This is for those who are having social, occupational and/or health issues while following their delayed natural cycle. If you're following your natural cycle and have no issues as a result for it, congratulations, I'm glad you found something that works and you can ignore this post.

I have seen people saying on this sub multiple times that following our natural cycles is best for EVERYONE. But really, where does it come from? There is 0 research showing that this approach to DSPD leads to better outcomes.

Sure, you can find a job with flexible hours, and a wife that raises your kids for you, but really, if you're sleeping 7am to 3pm, you will likely end up having to give up many of your dreams, needs, and desires in life. E.g. social interaction, having a family, career goals and aspirations, good education, etc. Being forced to give up these things can negative impact your mental health or long-term financial and personal success in life.

I am NOT saying that following your natural rhythm is gonna be bad for everyone. If following your natural rhythm works for you, fantastic! I'm glad you've found something that lets you live the life you want. For the vast majority of us though, that is simply infeasible.

The number of social and occupational difficulties I had while following my natural rhythm made me more and more depressed. I was told on this sub, that I can't fix my sleep and my only option is to give up on my dreams and desires in life and follow my natural rhythm. Being told that was also very depressing.

Thankfully I did not blindly believe what I was told here. I saw a sleep medicine specialist and ended up finding a series of things that helped me adjust my sleep cycle such that I'm able to do the things I want in life while having manageable sleep. I'm still occasionally sleep deprived. Overall though, life is significantly better.

I was able to get to this place by working with a sleep medicine specialist with ~30 yrs of experience treating sleep disorders. He did not once say that the best treatment for DSPD is to follow your natural rhythm. You know why? Because there is no actual scientific evidence that people with DSPD who follow their natural rhythm do better in terms of health and other outcomes, than those who try to entrain their cycle.

So if you're depressed, isolated, or on the verge of losing your job because your delayed cycle is causing social and occupational difficulties, please please please see a sleep medicine specialist. This sub can be great for support, but the internet is riddled with misinformation and anecdotal suggestions grounded in ZERO scientific evidence. I found the VLiDACMel protocol widely shared here helpful, but even that is NOT grounded in scientific evidence (kudos for the author for sharing what worked for them though). Folks, what I'm saying is there is always hope. Search high and low until you find a compassionate and qualified medical professional who can help you. Be skeptical of anything you read or are told online.

TLDR:

1. There is NO evidence that following our natural cycles is best for our health. There is no evidence that it's worse for our health either. You need to figure out what works for you, and that may be different depending on the stage of life you're in.
2. If following your natural schedule is not an option or is negatively impacting someone's health, they should see a sleep medicine specialist who can help them entrain their cycle instead of believing a bunch of strangers on the Internet and believing that they cannot entrain their cycle or that entraining is gonna be worse for their health.

I will sleep between 0 to 3 h a day at complete random hours, regardless of my tiredness, for multiple days on end.

It's miserable, does anyone else experience this? Is there a name for it? And how to stop it while stuck in it? I just call it random episode of severe insomnia but I think it's related to my dspd.

Worse part is that no doctor seems to care about this aspect of my sleep issues, they only focus on dpsd :/

The odd push for antipsychotics as a magic cure for DSPD has gotten out of hand on this subreddit.

I think everyone is here because we are looking for moral support, advice, and to share our real life experiences.

I can’t begin to imagine how much work goes into to moderating a sub of this size. Please forgive me for not sharing my appreciation sooner for creating such a meaningful place for us all to connect.

Lately, I’ve seen a growing push for the erroneous belief that antipsychotics are the primary, and perhaps only, effective treatment for DSPD.

Obviously, when a single possible treatment with dubious success is suddenly catapulted to the status of a proven cure, something has gone very wrong in our little community.

What can we do as a community to support everyone’s right to search for treatment and to share their experiences while preventing newcomers from getting the completely false message that antipsychotics are a proven cure instead of a medication with dangerous side effects and very little proven efficacy in treating DSPD?

Frequently I see many including medical professionals claim that being a night owl causes a host of issues, ranging from diabetes, heart disease, depression etc do you feel as if there is any validity to these claims? are these issues caused by an unhealthy lifestyle rather than the time someone sleeps? I feel as if allot of these claims are sensationalized, or misrepresented, would love to hear your opinions on the subject as fellow night owls.

I have a great doctor who would absolutely sign off on anything I need. I am coming up on a year at my company (in about a month) but I am not sure I qualify for FMLA. The company is very small so we might not have it as there are less than 50 employees. I may be in a line of work where it is required for the company to offer it though, so there is a chance we do have it, but our handbook says nothing about FMLA or any leaves at all. It is my understanding that any other leaves would be harder to get (like short term disability), and wouldn't be protected like FMLA. Plus, FMLA can be used intermittently which I very much need. I'm basically trying to make up the difference in the morning hours without being penalized. I'm not sure this is possible, and I'm not sure how to find out what options I have at work. Is going to HR risky?

I am trying to understand if abilify is unique in how it acts on the circadian rhythm, or if it is a matter of increasing dopamine. I sometimes see wellbutrin or ADHD meds thrown out there. I do have ADHD but my doctor is hesitant to put me on a stimulant with my anxiety as severe as it is. I am not clear if adhd meds would help DSPD though

I work at 8 am currently. I use a luminette in the mornings, blue light blocking glasses at night, 300 mcg melatonin which makes me super depressed, and with that I can sleep about 6 hours or so only if I'm not experiencing high stress (and I'm often experiencing high stress so my sleep gets pushed back later again during times of stress). I work hard to be able to sleep these hours because it's so unnatural for my body. But I do love my job. Besides the hours, I just absolutely adore my job. I am not in a field with any flexibility. And I have been at this job for just under a year. It is the first time in my life that I have made a living wage (which was challenging due to a combination of physical health, mental health, and sleep issues). I'm not really trying to give that up. I finally made it, I finally love what I do and can afford life. It has been a hard year being sleep deprived, but the last 2 months I've been in a more acute pstd flare up of sorts so my sleep has gotten much more difficult. I'm on the brink of ghosting my job. I don't know what to do from here.

It looks like my options are-try a medication that works on dopamine-adhd meds or abilify? Does this really work? Take some sort of leave but I don't know if my work offers FMLA-we are quite small-and it's not awesome that I haven't been here even a year yet, I don't believe I qualify for a leave. And/or eventually I may need to work towards a 2nd shift sort of job. I don't know anything 2nd shift that I am suited for. Hotels are cool but hotel front desk wouldn't be a living wage. I think healthcare is interesting but I am not really suited for hands on patient care. I do like working with people, I'm just not a hands on type. I could do some sort of hospital admin job if they have later hours but I'm not sure that really pays either. Polysomnography is interesting but I am worried the field is shrinking due to technology, and 2nd shift is much healthier for me than overnights. I am willing to go back to school for something. At the end of the day, it would kill me to quit my job. I love it, but I am not surviving. I want to be healthy and rested.

Not gonna lie, too much googling led me to trying, didn't try xyrem because couldn't find it, but I found stuff that's essentially the same so now I'm bit of an expert of how it's supposed to work. Note, if you are someone who get easily addicted to alcohol, maybe stop trying.

So you probably already googled how xyrem works, was curious, but here's thing that not many mention. When you are woken up from xyrem or other ghb types of sleep, you are really, really woken up. Besides, your sleep is really strong. Definitely no dreams

I spent several months sleeping 2 to 6 hours per day. Was I tired? As hell. Was i sleepy? Not at all. Could I drive a car? I shouldn't, but I was more able than if I was just never starting the abuse and had very early alarm clock.

I am still in recovery, I sleep 5-7hours instead of 10h that I need but... At least more hours in a day is some kind of upside :)

I saw a sleep specialist a decade ago who told me to force myself to be in bed at the same time every night (1am because I worked evenings at the time) and do light therapy, and to get up at the same time every morning (9am) regardless of how much I slept. I felt awful the first few weeks but after two months I was fine. I have since returned to an abnormal sleep schedule and am trying to fix it again. Hope this helps someone.

I was diagnosed with DSPD as a teenager. I'm in my mid 30s now. It got a little better over time, but never went away. My DSPD wasn't too bad -- generally, I'd prefer to go to bed at about 2am and wake up around 9am. I took jobs that allowed me to work late or odd hours, worked with sleep coaches, and drank a lot of caffeine.

But then, suddenly, about 3 months ago, my DSPD just sort of went away. To the point where my wife, who has known me for over a decade, finds it alarming. Last night I went to bed at 9pm for example, and woke up at 4:30am. This has been my sleep schedule (plus or minus an hour) for the last 3 months.

Two things changed around this time: The first is that I started using Tirzepatide. I haven't seen anything about tirzepatide affecting sleep, but maybe it does in some people? The second is I was infected with COVID for the fifth time. I've had long COVID for over 3 years now -- every time I get infected, I get weird symptoms that last for months (loss of smell, heart palpitations, dizziness, muscle twitches, etc). So, I wonder if this is another long COVID symptom - though if it is, it's actually kind of nice.

Just wanted to share here in case someone else has a similar experience.

No matter wht i do i always sleep at 5-6 am. i have so much work to do, but here i am waking up at 2pm Can somebody help me . Is there any medicine for this? Do i have adhd and wht is dspd?

I’ve been really trying to get my sleep time earlier but lately it’s been impossible. I’ve been consistently not been able to get to sleep until 8 am. Now with day lights saving time, that just means that it’s going to get light outside even earlier. I hate this. When the sun comes up that dread hits me. I want to be able to get to sleep when it’s still dark out. There’s something very icky and depressing when the sun comes up and now you have to do everything to block the sun out. Blackout curtains I have, blue blocking glasses help, etc. I can’t believe my sleep time has gotten this bad. I’d even be happy to just get to sleep by 6 am at this point. Fucking dreading this, and now I’m going to get less time of sunlight in my evening. It’s bullshit. I would rather have more day and evening light than morning light. Day light savings is only for early morning risers

I've been struggling with sleep since i was 16, i'm 26 now. I'd always stay up late playing games but i don't remember really struggling with sleep until i was 18 where one night i had a panic attack after not being able to sleep for couple hours. That was the trigger for me, for the following years i have developed this new rhythm of sleep where i would go to sleep at 4-5 am and it stuck with me for years. Even though i sometimes try to reset my sleep schedule it always ends up in those ranges and lately it's been pushing those hours and sometimes has been around 7-8 am if i'm not careful and manually deprive myself from sleep for some days to get it earlier but honestly i think i always need more than 8 hours of sleep and when i get less than that i'm pretty much dysfunctional all day. No one around me really understands how bad i feel when i don't get enough sleep in my terms (7 hours is more than enough for some people).

But the good thing is i built my life around this problem, i live in Turkey and i'm working for a company in US. Now i am wondering if i actually have DSPD or since i've somehow built my life around this problem, i just can't stick with a schedule because essentially i never need to get up at a certain hour for more than a month. There was this one time where i had to wake up at 11am for couple months for a job though, i remember being sleepy all day long at times because i would try to get back to my 4-5 am schedule at weekends and that would mess up everything. Wonder if that was because i have DSPD.

I just wanted to get your ideas on this because none of the doctors i have seen had enough experience in circadian rhythm disorders.

I am pursuing a degree in polysomnography and it is a pretty small field. The pay is pretty good (close to $30 an hour to start) with room to grow.

And, of course, it is all night shift work. I am enjoying it quite a bit so far and it’s been really easy to learn the material after dealing with DSPD for so many years.

The program at my community college is only 16 months long so it is pretty quick to become registered and you can work anywhere in the United States, especially with so many hospitals having sleep labs. Just something to consider!

I currently work 7a-7p 3x a week and get up around 5:20. I typically force myself go to sleep around 12:30/1 am but on days that I don't have work the next day I usually stay up until 2-3 am and get up around 12-1 pm. Doing a 12 hour shift off of ~4 hrs of sleep isn't super fun lol but I don't know how switching to nights will affect me. I am bipolar 2 but am on a bunch of medications so I haven't noticed any big changes in mood when I stay up. A lot of the night shift nurses have been telling me to switch over because I always look exhausted at shift change lol. Any RNs out there that switched and felt it was for the better?

View Poll

My whole life I've had difficulty waking up. When I was in middle school, I got bussed to a school out of zone that was 30 minutes away, so that made my schedule even worse (long bus routes meant that I was getting on the bus at 5 in the morning and not getting home until 5 PM). I learned very young how to walk silently in my house so I could do things at night without waking up my light-sleeper parents. I was always the last one to go to sleep and the hardest to wake up.
When I got to my junior year of high school and learned how to drive, I would doze off at the wheel in the morning. It's kind of a miracle I never rear ended anyone, but I refused to keep getting bussed since I could drive.
I spent my first semester of college living in the dorms, and my sleep was so ruined that I regularly slept through 10 AM classes and doctor's appointments, and moved back in with my parents for the rest of college so they could help me get up in the morning. When I would drive to campus, sometimes I would be so exhausted by the time that I parked that I would curl up in my back seat and lie down.
Throughout all of this, I should mention that I was (and still am) taking stimulants for ADHD in the mornings, and as soon as they would kick in I would be unable to sleep until they wore off. That didn't make the exhaustion go away, so all of my mid-day "naps" consist of me lying down in darkness, fully conscious and aware, just turning my brain off. (For comparison- when I'm actually asleep, I'm very difficult to wake. Once slept through my entire family trying to get me up as they piled into my bathroom for a tornado warning. When I'm "napping", you can say my name and I'm there. I also dream quite vividly when I sleep, but never when I nap.)
Graduated from college, got an amazing, incredible job, and moved out with some roommates. Did well for a while, but started slipping, showing up barely on time or a few minutes late quite frequently. I got a formal warning for this. I started looking into Jornay PM to help with waking up, and stumbled upon this sub.
It's terrible, to be told that you're lazy, or have poor sleep hygiene, and you don't have the discipline or the willpower to fix your sleep, when you try so many different things that just don't help. Melatonin, reducing or cutting out blue light, sunrise alarms, vibrating alarms, cutting out caffeine, cutting out sugar, weighted blankets, optimized sleep cycle wake up times... People say that you just have to make yourself get up, that everyone wants to go back to sleep in the morning, that if I just go to sleep earlier then I would wake up easier (cut to me lying in bed from 9 PM to midnight until I finally fall asleep). That it's unhealthy for me to sleep until 2 PM on weekends or during breaks, that I'm only doing that because I'm making up lost time from staying up so late, despite the fact that if left to my own devices for weeks at a time, my body wants to fall asleep at 2-4 AM and sleep until 12-2 PM.
I did a bunch of reading on DSPD, and many things track with my own experiences. The only thing that doesn't 100% match up is that I don't always feel consistently tired throughout the entire day, but I suspect that's because I'm on stimulants for my ADHD all the time.
I guess I'm just saying that I'm so glad I found this place- the embarrassment and shame I've felt my whole life, especially as an adult, being unable to wake up with the rest of the world is crushing. The fear I have of losing my dream job is so real and so potent, and I was (and still sort of am) considering forcing myself to stay up until 4 every morning, then waking up at 7 or 8, since I find that the less time I sleep, the more alert and awake I am when I get up. I also have an appointment with my psych tomorrow to talk to him about DSPD.
My whole life I've been trying to fix "bad sleep hygiene", and no wonder it hasn't worked, because I don't have bad sleep hygiene, my body just doesn't work the way society wants it to.

View Poll

One thing that makes it very hard for me to have this disorder, is I feel AWFUL when I don’t sleep 7-8 hours. My eyes feel dry, my head feels heavy, my heart has palpitations, I struggle to breathe, my digestion is poor, and I have anxiety attacks and start to feel depressed as ever about my sleep disorder.

Luckily I got a job where most of my shifts don’t start until 4 or 5 pm, but every once in a while I have to do mid shift which starts at 11 or 12. Im usually still sleeping then. It’s only like 1-2 times a month, but it’s still so, so hard for me to sacrifice even 1 day of a good night’s sleep. I basically lose my mind over it.

My anxiety over not sleeping 8 hours has ironically made it even harder for me to sleep when I have to be up earlier than normal the next day. I should be able to just do my best to sleep as early as I can manage, and try to get at least 6 hours of sleep. But I have to heavily medicate to even get 5-6 hours of sleep because my brain won’t shut off the anxiety.

I wish I didn’t feel so bad on little sleep. I’m planning my schedule around not being able to be up early, but if I really need to be up early at times, compromising is so so hard for me.

Do they emit any UV?

This is for Ayo Light Therapy Glasses. Is getting the app with the glasses worth the extra dollars? What benefits are in the app? What is your experience with this…?

I’m pet sitting for a friend and her apartment is huge. Her blinds are not blackout blinds and there’s an insane amount of sunlight that comes into the apartment. Every room is filled with sunlight. I have my dark orange blue light blockers but once the sun comes up, I’m fucked. It’s after 9am and I am still awake, in bed trying to sleep. I was exhausted earlier so much so that I took a short cat nap from 2-3 am. Then I got hit with my huge wave of energy. I hate this so much. I took a bunch of Benadryl and melatonin and herbs / supplements to get me sleepy, but I’m just feeling doomed. Just needed to rant. I don’t necessarily have anything I need to wake up early or at a certain time to do but now my sleep time has been extended even later and I am actively trying to get it EARLIER but I am failing miserably.

Warning *rant coming * I’m usually a pretty optimistic night owl when I’m able to sleep on my schedule , but today I’m down in the dumps. Could be the melatonin adding to my depression as well but anyways , I’m so tired of the constant struggle of finding decent paying work that pays well and works with my late hours. It’s like society is literally saying “fuck you night owls “by allowing night owls to work such jobs with low pay. I have a BS degree in arts but it’s been useless . I’ve worked at restaurants and warehouses mostly and they didn’t pan out . My number one goal is to be a business owner but you need time / money to invest into that which I really don’t have . Have you guys accepted a life of being broke or are some of you working towards overcoming this horrible disorder and being financially free and successful ?

I was diagnosed with DSPD in 2018 at the age of 19, but I been struggling with it since I was 14 or 15 years old, a psychiatrist gave me trazadone for sleep when I was 15, & worked for the most part, then I turned 18 & moved out of my parents house, the medication stopped working.

I have been pulling all nighters for almost 10 years (which basically means being up all night until the evening) in order to reset my sleep schedule, there has been several times where it did reset my sleep schedule for a while & other times, the next night is back to the same old pattern.

I've tried many different sleep meds, besides Trazadone, I've taken Seroquel, Ambien, Zzzquil, Bendrayl, Melantonin, & Saphris, & now I'm on 20mg Xprexa, my psychatric PA increased it from 10mg to 20mg to help me fall asleep faster, but now I'm noticing a lot of more side effects (such as brain fog, hard time concentrating, etc)

This past year, I got engaged to my fiancee (after being together for several months prior to that) & got a job (which is usually from 8:45 am to 12:45pm), I also have weekly appointments that I have to attend to (like therapy, behavioral Analyst, etc), & those appointments are usually in the afternoon.

I wish I could fall asleep between 9 to 11pm & wake up in the morning, I know I would accomplish more if I were up during the day, I got this job through the Regional Center (a social services agency in California for people with Developmental disabilities), after applying for 20 different jobs, & my appointments are usually mid-late afternoon, there really isn't any options after 5pm, & remember that I live in a small city in NW California that operates on a 9-5 schedule, it's literally like a ghost town around 1am around here, this is not NYC or Vegas.

My sleep doctor suggested that I take melantonin & use light therapy when I wake up, & he suggested waking up at 10am for a while, then waking up at 8am, using the bright light at the same time every morning, but he said it could take up to 8 weeks to take effect in treating this, the problem is that I'm a very deep sleeper, & I tend to oversleep most of the time (even sleeping past loud alarms), I literally need a shower, then a energy drink, then my first cigarette in order to wake myself up from extreme sleep interia, I feel like I'm dying everytime I wake up.

I don't know what do to here, I'm not sure if the RC has any job programs at night, & even if that were the case, I would need to still wake up no past noon for my weekly appointments.

Only my sleep doctor fully understands this condition, my psychatric PA or my therapist don't understand, neither does anyone else, they talk so much out of their asses about this (like I'm too lazy, I don't care, or whatever), my uncle said "because I drink too many monsters" & my stepfather-in law even made a joke about it.

I had to take this week off work because of the massive brain fog I been experiencing, I missed most of my appointments this week, now it's 7am, & I'm wondering what should I do here?

I've struggled my entire life with my schedule. So much so my family would joke the "vampire has arisen" when I was seen awake during the day as a child, as I was always awake evening/ night. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and prescribed Abilify. It has changed my life. I now wake up at 7 AM, even before my alarm. I'm refreshed, and can get to bed around 10pm. I still need short naps sometimes during the day; Overall this has been a lifesaver.

I know there's been a discussion about it being used for DSPD - but I'm so grateful it's helped.

I’ve only ever worked nights. but I made the c decision to try dayshift for a couple of weeks. Everyone keeps telling me to not do it and how much I will hate it and having to deal with family. I just mostly keep a nighshift schedule on my days off so I am not accomplishing much because I live in a small town where everything closes early. I usually sleep from 6am on my days off until 4 or 5 pm. I just have stopped exercising and eating well and doing things on my day off since being on nightshift. I am just wondering if people regret moving to dayshift.

I noticed that there is only one Big DSPD thread and it has less than 20k membres with much less active one's and I'm wondering why ? If u tell me it's bcz it's not as widespread as other disorders then check BPD, both are as much widespread with 1 % and u'le find it has two threads one with 300k and other with 100k, sadly symptoms of DSPD are harder from my personal exp having both of them . THIS way I don't see any efforts would be put in this disorder by researchers as the need IS not even validated for them . Whereas More research needs to bé done on a disorder that was only discovered in 1981 . Moreover The orexin system was only identified in 1998,[1] yet it appears intimately implicated in human sleep-wake systems.( Wikipedia)

Is there more traffic on other Forums and social media than reddit?

How could we increase it ?

Thank you awesome people and whether u believe that one day this disoder will have solid meds (melatonine and light are not for most) or not giving science a shot has never been a bad Idea .

PS : regarding the 1% relevance I Saw figures ranging from .13 to 8,9 depending on the criterias and area so 1 % seems to bé thé bare minimum rather than average