So I just finished watching legacies and I wanna know which twin is stronger but my opinion Lizzie might just be more powerful At first I thought Josie was stronger because of their fight and then the entire dark Josie who is nowhere near as strong as her current self and now Lizzie is a heretic first thing Lizzie can't die to much things and Josie abilities can't do significant harm to Lizzie because of her healing fact this is where the big difference comes because since Lizzie is a heretic she's quite durable so pain infliction can't take her out
Fire can take her out but Lizzie knows shield spells that she was confident could tank ken explosion that put him to near death Fire is the only offensive ability josie can do that can actually kill her Lizzie has enhance reflex so her reaction time is above that of human,wolf and hunters even witches because they are just humans with powers Lizzie can kill Josie with multiple attacks Pain infliction Freeze spell Pyrokinesis Telekinesis yes telekinesis if she is thrown into a wall with enough force she can hit her head and die while if Josie did this to Lizzie she will be okay because of her vampire side on top of all this Josie would need to siphon something that is even at the power of a heretic or more powerful And Josie doesn't have any magic item that is powerful as a heretic that is siphoning the vampirism spell not on par with originals but the types of magic in the vampirism is what makes the vampirism so powerful It has dark magic Esther magic And a celestial even The sun So it is pretty powerful not only this the magic basically Regen a like a pipe continuously running water so she basically has endless magic as long she don't use it up all at once and because of her vampirism she won't get tired so Lizzie could probably fight for a entire day without getting tired while Josie could only last for like a hour So yea I feel Lizzie wins in my opinion Dark Josie is also the same if we talking currently because she herself stated she doesn't have the power to attack someone on original level While Lizzie has statements that put her above aurora de Martel someone that is near the level of originals if not older than Klaus before she dies because she was like turn like a 3 or 2 years after Klaus was turn So after Klaus died she would be a vampire longer than him not saying she beats Klaus saying she is older than Klaus because after he died she most likely gain more years than 3 years on him maybe 4 whatever's just saying Lizzie could beat a og level vamp that dark Josie said she can't do nothing to those people

Too often on this sub is our boy slandered and put down. To me, he was an amazing character and just the person Hope needed.

My own favorite things about him is his ability to role with the punches no matter what came his way and his ability to understand others. Precisely the thing that earned him his job as the new Ferryman.

What is your favorite thing or moment from our resident spirit therapist?

Not sure who agrees, but in the unique chaos that is Legacies I feel there were at least 2 characters that got decent full story arcs.

Lizzie - watching her work through her insecurities and grappling with her mental health. I enjoyed that seasonally she would try different coping techniques. All leading to the final season and becoming a heretic. She was strong willed and able to combat the siring. Plus the flashbacks from childhood to the final her.

Jed - although his character slowly built up to a lead (presumably to replace the werewolf character after Raf "died"). We get his backstory and childhood traumas. We see him mature from childish Alpha to a respectful leader to one of the pack. The Ben twist was kind of unexpected but it didn't hinder his growth and maturity. His culmination in starting anew was kind of reminiscent of Tyler.

Any other characters you feel got a full character development through the show?

Why didn't Kai Parker break out of the chains after Hope chained him up?

I can get why Kai might not have been able to use his vampire strength to break the chains after all those chains are likely used to chain the werewolves up when they turn on the full moon. So the chains would need to be extremely sturdy.

I can get why Kai might not be able to to siphon the chains because they might not have any magic in them and likely didn't.

But what I can't get is why Kai didn't even attempt a spell to break himself free. He's a heretic so he only needs to siphon magic of himself to do spells. So why didn't he just use a spell to break himself out of the chains?

It made no sense.

Hey there people’s. I’ve seen some disagreement over which of our favorite Mikaelsons would win in an outright fight. I thought I’d throw my thoughts and theories into the pile.

To start off, a fully awakened Hope stomps Marcel out, there is no question of that. However, let’s look at Marcel vs Hope without Hope casting spells. Hope still wins as I do believe she is stronger than Marcel. I say this as Hope is a normal witch. What do I mean by this? I’m saying I think Hope’s witch magic feeds into vampirism and vice versa, just like it does with Hybrids. I say this because we know Vampirism will literally amp everything and put magic in you that grows. Hope already had massive amounts of power in her to begin with. Her vampirism would likely exponentially multiply that.

Marcel would certainly put up a fight, in fact I believe he’s strong enough and smart enough to make Hope try. However, all Hope’s sides feeding into each other would be too much even without Hope using spells. Adding to that, Hope is no slouch in strategy and combat experience, still Marcel could do some real damage if she’s cocky.

That’s my theory portion, now I want to discuss somethings we are shown and told in narrative.

Marcel’s poison; It’s effects on Hope are unknown, but death is not an option. At best she may be left like Elijah after a run through with Klaus venom. At worst it makes Hope high, or she might just Mikael the shit out of the venom. I say this because it is stated that red oak is the only thing that will kill her, not even god magic on its own can kill her.

Next is how we see the family confront Hope in the fourth season. They made her come via astral projection as they didn’t want to risk Hope’s get back, at least to my interpretation. This tells me they are aware that Marcel can’t beat Hope or at least aren’t willing to risk finding out. Freya could have lit one of those magic cancelling candles, but even with that option they didn’t use it. Maybe they knew they couldn’t win or wouldn’t risk it. At this time I also acknowledge that maybe they used this plan to get a gotcha moment on her considering how Vincent set up the spell.

Is it a joke? So werewolves like peanut butter milkshakes and dogs like peanut butter, is it just a coincidence or a joke?

I can't be the only one who feels like Rafael's ending was the worst he is trapped for eternity with his parent who did not even want him in the first place, I just think he deserved better honestly. Imagine living the same day over and over and he was literally forgotten and hope only visited him once, I believe he should be given the option to go to Lambo with Landon cause spending the rest of his life in that world is crazyyy.

Red Oak-The only thing that can kill her.

White Oak-Can't kill her but can temporarily put her into a desiccated state.

Marcel's venom-Can't kill her but should still effect her. How is unknown.

Desiccation

Wolfsbane

Vervain

**Dark Objects-**This would include objects like the trident and Papa Tunde's blade though I think Hope could overcome the effects of the blade both through using witchcraft and already welcoming pain through constantly transforming into a werewolf.

Magic-Would need an incredible amount to just harm her like God magic.

The Cure-This is not a true known as no one really knows how either the cure or Hope really works. So what would happen to Hope is anyone's guess. But it's still a possible weakness.

Any others that anyone thinks Hope might have?

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I know that Hope is a different species, but white oak can kill the Originals and also any vampire in existence. The only ones white oak doesn’t affect are upgraded vampires and Hope. But I think that red oak is stronger than white oak, so if it can kill Hope, it can also kill any Original and upgraded vampires. What do you think? Can red oak kill an Original?

I am currently half way through session 1 of Legacies. I only recently discovered that The Vampire Diaries and The Originals are in the same universe.

Would you guys suggest going back and watching those two after I finish season 1, or should I finish Legacies first?

Do you think Hope was too powerful to have been the main protagonist?

If yes who would you have liked to have seen as the protagonist of Legacies?

Am I the only one who feels like MG and Lizzy reminds me of Rebekah and Marcel, especially during the finale season when they finally confessed their feelings?

(Her hybrid Transformation)

In my understanding, vampires are alive, since every function in them works normally except aging and sexual reproduction. If anything, I would consider them more alive, if that's possible, since everything is heightened including their health and they are immortal.

About their fertility:

1. I don't think it's because they might be undead, because why would fertility be the only bodily function that is affected by that. The rest of their body works pretty much the same as being alive, even better because of their healing, so fertility should also theoretically be "healed" and work normally. I think it's something like a side effect or the "price to pay" for gaining immortality, which is to not be able to have children. I think it might be something like taking the lives of their own future descendants and adding it to their immortality or something like that (if that makes sense). For Klaus because of his werewolf side, he could have kids because the werewolf curse requires children in order for it to pass down.
2. Because as a species, vampires were created through blood transfusion, they can only procreate as such. While the human species procreates sexually. So the ability to create more vampires through vampire blood, is more of a way for the vampire species to reproduce. But in Klaus' case, since as a species, the Hybrid, he was both born (a werewolf) and turned through blood, he can procreate in both ways.

Undead means: "dead but reanimated" or by other definitions "in-between life and death". Vampires seem to be more like resurrected. I think that an undead would be something like a zombie or maybe a ghost. Vampires in transition might be considered undead, as it has been said that they are neither dead or alive, but somewhere in-between. But that has only been stated for those still in transition, not fully turned vampires.

Fully turned vampires, don't seem to fit into the definition of undead; there doesn't seem to be any reason to consider them that. The fact that they have died, doesn't necessarily make them undead, simply resurrected, like many other people in TVDU.

Tell me what you think.

hi first time watcher and this episode is a fever dream. I wish I was a fly on the wall in the legacies writers room while they were creating this cause this is just so unserious. Ok that’s all.

I know that it was probably due to budget/needing to give everyone something to do during the fight but it felt like she hardly used any magic in season 4 and after all that build up I wanted to see what a full tribrid was really capable of

I just started this show ik it’s quite old but it is my first watch. I’m at the part in s2 where Josie and Landon split him into two versions of himself. I’ve seen a lot of sentiment here of how Josie and Landon are really healthy and they communicate well etc etc but I just don’t see that at all. She meddled (that might be a bit dramatic) her way into his life when he was in a very vulnerable state, constantly killing himself, they form a connection that—as a friendship—I did find nice but it seemed she just needed another person to attach herself to since Lizzie was gone. The whole healthy communication angle I don’t get for a couple reasons. I mean she even ate sushi despite being allergic to seaweed and ik that was supposed to be a cute funny haha moment but it just proved her codependency problems and inability to speak up for herself. He even asks what’s wrong bc she was off the whole date and she insisted she was fine and tried to run to her dorm, even stating everything would be fine tm so there was no need to talk. I mean she gave that one girl a nosebleed. When hope came back (pre memory restoration) she danced around all her feelings, did not actually communicate anything and instead just acted out of jealousy etc. I mean even the whole “will I won’t I” of giving everyone’s memories back just to keep Landon. No part of that gave healthy communication. I don’t ship Landon with hope at all either so this isn’t biased, I actually don’t ship Landon with anyone I find him incredibly annoying 🤣

Is Inadu the strongest witch?

Freya and Vincent couldn’t seem to be able to do much despite being the strongest witches there, even when she was only a spirit

Hope was still young so would she be able to fight it once she was older and a full tribrid?

Would other witches like Esther, Dahlia, Bonnie and Qetsiyah be able to fight her?

Hopefully to make it more interesting I've split it into four different categories.

1. Who is the most innately powerful witch? (This means without any outside help like ancestors, channelling other elements etc. but just their own natural innate magic.)
2. Who is the most powerful siphoner witch?
3. Which witch has achieved the most insane and powerful feat?
4. Who is the most impressive witch? (Impressive doesn't have to mean powerful)

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So Emma...teacher of witches and caretaker/teacher of the young ones. Oh also the school therapist for a magical school dealing with vampire turning trauma and werewolf turning trauma. Also oddly overly sympathetic to Alyssa Chang but I guess that's fine.

Okay so now that I've established her roles in the school. Can someone explain how the school therapist bails without so much as getting a sub or interm in position? She just calls out Ric for being a weak human and then just bounces. She knows Dorian is gone and Ric is managing the school (presumably with a handful of other teachers), but she's the only known therapist.

I get having another teacher cover the kiddos classes and presumably there are other witch teachers, but the therapist part just really bothered me. How do you bail while the twins are reeling, Raf is spiraling, and Hope is being Hope? Does anyone think when she left was justified?

Or at least make things extremely difficult for them? I’m the TVDU we see that there are loopholes to everything, a multitude of backdoors that either exist or can be made.

Up till now, we’ve heard the gods aren’t affected by mortal magic, yet Malivore scared them. Malivore was the intersection of power from three factions, as we know. When things are mixed and become rare in the TVDU, they tend to be able to do a lot of wacky things. Case in point, doppelgänger blood creates an instant magic bug zapper that could have spread across the entire damn world. Bennet blood is powerful enough to help create a prison world.

That brings me to my own little theory, Hope, much like the big M, is an intersection between the three main factions. Her blood the counter to Malivore, whose creation with dark magic and the three factions’ blood. To add to that, Dark Magic has been known to break conventional rules and add special ingredients to the mix and you have something even the gods fear.

So if hope were to use her blood in conjunction with black magic, could she possibly make something that could kill the gods or did what Malivore did and weaken them?

Side note: Does anyone think the gods in Malivore died after he did? As we know they get weaker with less faith, could they be weakened so much that a dimension falling on them did them in?

Anyway, that’s my little theory, do with it as you want.

Can we all agree that Legacies Season 1 Episode 10 “There’s a World Where Your Dreams Came True” is the best episode of the season?

How powerful do you think a non original tribrid would be so a siponer witch who is also a werewolf and a vampire?

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I always thought you couldn't with Hope being the exception of course but am I wrong?

How do the werewolves have super strength in Legacies, but in TVD and TO they are normal people with great reflexes. Did they retcon how werewolves powers work

If Bonnie taught them magic they would have been more powerful than they are now they would have more experience more knowledge and the magical books they would have been developed themselves more for their magic skills Josie would have controlled her dark self and dark magic Lizzie wouldn’t have been afraid of using her magic to its full potential because she was scared of hurting people and if Alaric trained them how to fight they would be more confident in themselves

I have a theory that when we saw Dana's actress in TVD s4 as a cheerleader, that might have actually been her mom. She was the same age as Caroline and Elena. Later on she moved to Mystic Falls, so Dana's actress played both her and her mom as a teen.

So I know elemental control is a skill witches have. And I know the Salvatore school didn’t really teach offensive magic at first but I get so confused with some of the stuff Hope does.

Like obviously she’s extremely powerful, but is some of the stuff she does normal and we just don’t see other witches do it. Or is it her power? Like, for example the water spell, we don’t see any other witch use water that way. But we do see Davina cough up Earth in the Originals right before the Harvest and we see plenty of witches conjure fire.

Editing to say I just remember Dahlia manipulating vines/ flowers now

Recap So at the end of season 2, all the dark magic Josie ever practiced + the darkness she siphoned from Lizzie was banished to a prison world. The prison world became radioactive with the dark magic as seen in season 3. In season 4, Dark Josie was disempowered, only having the power of the dark objects and herbs Josie siphoned. I assume to use sleeping and immobilization spells on another witch, you need more power than the target witch. In season 2, Dark Josie successfully performed the sleeping spell on hope meaning she had more power. In season 4, regular Josie failed at using the sleeping spell on hope because Hope had more power like when a coven of witches failed this spell on harvest Davina…

My Point In season 4, Dark Josie should have opened the prison world and regained all her dark power before she went to stand up to Tribrid Hope. so an empowered Dark Josie would be strong enough to return Hope’s humanity. I think Hope would then be able to help Josie control all this dark power!

Finch and Ethan might have been killed by Hope since Josie regaining her dark power would make her miss the chance to save them, but Dark Josie probably could have resurrected them especially after restoring Hope’s humanity, Hope could help. I’m under the impression that the more dark magic you use, the more you will have so using the humanity spell on Hope would boost DJ’s power to bring Finch and Ethan back. Hosie for life period

that Lizzie still wanted to kill hope while she was turned into a vampire and she’s her sire so even if she could kill her she’d die too me personally Lizzie screwed her self over from the beginning.