/r/ProtoIndoEuropean

Photograph via snooOG

News, articles and discussion relating to Proto-Indo-European (PIE), the ancient language from which modern Indo-European languages descend, and also Proto-Indo-European people, and their culture, origins and history.

News, articles and discussion relating to Proto-Indo-European (PIE), the ancient language from which modern Indo-European languages descend, and also Proto-Indo-European people, and their culture, origins and history.

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/r/ProtoIndoEuropean

1,414 Subscribers

2

Janus/Ganesha, Jove/Jehova, Saturn/Satyavrata, Pan/Pavan

TIL that William Jones established these four similar pairs of names as evidence for the existence of the Indo-European religion.

Janus/Ganesha

Saturn/Satyavrata

Pan/Pavan

Jove/Jehova

That last one is real interesting: Zev(Zeus) > Siv(Shiva) > Jove(Jupiter) > Jahve(Jehova/Yahweh)

Why are these no longer considered accurate by modern scholars?

Also, what other superficially similar deity names did he equate across Eurasia?

4 Comments
2024/10/28
18:27 UTC

6

What is the process for *sek^w- -> ἔν(ν)επε ?

You will probably tell me something obvious but I am not seeing the resemblance right now. Thank you for any insight.

PS I'm not managing superscripts but hopefully you know what I mean

2 Comments
2024/10/24
21:14 UTC

5

Are "med-" and "meh¹-" related?

They both mean "to measure", and the wiktionary pages for each have a link to the other under the section "See More" with no elaboration. Also, I know the 1 is supposed to be subscript, but I can't do that on my keyboard.

4 Comments
2024/10/08
20:26 UTC

15

How much of the language is reconstructed?

For the ProtoIndoEuropean reconstruction project, how much of the language has been reconstructed? Are there any phonetic dictionaries or phrase books that have compiled the known meanings in a booklet?

4 Comments
2024/10/08
01:27 UTC

7

Likely alphabet for PIE?

I know we have no actual texts, but i wondered if we have any speculations on what type of letters/alphabet PIE may have used? We managed to hypothesise about PIE based on examining related languages, so i wondered if anyone had done something similar with the actual letters/alphabet that PIE could have used?

6 Comments
2024/09/15
21:04 UTC

1

Is it possible wusun spoke indo aryan

I know due to the mitanni it is known that indo aryans likley had presence on the pontic steppe and that there are substrams of indo aryan in central asian languagues like in the suggesting indo aryan presence in central asia predating irannian migration. However I have heard nothing of indo aryan presence eastward in siberia or china, if indo aryan tribe were pushed back by west irannic and east irannic tribes migration from the steppe could the wusun have represented a hold out that migrated eastward towards siberia, mongolia and west china? I know at peast beckwith suggests this is there any linguistic, archeological or genetic evidence for this?

0 Comments
2024/09/15
02:17 UTC

6

Isis and Demeter burning a child to grant immortality while seeking their lost family

How come Demeter's burning of a child at eleusis is so similar to Isis burning the child in byblos? Is this some sort of common motif?

2 Comments
2024/09/06
23:52 UTC

1

Can one learn Proto-Indo-European?

Is it possible to learn this reconstructed language preferable in the form of an online course or book? Also is it possible to speak Proto-Indo-European?

3 Comments
2024/08/23
11:59 UTC

36

Sénā Swedhā́: A (speculative) reconstruction of a Proto-Indo-European religion

This is an outline of my personal interpretation of a modern version of PIE religion.

“Reconstruction” might be too strong of a word given how many speculative decisions were made to fill in inevitable gaps. It’s also based on a post-laryngeal Indo-European language that I just prefer aesthetically. Nevertheless, I would love to know people’s thoughts.

I also want to preemptively express that this project is in no way associated with racist, bigoted, or other ideological hatred.

SÉNĀ SWEDHĀ

Deities, Spirits, and Heroes

  • Wik̑wodeiwṓs (All the gods) / Ṇmṛtṓs (Immortals) / Dṓtores Wéswōm (Givers of goods)Deiwṓs (Celestial Deities) / Dānéwyōs (Children of Dā́nu)
    • Dyḗus Pətḗr (Olyópətēr, Mitrós) (God of the daytime sky, sovereignty, cosmic order, and oaths) → Iuppiter, Dyaus Pita, Zeus, Tyr, Tiwaz, Tin; Olaithir, Olfáthr; Mitra, Mithra, Mithras
    • Diwónā (Diwī́ Mā́tēr, Dhḗsyā, Dhēsónā) (Goddess of marriage, abundance, oaths, magic, destiny, weaving, and domestic crafts. Trifunctional goddess of war, poetic inspiration, sovereignty, wisdom, and artistry; consort of Dyḗus Pətḗr.) → Diana, Dione, Dēvī
    • Áusōs (Áusrā, Diwós Dhugətḗr, Bhṛg̑héntī) (Goddess of the dawn, light, youth, and spring) → Eos, Aurora, Usas, Aušrine, Eostre, Astghik; Brigantia, Brigid
    • Aryomḗn (God of peace, law, contracts, trade, roads, marriage, healing, societal order) → Aryaman, Éremón, Ariomanus, Irmin, Airyaman
    • Diwós Sūnū́ (Ék̑winō, Nósṇtyō, Diwós Népote, Yéwone) (Twin horsemen gods who drive the chariot of the sun goddess. Gods of travel, luck, good harvest, and war; sons of Mēdhéwī with both Dyḗus and Néptonos; husbands of Sā́wōl) → Dioskouroi, Ashvins, Ašvieniai, Dievi Deli
    • Sā́wōl (Sāwélyosyo Dhugətḗr, Diwós Ókʷs) (Goddess of the sun, associated with music, archery, poetry, divination, knowledge, and wisdom) → Suryā, Sol, Sól, Sulis, Sunna, Saulė
    • Mḗnōs (God of the moon, associated with time, hunting, fishing, magic, healing, and learning, brother of Sā́wōl) → Mene, Máni, Meno, Mėnuo, Meness, Miesiats
    • Wēyús (Wēyúpotis) (God of wind) → Vayu, Vėjas, Vejapatis, Vejovis
  • Dhḗses (Warrior Deities) → dik’, dís, θεός, Dagda, dehia, Dhisana
    • Perkʷū́nos (Tṝwónts, Tónəros, Diwós Putlós, Wṛtrógʷhnos) (God of thunder, storms, oak trees, fertility, and war) → Parjanya, Perkuns, Perun, Pērkons; Tarhuntas, Taranis, Þunor, Þórr; Vərəθraγna, Vahagn
    • Ék̑wonā (Mēdhéwī, Médhunā, Serenyū́, Rēg̑ṇtónā) (Goddess of horses, sexuality, marriage, vengeance, sovereignty, and mead) → Epona; Medb, Meduna, Madhavi, Saranyū, Ἐρινύς; Rhiannon
    • Wḷkā́nos (Twérk̑tōr, Tétk̑ōn, Ḷbhús) (Smith and craftsman of the gods, with three Ḷbhéwes as helpers: G̑hḷtóm (Gold), Ṛg̑ṇtóm (Silver), Áyos (Bronze/Copper).) → Volcanus, Wärgon, Wéland, Olcan, Velchanos, Velchans; Tvastr, Θβōrəštar, Tuisto; Ṛbhú, Elf
    • Ṇgʷnís (Leukétyos, Leukópotis, Promṇdhḗus, Lúgōn) (Genderfluid deity of fire, lightning, and artisans. A trickster deity, travel companion of Perkʷū́nos (thunder and lightning). Stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans, and was punished by being chained to a rock and tormented by an animal.) → Agni, Ogňь, Ugnis, Enj; Loucetios, Lūcetius, Laũkpatis; Prometheus, Pramathyú, Mātariśvan; Loki
    • Mā́worts (Kóryonos) (God of war, agriculture, wind; leader of war bands) → Mārs, Māvorts, Marutāḥ; Κοίρανος, Herjan, Corionos
  • Aisṓs (Terrestrial, fertility, and artisan Deities) → Aisir, Aisoi, Eir
    • Dhég̑hōm Mā́tēr (Pḷtáwī Mā́tēr) (Mother Earth goddess associated with plants, nature, fertility, motherhood, food, cooking, and agriculture) → Demeter, Gaia, Zeme, Mati Syra Zemlja, Žemyna; Prithvi Mater, Lelwani, Litavis
    • Apṓm Népōts (Néptonos, Dānúpotis) (God of waters and wells, water and fire, fishing and sailing, knowledge divination, secrets, and magic. He guards the well of the mead of inspiration, Ártumedhu) → Apam Napat; Neptunus; Poseidon, Donbettyr
    • Páusōn (K̑ṝnónos, Pṇtóspotis) (God of shepherds, nature, doorways, roads, and paths; animals, forests, hunting; a psychopomp) → Pan, Pashupati, Puṣan; Carnonos, Kuruntas; Pathaspatiḥ
    • Wéstyā (Démspotnī, Tépṇtī) (Goddess of the hearth, fire, home, and food stores) → Vesta, Hestia; Δέσποινα, dəmąnō.paθnī; Tabiti
    • Bhā́gos (Wésunos, Wesúpotis) (God of fate, luck, and wealth) → Bhága, Bagaios, bog
    • Wélnos (Death-and-rebirth god of the underworld, the dead, winter; cattle, flocks, wealth; the night sky, the sea; poetry, magic) → Veles, Vala, Ullr, Vēlinas
    • Mórā (Mértis, K̑ólyā) (Goddess of death, the underworld, and winter) → Morena, Morana, Māra, Mors; Kalypso, Hel, Saurva, Śarva, Kālī, Koljo
  • Ánsewes (Ámsewes) (Nature spirits) → asura, ahura, hassu, æsir
    • Deiwṓs Yéwones (Ánsewes (Diwyṓs)) (Minor/younger deities)
    • Ḷbhéwes (Land Spirits, elves, dwarves) → Elves, álfar, ṛbhu
    • Néigʷes (Water spirits, nymphs)
    • Dṃyṓs (Démspoteyes) (Household spirits)
    • Bhā́gōs (Dáimones, G̑ṇ̄yṓs) (Personal guardians, tutelary deities, usually in the form of an animal. Companion guardian spirit, invisible to the accompanied person until the time preceding their death.) → Bogъ, Daimon, Genius, Fylgja
  • Dhróughōs (Ṇdhérōs, Rétk̑esōs) (Demons, chthonic spirits)
    • Wṛ́tros (Ógʷhis, G̑érwōn) (Three-headed serpent, slain by Perkʷū́nos and Tritós) → Vrtraḥ; Ahi, Aži; Geryon
    • G̑éronts (Ferryman of souls to the otherworld) → Charon, járant
    • K̑érberos (Ghéredhs) (Three-headed dog that guards the underworld) → Cerberus, śarbala, Garmr
    • Ghūg̑hís (A giantess/demon of snow and caves) → Gýgr, gyger, gùžė, guhā
    • Ógʷheyes (Kʷṛ́meyes) (Dragons, serpent-like demons) → ὄφις, ahi, aži; wyrm, kŕ̥miš
    • Kábeirōs (Demons/foreign gods associated with treasures and wealth) → Kúberaḥ, Κάβειροι
    • Mórās (Demonesses, phantoms, nightmares) & Mórmones (Bhórmones) (Ghosts, phantoms, demons)→ mara, mora, mære, μόρος
  • G̑hṃg̑ṇ̄tṓs (Pk̑úklōpes, Édunōs) (Twelve primordial giants, the offspring of Yemós, and the predecessors of the Deiwṓs) / Senṓs Deiwṓs (Próg̑enōs Deiwṓs) (The Old Gods)
    • Wórunos (Wérunos, Ák̑mōn) (One-eyed God of the night sky. Associated with the ocean, grandfather of Dyḗus Pətḗr) → Varuna, Ouranos; Άκμω, Akmuo, Aśman
    • Séwətōr (Bélis Mōrós) (Ruler of Earth during the Golden Age. God of fertility, famine, agriculture, the sunset, and autumn. He ate his children after hearing of a prophecy that they would overthrow him. He is defeated by his youngest son, Dyḗus Pətḗr, who was hidden by his wife, Dā́nu. Father of Dyḗus Pətḗr, Dhég̑hōm Mā́tēr, Apṓm Népōts, and Diwónā.) → Savitr, Saturnus; Beli Mawr, Balor, Beli, Mahabali/Bali Maharaj, Beli Vid (Svetovid), Baloz
    • Rudlós (Wā́tonos, Léudheros) (God of alcohol, frenzy, wild nature, poetry, shamanism, and arcane wisdom; healer of plagues.) → Rudianos, Rudiobus, Rudra, Rugievit, Ruglъ, Rūgutis; Oðinn, Woden, Ódr; ’Ελεύθερος, Liber, Lódurr
    • Aiwṓn (Wétos, Nūyályos) (God of time and aging) → Aeon; Ένυάλιος
    • Swépnos (Régʷos) (God of sleep, dreams, and darkness) → Hypnos, Somnus; Erebus
    • Ōk̑eyṃ̄nós (A great dragon residing in the Ocean) → Okeanos, Aśayana
    • Érā (Earth and Underworld deity, mother of Bélis Mōrós) → Jörð, Rhea, Ericura
    • Ang̑hésonā (Éghinā, Dṓtis) (A forest-dwelling witch and mother of monsters. Antithesis of her sister, Dā́nu) → Angrboda, Angerona, Angitia, Echidna, Baba Yaga, Ragana; Diti, Doris
    • Dā́nu (Seikʷṇyā́, Ṇdṓtis) (Goddess of rivers and fertility; mother of the Deiwṓs) → Danu, Dānu, Dôn; Sequana, Sicouna, Sigyn; Aditi, Anahita, Anahit
    • Mḗtis (Méntis, Mṇsdhā́) (Personification of skill, memory, wisdom) → Metis, Mnemosyne, Moneta, Mazda
    • Nūyṓi (Kréwənā, G̑erā́) (Goddess of decay, violent war, bloodlust, and slow death; the personification of old age) → Ένυώ, Nyja, Nasu, Nirṛta, Lua Mater; Geras, jarā́
    • Nókʷts (Goddess of the night and darkness. She and Áusōs follow after each other, riding on horses.) → Nyx, Nótt, Nox

Néres (Demigods, Heroes, and other Spirits) → nera, nóras, neros, anḗr, nā́, nēr, αναρ

Myths

  • The Cosmic Egg: A cosmic egg arises from the primordial void/abyss, containing within it the potential for all life and existence.
  • Creation Sacrifice: Mónus sacrifices Yemós and creates the elements of the world from the parts of his body.
  • Slaying the Serpent: The sky gods (Deiwṓs) offer Tritós cattle, which is then stolen by a great serpent (Wṛ́tros), who is then slain by Perkʷū́nos with the help of Tritós.
  • Birth of the Twins: Mēdhéwī is kidnapped by Dyḗus and gives birth to Diwós Sūnū́.
  • The Cattle Raid: Clouds/Cows stolen from Dyḗus Pətḗr by a trickster (Páusōn, Leukétyos, or Wēyús), then returned.
  • Sacred Drink: Perkʷū́nos goes on a quest for the elixir of immortality (Ṇmṛtóm).
  • The Great Flood: Dā́nu is cut open after drinking from the well of Apṓm Népōts, creating a river or causing a flood.
  • Gigantomachy: A conflict between the G̑hṃg̑ṇ̄tṓs and the Deiwṓs. Led by Dyḗus, the Deiwṓs rebelled against the G̑hṃg̑ṇ̄tṓs, engaged in a great war with them, and emerged victorious.
  • The War of the Functions: The Ánsewes invade heaven, war with the Deiwṓs.
  • The One-Handed God and the One-Eyed God: A god, Dyḗus or Aryomḗn, loses a hand while fighting a demon. Wélnos gives up an eye in exchange for secret knowledge.
  • Dawn’s Lover: Áusōs mourns the aging and death of a mortal lover, Ausiwendhós.
  • Theft of fire: Promṇdhḗus (Leukétyos) steals fire from the gods and gives it to humans. He receives punishment from the gods thereafter.
  • The Lady with the Mead Cup: A horse goddess (Mēdhéwī) brings sovereignty to a male figure who would assume the kingship (Ek̑womedhwós).
  • The King and the Virgin: King Ek̑womedhwós is saved by the Diwós Sūnū́, sons of his daughter Mēdhéwī, after seeing his future threatened by rebellious sons, Árg̑unos and Wesuk̑léwēs.
  • Cyclical Myths: 1) Diwós Sūnū́ fight over Sāwélyosyo Dhugətḗr, kidnapping her and causing night and day. 2) Perkʷū́nos and Wélnos fight, bringing about the changing seasons (cf. Twilight of the Gods).
  • The Threefold Death: A dying god (Wélnos) is killed or sacrificed in three ways at once: by hanging (1st Function), piercing with a weapon (2nd Function), and drowning (3rd Function).
  • The Wild Hunt: A wind god (Wēyús or Rudlós) leads a group of ghostly hunters (Gʷhedhruwṓs) through the air.
  • Twilight of the Gods: 1) An archdemon (Wélnos or Bélis Mōrós) becomes the unjust/harsh leader of the gods, whom he enslaves and forces to build fortifications. 2) As a result of a heinous act, he takes refuge with his relatives or is bound by the gods. 3) A hero (Perkʷū́nos or Nértos), the archdemon’s nephew/grandson (népōts) leads a final battle against him. This represents the “present”, a cosmic winter in which many notable among the community of gods and their adversaries are slain, finishing with the end of a temporal "cycle" or era.

Cosmology and Ethics

  • Ghórdhōs (Worlds, realms) → garda, gardh, gárdas, gardaz, kerccī, gordum
    • Medhyódoru (The World Tree: A great oak tree that connects the three realms)
    • Ák̑mōn (Dyḗus) (Sky, heaven, land of the Deiwṓs) “The sky, Heaven”
      • Ṇmṛtóm (Nek̑tṝ́) (The elixir that maintains the gods’ immortality) → νέκτᾰρ, ambrosia, soma
      • Sómōn Deiwṓm (Assembly of the gods) / Sédlom Deiwṓm (Seat of the gods) → athnátōn hédos, diviyám sádas
      • Swelgʷṃ́s (Aryomnés Póntōs) (The bridge to the Otherworld: a rainbow or the Milky Way, guarded by Aryomḗn.) “The Sun’s Path” → svarga, Svarog; Aryamṇáḥ Pánthāḥ
    • Médhyom, Dhég̑hōm (Middle World, Earth) 
      • Tréyes Dṃniyṓs (The three dominions of Médhyom) → damnyos, dominium, δομή
      • Perkʷūnyā́ (The realm of Perkʷū́nos, located in the wooded mountains)
      • Usés Mág̑hās (Álbhiyōn) (An island on the Western horizon, where Áusōs resides and tends to her apples of immortality which grow on the world tree. It is also the home of the Wḗtōs and the souls of the blessed dead.) → Avalon, Śvetadvīpam, Hyperborea, Tír na nÓg, Ódáinsakr
    • Dhubnóm (Bhudhmḗn) (Underworld, land of the dead, the Ámsewes, and the Dhróughōs)
      • Artúbhrēwṛ (Flaming well guarded by Apṓm Népōts, which holds the Ártumedhu that waters the World Tree.) → Urðarbrunnr, Lethe, Arbhaka's Well
      • Nā́wis (A river that the dead must cross to reach the underworld) → Navь, Styx
      • Mṛtwṓs (Ancestors, souls of the dead)
  • Ḗtmṇ (Ánəmōn) (The soul, composed of two parts: the kʷistís either remains after death and can receive offerings or is reincarnated, whereas the méntis travels to the Otherworld upon death, joining the collective Ancestors) → ēþmô, āñcäm, ἦτορ, athach; hołm, ánemos, animus, anamúm
    • Kʷistís (Kʷek̑ís) (Spirit; logic, reasoning) → huginn, čákšu, τέκμᾰρ, koṣkīye
    • Méntis (Ménmṇ) (Soul; memory, wisdom) → muninn, mintis, μάντις, matí, mēns
    • Óyu (Yḗgʷā) (Life force, vital energy) → ayú, ā́yu, aevum; ἥβη, jēga
  • Ártus (The principle of natural order which regulates and coordinates the operation of the universe and everything within it.) → ṛta, arta, aṣ̌a, ritus, wyrd, arête, harmonia
    • Swā́rtus (Dhérmṇ) (Personal law, duty, conscience) → (Swe- + Ártus), dharma
      • Swédhōs (Swedhā́s) (Individual deeds, ethics, parts of one’s Swā́rtus) → ethos, svadhā
    • Dhḗtis (Dhḗmṇ) (Worldly/human law. This notion of law includes an active principle, denoting an activity in obedience to the Ártus.) → dēdiz, θέσις, fētialis, dhītí, blago-dětĭ
    • Yéwōs (Ritual laws, the rules according to which a ritual is to be performed, a reflection in ritual action of the Ártus.) → iūs, yós, yaoš
  • G̑hā́nos (G̑həwós, Ṇbhūtóm, Ṇṛtóm) (Chaos, void; antithesis of the Ártus) → koy, χάος, gómr, gomurỹs; nebytъ, abhava
  • Néwṇ Dék̑ōs (The Nine Virtues) → dagos, dech, decus, dā́ś
    • Third Function (wṓik̑yōs, producers and artisans):
      • Méitrom (Friendship, kindness, hospitality) → miθra, mitra, μίτρα
      • Mḗdos (Moderation, temperance, restraint) → modus, μήδεα, mit, messus
      • Bhoidhā́ (Loyalty, faith, duty) → fidēs, běda, bē, bādhá
    • Second Function (tk̑étriyōs, warriors and sovereigns):
      • K̑léwos (Glory, fame, excellence) → kleos, śravaḥ, slava, clú
      • Dék̑os (Honor, respect, integrity) → dagos, dech, decus, dā́ś
      • Nṛtóm (Courage, bravery, might) → nertom, nóras, nertien, ānnara
    • First Function (bhérg̑hmenes, priests and poets):
      • Widyóm (Wisdom, knowledge, vision) → vidya, witją, vizë, ἰδέᾱ
      • Yéwos (Justice, fairness, equality) → iūs, yós, yaoš
      • Sṇtyóm (Truth, sooth, faith) → satya, ὄν, senë, sañt

Holy Days

  • Dā́pes (Dəpnā́) (Holy days) → daps, tafn, damnum, daunā, δαπάνη
  • Newoléukos (New Year): March 21 – This day is sacred to Áusōs, the goddess of springtime, and marks the beginning of a new year. Effigies of Mórā, symbolizing winter, are burned as a part of the celebration. The Spring Equinox, occurring when the sun crosses the celestial equator, represents the arrival of spring and the renewal of life in nature.
  • Upósəmos (Summerfinding): May 1 – Sacred to the Ánsewes, particularly Priyā́ and Yḗros, Summerfinding is a celebration of new crop planting and gathering ritual waters. It welcomes the arrival of summer and symbolizes fertility, passion, and abundance. 
  • Medhyósəmos (Midsummer): Summer Solstice – This day celebrates the union of the sun goddess Sā́wōl and Diwós Sūnū́. The Summer Solstice, the longest day and shortest night of the year, symbolizes the pinnacle of light and warmth. 
  • Perkʷū́nyā (Feast of Perkʷū́nos / Dimming): August 1 – A festival dedicated to Perkʷū́nos, this day commemorates the first harvest and the plentiful grains of the Earth. It is a time to express gratitude for the harvest, pay homage to the god Perkʷū́nos, and revel in the bountiful results of agricultural labor.
  • Ésōn (Harvest): Autumn Equinox – A sacred harvest celebration dedicated to Pḷtáwī Mā́tēr, the Autumn Equinox represents the equilibrium between day and night. This day is an occasion to express gratitude for the second harvest, contemplate the cycles of life and death, and make preparations for the impending winter.
  • Upóg̑heyōm (Winterfinding): November 1 – Festival of the Dead and the start of winter. It is a time when the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead is the thinnest. A day to honor the ancestors. This day is also sacred to Yemós, Ék̑wonā and Mórā.
  • Medhyóg̑heyōm (Midwinter): Winter Solstice – In honor of the birth of Diwós Sūnū́. the Winter Solstice marks the shortest day and the longest night of the year. It symbolizes the return of light and hope and celebrates the rebirth of the sun and the renewal of life. 
  • Wélṇyā (Feast of Wélnos / Brightening): February 1 – A festival in honor of Wélnos. This day represents the awakening of the land from its winter slumber. It is associated with the first signs of spring, the beginning of the lambing season, and the god Wélnos and the goddess Wéstyā. A day to honor the hearth, creativity, and the growing light.

Ritual

  • G̑héutrom (Ritual Offering) → hótram, χύτρα
    • 1. G̑hésṛnigʷs (Ritual Purification) - A dish to hold offerings and an altar are set up using local natural materials (wooden logs, clay, stone, etc.). A shallow fire pit is prepared next to the altar. A bowl of water is blessed with a prayer to Apṓm Népōts. Participants’ faces and hands are cleansed with the blessed water. Offerings are prepared and purified with the same water. Mind and body are prepared through meditation, breathwork, and chanting.
    • 2. Némesos Dhḗtis (Establishing Sacred Space) - Local land/house spirit is asked for permission to hold the ritual in its space and a small offering is made (e.g. nuts, milk, water). A bullroarer or shaker is used to ward off evil spirits and announce the ritual to friendly ones, local land spirits, and ancestors are invited to participate. An omen is taken to see if the day and time are auspicious for sacrifice.
    • 3. Ásās Áistis (Lighting Altar Fire) - The three worlds are ritually reconstructed through ritual prayer. The Ā́terwēn lights a fire in the pit, using birch bark tinder and bow drill. An offering of ádōs, a mixture of dried sage, mugwort, chamomile, and juniper, is given to Wéstyā. The fire is fed throughout the ritual and the herbs are left smoldering on the embers set to the side to act as incense and purify the space with smoke. A cup of water is placed on the ground near the altar as an offering to the spirits in attendance.
    • 4. Sómṇ (Hymn) - Deities or spirits of the ritual are invoked, their attributes and epithets are listed and the reason for invocation is stated. Invocation is chanted or sung (depending on the intention and overall mood of the ceremony), accompanied by a shaker.
    • 5. Spóndās (Libations) - A libation is poured into the fire as an initial offering to the invoked deities/spirits, as well as to deities, spirits, and ancestors not specifically invoked.
    • 6. Ádbhertās (Sacrifice) - The offerings are carried around the Némos in a clockwise circle, as all participants lay hands upon it, infusing it with their prayers and wishes. Offerings are placed on the altar and the purpose of the offerings is stated.
      • Ádbhertās Albhā́s: White offerings (e.g. Songs, poems, prayers)
      • Ádbhertās Rudhrā́s: Red offerings (e.g. Animals, meat, blood, weapons)
      • Ádbhertās Kṛsnā́s: Black offerings (e.g. Fruits, grains, drinks, butter, herbs)
    • 7. Ówiyōn (Omen) - An omen is taken by the Wā́tis to see if the sacrifice has been accepted. The typical methods of divination are diwós ówiyōn (aeromancy), g̑hmés ówiyōn (geomancy), and udnés ówiyōn (hydromancy). A piacular offering is made if any errors were committed during the ritual.
    • 8. Dā́ps (Dəpnóm) (Ritual Feast) - Participants share the horn of libation and/or the meat of the sacrificed animal. This step establishes a relationship of reciprocity between the participants of the ritual and the deities and spirits addressed in the ceremony. If the offering was made to a Chthonic deity or the dead, then this step is skipped. Music is played on an overtone flute according to the overall mood of the ceremony.
    • 9. Ásās Sgʷéstis (Extinguishing of ritual fire) - Thanks are given to all entities for attending and participating in the ceremony. The fire is put out and the space is returned to its original state, with only the altar and offerings remaining.
  • Ásā (Altar, sacrificial fire) “Altar”, “hearth”
    • Némos (Ghórdhos) (Sacred space where rituals take place) “Enclosure”, “Grove” 
    • Dhəsnóm (Álks) (shrine, temple, sanctuary, place dedicated to a deity) “Shrine”, “Temple”
    • Bhérg̑hmṇ (Seat of the gods, bundle of grass and twigs where altar is placed)
  • Swédhālis (pl. Swedhā́leyes) (Practitioner of Sénā Swedhā́ (the old tradition).)
    • Bhérg̑hmēn (Generic term for any priest) “Priest”
      • Yag̑nós (Yág̑us) (Worship, sacrifice, ritual)
      • Tyégʷos (Worship, piety, awe)
    • G̑héutōr (Priest in charge of prayers and invocations) “Caller, invoking, chanter”
      • Érkʷos (Song, prayer of praise)
      • Móldhos (Gʷhédhā) (Prayer, invocation)
    • Ádbhertōr (Priest in charge of offerings and libations) “Offerer, sacrificer”
      • Ádbhertā (Offering, sacrifice)
      • G̑héutrom (Ritual, ceremony of offering)
      • Spóndā (Libation, poured offering)
    • Ā́terwēn (Priestess in charge of tending the ritual fire) “Fire tender”
      • Óngʷṇ (Butter, oil – offering cast into fire)
    • Bhā́dhlis (Lḗgis) “Enchanter, healer, physician”
      • Ádōs (A mixture of dried barley and salt used for ritual purification and healing.)
    • Wā́tis (Seer, priest who takes omens) “Seer, shaman”
      • Wā́tus (Poetic inspiration, shamanic possession)
      • Ówiyōn (Omen, prophesy)
    • Drúwids (pl. Drúwides) (Expert in plants, herbs, and trees) “Druid”
      • Ábōlnis (Apple) = Healing, health, Sā́wōl
      • Bhāg̑ós (Beech) = End, death, Mórā
      • Bhérāg̑s (Birch) = Beginnings, growth, Áusōs
      • Eiwā́ (Yew) = Travel, immortality, Páusōn
      • Kóslos (Hazel) = Wisdom, magic, Wélnos
      • Élem (Elm) = Love, Otherworld, Priyā́
      • Ṓsenos (Ṓskos) (Ash) = Luck, protection, Diwós Sūnū́
      • Pérkʷus (Oak) = Strength, power, Perkʷū́nos
      • Sórbhos (Rowan) = Protection, wisdom, Wéstyā
      • Wernā́ (Álisā) (Alder) = Growth, strength, Dyḗus
      • Wídhus (Willow) = Inspiration, emotion, Mḗnōs
    • Kowḗis “Seer, sage, poet, magician”
      • Sṓitos “Magic”
19 Comments
2024/08/18
16:06 UTC

1

PIE for "Bear" "Bär" was PIE for "Bear" "Bär" was *h₂ŕ̥tḱos but the Germanic language lost it. If that wasnt the case, what would it be today in Englisch (perhaps "arth") or German? but the Germanic language lost it. If that wasnt the case, what would it be today in Englisch (perhaps "arth") or Ger

Im searching for ideas what would *h₂ŕ̥tḱos be If it still would be present through the two fowl shifts in the German language?

1 Comment
2024/08/15
10:24 UTC

3

Any good of a book?

Is Deep Ancestors: Practicing the Religion of the Proto-Indo-Europeans by Ceisiwr Serith any good

1 Comment
2024/07/21
10:07 UTC

10

Where to start courses on Proto-Indo-European

Are there any platforms that provide lessons/courses on this language/analyzing and understanding it? I already have a firm grip on almost all sub-european languages covering Hellenic, Baltic, Scandinavian, Germanic, Latin and Slavic and I would like to give a try on their even more ancient bases. Preferably, if there's a platform that is free it would be appreciated but I don't mind paying a subscription. Thanks in advance.

4 Comments
2024/07/18
11:49 UTC

12

Of Lords and Gods: What differentiated Hasuras and Dwyes?

From what I've gathered regarding the Proto-IndoEuropean "divine conflict", there used to be two groups, the Hasuras "Lords" and the Dwyes "Gods". Then, some equivalent to a massive social clash occurred, translating into the myth of these two groups fighting eachother (Aesir and Vanir, Olympians and Titans, Ahuras and Daevas, Devas and Asuras, ect).

What it's never explained though, is why there were two groups. What made the Hasuras and Dwyes different from eachother? Was it their closeness with human? What they represented and teached?

What differentiated Lords and Gods?

1 Comment
2024/07/14
00:55 UTC

9

The difference between perfective, imperfective, and stative verbs.

As far as I understand it, all verbs in Proto-Indo-European have perfective, imperfective, and stative forms. My question is twofold: is my understanding accurate and, if so, how would one translate the three forms of a verb into English, assuming that the root means 'punch?'

3 Comments
2024/07/09
17:37 UTC

9

Throat singing in Reconstructed PIE

1 Comment
2024/07/03
16:39 UTC

5

“lewqs newahtosyo ɢʷemti ṣoḥwl n-wiqtos klewetor ṣoḥwl n-wiqtom genˀtōr lewqs klume bʰere nsmey lewqm toy bʰere nsmey ɢʷoyɣom bʰere nsmey yeˀni tosmi segʰos meghlom“

1 Comment
2024/06/30
20:16 UTC

26

Tewtéh₃rḗǵs - A Proto-Indo-European Personal Name?

I found descendants of this name in Proto-Germanic and Proto-Celtic (Þeudōrīks and Toutorīxs), meaning this is is likely only from Western PIE, but it's still fun to think about. This name would be the ancestor of the names Derek, Dirk, Terry, Dietrich, Theodoric and Tudor.

6 Comments
2024/06/11
14:24 UTC

6

a constructed word meaning "the pleasure of speaking with a friend" from PIE roots.

plehwerkerd.

pleh₁ = the root of pleasure, literally meaning to be full.

wer = the root of verse, verb, and word.

kerd = the root of the word for heart, specifically cardiac through classical greek.

e,g. i feel/am plewerkerd.

5 Comments
2024/05/17
09:19 UTC

1

PIE plural

I would like to know the plural for words in PIE. (Dakru = dakrus or something of the sort)

5 Comments
2024/05/05
21:48 UTC

1

How is the verb "to stop" called in PIE?

1 Comment
2024/04/20
20:17 UTC

17

Who first did the *diéus *ph₂tḗr name reconstruct?

In A45 (2000), Stefan Arvidsson, in his Aryan Idols, wrote the following summary of William Jones’ article “On the Gods of Greece, Italy, and India” (171A/1784):

https://preview.redd.it/mqo5inqt62uc1.jpg?width=1356&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=551f07d2d58e6e622789ad8fd95bcfa2643e0b61

Which Arvidsson says is where the first Greek + Latin + Indian word-reconstruct of theoretical PIE *diéus *ph₂tḗr term, a combination of: Διας (Zeus) Πατερ (Pater), in Greek, Deus-Piter (Jupiter), in Latin, and Dyaus (द्यौष्) Pita (पितृ), in Sanskrit, was done.

However, I’ve been shortly reading Jones’s article, who seems to first mention Jupiter and Divespetir (or Diues-Petir) on page 248:

https://preview.redd.it/t33xt02p82uc1.jpg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4801a62eaafe7d266d3977b853c89ce96d407a71

but I can’t find what page he does a “word reconstruct”?

Thus, I’m asking if anyone knows who exactly did the first *diéus *ph₂tḗr word reconstruct, and also when the letter accents or IPA phonetics were first used, and when the * was first used to mean “reconstructed“, if it was not Jones who did this?

References

  • Arvidsson, Stefan. (A45/2000). Aryan Idols: Indo-European Mythology as Ideology and Science (Ariska idoler: Den indoeuropeiska mytologin som ideologi och vetenskap) (translator: Sonia Wishmann) (pdf-file). Chicago, A51/2006.
  • Jones, William. (171A/1784). “On the Gods of Greece, Italy, and India”, Publisher. (b) Jones, William. (156A/1799). The Works of Sir William Jones, Volume One (§: On the Gods of Greece, Italy, and India, pgs. 229-80; Jupiter, 14+ pgs.; main, pg. 248)
4 Comments
2024/04/12
14:42 UTC

6

Nominalization

I noticed some verbs can turn into nouns, like *bher- (to bear) to *bhēreh² (that which is carrying). How does it work and is it possible to turn a conjugated verb into a noun (e.g.: *sekw- "to say" to *sēkwesieh², "what you say")? For example, is it correct to say something like h²oyu kwid sēkwesiāmsekwesiómsekwesimn¹ kwersi, "you never did what you say" (where *h²oyu kwid is an idiom meaning "(not) ever (in your life))?

¹I thought the -ós and the -mn suffixes could work as well

5 Comments
2024/04/08
20:11 UTC

1

Help converting PIE **deh₂mokr̥tiḱós & PIE **reh₁ís poplh₁iḱéh₂ into Classical Persian?

0 Comments
2024/04/04
18:14 UTC

4

Question about the word Danau

A question.
In Bali the word for Lake is Danau. It's an Indonesian and Malay word.
These lakes are sacred to the Hindu water Goddess Danu and water and goddesses like Danu in Ireland and the Danube River.

Danu is clearly indoeuropean but every online etymology I'm seeing for Danau has it as "Proto-Malayic *danaw, from Proto-Malayo-Polynesian *danaw, from Proto-Austronesian *danaw (“lake”)."

Does anyone have a take on this? These are clearly related. Is there a strong reason to think it's Austronesian?

Thank you

8 Comments
2024/03/30
20:43 UTC

8

Meaning of *h₁er-

Nerding out over Indo-European etymology and trying to get to the bottom of this.

According to Wiktionary (idk how reliable it is for PIE stuff), the Indic word 'अर्थ' - which has many meanings, but primary among them meaning or purpose - comes from the Proto-Indo-Iranian *Hártʰam (“matter, object, purpose”). If you click the link to the latter, it's supposed to come from the Proto-Indo-European *h₁er-tHo-, which itself is said to come from *h₁er- (“to arrive, get somewhere”.

However, if you go for the link to *h₁er- itself, the only meaning that's given is 'earth'. Indeed, if you go to the entry for 'earth' on Wiktionary and follow it back, it is said to come from *h₁er-.

Now to add to the confusion, on Paleolexicon, *h₁er- is said to mean 'goat' - https://www.palaeolexicon.com/Word/Show/19683 - which doesn't seem entirely implausible, given the word 'hircine'.

What gives?

3 Comments
2024/03/21
03:35 UTC

4

I got really excited about this new information, only to realize that Indo-European history was not even related...

I was watching a documentary series called Wild Carpathia, mainly because I'm interested in traveling to this particular region. All of a sudden, they bring up the fact that this region has been inhabited for millennia, since the Neolithic. I thought, "well duh, it was one of the original cradles of humanity," but hey, it's not very often that anything to do with Neolithic Europe comes up in a mainstream documentary series. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOLbLC7dxaQ&t=9m12s

I've never heard of these "Neolithic" rock dwellings, maybe there is some connection to Old Europe during PIE expansion! I can't figure out where they are, the series says they are in the "hills above cults." I end up using Google lens to figure out where they are. They're called Bozioru's Cave Settlements, aka "Pestera Lui Iosif", and they are believed to be carved by monks during the middle ages...why?! Why are you talking about Neolithic times and using a medieval age monk monastery to showcase it!!! There is so much amazing history that ordinary viewers of this series could have seen from these areas and THIS IS WHAT YOU CHOOSE?!

1 Comment
2024/03/04
00:11 UTC

2

What haplogroup did Yamnaya women have?

Google is no help.

0 Comments
2024/01/14
08:32 UTC

7

Alternative voicing theory.

I had a realization that I really want to share regarding the nature of the three way tenuous, aspirate and voiced stop distinction. If you think I'm full of sh*t, PLEASE CALL ME OUT because I'm looking for either validation or counterclaims to this theory of mine.

Regarding the three way distinction of stops, represented as P, B and Bʰ, I think this interpretation HAS to be false considering the reflexes of this distinction into daughter languages. Ive considered the glottalized theory, but it didn't sit well with me, and I asked myself this question:

What kind of stop could reflex as voiceless in some languages (germanic and maybe possibly hittite), and voiced in all others? These are PIE "voiced stops."

What kind of stop could reflex as fricative in one language (germanic), tenuous in another (italic, celtic, russian) and geminated in another? (Hittite) These are PIE "tenuous stops."

What kind of stop could reflex as voiced in some languages (germanic, slavic, Iranian), breathy voiced in one (indic), aspirated in some (Greek, Armenian) and fricative in others? (italic, celtic) These are PIE "aspirated stops."

The final question was the hardest considering the other two, then I had an idea from two big factors, firstly, a syllable could not contain two "voiced stops," secondly a syllable could not vontain both an aspirate and a tenuous stop. From these two constrictions, I realized that maybe it wasn't a voicing distinction of the stop, but the WHOLE SYLLABLE?

If this theory was true, it would separate the stop series into three groups, that I'd call stressed voiceless, stressed voiced and neutral stops.

Stressed voiceless stops, represented in current PIE by symbols *p, *t, *ḱ, *kʷ, *k, represented voiceless syllables. They were possibly aspirated, pharyngelized, glottalized, etc, but they certainly were not tenuous. Presence of a stressed voiceless stop meant the whole syllable was voiceless.

Stressed voiced stops, represented in current PIE by symbols *bʰ, *dʰ, *ǵʰ, *gʷʰ, *gʰ, represented voiced syllables. The presence of one of these consonants meant the entire syllable was voiced. I doubt they were "breathy voiced," they were possibly implossives or pharyngealized-voiced.

*It's already considered likely that *z was a common allophone of PIE *s in proximity to voiced consonants, and its indeed possible for any daughter language in question devoiced *z in a syllable with a historical stressed-voiced consonant, look at spanish with merged /ʃ/ and /ʒ/ to voiceless /x/, and Argentinians did it again shifting /ʒ/ from historical /j/ to /ʃ/ in younger populations.

Neutral stops, represented in current PIE by the symbols *b, *d, *ǵ, *gʷ, *g, were neutral and could be tenuous or voiced depending on the context. Hence no syllable could have two of these, if it did, the speaker wouldn't know what Intonation, voiced or voiceless, to use.

Using this theory can explain a lot of these discrepancies in my opinion. I'll give some examples here, assuming that the stressed plosibes represented pharyngealization, which I think makes the most sense.

Germanic

*p /pˤ/ > /pʰ/ > /ɸ(f)/ *f

*b /b ~ p/ > /p/ > /p ~ pʰ/ *p

*bʰ /bˤ/ > /b/ > /b ~ β(v)/ *b

This could possibly play into how in proto-germanic phonemic word stress was lost, and so the articulation stress of stops didn't matter nearly as much (somehow?)

Greek

*p /pˤ/ > /p/

*b /b ~ p/ > /b/

*bʰ /bˤ/ > /pʰ/

I admit that /bˤ/ > /pʰ/ is a stretch, but if /pˤ/ became /p/ because /p ~ b/ became standardly /b/, it's not too unlikely for /bˤ/ to decoice (and then aspirate) in response to being the last stop series left with an inherently stressed articulation.

Italic

*p /pˤ/ > /p/

*b /b ~ p/ > /b/

*bʰ /bˤ/ > /pʰ/ > /ɸ(f)/

Celtic, Slavic (Iranian)

*p /pˤ/ > /p/

*b /b ~ p/ > /b/

*bʰ /bˤ/ > /b/

Indic

*p /pˤ/ > /p/

*b /b ~ p/ > /b/

*bʰ /bˤ/ > /bʰ/

(*pH > /pʰ/)

Hittite

*p /pˤ/ > /pː/

*b /b ~ p/ > /p (~ b)/

*bʰ /bˤ/ > /p (~ b)/

Hittite might be an example that they weren't pharyngelized, but possibly "strongly articulated," like in modern Korean.

This theory would also support the theory that Laryngeal *h¹ (yes I know the number is supposed to be below it but idc) represented a glottal stop /ʔ/ because, if you know anything about reconstruct PIE phonotactics, an open root syllable cannot exist, it has to start and end with a consonant, and this may be because transferring from one voicing pattern to a second one on the fly was difficult, and so a glottal stop /ʔ/ need be inserted bergen every word and inflectional suffix that added a new syllable. Yes, there are inflectional suffixes that end in a vowel and not *h¹, but this is solvable because the next following word DOES start with a consonant or an *h¹, preventing difficlt-to-pronounce sudden Intonation shifts.

As a foot note, I don't often see very many common inflectional suffixes from PIE containing an aspirate, this may be because voicing was only distinct in roots and in and suffixes it was not, hence a suffix didn't need to end in a consonant. Reflexes showing stressed-voiceless consonants in these positions may actually be showing a reconstruction of a positional reflex of neutral stops. For this specific claim I'm making in this final foot note, I need to do my own further research as I literally only came up with this as I was writing this.

Thanks for making it this far.

5 Comments
2024/01/12
22:18 UTC

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