I am interested in reading it, but I can't find it online and I don't feel like buying it rn.

The Book of Judith:

"These people are descended from the Chaldeans. 7 In the past they lived as strangers in Mesopotamia because they weren’t willing to follow the gods of their ancestors in the land of Chaldea. 8 They broke with the customs of their parents and worshipped the God of heaven, the God whom they knew. So their ancestors sent them away from the presence of their gods, and they fled to Mesopotamia, where they lived as strangers for a long time. 9 Then their God commanded them to leave there and go to the land of Canaan. They settled there and became very rich in gold, silver, and cattle. 10 But when a famine spread through the land of Canaan, they went down to live as strangers in Egypt, where there was food. While they were there, their numbers increased so that they couldn’t be counted. 11 Then the king of Egypt turned against them and took advantage of them, enslaving them and forcing them to make bricks. 12 They cried out to their God, and he sent incurable plagues upon the entire land of Egypt, so that the Egyptians drove them out of their sight. 13 God dried up the Red Sea[a] before the Israelites, 14 and led them by way of Sinai and Kadesh-barnea. They drove out all of the inhabitants of the desert. 15 They lived in the land of the Amorites and destroyed all the Heshbonites with their strength. Once they had crossed the Jordan, they took possession of all the highlands. 16 They drove out the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Shechemites, and all the Gergesites, and they lived there for a long time."

The Book was surely written by someone that was Judean and very pro Judea so the fact that they say the Judeans are descended from the Chaldeans, is that not a big deal? 😅 The origin doesn't begin with Egypt and Moses, and no mention of Abraham, but the Judeans/ Israelites abandoned the Gods of their fathers and went away to form their own society and worship another God. Or are we supposed to believe that in the story from the Book of Judith the person telling the information about Israel/ Judea's origin is getting it partially wrong?

I find remarkable little info online about this considering it seems to tell a narrative of the Judeans history that goes beyond simply Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Egypt, Moses etc... It seems a more historical description.

ca 1994, a couple of Jewish colleagues told me they had just learned the Dead Sea Scrolls prove the disciples stole Jesus’ body while the guards were sleeping, and I got all excited and showed them Matthew 28:11-15, but they were obviously not impressed.

Cut to, I was retelling this story to another colleague recently, and he gave me a side eye, and I realized just how fantastic my story sounds, but here’s the deal:

My buddies weren’t the most sophisticated theologians ever (I had to explain to them why they were taking off for the Feast of Purim), so I don’t see them playing a prank on me, and if they had been, they would have brought it up later. It was a different time, and being considerate of your friend’s feelings did not carry much value. We were all brutal to each other - and we liked it!

I’ve been trying to prove the account either is or is not in the text of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It doesn’t put any theological dispute to rest, but it certainly is fascinating that a specific detail that was alluded to in one text is then repeated in another text from an opposing viewpoint. That feels like something historians should be excited about, right? So far, I’ve gone down as many Dead Sea Scrolls wormholes as Google can offer me, but there’s just not as much out there as I would like.

Who might have an idea where I can begin my search? Who Do You Know Who might know a lot about the Dead Sea Scrolls?

I didn't think that there was more to learn from or discover at Masada: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/roman-siege-masada-timeline-0021376

News broke today:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/extremely-rare-beautiful-first-temple-era-genie-seal-discovered-in-jerusalem/

This upcoming "fest" (just seems like a conference too me) may be of interest to folks here:

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/travel-study/27th-annual-fall-bible-and-archaeology-fest/

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/the-tel-dan-inscription-the-first-historical-evidence-of-the-king-david-bible-story/

Few modern Biblical archaeology discoveries have caused as much excitement as the Tel Dan inscription—writing on a ninth-century B.C. stone slab (or stela) that furnished the first historical evidence of King David from the Bible.

The Tel Dan inscription, or “House of David” inscription, was discovered in 1993 at the site of Tel Dan in northern Israel in an excavation directed by Israeli archaeologist Avraham Biran.

The broken and fragmentary inscription commemorates the victory of an Aramean king over his two southern neighbors: the “king of Israel” and the “king of the House of David.” In the carefully incised text written in neat Aramaic characters, the Aramean king boasts that he, under the divine guidance of the god Hadad, vanquished several thousand Israelite and Judahite horsemen and charioteers before personally dispatching both of his royal opponents. Unfortunately, the recovered fragments of the “House of David” inscription do not preserve the names of the specific kings involved in this brutal encounter, but most scholars believe the stela recounts a campaign of Hazael of Damascus in which he defeated both Jehoram of Israel and Ahaziah of Judah.

The Armstrong Institute of Biblical Archaeology puts out a free bi-monthly magazine.

https://armstronginstitute.org/magazine

I subscribed to the magazine Biblical Archeological Review a few years ago, and love it. With the subscription, you get quarterly magazines (4x a year) and access to their online library. I'll post interesting tidbits here and there.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/magazines/

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Hey,

I just uploaded a webinar going over some of the claims for this conspiracy and debunking it.

Would love some feedback

This year Easter arrived early (at least for catholics) so it't that time of the year when church sermon refer to Moses and the Exodus. Most of this complelling tale happens in Egypt, and even stripping it of any supernatural act and every miracle, it is still a big deal for Egyptians. They faced vermin, natural disorders, even a plague and the defeat of their army, the emigration of a significative portion of the population. Knowing the Egyptian habit of turning almost everything into pharahonic propaganda, it is odd they didn't mention the Exodus in any way, not even to minimize it. It was written in Babylon, and several centuries after the events of Moses. There are Mesopotamic influences, there was a political goal to support, and everything points towards the hypotesis that Exodus is actually a made up story. But there is also the fascinating theory that the legend of Exodus re-imagined a true, but very different story: the rise and fall of the Hyksos. I've read of this somewhere but I don't remember the details: can anyone help me to go deeper on this topic?

Biblical minimalism, a prominent approach within biblical archaeology, asserts that the Hebrew Bible is largely non-historical until proven otherwise. Advocates, such as Thomas L. Thompson and Philip R. Davies, argue the texts were primarily theological, written in the late first millennium BCE. They insist archaeological evidence must unequivocally support the biblical narrative before any correlation is made, often favoring interpretations that either directly contradict or minimize alignment with the Bible.

Critics of minimalism highlight a discrepancy between its professed adherence to the scientific method and its application. This approach is often seen as selectively skeptical, where evidence supporting the biblical account is undervalued or dismissed in favor of interpretations that challenge traditional understandings, even when such interpretations lack substantial empirical support. For instance, minimalist theories regarding the chronology and development of ancient Israelite kingdoms—specifically, the suggestion that the northern kingdom of Israel predates and culturally influenced the kingdom of Judah—have been contested by archaeological discoveries.

One significant challenge to minimalist chronology is the site of Khirbet Qeiyafa, dated to the early 10th century BCE. This site reveals an advanced, urbanized society within the Judahite highlands, contradicting the minimalist view of Judah as a late-developing, culturally derivative polity. The urban planning and inscriptions found at Khirbet Qeiyafa suggest an established kingdom with literacy and administrative capabilities far earlier than minimalists propose.

The minimalist tendency to propose alternative historical theories without solid archaeological backing, or that require significant leaps of interpretation, has been criticized for lacking objectivity. This is exemplified in the creative but unsubstantiated theory of Israel's precedence over Judah, which disregards the archaeological evidence of Judah's early urbanization and cultural distinctiveness.

Given these criticisms, the term "minimalism" may be somewhat misleading. A term that encapsulates the approach's selective skepticism and predisposition towards contradiction over convergence with biblical accounts might be more apt. "Selective Skepticism" or "Contrarian Archaeology" better reflects this methodology's essence: an interpretive bias favoring theories that diverge from the biblical narrative, often requiring inventive explanations that stretch beyond the available evidence.

In sum, while skepticism is a valuable and necessary part of historical and archaeological inquiry, the application of this skepticism must be balanced and consistent. The critique of biblical minimalism underscores the need for an open, evidence-based dialogue in archaeology, one that embraces all plausible interpretations without undue bias. As archaeological methods and discoveries evolve, so too should our interpretative frameworks, ensuring they are informed by a comprehensive examination of evidence rather than a predetermined stance against historical biblical narratives.

Hello all,

Just joined as retirement provides the luxury to immerse myself in a pet itch: comparative Chinese/Judeo-Christian canon formation from ca. 1200 BCE-400 CE.

I'm hoping someone can recommend a respected and reasonably current historical/hermeneutic guide to both the Hebrew and Christian bibles. My old U of Oregon Religious Studies class assigned Understanding the Bible: A Reader's Introduction (Harris, 1985) as its basic textbook. I still have it, and it is great for basics, but if there's a more current replacement, better still.

Harris in a Preface footnote recommends Humphreys' Crisis and Story for the O.T. and Connick's The New Testament as "more comprehensive critical-historical" supplements, and I just downloaded them, but archaeology and philology being what they are, again, if you have any more current suggestions I'm all ears.

Ancient Chinese and ancient Judeo-Christian history unfold in strikingly similar and concurrent ways from the bronze age forward--particularly in the centuries-long production of disparate texts that are in the 4th and 3d c.s BCE compiled into official canons (Confucian and Biblical). So I want to trace those two civilizations "from acorn to oak" comparatively to enjoy the sweep of the formation of the two most dominant civilizations on earth today.

Anyhoo--any recs greatly appreciated.

Thank you all :)

Hey guys, I have read many archeological historical stuff about ancient Israrlites, Philistines and Canaanites (Phoenicians) including how did they live and wear. I have also read the Torah and been to Israel and Palestine and spent many days in both parts. Interestingly, I found Palestinian society more similar to ancient Judah and Israel than the Israeli society today. Of course, Jewish Israelis are supposed to follow the Torah but their religious clothing nowadays are basically fashion of Orthodox Ashkenazis mainly lived in Eastern Europe and fashion of clothing changed in that direction while Palestinian rurals were more simikar in their clothing to ancient Israelites and more similar in terms of the way they look and even their views (towards polygamy for example) were closer to ancient Israelites than Israelis themselves to ancient Hebrews. More interestingly, modern Israelis were more simikar to ancient Sidonians (Phoenicians) and Philistines than Israelites and Judeans.

The books of Ezekiel and Jeremiah describe a Babylonian invasion of Egypt led by Nebuchadnezzar. This would have occurred in the first half of the sixth century BCE.

What archaeological evidence is there for this attack? I am aware of the inscription dated to the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar which describes an Egyptian campaign, as well as the corresponding Amasis Stele in Egypt. But I am wondering particularly about actual destruction layers or occupation gaps in Egypt.