Stop whatever you’re doing right now and callyour elected officials. Elon Musk is going after a member of Lutheran services that have been essential to the church’s mission.

I love this church despite its flaws. It’s an amazing collective of people who have had much more of a reach around the world and we’ve had every right to. We have fought malaria, we have settled the stranger, and we have provided relief to those in need because of natural disasters.

If you look around American Lutheranism you will often hear the term "confessional" Lutherans and the debate of "Quia" versus "Quatenus" subscription to the Book of Concord. For those unaware the Wikipedia paragraph describes it as:

In Confessional Lutheranism, a model of "quia" subscription is used. From the Latin for "because", the Book of Concord is adhered to because it is faithful to the Scriptures – the subscriber believes that there is no contradiction between the Book of Concord and the Scriptures. The alternative, "quatenus" (Latin for "insofar as") subscription means there might be a contradiction of the Scriptures in the Book of Concord, in which case the subscriber would hold to the Scriptures against the Book of Concord.

Among American Lutherans it is said that the ELCA, LCMC, and NALC all hold Quatenus subscription while the rest of the Synods/denoms hold to quia subscription. A common thing I have heard is that if you don't hold a Quia subscription, you don't really hold the book of concord authority and therefore can hardly call yourself Lutheran.

What i am struggling to understand is what does Quatenus mean to the ELCA? I know the ELCA rightfully disavows the antisemitism in Luther's works, unlike the LCMS and WELS the ELCA doesn't considers the pope/office of the pope the Antichrist (at least not in the sense that they have an official statement), and I assume the ELCA doesn't consider Turks (muslims) the largest enemy of Christ.

To make things easier I think these are my biggest questions:

1. Is "Quia" versus "Quatenus" subscription a modern thing and mostly started by Americans?

• the Wikipedia pages say it came about in the 1990s from the international Lutheran council. When I read about the Church of Sweden it says they only hold scripture and the Augsburg confession as binding the rest of the BoC is just additional reading. Would that make them "Quatenus" in the eyes of confessional Lutherans? I know many confessional Lutherans get mad at the thought of Women pastors (Which Sweden has women priests and bishops even)

2. Elevating the BoC to the level scripture seems to repeat the same mistake Luther called the Catholics out on. Which is to say elevating Man's word to the level of holy scripture. Does this seem close to Luther’s view of idolatry? Making creation(BoC) on the level of God?

• As i mentioned before a Quatenus subscripton says: There might be a contradiction of the Scriptures in the Book of Concord, in which case the subscriber would hold to the Scriptures against the Book of Concord. To me this seems like the view Luther and Melanchthon would want modern Lutherans to hold. Scripture is the only infallible source that's the whole Sola scriptura. Claiming the BoC doesn't contradict scripture seems to be giving it a level of authority that cannot ever be questioned, even if you find something in the scriptures that may contradict it.

3. How does one defend/explain Quatenus?

• This might be more for pastors or those that went to seminary. I feel like "Quatenus" is used to delegitimize "non-confessional" Lutherans even though the ELCA statement of beliefs says they teach and affirm the book of concord. Does the ELCA even use the term Quatenus?

4. Does the ELCA have any Book of Concord writings or teachings to help understand Quatenus subscription?

Thank you and God bless.

edit: for some reason it changes all my numbers to 1. so please forgive that weird formatting.

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Hi! I'm fairly new to the faith, I joined an ELCA church in October and was baptized in December (a little backwards, I know, but as an adult convert, I suppose it might happen that way sometimes 🤣) Anywho! I've become a total nerd about bible study in general, getting moderate to more progressive commentaries and study bibles..but I'm hoping to find a book on Lutheran Theology that is more in line with ELCA. Does anyone have any suggestions for books on Lutheran Theology.? Thanks! 😃

Five months ago I posted here that I was thinking of going to church, but I didn't want to get involved with church. Many of you were very kind and encouraging.

I am happy to say that yesterday, after being an unchurched person for six years, I became a member of my local ELCA church! And six other people also joined!

Lutherans have an incredible message to share with people like me who are hungry to hear. We long to hear it and to see it in action for real. Did you know that we right now have complete forgiveness for all our sins? Did you know we are beloved and holy saints and at the same time sinners who murder with our words and thoughts? Did you know God desires justice, not the recitation of right words? Did you know some things don't really matter!? Of course you do! Now I do too! And it is changing my life.

Thank you to everyone who God sent to be part of my journey. Sorry for being so gushy.😂

I'm just curious what kinds of conversations folks may have heard around whether or not churches should stay in X and Meta Social Media?

Participation means visibility, but it also means X and Meta are making money off of the church activities without doing their utmost to protect people from hate speech.

So I'm just curious about rationales, perspectives, and decisions that people are hearing about out there.

Thanks

Can an ordained leader of the church join the a fraternal order such as the Masons? I can’t find anything with a google search, but I’m preparing to attend seminary and a question was raised amongst friends if it was allowed. Any resources I can refer to?

One of the terrible convictions bubbling in me is that we need to be singing the Divine Office as a community more. I'm wondering if anyone has a midweek matins service that they do, and if so, what time? I figure it has to be early because people go to work; although, I'm sure it would be sparsely attended no matter what time.

Since the samarians were baptized by Philip, surely they received the Holy Spirit. Why then did Peter and John pray that they might receive the Holy Spirit? Did Philip not baptized them right? Did they only get the Spirit but the the Spirits "power". I'm so confused. Perhaps I don't understand baptism after all.

A member of WELS recently told me that ELCA believes that forgiveness through Jesus Christ isn’t the only way for salvation. Is this true or just an accusation? I’ve read a bit of some of the ecumenical statements the ELCA put out, and I couldn’t see any evidence of his accusation having weight but I wanted to ask to get more clarification

How many of your ELCA congregations have day-of Epiphany services today? Our congregation does not, as we aren't really staffed to do many weekday services throughout the year. I wish we could, however. I would love to see the major festivals of the Church rise in prominence again, if only because I love opportunities to hear the gospel and share the bread and cup.

Related question: I've been a Lutheran for about two and a half years, and I especially appreciate liturgical worship combined with Protestant theology. I know that in the ELCA, we don't have quite the same distinction between high church and low church like the Anglican communion does. But how would you describe a church that is very liturgical but in a very modest, simple, non-showy way? I want smells and liturgical colors and adherence to the church calendar and ancient order of the communion service focused on Word and Meal. But at the same time I don't want a lot of gold and silver, lots of expensive decorations, or fancier vestments than a simple robe and stole.

Does anyone have scholarly research, debates, or back and forth discussions that they can provide me with around this issue. When I have looked at this topic, It seems almost always the non female clergy affirming side, and the arguments aren’t very scholastic. I do not have a position on this issue yet, and would like to explore this more before I take either stance.

I just learned that the UCC is in fellowship with the UU. Do you think we would ever come into fellowship with the UU? It seems far off. Though I would have thought we'd have fellowship with Church of England and apparently we do not (though we have fellowship with Episcopalians)

My husband and I just attended our first service at a local ELCA church.

I’m so impressed. Everyone was so welcoming, and the service wasn’t all doom and gloom. At the same time, it felt biblically inspired and more than just vague themes.

I didn’t grow up Lutheran, so we weren’t quite sure of all of the steps of the service but everyone seemed to help along when necessary.

We are planning to go back, but I am wondering what do we do next? How do we learn more about what it means to be a member of this particular type of church?

Thank you in advance!

Hello, all! Sorry if this post gets a bit wordy, I hope you’ll hear me out.

So, I was not raised religious. Religion was kind of a “no no” in my house growing up. I’ve ever even stepped foot in a place of worship. Because of all this, I’ve developed a strange relationship with religion. To be very honest I’ve always had a sense of FOMO.

Well I’ve been going through a lot this past year and the last few weeks something has just kinda “clicked” inside me and for some reason I feel like faith is calling me.

I’ve avoided exploring any of these feelings about religion for so long because I am a transgender woman, but that’s what led me to the ELCA! There’s a RIC ELCA church very close to my house I’ve been very tempted to visit but I’m still quite nervous. I feel like a complete newbie and the only things I know about Jesus and stuff is from like TV and movies.

I’ve been debating emailing the pastor at the church I’m interested in, but I guess I’m kinda embarrassed how in the dark I am. Should I just pick up a bible? I’ve read some things on the ELCA website but could anyone point me in the direction of some easy beginner reading?

If you read all this, thank you :)

I'm SOOOO blessed to be able to play as part of the worship team and I'm SOOOOO frustrated that every newer song is either hillsong-y or Nashville style music. EG today's "oh what a glorious night."

I know this discussion always makes the rounds but I REALLY wish there was a good source of something new, different, and even theologically aligned.

My Mom (77) is the organist at their small church and she and my Dad (84) are having some health issues and she really wants to stop being the organist every Sunday. There is a 91 year old that used to play and someone that pitches in but she attends part time but she also runs the Youth program. They’ve advertised but not found anyone, even in a paid position. How do electronic devices work that could play hymns and liturgy over the speakers. Mom thinks it would be expensive but I think there has to be a way. Any options?

For context I saw there was a similar post about this around a year ago, but I wanted to expand on it to see whether or not my view on it is in align with the ELCA, as I’m still a little confused. My belief of this is that the Bible is inerrant and infallible, but in the sense that 1.) not everything is Literal, such as in the creation stories. 2.) there can be spelling errors and grammatical mistakes, but the overall message of what the Bible teaches is infallible, since these spelling mistakes don’t change the doctrinal understanding. Is this something consistent with the ELCA beliefs, and are there a range of different opinions on this issue, or is it pretty standard that all ELCA pastors hold to the same view?

I am someone who is pretty strongly convinced that homosexuality is a sin, and was wondering if there is any theological or historical proofs for the belief that it isn’t a sin. Most of the explanations I see for it not being a sin tends to come from personal opinion, and if there was a genuine argument that it wouldn’t be a sin from a theological standpoint, that would be helpful in understanding the opposite side for me.

Hi all,

I am an Episcopalian, but for over a year, I have been attending an ELCA church in a suburb of LA.

This is because TEC and ELCA are in communion with each other, this ELCA church is pretty close, and the local Episcopalian church doesn’t even have a priest. Also I grew to like the minister and congregation.

As my life enters a transitional stage, I feel called to the ministry. I studied religious studies during college and did a religious service corps year during the pandemic (just saying this to say this is something I have thought about for a while and am not doing on purely a whim).

But I am not a member of an Episcopal parish, I am a member of a ELCA church, but am not a Lutheran.

So what steps do I do?

Thank you

I am a Lutheran, and I am planning on becoming a pastor. For context, I have grown up in a ELCA church, but it seems much more theologically conservative than the stereotypical ELCA church. The church I grew up in banned affirming gay marriage, and I agree with that stance. It is hard for me to accept some of the beliefs of the ELCA, such as seeing homosexuality as not a sin, when it seems so clear cut to me the Bible and early church agree with the stance that it is a sin. I am deciding which sub denomination I want to pastor in, and I was wondering if there is any reason why I should pastor in the ELCA in comparison to WELS or LCMS.

Hello. I'm new here.

I've been experiencing such a deep sense of religious burnout. I've recently heard the message that we are saved by God's grace and, somehow, I'm trying to believe in it. At the same time, however, from almost every religious source, the grace comes with a "switch" to it. As if God has died on the cross to give me grace in order to be a good person - and, most of the times, I feel as if I can't reach the parameter of the "good person". Most of it has to do with the fact I'm gay and in a relationship. I keep wondering... even if the more conservative christians are right and the practice of my sexuality is sinful, isn't it true that nonetheless the grace of God saves me? Especially since my homosexuality is something I can't "give up"? Well, I think I might be just about to lose my faith. I recently heard something along these lines: "Grace saves you, regardless of you good works, but at the same time it makes you want to be a better person and helps you to follow the commandments". Oh well, I feel that the grace of God has not changed me much.

Why does the ELCA have so little material on what the official ELCA beliefs are related to Jesus' return/the second coming/ the Parousia? It's kind of all over the place in the New testament, and weird that the ELCA doesn't really have much if anything to say about it. I can find vague references in blogs and online posts/articles where ELCA folks unofficially say that to them the second coming is basically about Jesus' presence with us in the present... but it's pretty hard to find.

It frustrates me because, in the last 8 years, there've been so many Christians exiting Evangelical Christianity seeking to find church homes... and they bring with them the baggage of a heavy focus on this essential piece of their faith. Can't the ELCA speak to this at all?

Am I missing something? I've googled it a lot for multiple projects and basically have had to tell people "yeah, no, the ELCA doesn't say anything about this officially." Except the occasional "Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again" recited in unison with zero context/explanation.