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Honestly, I wouldn’t even be mad. Gotta respect a man who can play the long game.

Many people, especially after the horrendous show's ending, seem to relate Dany connection to Fire with destruction and blood. Inspired by a recent post by u/DagonG2021 let me further elaborate on the significance of Fire in the narrative of the Long Night.

The threat of Death comes from magical beings seemingly made of ice. The threat of Death comes from cold (winter is coming) and night (the night is long and full of horrors).

Jon symbolizes Ice; it is no coincidence he dies.

Dany, Fire, CREATED life from Fire—her dragons.

"Three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . ."

Light for life = dragons

Light for Death = the Others

Light for love = Jon

I believe Dany is Azor Ahai, the one to wield the Lightbringer to end the Long Night. Who else is destined to LIGHT fires? Also, the prophecies Dany heard in the House of the Undying were all connected to the number three: mounts, treasons, fires, and, of course, the three heads of the dragon. In the legend, Azor Ahai is only able to forge Lightbringer after three attempts:

On the first attempt, he tempers it in water, and it breaks.

On the second attempt, he tempers it in a lion's heart, and it fails.

On the third attempt, he tempers it in Nissa Nissa's heart.

When Dany is in the House of the Undying, she sees:

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. (Water—referring possibly to the Dothraki)

A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. (Lion— a beast Azor slays trying to steal his strength. That I think is an interesting twist, Dany also gets strength from "beasts", her dragons. But she does not slay them, on the contrary, she gave birth to them)

And then she sees:

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!” They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them.

So I think this is the twist of the Prince was Promised. Azor has to temper his sword with Nissa's heart for her warmth, according to the wiki, Lightbringer "can boil the blood of a monster when Azor Ahai thrusts the sword through the belly of the beast. After steam poured from the beast's mouth and its eyes melted, its body burst into flame". But this time, there is no Nissa Nissa, because Dany IS fire, life, and love.
The reason why the Long Night returned is because Azor merely borrowed his weapon from Death. Just like Azor tried to steal Fire by slaying a beast, he stole Fire by slaying his love.

But Dany won't steal Fire by destroying love, she will light them, forging the true Lightbringer.

I believe this balance will finally be accomplished through love, Dany's destiny, and her unison with Jon, who is Ice and Death.

Further proof of this union is the visions Dany has about the Red Door and the Lemon Tree: The Lightbringer is known as the Red Sword of Heroes. Dany constantly fantasizes about this door, which symbolizes home, which is truly what she wants more than anything in the world. More than throne and conquest. Symbolically, we can also think of a door as a passage, the liminar between two worlds.

But this door is accompanied by a Lemon Tree. The fandom already caught is almost impossible that the region Dany was born to have lemon trees, so what does it mean? Well, George purposefully gives a background character a line only to inform us that you can find plenty of lemon trees in Dorne. In the Red Mountains of Dorne is the Tower of Joy, where Jon was born, the fruit of the unison of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar).

Dany is having dragon dreams about her union with Jon which ultimately is the end of her quest (all her prophecies end with "love") and also Jon's. This place with the Red Door and the Lemon Tree symbolizes both Dany's and Jon's greatest pursuits: home.

That's why I also believe Dany's destiny is not to destroy the Others. Life needs Death, Fire needs Ice. The world is a balance between those two forces. The conflict between humans and Others will end in a truce—a balance of Life and Death, Fire and Ice.

House Frey seems to be one of the least popular houses in the series. People who’s support different houses/ characters seem United in the beleif that they are scum and all deserve to die, for the name of Frey to be blotted out forever.

I don’t much like any of them, but I think the anger and umbrage against them is unwarranted. What Walder did basically was back the winning horse and disentangle himself from an allaince that for sure would have brought ruin to his lands and family.

If one ever starts a war or tries to play the game of thrones irl, they have to remember a very important rule. Never lose/ never get conquered because the consequences are so terrible if you don’t win.

Robb started a massive war and signed the death warrants of thousands of soldiers and peasants. Marrying a Weasley faced Frey girl is a small but needed prince, and something I felt he had to do.

Apparently he had his pick of Frey daughter/ granddaughters. At least one or two were fairly pretty and all would have been thrilled to be hai wife.

But he didn’t, and so the red wedding happened. Do all the Freys deserve death for it? People have done far worse and been treated as heroes. Also be careful what you wish for if you say AJ entire family should die. Most of the Freys had nothing to do with it and might not be so bad. Sadly they will be caught in lady stone hearts death vortex.

I can see George doing that doing a “ careful what you wish for” to the audience.

What do you think of house Frey? Thoughts? What should become of them?

Everyone on the Shy Maid is lying about their identities, right? It's basically a requirement to get on the boat. We have insight into "Yollo/Hugor Hill" and both "Griffs". Tons o' speculation about Lemore. But what's Duck hiding?

I think he's a secret Redwyne bastard.

Let’s start with what we know for sure.

• Redhead
• Good with a sword (or the Mummers wouldn’t have him as Aegon’s tutor)
• Probably from the Reach and castle-raised (because Tyrion can hear region and social strata in how a person talks)

The best lies are seasoned with a bit of truth. The dwarf knew he sounded like a westerman, and a highborn westerman at that, so Hugor must needs be some lordling's by-blow.

Duck says he grew up in a Reacher lord’s castle. Training in the yard, working harder than the lord’s pampered failson heir, but still treated as inferior because of his birth. Perhaps that’s a lie seasoned with a bit of truth?

The story has a lot of resemblance to Jon’s. Training alongside Robb like a brother, but never getting to bear the name Stark, or feel truly at home in Winterfell. Until he eventually had to leave home to make his own name. 

Also like Jon, Duck’s got a bastard sword. It's one of the first things we learn about him, before even his name. The only other bastard swords are bastard’s swords, Longclaw and Blackfyre.

If his story’s like a bastard’s, and his sword’s like a bastard’s, maybe that duck is just a bastard.

But whose bastard? Good storytelling suggests it should be a character we’re already familiar with. Otherwise, why would we care? 

It’s ASOIAF, so the most important genetic clue is always gonna be hair color. GRRM’s got a soft spot for redheads, so it’s basically never not significant when he gives a character red hair. The only redheaded Reachman families (in the main series) are Merryweather and Redwyne.Of the two, the audience has way more reason to care about Redwyne. They’ve got Arbor Gold, wealth, ships, twins with memorable nicknames, and friggin Olenna. We’ve heard about their political loyalties since 1996. 

The Merryweathers don’t even show up ‘til the third book! The only memorable thing about House Merryweather is that a more interesting character married into it.

There’s also a lotta good evidence of a Redwyne-Mummer connection

• Olenna’s dad/Paxter’s grandpa Runceford gave Illyrio a cask from his own private stock.
• In that same chapter, we learn Illyrio has Redwyne color hand-me-downs lying around
• Horras & Hobber tried to flee to Pentos disguised as oarsmen
  • This is 100% Varys’s M.O. Hiding the nobles among cargo and the overlooked serving classes, to get them from King’s Landing to Pentos.
• Olenna had a Targaryen betrothal. The Redwynes are one of the only non-paramount houses who play the game at the level of the dragons.

With the Pisswater Prince story, Team Mummer is outright publicly claiming, “we engage in the trade of unwanted sons with wine-sotted dads.” That’s their stated business model. The centerpiece of their whole charade doubles as product placement for Arbor Gold: The wine so good, you’d sell your son to Spiders.

What if the Griffin’s lie is seasoned with a bit of the Duck’s truth?

What if Duck had to leave because he threatened the inheritance of the trueborn Redwynes? To secure their wealth – the Arbor’s gold – they traded an unwanted son to the mummers. It’s just poetic, in the exact way GRRM loves, for the glamorous VIP to have stolen and remixed some elements of his “hardscrabble backstory” from the real life of his lowly bodyguard. (Who then has to invent a new backstory for himself. Lest his life’s tale steal spotlight from the star of the show.)

So to recap:

• Duck’s a castle-trained, redheaded Reachman
• He has a bastard sword, in a story where those are always bastard’s swords
• The likeliest option for a redheaded noble Reachman house that might’ve sent an unwanted bastard to the Mummers is House Redwyne
• Duck being an unwanted son, traded away to secure the Arbor’s gold, would be painfully and poetically similar to fAegon’s alleged backstory with the Pisswater Prince

Which brings us to the best/worst part. Because, if Duck’s a Redwyne, it means GRRM buried a dirty visual pun that is truly cursed.

What do ducks and wine have in common?

!Corkscrews.!<

You're welcome. Happy holidays!

(Art Credit: Irvin Pajarillo)

So i picked up a game of thrones and am a little hesitant to start it. I struggle with attention and stuff so any tips so that i can retain everything, enjoy it, and not get completely overwhelmed and lost? Thanks guys

Even if it's a self-insert, what house would they be from? What side would they be on?

I was thinking of books with identical twins (pretty little liars) and i had a thought, "Imagine how funny it would have been if Ned had brought back two identical Jon Snows to Winterfell. What would Cat do?"

I figure identical twins are not so common amongst the main characters, but it is fun to think of. What do you think Cat would do if there were two bastards threatining her son's claim?

Another silly thought is imagining Ned trying to pull "A Parent Trap" to protect Jon and his non-existant twin. He seperates them at birth and sends one to idk the Citadel and keeps the other with him.

Also I would create a character that is an old man but not a perv to Sansa/Dany (excepting Selmy) and just genuinely nice to them.

Feel free to be chaotic and non-sensical in the comments.

I'd also like to imagine Ned Stark being resurrected as Lord Stoneheart and both him and Cat seeking vengeance from all of Westeros. Since resurrection is so altering, I would imagine if Lord Stonheart as less honor-bound, especially after the Red Wedding. Or if anything, his honour would be even more slighted by all that has happened, fuelling his desire for vengeance even more.

To get to the Others’ side.

Reply to this post with a random line from any of the main books and redditors will try to guess the speaker and addresser or POV. Should be fun.

i think his favourites are pretty clearly Starks, Targaryens, Blackwoods and Daynes

But which one do you is his least favorite aside from the obvious i.e. Brackens

So often here I read about Arya giving the gift of death to Lady Stoneheart. It would of course be a fitting plotpoint for Arya is she has learned that death is sometimes better than live and for LSH because the vengefull spirit that wants revenge for the life of her children gets killed by one of them.

A small thing with this is that killing LSH would also fit perfectly for Brienne's arc, as she learns in a mirror of Jamie and the Mad King that breaking an oath is sometimes more honourfull than keeping it and kills the Lady she has sworn an oath to. Especially as her sword is called Oathkeeper.

Of course, two characters can't both kill LSH, but what if we Arya had another family member to give the gift of death to. A resurrected Jon could fit here. Maybe even stronger because the connection between Arya and Jon is way stronger than between Arya and Catelyn. Catelyn thinks mostly about Bran en Rob when she thinks of her children. Arya on the other hand is not even sure her mother would want her back, which I found a hilarious bit in my current ASOS reread.

Of course, Arya doesnt have a reason atm to kill Jon. We also don't know how he will be when he comes back. Probably not as vengefull as LSH at least. I also agree that this is a major weakness of this theory. But I also wouldn't even call it a theory, more a thought as it has no real prove. Would guess the probability of it happening is <20%, but felt like sharing it to see what other people thought.

The Dornish people are partly Andals and mostly follow the Faith of the Seven. They do have different cultural and ethnic background, but I always wondered if, back when they were independent, did their castles have maesters trained in Oldtown (their lifelong enemy) employed among their staff, or did they have their own maesters trained in their own country?

What do you think? I'd love to know your opinion since this is for my fanfic project.

Thank you.

There seem to be conflicting views on this... Does she directly head to North? Does she go South towards king's landing? Or Riverlands (lady stone heart)? Or does she remain in the Vale?

Would you hate it if there's a dark twist to King Bran?

As I see it, George doesn't seem to believe in "enlightened despots" and has repeatedly shown the problems with this concept. Therefore, the series ending with a "God King" type of character that can spy on everyone is weird.

Would you hate it if he's actually evil or at least morally ambiguous? Or if his body is taken over by the Children of the Forest and there's no Bean left?

Because to me, the only way Bran's rise to power would make sense is if he's some sort of darkish figure. Maybe not evil, but at least morally ambiguous. There's really no reason why anyone would accept King Bran unless he uses underhanded methods.

I personally wouldn't mind it. It could end with Bran being God Emperor and Jon being exiled in the North and quietly planning to overthrow Bran. Btw did you know that in the original outline and the redacted text from the outline, Bran and Jon were said to be "bitter enemies"?

If Stannis had five sons Help with writing fics and advice needed Did Stannis Baratheon have seven sons with Selyse Baratheon? Do you think this idea is worth exploring or does it stray too far from canon?

Steffon Baratheon: the eldest son, born in 286 AC. He is good-natured, with a touch of sarcasm and dry wit, but overall he is the most similar to Stannis in personality.

Lyonel Baratheon: the second son, born in 287 AC. He is almost the opposite of Steffon, similar to Renly in charm and charisma. He inherited some traits from Florent.

Shireen Baratheon: born in 288 AC. She is basically the same Shireen from canon.

Dickon and Jeyne Baratheon: twins born in 289 AC. Dickon is moderate and practical, with dreams of becoming a knight. Jeyne has a personality similar to Arya Stark: adventurous, headstrong, and independent.

All of the children have the classic Baratheon traits: wavy black hair and blue eyes. Lyonel, however, inherited Florent's traits.

I plan to explore the Baratheons destroying House Tyrell and establishing strategic marriages, like Jeyne's with SweetRobin, but I'm undecided about the fate of some of the siblings. The narrative will also keep Stannis as the same unlucky and stubborn man from the canon.

What do you think of this idea? Any suggestions for making it more interesting?

The Honorable Lord Eddard Stark known throughout the seven kingdoms for his unwavering sense of honor. Ned is most often characterised as being too honest, noble and straightforward, unsuited for the kind of lying and scheming behaviour required to truly play the Game of Thrones.

This doesn’t change the fact however, that Ned Stark told the biggest and most important lie in the entire history of the seven kingdoms, and successfully kept up the lie with everyone, including his closest friends and family, right up to his dying breath. The lie of course being the true identity of Jon Snow.

Ned led the entire realm to think that Jon was his bastard son, he let Robert think that Lyanna was murdered by Rhaegar, he let his wife think that he had cheated on her, he let his children think they had a brother, he let Jon live his life completely in the dark about his true identity. He never once, in all those years, shared the truth with another soul.

He told this lie so incredibly successfully that in a world in which almost every prominent character is actively looking for weaknesses in the others and trying to weasel out their darkest secrets, no one even suspects the truth. Ned carefully paints and maintains a picture of himself as being a man whom is unambitious and almost pathologically incapable of lying, therefore creating the maximum cover for the one lie that mattered more than any other.

Ned Stark isn’t someone for whom lying comes easily, but if he has to do it, he’ll damn sure do it right.

A monstrous madman, dabbling in dark sorcery, casually committing the most horrible acts of cruelty, cutting off the tongues of his crew, ř*ping and killing his siblings, and likely intending, through some unholy ritual, to turn himself into a god and remake the world in his image. A man who did impossible things such as sailing to the ruins and Valyria and coming back, and a pirate feared across every sea. And the scene in the Forsaken chapter where all the notable Westerosi Gods are impaled is like textbook style imagery of world ending in the hands of the villain.

(This is just a theory and most likely is going to be untrue.) The White Walkers want one thing above all else:and that is to destroy the Children of the Forest. They kill men because that's what they were made to do. They're “programmed" to kill humans, like terminators do because that was their intended purpose as per what we were shown in the show.

The Children made them. If the show was right, and I believe it was to at least some degree, then the white walkers were originally humans, transformed into white walkers to use as a weapon against the First Men. When they evened the score against the First Men, and were even winning, the Children pretended to ally with the First Men to fight them off, killing the majority and forcing the rest to retreat far north.

Why did the Children do this? They didn't want their land covered in eternal winter, nor did they believe that killing all men would work; they came through from Essos in their hundreds of thousands, at least, and bred even more.

Best to force them into peace by pretending to be their ally, forge a friendship with them, an alliance and an agreement. This was The Pact, signed on the Isle of Faces.

So, from the White Walkers' perspective, they were captured by the Children, transformed into White Walkers - an entirely different form of life, never able to see their families again. Then made to kill other humans, possibly even their own friends and family, and then later, being betrayed by the Children, who have armed the First Men with dragonglass weapons and taught them how to kill White Walkers. They were chased into the far north, where they have remained for 8,000 years.

Understandably, the White Walkers are pissed at their former masters. Now they want to kill them.

So why look to come south of the wall? The Isle of Faces, in the Gods Eye lake just south of Harrenhal in the Riverlands.

The Isle of Faces is reportedly home to more Children of the Forest, besides those in the far North that we see with Bran. Howland Reed is meant to have gone there after the Tourney at Harrenhal, and has possibly met the Green Men and Children of the Forest who dwell there.

I think they’re going there to destroy the Children. Are they after Bran as well? Absolutely. As the new Three-Eyed Raven, he’s a powerful tool of the Children of the Forest, who can be used against them as well as he can against men.

I don’t know what their plans would be after destroying the Children of the Forest. I have a feeling they’d go back into the far north, far beyond the Wall, or maybe they’d die. Maybe they’d welcome that.

I'm not really a fan of books. Well to be fair I haven't really given books a fair try. I'm more of a visual type of person. The score, the acting, the sex, the direction are what appeal to me the most.

I loved the Game of thrones show until the writers fucked up bad. But I'm expecting a LOT from the books.

What RR Martin's vision originally was, The way he wanted to tell HIS story and what he's done with HIS characters are what i'm most curious about.The names sound so fancy and so well done. "The Dance of Dragons." is the most fascinating to me.

Unfortunately I've been delaying it QUITE a bit because again I'm not into books. I've also heard the books are not for everyone. Are they a slowburn? I really don't like slowburn. How good is the writing? And are the last two books worth reading because I've heard they deviate from the original topics quite a bit and there isn't really going to be a conclusion to them ever atleast not by RR Martin himself.

I love the show (well seasons 1-6) and I know quite a lot about the lore from the books. I’m really interested in reading the books but I’ve got a major issue with that.

It seems to be widely accepted now that GRRM will never finish the series, whether he releases TWoW or not, it seems almost impossible he’ll be able to release ADoS. If this is the case then the series will never be complete. Or at least by the original author.

I’m the kind of person who if I never got an ending to this it would likely frustrate me for the rest of my life (neurodivergence lol).

So basically I want to know people’s thoughts on whether or not I should read the books? Like is it actually worth it to start now knowing the series is extremely unlikely to ever get an ending?

We know all about Winterfell, Casterly Rock, Highgarden, Storm's End, etc... what about castles in Essos? There must be some glorious ones? Yet when I think of wealth/luxury in Essos I think of the Great Pyramid in Meereen or the Iron Bank in Braavos. Are there any known Essos castles?

Sansa in the show betrayed the secret of Jon's parentage. This is a hot take but I actually think this is very important and will likely happen in the books.

We know that Sansa in the books betrayed Ned's secret to become queen. I feel like betraying Jon's secret and becoming queen (but likely alienated from her siblings) would be an interesting conclusion for her character. Like a tragic irony.

I honestly think Sansa will be QITN. People always say: "Sansa doesn't have the skills to be queen" but like, does it matter? George does not believe in "enlightened despots". Any king/queen in asoiaf will be inevitably flawed.

The storyline in the show simply makes so much sense and I don't think D&D would come up with it on their own. They were just too cowardly to show that Sansa would be alienated from her siblings, just like they were too cowardly in how they treated Tyrion.

So do you think Sansa will betray Jon's secret in the books?

I've heard the complaint time and time again that George doesn't really understand how medieval battles work. How could he fix this? What should he have done to make them more realistic?

He says he wants to marry sansa to harry the heir, which will make her lady of the vale(after he disposes of sweet robin, i suppose) and help her reclaim the North. Why go through all that ? Does he plan on seducing her or something, then having it all for himself?

The title is more of a joke because I didn’t know how to name this post, but one thing that a lot of people in the ASOIAF fandom say is that people who have Sansa as their favorite character don’t understand her and idealize her or whatever. However, yesterday I joined an ASOIAF Discord group and I mentioned that I would like to see Sansa return to Winterfell (ATTENTION: JUST BACK TO WINTERFELL, NOTHING ABOUT BEING QUEEN IN THE NORTH OR EVEN LADY) and that she would reunite with Jeyne Poole and Lady Stoneheart along the way. It was like opening the gates of hell—seriously, they accused me of trying to steal Arya’s storyline and said Sansa has her "little Vale plot," as if it’s some competition for screen time or something.

Another thing: I agree that Sansa was wrong in every fight she had with Arya in AGOT, without exception. However, she still has her moments of empathy, kindness, and courage in those books, but many people reduce Sansa in book 1 to being a selfish b**** (like, she’s 11 years old). Also, whatever, I’m probably going to get a bunch of downvotes anyway. I love Daenerys, and she’s one of my favorite characters, but seriously, why do her fans hate her so much, and why do Sansa’s fans hate her too? They just accuse each other of discriminating more against the other character. I’ve even been called crazy on Twitter for saying Sansa was my favorite POV, and one of the replies was, "Only crazy people think Sansa’s POVs are better than Daenerys’." Like, sorry for having a different opinion than yours, miss. People act like it’s a football rivalry and are so childish about it.

Besides, I DON’T CARE THAT SANSA ISN’T PART OF THE DAMN KEY FIVE OR BIG FIVE OR WHATEVER—seriously, who cares that she wasn’t included in some outline that George wrote ages ago to sell his books to a publisher or something? Either way, she’s a character as old as those five, so I’m well-fed.

And honestly, as a Sansa fan, I don’t think she’ll have an ending similar to the one in the show. However, I also don’t think she’ll end up married off or as some family matron like most people say. I like to believe that by the end of the story, with her being only about 14 years old, she will finally be safe, even in a broken Westeros, and be warm with her family until spring comes—much stronger and far more capable. Of course, that’s probably just a dream of spring.

Who would you put into the top 3 best and worst Kings of Westeros?

My 3 Best:

1. Jaeherys I. - pretty self explanatory. He picked up the pieces after Maegor and Aenys and is literally called the Conciliator

2. Viserys II. - his reign was short, but he was already quasi-King when serving as Hand. He kept the realm pretty stable, even when serving a King who was obsessed with Dorne.

3. Aegon V. - He travelled among smallfolk, elected probably my top pick for Lord Commander of all time and gave the peasants many rights. Even throughout many revolts he kept the Targaryens on the Throne. The only thing pushing him down to 3. Place instead of 2. Is that he probably became too obsessed with dragons and caused summerhall. I dont think he did it on purpose. He took a risk and when the Ritual was causing deaths, my guess is that he told Dunk to keep helping him with it, and that the casualtys didnt matter at that point. I think him and Dunk had a falling out over that and Dunk saved Rhaella anyway. Its just my theory, but it sounds like something GRRM would write.

3 worst Kings :

1. Aerys II. - he burned people for no reason other than fun and is the cause of the Targaryens losing the Throne. Even every good thing he did as King was due to Tywin as Hand.

2. Maegor - while I DO think he was neccecary for the times and to instill fear of the Targaryens, he went too far. Also him having so many wifes was also not a good idea. He was instrumental in beating back the faith and making up for Aenys, but as I said he was too cruel in his tactics and by the end turned everyone against him. He at least didnt end the line so Aerys II. takes number 1.

3. Rhaenyra/Aegon II. -

What to say... Show only watchers will never know just how horrible Rhaenyra was as a ruler. She was vain and didnt care for the smallfolk or know the first thing about ruling. The show really whitewashed her. She also destabilized the succession by fathering Bastards. And in the books she at least approved of Blood & Cheese, wich i would count as Kinslaying for her & Daemon.

Aegon on the other side didnt even want the crown, nor was he prepared to be King. Obviously that not his fault, but still counts against him. He was also pretty sexist and liked groping servant girls and seducing them. As far as I remember he wasnt a rapist in the books, so I am not gonna count that. He was involved in Rhaenys's death wich also counts as Kinslaying in my book. And when he DID become King he died within a year.

The 2 of them are also responsible for the death of the Dragons (aside from the Maesters)

There’s so many major (and minor) characters that he wrote into the Dance so I’m curious what characters people would think he would write through or want to see the story unfold through.

No arguing that Alister was a jerk, but was he at least a competent jerk? Tyrion and Jon don't think much of his skill but is that because they're biased?

I notice in the fandom there are a tremendous amount of fans who loathe Catelyn. Honestly I don’t really get it. She is a living saint compared to 2/3 of other characters.

She is a dutiful mother, loving wife, and proud, noble if tart tongued lady of a great and noble house.

Sure she has bad judgment calls and is mean to people who don’t deserve it. But she is paranoid and fearful of outsiders. Isn’t she right to be?

She lives in a scary, violent world where one wrong move can mean the end of everything. She was probably clinically depressed for the majority of the time we see her on the page.

Her major sin apparently is not liking Jon snow and not wanting him around. I admit that it is sort of selfish of her and small minded ( due in part to her Tully upbringing.) But all she did was not want to be around him. She never locked him in a dungeon, hurled insults at him or tried to kill him. I suppose the worst she did was undermine his relationships with her kids and made him feel like a cockroach or a dirty rag for existing. But no one is perfect sadly.

She was paranoid, fearful and scared for her kids future and acted poorly in service of that goal. I honestly miss her being around ( in her true form.) For those who hate her, and think she’s the wicked witch of Westeros, can you explain why ?

"three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . ."

• life: the dragons ✅️
• death: mirri maz duur? Mayhaps starting a fire like in the show to become the great khal?
• love: drogo? maybe a pyre to sacrifice herself or/and to protect someone she loves during the Long Night?

"three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . ."

• bed: hizdahr✅️
• dread: drogon✅️
• love: jon?

"three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ."

• blood: viserys? Mirri (blood magic)?
• gold: jorah✅️
• love: jon? (in the show he kills her out of love for his sisters, tyrion is failing to convince him to do so until he mentions Arya and Sansa. This could also mean a treason for blood, choosing his stark side instead of the targaryen)

and if it's treasons SHE'LL commit:

• blood: faegon?
• gold: ?
• love: daario?

hard topic imo. Let me know what you guys think

he would be telling his wife he puts jon’s safety above her children’s (which is exactly what he was doing) jon would be a threat to her kids lives she would hate him worse then when she saw him as a threat to her kids inheritance ( which is natural)