Undead seemingly cannot cross The Wall. Unless it falls, the magic will prevent Jon from being able to go to the other side. What if Jon is resurrected on the northern side of The Wall?

Obviously his body is on the southern side right now, but the heart of winter is definitely on the other side? How can he fulfil the Azor Ahai prophecy without travelling to the very far north?

In my opinion, either the wall falls or Jon’s story with the others ends at Winterfell.

Just something I noticed that nobody talks about!

Did she deserve what Daenerys did to her? Or was she more in the right than Dany was?

She's not talked about that much for a character I feel is very significant to Dany's story. Reading Mirri talking about all the dothraki did before Daenerys "saved" her, it's hard not to agree with her. Or at least see her point.

But Daenerys still burned her alive. I guess she had to, considering.

And re-reading the chapter, I saw this great quote I had completely forgotten about:

A word, and Dany could have her head off … yet then what would she have? A head? If life was worthless, what was death?

George drops these gems just effortlessly.

Dragons are huge carnivorous animals that likely needed tonnes and tonnes of meat to even function. Is it ever explained how did Targaryens manage to keep several of them in their menagerie and still meet their caloric needs? Balerion the Black Dread on its own would need to eat a dozens of barns worth of cattle in order not to starve to death. Also, their dropping would be house-sized.

Any ideas on who could’ve been the hands of The king for Viserys II, Aegon V and The blackfires?

POV or otherwise just interested in a what people think

My views are stannis because he messes with Jon snows future and I can’t imagine them fighting together. And also littlefinger, his control of Sansa doesn’t bode well for his narrative Sansa I believe is gonna do something and I can’t imagine littlefinger will survive it (tho it would be kinda crazy to see another stark die besides rickon but if I had to bet I’d say Arya will die)

It seems like there’s many pressure points in the history of Westerosi nobility where the fact that a marriage didn’t produce any (or produce any trueborn) heirs becomes a larger problem. For instance, Rhaenyra/Laenor, etc. This problem seems to be magnified for the Targaryens, both because 1) they were, for most of Westerosi modern history, the ruling dynasty and 2) they have a particular phenotype (silver hair, violet eyes) that affords Targaryen/ruling legitimacy.

So, since especially for the Targs, there was suuuuch paramount need to produce heirs that were trueborn — and therefore by extension, looked Targaryen — then why didn’t they (Targs, their maesters, etc) develop alternate methods for insemination/conception?

Like, the traditional way to make babies isn’t the only way it has to happen. Sure they don’t have IVF or preimplantation genetic screening, but surely they can come up with some device or tool that is able to take the amber of life and get it to where it needs to go so the job can get done?

Obviously the goal/intended usage for this would/should be between two consenting parties (like in the case of two Targs/nobles being set up in a marriage and producing heirs would be the best political and life comfort and security thing to do, but they just can’t make it happen the traditional way for whatever reason).

I know this is a weird idea but since producing trueborn heirs is so important you’d think that desperate nobles/Targs would think more out of the box about how to get that done. The maesters seem to have some working knowledge of women’s health (moon tea etc), so why haven’t they done more work into this idea? or obgyn training for maesters a lot more? the maesters and their lords have a vested interest in their wives, daughters, sisters producing healthy/living heirs and children and also living through childbirth, so why aren’t the maesters also better at obgyn related knowledge as well?

Edit: I recognize this is a fantasy world grrm wrote. Alternatively why don’t we all entertain the idea that this was something they could do in Westeros.

We all know how ashamed Tywin was of Tyrion, and the latter's drunken, whoring antics didn't make things any better. But here's my question, why didn't Tywin just keep Tyrion hidden away from the general public eye? I remember watching the Hunchback of Notre Dame movie, and Frollo kept Quasimodo locked away in the bell tower so that no one would know of his existence. That got me wondering why Tywin couldn't have done something similar and just kept Tyrion hidden away in an isolated room at Casterly Rock.

What do you guys think?

In this alternate timeline, after taking the Iron Throne, King Robert does not marry Cersei or anyone else. He stays single, brings his bastards to live with him at court, and lives the bachelor life.

I'll divide this into two sub-scenarios:

1. He legitimizes Edric Storm as his heir, naming him Edric Baratheon. The boy is then fostered with either Eddard Stark or Jon Arryn.
2. He does not legitimize any of his bastards, instead naming Stannis as his heir.

How does this effect the course of events in Westeros? Does a civil war still break out or is it averted?

Mine is:

What happened to Aerea Targaryen?

In AGoT, when Joffrey declares a bunch of his opponents traitors to realm, the list includes ”Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne, and all of his sons” Why does Joffrey just declare someone who has done nothing to oppose him and stayed completely neutral up to that point a traitor to the realm? He’s literally asking for Doran to declare for Stannis or Renly.

I think Cersei's fate will echo that of Alicent Hightower; she will be removed from power and shipped of to Casterly rock where she will live in mourning having lost her father, brothers, and all three children haunted by regrets and ghosts.

I know of course there is the valonquar prophecy which speaks of the little brother squeesing the life from her throat. But remember that in asoiaf losing your life doesnt always equal death. MMD said to dany, "Look to your khal and see what life is worth, when all the rest is gone." Drogo had lost his son, ability to ride and interact with the world, he was alive but not living.

MMD had lost her freedom, autonomy and village...she was alive but not living.

Cersei doesnt necersarily have to die for her to lose her life to the valonquar. I think she will live a broken woman alone in the rock probably living her life as her aunt Dorna does

GRRM doesn’t focus on this aspect too much but I’ve always wanted to know. My best guess is;

1.King at the top

2. Lord Paramounts, High Septon & Prince or Princess of Dragonstone

3. Royal family (Queen consort,Princes and princesses)

Honorable members being small council members they should be below the big 3 but above everyone else they seem to have the power to force marriages on princes and princesses and the children of lord paramounts when the king and lords are away or dead so I guess they’re on the same level as the royal family Another honorable mention are Kingsgaurd probably lower than small council but higher than lords

4.Lords

5.landed knights

6.Petty lords the second & third sons of lords (should really have they’re own name)

7.Merchants

8.Commoners

A

We don't hear anything about them being present at the tourney. There were Starks, Martells, Baratheon, Lannister. Jon Arryn was also there, if I remember correctly.

The tourney is held in the Tully's territory by one of their vassals. Why would they not be there?

"To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps. Or not. Baelor's building galleys, Gunthor has charge of the harbor, Garth is training new recruits, and Humfrey's gone to Lys to hire sellsails. If he can winkle a proper fleet out of his whore of a sister, we can start paying back the ironmen with some of their own coin. Till then, the best we can do is guard the sound and wait for the bitch queen in King's Landing to let Lord Paxter off his leash." -AFFC, Samwell V

I think we will meet her in the books and if she comes with a fleet, that would be quite exquisite.

Realistically it's determined largely by who's the better combatant instead of who's innocent/guilty or what the gods decide?

I’m far from the first to bring this up but Bittersteel is the last recorded person to own the Blackfyre sword, and he founded the golden company which is now supporting fAegon VI. The hole in this would be why didn’t Maelys Blackfyre have it in his rebellion if it was still in the GC’s possession. But it does fit Vary’s whole theme about how power is a sort of illusion, and fAegon being revealed to Westeros wielding Blackfyre would give him legitimacy.

A

I've been thinking about this the last few days, but... what purpose does Orys being (allegedly) Aerion's bastard son serve to the story?

Orys Baratheon could've been Aegon's (unrelated) friend, like Sam is to Jon, or Davos is to Stannis, and things would've been the same Heck, Baratheon could've been the name of the ancient Storm Kings, and nothing much would change.

You could have Orys being a former Storm King who bent the knee to Aegon (like Ronnel Arry, Loren Lannister, and Torrhen Stark did), and nothing at all would need to happen differently.

One theory I have is that Orys (supposedly) being Aegon's half-brother was meant to be Robert's only 'legal' claim to the Iron Throne, but then GRRM retconned Rhaelle marrying into House Baratheon, which made the former case redundant.

Why do you think GRRM made House Baratheon's founder the (rumored) half-bastard of Aegon Targaryen?

So I just got the full asoiaf book set for Christmas after watching the series 3 times. I was going to start reading but thought I should ask if there’s anything else I should do before reading, because I remember hearing that it can be a little confusing with the location changes and stuff, so I have the asoiaf map on my iPad while I’ll read. is there anything else I should do/note

Or that just make them imperfect people in an imperfect society?

Neither Jon or Ned is a cruel person. They were both fully prepared to go through with the threat should the other side didn't hold up their end of the deal.

It probably would've hurt Jon even worse since he actually had relationships with some of the wildlings.

During the early modern period in real life, after the Middle Ages drew to a close, Europe began to see powerful members of the merchant class emerge. Examples from real life include the Fuggars of Augsburg, the Medicis of Florence, and the Rothschilds of Frankfurt.

Which cities in Westeros specifically would provide the best oppertunity for a member of the smallfolk to become grotesquely wealthy through banking and trade? Would it be one of the cities, or are one of the small towns better situated for this?

GRRM apparently offhandedly mentioned that the fate of the surviving dragons would be discussed in Fire and Blood 2. In the meanwhile, I'll present my own theories on how they all died out.

Silverwing- I think she was claimed by a Daeron pretender. How exactly she went down remains vague, but Marwyn the Mage mentions gallant dragonslayers officially killing the last dragons- maybe a Dragonpit reference, but I'll also argue that Silverwing may have been killed in warfare. Maybe she got her wings slashed when knights attacked her on the ground, and a lucky archer nailed her eye?

Poisoned is also a good candidate. I can see her prey being poisoned by Reach lords who were tired of her raids for food, and her dying from that. Honestly this is probably the most likely answer.

Sheepstealer- Slain by the Vale's forces at some point. I think Nettles somehow (sickness? Infection?) ended up dead prior to 153, and Sheepstealer's raids provoked a response that ended with his death. A scorpion bolt to the eye? Arrows in the eye? Knights successfully crippling his wings, and he starved?

Poison again is also a valid option for his demise. Just slaughter sheep, poison them, and let him gobble them up.

Morning- As of Fire and Blood, she's living on Dragonstone. I think she's gonna run into the starving Cannibal.

Cannibal- I'm of the opinion that the deformed egg Laena (daughter of Alyn) had in her cradle was poisoned. It's explained that this mutant was completely unprecedented, and that makes me very suspicious. Cannibal maybe ate poisoned eggs?

I can also see Morning blinding him, and he starves from being unable to feed.

The lack of young dragons and eggs also makes me think he could have simply starved to death.

I think the Tyrells got really lucky there. They couldn't have known that Joffrey would ask Tyrion to pour his wine.

If Tyrion wasn't there, or left early, who takes blame?

I just went over some descriptions of the others in the books and I noticed that I haven't seen a single depiction that capture what i am imagining. A tall order to be fair but this comunity is obsessive in a good way and I just thought that someone would have done so.

some descriptors:

• long and gaunt
• flesh pale as milk
• cold blue eyes
• shiny bones like milkglass
• made of ice
• reflective, camouflaging
• pale blue blood
• shadow like? (more of a title?)

now most of those descriptors don't mention anything about a blue tint to there skin only the blue blood suggests that they could have a slight blue tint to there skin. Most the artwork has them look very blue and the reflective armor also isn't captured properly in any of the art that I have seen. there armor is mirror like being described as:

• "the reflective, camouflaging armor" is able to pick up "the images of the things around it like a clear, still pond."
• -GRRM

I imagine them like the shadow baby of melisandre just white with a possible light blue tint to there skin and with reflective armor while they shift around like shadows and even the work of Tommy Patterson don't capture that effectiveness or the shadow like form. Is there more accurate fan art out there? I would love to see a different less tenable depiction of them with all of those descriptors.

I’ve been driving a lot lately so decided to listen to the books- in aCoK, while Catylen is visiting with her sick father, she remarks that it is said the Silent Sisters can only speak with the dead.

I love to think of this being a setup for a conversation between LS and someone vowed to silence. Any thoughts?

Not counting Kings Landing. Could there be a "royal" or preferred poisoner that was not a Maester?

I personally think it would be really interesting to see what would’ve happened if daemon was the heir. Particularly cause so much of his identity was based on being the second son and also seeing how viserys would be different would be interesting too

Question, Is A Dream Of Spring's future bleak?

I see a lot of reddit comments on how they do not think We will get The Winds of Winter but not a Dream Spring and some will say, "No We Will not get The Winds Of Winter", or "George hasn't written a Thing".

I will say, from the looks of it, it is not looking too good, with the Winds of Winter still not looking like it's done. (Thought If reports are true or not, we at least know that GRRM is sending pages to his publisher). I do think we will get Winds Of Winter whether it be a year or two, or 10, I think we will get Winds.

A Dream Of Spring, though bleak at the chances of being done or ever being written, I think it could still be done, How, I do not know.

What I do know is that I don't think GRRM is string fans along. It made be hopium, but I refuse to believe that he hasn't written a word for Winds, there is just too much information for it not being the case. I think Winds is just turning out to be a bigger headache then than the Meereenese Knot will ever be.

So, Is A Dream Of Spring's future bleak?

So, In GOT Tyrion tells us Meraxes was bigger then Vhagar, "Balerion, Meraxes, Vhaghar. Tyrion had stood between their gaping jaws, wordless and awed. You could have ridden a horse down Vhaghar's gullet, although you would not have ridden it out again. Meraxes was even bigger. And the greatest of them, Balerion, the Black Dread, could have swallowed an aurochs whole, or even one of the hairy mammoths said to roam the cold wastes beyond the Port of Ibben."

If we take that as being cannon it means Vhagar was a real runt of a dragon. She was born in 52 bc to have been 181 at her death in 130 ac and yet she was still smaller then Meraxes who died 9 ac. Meraxes is probably older, we know that she's definitely not one of the OG targaryen dragons, "The dragons Vhagar and Meraxes were younger, hatched on Dragonstone itself."

The Targaryens landed 115 bc and so Meraxes could be anywhere from 115 years to 52 years old at the time of the conquest. So age probably made her bigger then Vhagar.

But then that raises the question Visenya would probably have been given her pick of the dragons before the younger Rhaenys, when then she did not pick the larger Meraxes over the younger, runtier vhagar.

And then there is this line about Vhagar, " Though slower than she had been a century before, she had grown nigh as large as the Black Dread of old."

This line probably means that Vhagar had reached the size Balerion was at the conquest. But Meraxes skull was still larger then Vhagar's, so either Meraxes grew a lot in the 9 years she lived post conquest or Meraxes was larger then Balerion at that point.