SEI ISFp, ILI INTp (anti-Qe)

IFU - SLI ISTp, IEI INFp (anti-De)

PAS - peripheral, central sociotypes (Talanov function)

https://youtu.be/x0VpGFljZKs?si=5zLCu3js7MwStIhF

I will probably delete this later, but someone told me to post a video of me talking about myself so here is one!

And the link below should be my questionnaire

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12of0q795p_cmu6RrMkBZhbEqdXjJU8N7LdMOf3tm7HM/edit

Fairly new to socionics, so i did a 40q questionnaire.

Feel free to ask follow up questions if any!
I am thinking Te/Fi and Ni/Se axis but not sure of the positions.

Section Te :

1. How do you work? Why do people go to work? Are there any parameters that determine whether you can do work or not? What are they?

I either work or I do not. I have proclivity towards work which is stimulating and interesting. It happens in bursts of energy - Periods of 11 hours a day every week followed by a month of cricket, not much (unless I have a deadline, this is how I approach it if there was no deadline/athaurity etcetera). ADHD makes it a pain in the Ass. When I do work there is not a lot of structure to it and I do not think much. I just have general plan and general vision of what it should look like. Most people work to survive, though to me it seems like a meaningless existence. Just working like a zombie and waiting to get it over with it sounds like a nightmare that one lives everyday - I am inspired by people who love what they do.

2. How do you determine the quality of work? How do you determine the quality of a purchase? Do you pay any attention to it?

Depends on it's objective (can be self defined too) - wether it fulfills it, other than basic objective I also look into what is the *extra* value in this. it is the extras that elevate work from normal baseline to better.

To determine the quality of a purchase -If online I look into reviews, preferably the one with pictures and then I order. But if I am physically in a shop.. I have my eyes and hands and I ask if there is a warranty card etcetera.

3. There is a professional next to you. How do you know they are a professional? How do you evaluate their skill?

Watch them do the skill + Portfolio of work plus I evaluate how they talk about it (they do not even have to be  jumpy/nerdy about it). Though..if someone has a good portfolio yet they have a bit of nonchalant don’t care attitude about what they are doing then I may not trust them because that shows lack of dedication. Professionals respect what they do. You do not have to light up like a lightbulb over your work either….but there has to be an energy to it.

4. If you struggle to do something, how do you fix that? Do you know if your performance is better or worse than others?

usually a result of emotional imbalance or conflicting wants…try to heal it.

performance is better or worse than others? . Ok so since there is keyword “other” here …we look at others and grade ourselves relative to others with our metrics of what is good and bad of course. I judge it based on the extras..because usually people have base bare minimum figured out.

5. How do you measure the success of a job? What standard do you use? Do you pay attention to it? When should you deviate from this standard?

If it meets the goal I wanted, the job is success, if it does not then it is technically a failure. 

Though with time I have developed a cope for it…. *It is not a failure but it is not a success either.if that supposed “failure” helps you do better for the next job. .then it was the part of another job all along.*

Still a failure though honestly.

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2. Section Ti :

1. What is a whole? Can you identify its parts? Are the parts equivalent to the whole?

Wholeness of an object is the consideration of all its elements as a single unit. Inside the whole there may be many parts that work individually… but something as a whole is unified manifestation of individual working and interaction between its parts.As for the parts.

I can have two groups of orchestras. Each group can have same number of instruments yet they may not give the same “whole”Here I am assuming my parts are tangible physical objects (musicians, instruments)But while writing this I am thinking….what if I consider the intangible (timing, cooperation, harmony) as a part too?in that case parts can be equivalent to the whole - provide you KNOW all the parts, which you probably do not.

2. What does “logical” mean? What is your understanding? Do you think that it correlates with the common view? How do you know you are being logical?

If it makes sense and if it is consistent…and if I agree with its base assumption. Because every logic has a base assumption/postulate. It should be backed by proof OR reliable facts. Logic is not a one way street. The arrow has to go both ways. You cannot build some bullshit logic which does not match with reality - if It does not then the onus of proof lies on you and every part will be scrutinized by feedback.I think I derive logic from facts and proofs and from things I see around myself and it usually a very general logic like..”power corrupts people because——” and now this nugget is in repository… like a block..I may use it somewhere else.

3)What is hierarchy? Give examples of hierarchies. Do you need to follow it? Why or why not? Explain how hierarchy is used in a system you are familiar with.

Hierarchy is natural importance/respect/power of one element above the other.So if your manager has enough power to fire you.. he is above you in power hierarchy.Biggest example of hierarchy - Asian society - it is self explanatory, does not even have to be explained.

“Do not talk back to elders” is a form of hierarchy

“Women should be subservient” is a form of hierarchy“

This skin color is more superior” is a form of hierarchy

Hierarchies that breed major injustice are evil and should be abolished. I respect normal hierarchies but that does not mean that they are infallible. As long as they are fallible and can be questioned then it is fine.

4. What is classification? How does classification work? Why is it needed and where is it applied? Give examples.

Classification works by grouping elements that share an attribute in one group/category and that is how it works.

Classification is needed so that I can know about this element by just knowing the category. To group thing that are alike and consequently finding a pattern to it.. these are blocks.

So I know whale is classified mammal so I know that whale has no gills and gives birth.It is so natural that I am struggling to verbalize why it is important…it is everywhere..it is like trying to describe color. it is applied everywhere.

5. Are your ideas consistent? How do you know they are consistent? How do you spot inconsistency in others’ ideas?

Though I try to be consistent, I am aware that I am full of contradictions. I twist my ideas to adjust them to my own agenda like everyone else.

How I spot inconsistency is through -contradictions and  looking into the base postulate or sometimes even base “emotion” of that logic. For example base emotion of many conspiracy theories is fear and distrust ..If logic comes from a place of superiority/fear/neediness then…….I do not respect it but i may listen to it if i see merit.

if it is concrete like say - events of a war, conspiracy theories, science..then it should be backed by evidence or  a lot of supporting information that strongly points towards your conclusion. it should not be a one way street of "oh i just build shit up in my head and have no backing" or "I just listen to what people say without thinking."
If you respect the subject you are talking about you go both ways.

When I have to go into “definition” of every terms and turn the argument into linguistic fest, I get aggravated because that is just splitting hair...

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3. Section Se :

1. Can you press people? What methods do you use? How does it happen?

Yes, by repeating my points, pestering them, or convincing them that their reasoning is wrong.

negotiating etcetera.For some people too much aggression can hurt people's ego and that creates more road blocks and makes them MORE stubborn. It is easier to press a reasonable person than an egotistical person. Though often times people complain that I raise my voice or is too stubborn.

2. How do you get what you want? What do you do if you have to work to get what you want?

I look into ways and options to get it and then chose the best course. if I really want it.. i work for it.

3. How do you deal with opposition? What methods do you use to defend your interests?

I just confront them and ask them wtf bruh let's talk. In that I can be emotional/manipulative/harsh depending on what will work. 

4. When do you think it’s ok to occupy someone’s space? Do you recognize it

I don’t think it is wrong to occupy space but I understand that people may not like it, so I expect them to tell me and i will respect it and be mindful. People are responsible for their own boundaries.

5. Do others think you are a strong-willed person? Do you think you have a strong will?

Yes most people think I can do anything..which sometimes gives me imposter syndrome. I am a bit protective of my will because I see people around me losing their will to the society and I fear that “what if” I get infected too and unknowingly get manipulated.

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4. Section Si :

1. How do you satisfy your physical senses? What examples can you give? What physical experiences are you drawn to?

eh……? I mean…lot of time I feel what I need but I still don’t do it because it does not seem that important to me. Physical sensations are like background noise to me.I am drawn to camping.

2. How do you find harmony with your environment? How do you build a harmonious environment? What happens if this harmony is disturbed?

I do not understand the question? What is harmony?

3. What does comfort mean to you? How do you create it?

Comfort Is blanket and fire place?…. And drinking soup while reading a book. Sometimes I create those environments for myself but when i do …i realise I was hyping it too much in my head and it is not that big of a deal. True comfort comes from peace of mind, having a good balance of everything and you create it by growing as a human being

4. How do you express yourself in your hobbies? How do you engage yourself with those things?

I express according to what I feel that day.

5. Tell us how you’d design any room, house or an office. Do you do it yourself, or trust someone else to do it? Why?

If I have an aesthetic In mind ..maybe a victorian bedroom so I will find all the pieces that give a cohesive victorian look...it is a fun process to look at all the pieces and think of a design.. Sound like a good creative project.

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5. Section Fe :

1. Is it acceptable to express emotions in public? Give examples of inappropriate expression of emotions.

people should be able to express their emotions in public as long as it is not inappropriate or too dramatic.one can state their emotion in a more toned down and calm manner..Like you can look sad and shed 2-3 tears.. but outright crying like a madman is stupid.

2. How do you express your emotions? Can you tell how your expressions affect others in a positive or negative way?

I have no business laughing at a funeral or crying hysterically at someone birthday. Other than the extreme I do not care.

Can you tell how your expressions affect others in a positive or negative way?

I can usually tell how.. I just want to live..but I feel bad if others feel bad and they do not deserve it, if they deserve it, then it is fine.

3. . In what situations do you feel others’ feelings? Can you give examples of when you wanted to improve the mood of others?

If they describe it and I see it in their face then I can feel extreme empathy and I try to talk them out of it. If I want to improve someone mood I just try to make them laugh or take them out on a walk and drink tea together.

4. How do others’ emotions affect you? How does your internal emotional state correlate or contrast with what you express?

they do affect me more if those people hold some weight to me. What I feel is what I express. If I feel annoyance…it will show on my face….and I try to hide it. I have low control over my facial expressions..so if I feel something intensely even though I would not want to show it…it will show somehow and people will catch up on it fast.and subconsciously I THINK I want to show it…because I want people to know, especially if they have disappointed me because it is easier for me to hide sadness than hide other emotions.

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6. Section Fi :

1. How can you tell how much emotional space there is between yourself and others? How can you affect this space?

huh…???? Well they telling me emotional things so they probably trust me and I just act on the moment..idk how do I effect it..i effect it by being a listening ear and nodding.

2. How do you determine how much you like or dislike someone else? How does this affect your relationships?

dislike many things in people so I can tell what I like in people - Honesty/drive to be better/funny/wise/strong.. I hate copey and spineless people.

3. How do you move from a distant relationship to a close one? What are the distinguishing characteristics of a close relationship?

you just get close with time and talk.. in a close relationship they listen to you and you listen to them and they stay long. Oh yeah both feel understood. Feeling understood is very key…and willingness to communicate

4. How do you know that you are a moral person? where do you draw your morality from? Do you believe others should share your beliefs on what’s moral? Why?

I score low in morals in big 5, yet I think I am very moral because most of my morals come from high sympathy for other people, respect for peoples volition/choices and basic society standard. I think I am very moral, Everyone should be moral on basic ..very basic things.. because those morals may help the society function in a just manner.so base morals of - be kind, be honest, be unbiased, be justice oriented should be followed.. these are base… everyone should have these basis or this world will become law less. I detest people who do not follow “obvious” morals ( especially if it harms someone else for no reason).

To me, the purpose of morality is to reduce suffering, run a society and harbour a safe environment.

5. Someone you care about is acting distant to you. How do you know when this attitude is a reflection of your relationship?At first

Usually I do not realise they are being distant..until they become too distant that anyone can see it, I was not sure if I was distant with my friend until other people hinted that..
then I felt neurotic that maybe I was insensitive AGAIN..but honestly..just ask them why, what happened. People can have tough phases.. and If i realise that the problem is ME yet they don't tell me that it is me..then I kill the relationship. fuck it.

People should be vocal rather than just being distant out of nowhere. what am I? A mind reader?

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7. Section Ne :

1. How can you tell someone has the potential to be a successful person? What qualities make a successful person and why?

they have drive and resources to do so. Maybe their parents are rich and they are driven.inner strength makes a successful person

2. Where would you start when looking for a new hobby? How do you find new opportunities and how do you choose which would be best?

if something looks beautiful and captivating to the point I think..damn I wanna do this.

3. How do you interpret the following statement: “Ideas don’t need to be feasible in order to be worthwhile.” Do you agree or disagree, and why?

feasibility should be one of the metrics to measure an Idea but lack of feasibility does not make it completely useless - just less likely to succeed. Maybe with adjustments or time it will be feasible some day.

4. Describe your thought process when relating the following ideas: swimming, chicken, sciences. Do you think that others would draw the same or different connections?

huh…. Ok....  What? Swimming.. chicken .. bird…a birth that swims …. Duck.....duck has webbed feet so it floats because SCIENCE. I think people would think the same because it is pretty straight forward.

5. How would you summarize the qualities that are essential to who you are? What kind of potential in you has yet to be actualized and why?

Humane, Just, honest, driven, sharp..  potential yet to be actualized?? - Freedom.

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8. Section Ni :

1. How do people change? Can you describe how various events change people? Can others see those changes?

People usually do not change at base level, only their toppings change but pizza base remains the same.People change with time, experience and feedback… but only at surface level MOST of the time.those who change and undergo serious metamorphosis are rare.

2.  How do you feel and experience time? Can time be wasted? How?

Time passes slowly when you are kissing someone.. time passes slowly when you are doing a plank..yet it passes very fast when I see my small sibling grow to my height.we cannot control how time passes around us…the most we can do is to just do it justice and live it to the fullest.Time can be wasted definitely.. but it depends on what you consider valuable - productivity? Time with family? Eating good food?  But it can be a waste..to me…mindless puppet actions are a waste of life..not even time.. but life is more than time.

3. Is there anything that cannot be described with words? What is it? If so, how can we understand what it is if language does not work?

of course..a lot of time, different words from other languages can describe something your language could not describe and that itself is a proof…. When you don’t have words for it…you make it a poetry.. that is what art is.because when you have no singular word..you have to be creative with how you express it..art is war waged against ineffable beauty…

4. How do you anticipate events unfolding? How can you observe such unfoldments in your environment?

It needs a fundamental understanding of causality and that comes from observation and patterns, .you have to notice first and let the pattern develop.. ultimately you would know what will lead to what in what situation… and sometimes you just know

5. In what situations is timing important? How do you know the time is right to act? How do you feel about waiting for the right moment?

In every situation…a time to act is right when it will give the most optimum result.  though I am not good at it but I know that it is important.but…I do not like to wait to0o much…..I am the type to watch videos in 2x speed.  I think I “know” when the time is right..yet I struggle to implement it. I am either too lazy to strike when the iron is hot OR i strike before the iron is hot.. But while striking I DO know about the iron..yet i take the wrong action.

I created this form to quell my curiosity.

As sociotype.xyz, sociotype.com, World Socionics Society's blog and I'm sure many other Socionics sites have assigned the colours red, blue, yellow, and green to the four quadras as part of their designs. However, some do assign it differently. (with exception to Beta, who always gets red XD).

So, I was wondering if ordinary Redditors had their own views about how to assign these theme colours.

Discuss.

(I will post the results maybe when the responses die down, if i ever get any.)

I've taken a shot at providing descriptions for the information element dichotomies. I'm not trying to provide an exhaustive breakdown of each element, but hopefully it somewhat gets at the differences between them.

Dichotomies

Epistemology

Epistemological internalism (Fi, Fe, Ni, Ne) vs externalism (Ti, Te, Si, Se). Here, the dichotomy is akin to the difference between subjective & objective justification. Personality-wise, this emerges in the importance someone places in things like belief, personal bias and objective "fact".

• Internalism asserts that subjective beliefs or desires underpin one's reasoning, regardless of whatever "facts" can be identified. Therefore, these elements are most concerned with information pertaining to subjective beliefs, biases or desires.

• Externalism presupposes the opposite - that "objective facts" are required to underpin such justifications, independent of one's supposed beliefs or desires. Therefore, these elements are most concerned with information that helps to establish objective fact.

From this, we might say that Pragmatists (ST types) are the most psychologically externalistic, and the least internalistic. Humanitarians (NF types) are the opposite.

Rendition

Figurativism (Si, Se, Fi, Fe) vs abstraction (Ti, Te, Ni, Ne). Here it's about degrees of representation & recognizability, akin to the difference between figurative (representational) and abstract art. Personality-wise, this emerges in the importance someone places in something's accessibility or immediacy to others.

• To be figurative is to represent things (the world, others, oneself etc.) in a way that is easily consumable or identifiable. It can be metaphorical, it can be fantastical, it can be grounded etc. - but its form & themes are always easy to apprehend / communicate.

• To be abstract is the opposite - this is to represent things in a way less viscerally apprehensible, where the form or themes are not so easily digested at first glance. It promotes a sense of openness to discovery & interpretation, but not necessarily in an overtly "challenging" or provocative way.

From this, we might say that Researchers (NT types) are the most psychologically abstract and the least figurative. Socials (SF types) are the opposite.

Psychology

Here, I'll propose a difference between so-called psychological permeation (Ti, Fe, Ni, Se) and transience (Fi, Te, Si, Ne). Broadly speaking, I will define this as being about one's relationship to the psychological makeup of oneself and others.

• Permeative information is that which is invasive, provocative, undermining, underpinning or unsettling of one's (or someone else's) psychological makeup ("I feel a disturbance in the force" / "let that sink in"). It is disrespectful of both psychological attacks & barriers. This is parasitic by nature, where a guest thrives at the expense of its host - a kind of pervasive adaption to the psychological makeup of others (or even oneself) as a measure of survival (what is strong thrives over time at the expense of what is weak). Here it is common to "imprint" onto things, or to be "imprinted" upon ("leave a dent in the universe").

• Transient information is that which aids to escape, minimise, make use or otherwise live with the effect of so-called "permeative" information without actually undermining it. This is commensal by nature, where a guest thrives without affecting its host. It seeks to minimise one's "undue" effect (and that of others), to make the most of one's lot and dutifully live & learn in wisened harmony with one's environment.

When push comes to shove, we might say that Beta types value psychological permeation at the expense of psychological transience. Deltas are the opposite.

Scope

Here, I'll propose a difference between informational comprehensiveness (Ti, Fe, Si, Ne) and occlusion (Fi, Te, Ni, Se). Broadly speaking, I will define this as being about assumptions regarding the scope of information one is interested in.

• Comprehensiveness reflects an attitude most prevalent in situations of low population density & high abundance of resources. These are elements that serve to broaden information, to expand one's (or someone else's) perspective, to account for participants or possibilities that may have been missed or neglected. This is cooperative and mutual by nature, maximising the potential benefit between actors.

• Occlusion reflects an attitude most prevalent in situations of high population density and scarcity of resources. These are elements that serve to occlude information, to narrow one's (or someone else's) perspective - hiding, pushing away or scanning for information in a way that is most pertinent to personal survival. This is competitive by nature, minimising the potential benefit that members of a population can gain from each other.

When push comes to shove, we might say that Gamma types value informational occlusion at the expense of comprehensiveness. Alphas types are the opposite.

Process

Informational staticity (Ti, Fi, Ne, Se) vs dynamism (Te, Fe, Ni, Si). Here, the dichotomy is akin to the difference between something being "at rest" vs "in motion", or goals vs methods.

• Static information is concerned with static "snapshots" of something, as if it were at rest or unchanging. It moves to inform about something's goals or state.

• Dynamic information is concerned with dynamic processes, as if something were in motion or transforming. It moves to inform about the methods something engages in.

Static types are most consciously aware of static information, and least consciously aware of (but easily moved by) the dynamic processes occurring around it. Dynamic types are the opposite.

| Group | Types | Staticity | Dynamism | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Static | LII, ILE, ESI, SEE, LSI, SLE, IEE, EII | Mental | Vital | Dynamic | ESE, SEI, LIE, ILI, IEI, EIE, LSE, SLI | Vital | Mental

Rationality

Informational irrationalism (Ni, Si, Ne, Se) vs rationalism (Ti, Fi, Te, Fe).

• Rational elements form attitudes & relationships regarding information.

• Irrational elements gather new information.

Rational types can come off as considered or rigid, attached to their previously-formed attitudes until they are forced to re-evaluate them when they become ineffective. Irrational types come off as impulsive or receptive, eagerly reforming not just their own attitudes but the attitudes of others, as information presents itself.

| Group | Types | Irrationality | Rationality | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Irrational | ILE, SEI, SLE, IEI, SEE, ILI, SLI, IEE | Accepting | Producing | Rational | LII, ESE, LSI, EIE, ESI, LIE, EII, LSE | Producing | Accepting

Source

Informational introversion (Ti, Fi, Ni, Si) vs extroversion (Te, Fe, Ne, Se).

• Introverted elements are concerned with information regarding the interactions between objects - their perceptions & reactions.

• Extroverted elements are concerned with information regarding these objects directly.

Introverts presumptively orient themselves around the relationships and interactions found between objects. On the other hand, extroverts presumptively orient themselves around the objects themselves.

| Group | Types | Introversion | Extroversion | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Introverted | LII, SEI, LSI, IEI, ESI, ILI, EII, SLI | Bold | Cautious | Extroverted | ILE, ESE, SLE, EIE, SEE, LIE, LSE, IEE | Cautious | Bold

Elements

Proposed Element Descriptions

A set of inexhaustive descriptions for the elements derived from the above traits.

| | Type of Information | Description | -- | -- | -- | -- | Ti | Systemic | A factual description of abstract, pervasive relationships between objects | Fi | Personal | The most viscerally relevant biases that transiently relate objects together | Te | Economical | Abstracting the factual, transient motion of an object most relevant to its goals | Fe | Emotional | An object's motion that permeates a visceral description of its subjective state | Si | Close | Sensing a transient, factual description of the visceral dynamics between objects | Ni | Distant | A pervasive bias toward the most relevant, inaccessible dynamics between objects | Se | Present | A pervasive sense of the most factually-relevant, visceral form of an object | Ne | Absent | A transient bias toward a more descriptive, inaccessible form of an object

Shared Traits

Tetrachotomies

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vUgr-TPYEUZ2VtGvh1qx8Oqza9eknMey-pMPK4YjXao/edit

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After relentless pondering, levitating in #deep introspection, I concluded that my best fit has to be EIE. Coincidentally, it was at the exact same moment when I suddenly understood why EIE is the best type in general. Let me share my findings with you:

Disclaimer: I already see those comments from only the most considered of you: Namely, that "there is no best type", maybe that "every type has its strengths and weaknesses", or, "that every type appreciates different types". To those of you on their way to farm those free upvotes, I can only suggest that you grow a fkin spine and accept reality. - sorry SLI, you simply won't cut it on the way to the pedestal. Go fiddle with your woodwork or something.

Extraversion

A bit unnecessary to explain, but extraversion is a must for any type that could even be considered "best". Don't agree? Then ponder why Jung had to write a whole book to convince the rest of psychology that introversion is not a disability, you autoerotic basement dwellers.

Yes, I know: We all went through puberty and had the phase where we rediscovered ourselves as this misunderstood crybaby who is so smart, deep, and simply not in the mood for people. Well, at least EIE pulls that off with style. To all others, who still associate depth over breadth with introversion: I can't help you. Wake up: You got fooled by some teenage movie.

Intuition

C'mon! You know it! I mean, sensing. . . - Well, there will follow numerous points why valued Se is necessary to be somewhat part of the plot. But still, the chance for sensors is 50/50 to have Si in their ego block, and this where shit really goes south.

But even Se: In the ego block it's simply too much. Attractive, sure, but there can only be one best type and sensing over intuition simply misses the mark. Kind of hard to describe . . . but what can I do: LSI is my dual.

Feeling

For all the thinkers out there I'll make this really straight forward: School trains you in thinking; it rewards you for rigorous thought, clarity, convincing argumentation. Any intelligent person won't come out of education being a little dum-dum, not knowing left from right, "don't understanding your complex socionics angle".

Compare this with the huge blind-spot thinkers can develop if none of us feely fairies give them a hint or two, ideally at early age (sand box level). Your disability to navigate social life is not only holding you back, but also boring to look at / interact with. I mean, I can get the idea how a Ti brick-head of a nerd is somewhat cute, but everything has its limits.

Se mobilizing

Already talked told you about Se, but let us investigate why the mobilizing position is the only sweet-spot for Se. Not only does this mean Si polr (more on that next), but Se has to be valued in a type we could even consider "best". I mean, peripherals: Just a little blow and they fall apart.

This is an over-arching scheme but I think we should address it right here: Imagine you write a story, direct a move, etc. - anything with people and a plot. Guess what kind of characters you don't want in your plot: peripherals. They simply lack presence; it would the most boring story ever. We want to look at people who want stuff. We want to see a movie where things happen. Project that idea to real life and you get the point.

Si polr

You know what's boring? - Eating. And good luck with convincing me otherwise. People who take eating as some kind of "hobby" always have to live with deciding if they want to get fat or happy. Doesn't sound so cool to me. Si polr on the other hand lives as far as possible from such dilemma: It is like being a fkin monk, modulo all the things that makes you fall asleep as soon as he starts talking.

Btw, you know what's boring as well? Sleeping. Ever had problems keeping awake? Well, jokes on you; and don't forget to do the dishes when you wake up!

(On a side note: Have you ever had problems in a supervisor relationship? Well, what if it is literally the "mediator". Even EIE's supervisor is afraid to speak up.)

Te role

Simple equations:

• Strong valued Te is a hamster in a wheel, forgetting why he even runs all day.
• Weak valued Te is hating yourself for never getting shit done.
• Weak unvalued Te is downright vanity in resignation.

You could argue that demo Te is nice. I agree. But Te role still gets it done somehow, takes responsibility and accepts that it's better to get used to getting shit done. Staying independent, you know. This is preferable, as it leaves room for something even better in the demo spot.

inferior thinking

But . . . but . . . l-l-logic! I know this will be a hard pill to swallow, but listen: Have you ever asked yourself how EIE LSI dualization plays out: Why these two should have fun together? Ti lead comes as a "set in stone" attitude. Everything already has its structure, is clear, etc. Ti leads can't see shit through all the frameworks they've already between them and reality. They hate the rattling, the questioning, the discussion, the inspiration, as much as they love it.

You know what you need for an interesting discussion: Substance. And it is precisely Ti seeking that enables this sweet-spot of not having to be a brick head, you know: interacting with ideas freely, creatively, in a playful manner, while still being sensitive to structure, loving regularities, etc. Imagine enjoying some math as a leisure activity - just to calm down a little, from all that hard being the life of the party.

Ni creative

What's cooler than Ni? - Bursts of it. Precise, directed bursts of it. Not sure who you are? Ni creative's got you. It will tell you, frequently, with casual significance. And you will be able to write a thesis about why yesterday was the definitive turning point in your life. It is what complements the misunderstood teen in you: You have an endless gallery to back it up.

You will be the deep one; the introspective one; the one who thought about each little nuance in themselves. This will make you understand people. You will recognize them as parts of yourself. The difference is that they are stuck: What you wore a weekend, they leave on their whole life. If only you had lead function complementing this . . . "Wow. How can you know this? I did not even tell you!", "Flabbergasting! You expressed a thought I wanted to express for years!" - You hear: "Man! You are so much like me!", and you think quietly: Well, kind of - you are one piece, my life is the puzzle.

Ne demonstrative

"Gifted."; defying the odds, surprising people with your skills, creative, in everything you approach. There isn't even anything to explain here: Prevalent Ne is a must for anything that can be considered cool. But valued Ne leads again right into the peripheral trap.

With Ne demo the Ne stuff is like woven into everything you do. It doesn't get any better than that.

Fi ignoring

Imagine: social-anxiety. Imagine: holding back with something beautiful because it might come off insensitive to some self-proclaimed butterfly across the room. You know who cares a lot about authenticity? - Fi ego. They in fact care so much that they spend the majority of their RAM figuring out the best compromise of how to be "themselves" while still staying respectful to every arbitrary "value" anybody could ever have. This draft of a compromise is then what they will call "authenticity". Ridiculous? I agree.

You cannot know what freedom means without Fi ignoring. It is the unbothered attitude we all know from our favorite League champion: "I never hurt anyone. It is the performance - that kills."

Fe lead

Again, a hard pill to swallow for most you, but this is the phenomenology of Fe lead: When EIE talks, you shut the fk up. When EIE gets asked something, you listen eagerly. You might love them; you might hate them; but you crave their answer, as it feeds both of your desires.

I honestly think that other people cannot even comprehend how EIE's Fe lead feels. You are self-absorbed, but so many people love it. Like in a movie, you understand social situations best through your lens as the protagonist. You don't even hide it, and still, people want you around. Se leads want you next to them, like an angle smoothing out the sharp edges of their pressuring presence. Ti leads want you for obvious reasons. But even other people, groups in general, seem to almost depend on you: "omg it was so boring; you weren't there". Because in the end, no matter how often you fkd up, stepped on someone's toes; it is you who leads to shit happening. You are expected to do it. That's why they shut up. That's why they listen.

You speak the language of people fluently without equivalent; in words, in tone, in looks, in every little detail, without even realizing it. No matter how long you prepare speeches, they turn out even better when it matters. In fact, any audience increases your strength tenfold.

Only a snapshot of a reaction is enough to make you adapt your presence. You don't even realize it. Quite the contrary: in early life you project all these qualities into other people. You expect them to follow the same approach as you. You ask yourself: "Out of all things one can be, why would you chose this"? You ask friends, you advise, you inspire; in all of this you lead by example. Every gestures of yours sells your point. Then, finally, much later you realize that other people don't have this choice, the freedom you take for granted.

In your best version, you are the principle: "Show, don't tell." Everything in you falls right into place under this one, central idea. Not a mere person, but an example of something. An alien of sorts, inhuman, feeding off a cause; sacrificing all humanity in it with only one goal: to convince. Of course, you won't even realize that, at least not in the moment. After all, what they call "convincing", you know simply as existing.

This is the best version, but I think to determine the best, we should measure the best. Here are three names. Study them to study EIE: Dominique Francon (from The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand), Friedrich Nietzsche, The Judge (from Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy). They should help you to triangulate.

Hello lovely people of reddit! I'm kinda new to the Socionics system as I've only studied mbti and Enneagrams. The functions look very similar to mbti's cognitive functions but I've heard it's not exactly the same. Based on what I've heard so far, I believe I'm either EII or SEI, but again I'm not 100% sure. Are there any easy to understand resources available for beginners? Because I really want to find out what my type is.

Function-attitudinal models have always been a bit of a controversial subject. Some people, for instance, make claims a-la “INTP in MBTI is TiNeSiFe, while LII in socionics is TiNeFiSe, which means they are different types — the latter is a mix of INTP and INTJ!”.

Most people agree with the traditional ABAB, but there are some outstanders, at which I wouldn’t wanna point with my fingers (joke’s on me, I’ll gladly do it).

It needs emphasizing that the author is no advocate of any single function-attitudinal model. Instead, I’ll be speaking in terms of the (supposedly innate) cognitive archetypes introduced by doctor John Beebe and broadly proposed in some socionists’ works. More specifically, I will be using the terms “hero”, “parent”, “child”, “soul”, “nemesis”, “senex”, “trickster” and “demon”, which slightly differ from Beebe’s original naming. There are several reasons for this, the two most important ones being conciseness (in, for example, replacing “opposing personality” with “nemesis” — which, I suppose, Beebe himself might call a bit of a crude simplification, but I myself, not being a person too entitled to labels, accept) and a certain compulsivity (the author firmly believes that the distinction made between the anima and the animus is unnecessary and, perhaps, even harmful to their understanding. The author also tends to view the anima as the complex, the function-attitudinal basis of which is the superid block, thus suggesting to rename the primary archetype of this block to avoid confusion).

The function-attitudinal order is absolutely irrelevant, as long as we’re aware of what psychological type is being talked about, which would mean we’re aware of two archetypes that would define its matrix (hero-soul, but also nemesis-demon) and core (parent-child, but also senex-trickster).

The author will refer to psychological types by the hero-parent pair, commonly known as the ego block.

Jung

According to (as far as I’m concerned, independent) interpretations of Psychological Types made by Isabel Myers and Aushra Augustinavichiute (from now on: “Augusta”), Jung’s main function-attitudinal order was defined as follows:

1.	Hero;

2.	Parent;

3.	Trickster;

4.	Soul.

There are several places in Psychological Types pointing at this, such as:

“the most differentiated function is always employed in an extraverted way, whereas the inferior functions are introverted”.

For example, the SeFi psychological type would be described as SeFiTiNi according to this.

The author must emphasize two things. While it was quite technically Jung himself that introduced the concept of the function-attitudes, he primarily spoke in terms of the functions themselves, differentiating the function-attitudes as mere aspects of them and not individual entities. Jung, thus, quite clearly emphasizes that all eight function-attitudes are present within a human’s psyche, such as here where he talks about the hero’s suppression of the nemesis:

“intuition has its subjective factor, which is suppressed as much as possible in the extraverted attitude”.

MBTI

The most well-known function model used in this area is archetypally defined as follows:

1.	Hero;

2.	Parent;

3.	Child;

4.	Soul.

As described by William Grant and Alan Brownsword.

Socionics

Augusta’s own model is archetypally defined as:

1.	Hero;

2.	Parent;

3.	Demon;

4.	Trickster;

5.	Soul;

6.	Child;

7.	Nemesis;

8.	Senex.

Shortly, Augusta describes the order as ego, superego, superid and id blocks continuously.

While Victor Gulenko’s model, dictated by benefit instead of supervision, is defined as:

1.	Hero;

2.	Senex;

3.	Demon;

4.	Child;

5.	Parent;

6.	Soul;

7.	Trickster;

8.	Nemesis.

In which he distinguishes four blocks of his own: social mission (hero-senex), social adaptation (demon-child), self-realization (parent-soul) and problematic (trickster-nemesis).

An important thing about these examples is that Gulenko himself emphasizes that in practice the two models do not differ:

“Both models, if we do not take implementation-technological aspect, are equivalent and complimentary to each other”.

AABB

First idea we see here is so-called “jumpers”. The concept is based on a crude misunderstanding of the peculiarities of the child, which can become quite an object of obsession for a person, that I see no point in explaining.

A more science-resembling work — well, as science-resembling as something non-scientific (I beg the reader to not equate non-scientific with pseudoscientific. In its essence analytical psychology is as non-scientific as, say, category theory, only that it truly lacks formalization) can get — is presented by one “Akhromant”. I am not here to criticize them for equating the Ni function-attitude with academic intelligence, nor for not understanding what the P vs J dichotomy of MBTI means (for those unaware, it means Pe + Ji (static, also known as reviser) vs Je + Pi (dynamic, also known as conductor), while they think it is perceiving (also known as irrational) vs judging (also known as rational)), nor for typing Carl Gustav Jung as TiSe.

According to them, all “typologists” have been dwelling in ignorance, as, for example, the real function-attitudes of the type they call “ENFP” are Ne-Fe-Ti-Si.

The reader could, perhaps, make an educated guess that they simply got lost in the peculiarities of the senex archetype, thus forming an order of hero-senex-trickster-soul, in which case their “NeFe” would, in fact, be the NeFi psychological type.

However, there are several places in their blog pointing towards all function-attitudes of the order they’re describing being ego-syntonic (while senex and trickster are ego-dystonic), such as with their own understanding of quadras and their translation of “incorrect” typings to their own, “correct” ones (for example, they say INTPs are mistyped “ISTJ”s (Ti-Si-Ne-Fe according to them) or “ENFP”s (Ne-Fe-Ti-Se according to them)), from which one could abduce that the order they are describing is hero-child-parent-soul. Their “ENFP”, thus, is the NeTi psychological type, “INFJ” is the FiSe psychological type, etc.

An important thing to note here is that it is completely irrelevant how one chooses to represent a psychological type, by which name or function-attitudinal order — the actuality of the type’s nature will remain.

The way Akhromant refers to the types reminds me of an encoding way I encountered in CPT (the reader must be infuriated by the sole mention of anti-Jungians like CPT, OPS and alike. I, however, must assure you that I do not condone their perversions, merely presenting an interesting part here). More precisely, they, just like Akhromant, encode the positive (or inert) functions. For example, the SeFi psychological type would be referred to as eST (Se and Te). I do not, however, consider this way of referring to types as particularly useful, instead viewing it as simply amusing.

Conclusion

I must yet again emphasize that the order in which the function-attitudes are described is irrelevant. It’s not about how “strong” they are, it’s about which archetypes they’re manifested through, which, in turn, are independent of the number you choose or choose not to label them with.

Opinions on Delta quadrant, their values and the types in it (xSTJ & xNFP)? Do you like them, do you not like them? Why?

I just graduated college a couple months ago and I am currently working an election support job to make some money while I look for work.

Honestly, the fact that I suffer from severe migraines and brain fog since multiple concussions I received (all within 24 hours) in high school isn’t even the first issue as to why I’m nearly unemployable, because I am able to bite down and push through any pain I experience.

It’s the fact that I am unable to submit to authority 99% of the time. I always do what I think is right, and I will not do otherwise unless convinced. I will always say what I think and I always question authority if it doesn’t make sense to me. Even though I say I unable to submit though, it doesn’t mean that I don’t follow directions etc. I am not someone with oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), who defies authority for the sake of defiance, and so I am able to cooperate and situationally fit just fine into hierarchies.

The issue is when I am expected to submit and do as I’m told regardless of what I think (aka what is logical and/or pragmatic).

Today, I submitted for the first time in a long time because I had no choice other than getting fired.

Since I sucked it up, I have had a brutal stomachache on top of my severe migraine. I felt like I needed to throw up. When I stood up to our tyrannical supervisor, and after I received my first compliment from a coworker on the side, I felt aligned with my purpose. That this is what I was born to do:

Fight, not just for myself but for the people who are too afraid to.

It’s the story of my life in a nutshell to be singled out by authority. I realize that I threaten their authority, because people always rally behind a leader like me.

I’ve decided to stick it out until the end of the election, but my point is that I also realize I’m nearly unemployable at an entry level job. I suppose I fear that even if I am self-employed, I will still be forced to submit to someone somehow in some way.

That time again! Let's discuss the self proclaimed manifestation of Leo sign. Haha.

Who is lucky enough to claim him as his own? Se + ... ?

SLE: Sure, might be, but the more I listen to him, the less I see it. He is constantly talking about emotions, dividing people through emotions and manipulates emotions just a tad too good for an SLE. He is also (old) incoherent as all crap! And his Te seems to be very low(certainly not 4D!) on his own. Without advisors, managers etc, he would've spent all that money who knows when and how.

SEE: But why not SEE then? Few things. Relations seem to be transactional to him, but that could just be a show. He is crude. And he didn't seem to be like this before he got old. Then again, he isn't manipulating any systems(he fails epically at that), but emotions and relations towards things and people. Would an SLE(like, idk, Churchill or Žukov) really do that?

Based on descriptions I've heard of both, it seems like SLEs are generally better than SEEs. From what I can make of it, SLEs are just SEEs but more tactical, logical, and rational. SEEs are SLEs but less tactical, rational, and logical, but I guess they're better at socializing? How the hell is being a good person supposed to benefit you?

Where they see a picture and can tell the mood,atmosphere,message and emotion that the picture convey.

They see it as a reflection of how the person's feel or thinks about something.

They can tell people's personalities by looking at them and their body language since they can see a pattern

I am an intp in mbti and I think a socionics Robespierre. How would you go about typing me?

Selected and compiled by V.L. Talanov based on materials from live communication, Internet sites and Internet forums.

Advice from the author (useful for learning to understand the essence of each type) - when reading jokes, figure out what marker, characteristic features of the sociotype are played out in it.

Enjoy the full English translation ~80 pages by ChatGPT-4o: [Google Doc]

Thanks Talanov & ChatGPT!

A small selection:

ILI

ILI: – I have two pieces of news.

SEE: – Start with the good one.

ILI: – Who told you there’s a good one?

SEE

Conversation between train conductor and the SEE passenger:

– Your ticket is for A, but this train is going to B.

– Do your drivers make such mistakes often?

ESI

A patient comes to the psychiatrist ESI complaining of an inferiority complex.

After a thorough interview, the psychiatrist says:

– I can reassure you, you don’t have such a complex. You are genuinely inferior.

LIE

Inscription on the tombstone:

"Here lies the ashes of LIE, whose inconsolable widow runs an excellent restaurant on 94th Avenue, always at your service from six in the morning."

LSI

– Honey, why don’t you say you love me anymore?

– I said it once. If anything changes, I’ll let you know.

EIE

Death with a scythe comes knocking on a man’s door. He opens, squints at her, and says:

– Where’s the grand stance? Where’s the infernal gleam in your eyes? I deserve a better death!

IEI

IEI and SLE meet. IEI looks downcast, sad.

SLE : – Why so glum?

IEI: – It’s work, always work, from morning till night, just constant work...

SLE (understandingly): – How long have you been working like this?

IEI: – I’m starting tomorrow…

SLE

When SLE cuts onions, the onions cry.

EII

It happens when you set your favorite song as an alarm… And soon, it’s no longer your favorite song.

Insomnia isn’t the problem. The problem is when you don’t know why you’re waking up every morning.

LSE

"A time for work and a time for play," LSE thought at 2 a.m., put down the drill, and picked up the violin…

SLI

Three SLIs are sitting on the riverbank, fishing.

After two hours, one SLI says:– No bites, time to go.

Another hour passes, and the second one says:– It’ll start biting later, let’s wait.

After another hour, the third SLI says:– If you two keep arguing, I’ll just leave.

IEE

When discussing the purchase of a new toy, don't start directly with “Buy it, buy it, buy it!!!” Begin with a more indirect topic, like:– Dad, was your childhood difficult and joyless too?

“I hate my inconsistency, it’s so cool!” exclaimed IEE.

LII

My girlfriend suggested we talk about our future. I went on for half an hour about lasers, teleportation, and force fields… then realized I might not have understood the question.

ESE

When he asked her out, she fell off her chair, jumped on the bed, ran around the apartment in happiness for 15 minutes, and replied, "I’ll think about it."

SEI

Go to work or sleep? Sleep or go to work? I found a compromise: I’ll go to work and sleep there!

ILE

– Why is there an "x" in the word "pencil"?

– But there is no "x" in "pencil."

– Exactly, and that’s what I’m wondering—if there were one, why would it be there?

Recently, I had an episode where I got really cold and dismissive with my friends because I felt like they were ignoring me and not taking me seriously. I try to touch their backs to call for their attention, but they didn't notice, then I sat there and started reminding myself of other times I had gotten ignored this month by others. I got angrier when the SEE texted me to cancel the group's meet up for a project because many members were busy, I was like 'What!?' I was busy too and that he only cared about himself and others(turned out to be just a misunderstanding). It's just a general feeling directed at the external world and myself for I do acknowledge that I'm unable to call for people's attention loudly since I speak softly. But my SEE friend took it as I dislike him now. He was sad, worried that I won't be able to focus on being productive with all these negative emotions and was scared of actually talking to me. He even made a script to apologise to me but didn't dare to approach me.

After two days of gathering my thoughts at home, and explaining it to some friends whom I'm most close with in the group, I got normal again, laughing and joking around. But I notice the SEE friend being uncharacteristically silent and kept to himself for the whole morning, his eyes were red too. Until it was time for the group acting work where we were forced to interact. Seeing me being like my normal self joking around and all, he let loose a bit and were like 40% of his usual loudness.

When he got home, he texted my close friend(an ESI) whom I explained to why I was angry, to ask for the reasons. The ESI was on my side because she did witness me calling for him and he didn't notice, we even joked about it. She relayed exactly what I told her about how I were just in a general bad mood and the anger wasn't solely directed at him, that there were many other external factors that made me felt ignored too. He insisted on it being his fault that he let me down. He then got mad. I did say things like I felt disrespected and my opinions not worth considered, that much disappointed the SEE, since he believed himself to always care about what his close friends had to say. He filmed himself deleting the online game our group would play together just because I started being sad and cold after a match(I was in a bad mood, there were too many laughters around me so I was annoyed, not because of the game itself).

My ESI friend has access to all our social media accounts on her phone. Later, she capped pics of him talking to an older figure about me. He didn't update the new version of the story to her after he knew it. He asked if he were a bad person. And he asked if he should be humble, take the blame and apologise anyway despite feeling like he didn't do anything wrong. She told him not to and that he should hold himself to a high standards, if I didn't initiate first then he guess it was never meant to be. The conversation had a joking tone that my ESI friend greatly disliked. The ESI told me not to talk to the SEE friend first, she felt like I was going to be forced to participate in their games just for their satisfaction, that he did wrong first and to demand an apology from me instead is stupid. She also thought to break off friendships over such a simple matter is ridiculous. Honestly, he seemed really sad, she capped another text of the SEE texting a guy friend(that had a reputation for being weird and got blocked by the SEE himself on many occasions), asking for a hug.

Personally, I'm fine with no apologies from anyone. My anger is fast come fast leave, I would just move on like usual, there's no need to overcomplicate the matters, or a need for formal apologies. I know that one of the reasons I got mad was because of my own weakness, and I had unfortunately affected others with my frustration, at the smallest things they do that remind me of that weakness. I think the SEE is refusing to listen to reasons by not telling the older figure the full story and is too deep in his self hatred, the older figure saying 'this was his unlucky year' in the conversation just adds to it.

I still had the POV that things would soon return to normal, since it had always been like that for me whenever I get angry. Idk about him though but he does seem like the type to not be able to just cut someone off and ignore them for long. He's very social and emotionally invested in his friends, which is an endearing attribute.

Is the one to first initiate going to be on the losing side? I'm afraid that he would have that mentality, encouraged by the older figure, and not initiate a conversation with me. As for me, I'm terrified to initiate anything, not that to be on the losing side is bad, but initiating is scary. I guess I need something to reassure me since I never had his anger directed at me before.