Let's look back at some memorable moments and interesting insights from last year.

Your top 1 posts:

• "Happy Cakeday, r/whywolves! Today you're 9" by u/AutoModerator

Let's look back at some memorable moments and interesting insights from last year.

Your top 1 posts:

• "Happy Cakeday, r/whywolves! Today you're 8" by u/AutoModerator

Let's look back at some memorable moments and interesting insights from last year.

Your top 1 posts:

• "Stakes as a meditation on healing old patterns and taking control of one's destiny" by u/BlackNinjas

Just found this subreddit which is weird because this kind of stuff is huge for me, but I see it's not super active. So I thought I'd post this bit I wrote and posted on the AT subreddit. I think it fits here, but apologies if it's not.

So yeah I recently watched Stakes for the third time and it's just funny how much more I liked and appreciated it this time through. I always thought Islands was the best, followed by Elements and Stakes. But now I'm not so sure. Islands is still my favorite, but I feel like Stakes may be the best standalone piece. Like you could show it to someone who had never seen AT or knew very little about it and I still feel like they could get a lot out of it. I'm not sure if you could say the same for Islands (I think so), but definitely not Elements.

Anyways, this time around I really appreciated and connected to the general theme of the miniseries, but I also really noticed just how funny the whole thing is. There are a ton of spectacular moments and hilarious lines. and I actually found myself laughing out loud. I posted it today, but that scene where Jake is describing the vampires to Peppermint Butler while he sketches them out is comedy gold and also the scenes where Pep Butt is fanboying out at the vampire king and screaming internally. I like the season 1 callback where Jake confronts Marceline and says 'You think I'm gonna believe that boom-boom Mountain?!' The Ice King not actually being under The Empress' spell is classic and great. There are more laugh out loud moments that I'm forgetting because it's been a couple weeks, but there were some other moments I liked that weren't overly serious. Specifically the use of Finn's long hair to do a play on gender stereotypes by having him be the 'damsel in distress' when they are fighting The Hierophant. And you get a nice Bubbline moment when Marceline says that PB was nice and pink in her dream, and then PB blushes and says 'You think I'm nice?'

I also deeply felt the scene where Marceline imagines visiting Simon and Betty for dinner. It was so tragic to feel that at the end of the day, all Marceline truly wants is love from parental figures. And that her dream is to be able to visit the only person who showed her sacrificial, unconditional love. It just really hit me hard this time around and I felt deeply for her and all of the other Adventure Time characters who do not experience unconditional love from their parental figures. AT truly is a tragi-comedy in many ways, and its seamless and masterful blend of comedy and tragedy is a huge part of what makes it so good in my eyes.

Anyways. I'm still conceptualizing and feeling out the emotional-mental themes of the series, but there's obviously a lot about growth, acceptance and patterns. 'Everything Stays' certainly sums up a large part of Marceline's arc and what the series is trying to say, but I think there's something that's generally overlooked (at least to me) about fear of the unknown and falling into patterns. Marceline choosing to become human again is basically her accepting death and jumping into the void, the unknown, leaning into a place where she has no control. She basically jumps in on a whim (by removing her vampiric essence), but then immediately jumps on the opportunity to gain her powers back and slay the vampires, and repeat a comfortable pattern. Obviously she needs to slay the vampires because they are a threat, but the unhealthiness of this pattern is revealed by the Vampire King and her relationship to him (which we will get into later). But Marceline basically has the opportunity to truly face herself and accept the chaotic nature of reality, but appears to run from it at the first opportunity. It's like she has spent the last 1,000 years on land and then decides to jump in the water, but then immediately tries to get out of the water, even if the water is where she may truly face herself and heal.

This is reiterated by the Vampire King when he asks Marceline what she has learned these thousand years, and she responds by saying that everything repeats itself, that nobody learns anything because no one lives long enough to see the pattern. And he asks if she still thinks that fighting is the right way and she says, to me, the most important thing of the series. That the other way is like an unknown, a black hole. Breaking free of the pattern is too scary for her because she doesn't know what to expect and because she has no control. Marceline has always put on this facade of the care-free, immortal vampire girl who just coasts through life having a good time. But the truth is she's an unhealthy, traumatized teenager trapped in an immortal body and she has never truly been able to grow up. She has never been able to break free of her patterns and has basically been stuck in a loop her entire 'life' since becoming a vampire. Breaking free of the unconscious, usually unhealthy patterns we were taught we deserved as children is an instance in life where we have the opportunity to heal and step into the unknown, to feel like the ideas and narratives we have clung to for structure and control are gone. That we must lean into the unknown, chaotic nature of reality and really look at it what's actually there, not what we were taught is there. Marceline struggles immensely with this, demonstrated by the fact that she seemingly cannot stop fighting the Vampire King. And then we get this wonderful moment

Vampire King: I'm not afraid of the unknown! I have the power to change destiny! Queen of vampires! You weigh the scales of fate. Spill my guts, or face the unknown. Either way, I will not bite. For turning you would subjugate me to the wheel of fortune. And I am a king, not a hamster. My path runs straight into the void, on a sick, flaming chariot! Stake me. I will not hide. Do it, chicken! You make me sick!

That bit about the wheel of fortune is great, because he's saying that acting out the old ways, the old patterns would be a completely unconscious choice that would ostensibly make him a slave. Breaking free of our unhealthy emotional patterns is one of many ultimate acts of healing we can embody, but it is something that is very hard to do. We are taught these patterns of structure and control by the forces that raised us, and so our child selves build narratives and ideas about what is right and wrong around those things. But most people and caregivers are unhealthy, and so we can be taught that we deserve some really fucked up things. It's why many childhood victims of abuse find relationships where they can be abused in ways similar to how their parents abused them: it's a pattern that is familiar and it's what they sadly think they deserve. Bare in mind this is not conscious, these are unconscious choices. They do not consciously want to be abused, but unconsciously are drawn to it because it's all they know. I am generalizing a lot about a complicated topic right here and using a specific example, but what I'm trying to say (and how I'll bring it back to AT) is that we are all subjugated to the wheel of fortune. We have all been Marceline: acting out the old ways, even if they are unhealthy, because the new way is an unknown, a black hole that we are too scared to face. But we can all be the vampire king: display our power in a primal way, splash around in the waters of the unknown and face what is there. Break free of the wheel and take control of our destiny. No longer give in to 'fate' and take responsibility for our own choices.

I'm adding this part later, but I feel I ignored the last episode of Stakes and basically created a hierarchy where the Vampire King is symbolic of healthiness and plunging into the unknown whereas Marceline is the opposite, and that's not really true. It sort of is within the confines of Stakes Part 7, but not necessarily within Stakes as a whole. There's something interesting going on about how you can let go of these unhealthy patterns and heal through them, but that they will always be a part of you. And that makes sense because we can't change the past and who we have been, and the echo of those patterns exist in all of the choices we have made up until the point we choose to no longer be a slave to the wheel. So it appears that the Vampire King is able to let go of these patterns and exist without his vampiric essence, and maybe that's just random chance or perhaps because he actively made the choice to break free of the wheel. Marceline does not seem destined to fully break free of the wheel. The circumstances she was given do not lend for that. They do for the VK, but not for her as she is ostensibly forced to become a vampire again to stop his vampiric essence from rampaging across Ooo. I think there's something here about chance and choice: how chance prevented Marceline from fully breaking free, but her choices allowed her to heal, grow and change, even just slightly. That sometimes, the chaotic nature of reality does not line up in a way that benefits us most. And maybe that's all we can expect: in this lifetime, we may not fully break free of samsara and karma, and maybe circumstance and our traumas do not allow for us to fully heal and become the most healthy version of ourselves, but we can find a bit of peace and love for ourselves. We can accept our choices and who we were when we made them, have compassion for ourselves, accept the circumstances life gave us, take some alone time and write a beautiful song.

This is what I connected to so deeply this time around and I think it is absolutely wonderful. There is more to analyze in Stakes, but this is what I got from it this time around and I am incredibly grateful.

Something to discuss while waiting on season 7. I noticed a bit of a running theme within the Marceline episodes of either Finn watching her from a distance (not sure if I should be referring to it as voyeurism, because it isn't really played as a sexual thing) or vice versa. Obviously there's "Marceline's Closet", but "Memory of a Memory", "I Remember You" and her section of "Astral Plane" are all stories viewed at a distance by Finn, unbeknownst to Marcy. Why is this a trend? What does it have to say about Finn's relationship with her? Maybe it has to do with the maturity gap, or Marceline's girl-next-door archetype. What do y'all think?

No seriously guys.. wake up!

So I've seen a LOT of posts about this and thought it might be a good idea to compose some of the ideas. Something I'd like to point out though is that none of this is confirmed in any way and mainly written from memory, so just point out mistakes politely. Additionally, more Season 4 episodes occur out of continuity than any other season. Intriguing, huh?

Evicted --> (Rainy Day Daydream?) --> King Worm

• REASONS FOR:

• At the end of the episode Evicted, Finn and Jake are mind controlled by the King Worm and awaken in an identical pose in the conclusion of King Worm.

• Rainy Day Daydream LITERALLY HAS DREAM IN THE NAME.

• REASONS AGAINST

• Flame Princess is in the dream even though Finn at this point wouldn't know that she existed, unless Incendium exists earlier in the timeline.

Davey --> It Came From The Nightosphere

• REASONS FOR

• After Finn broke Jake out of jail, Jake got in Finn's pocket and could've potentially stayed there. Possibly..?

• REASONS AGAINST

• The writers might've, just might've used the same gag twice.

No One Can Hear You --> BMO Noire --> Princess Potluck --> Incendium

• REASONS FOR

• The 15 months, 4 days, and 9 hours NEPTR says he was hiding in 'Incendium' most likely came from the time Finn and Jake spent comatose and crazy respectively during 'No One Can Hear You'.

• BMO finds NEPTR hidden in the loot room of the treehouse when he falls down the ladder.

• Princess Potluck runs parallel to BMO Noire.

• REASONS AGAINST

• It seems pretty solid...

All The Little People --> The Diary

• REASONS FOR

• Jake says he'll go to Lady's for a while; in 'The Diary' he is at Lady's house.

• Finn isn't shown, in keeping with the events of 'All The Little People'.

• REASONS AGAINST

• TV is a part of the story. Unless All the Little People is after Jake the Dad then this should be impossible.

Too Young --> Goliad

• REASONS FOR

• In Goliad, Princess Bubblegum says, and I quote; "After my recent brush with death at the hands of the Lich." I highly doubt that two seasons ago qualifies as recent.

• Princess Bubblegum had just almost had her kingdom taken by the Earl of Lemongrab. It makes sense she would want a backup leader, and/or replacement in the event she is too old to serve the Candy Kingdom or dies.

• REASONS AGAINST

• We don't ever see Goliad afterward.

Heat Signature --> Video Makers

• REASONS FOR
• Marceline has not seen Heat Signature in the episode 'Heat Signature' but seems to know the series in 'Video Makers'
• REASONS AGAINST
• Find 'em and report 'em

Mystery Train --> Go With Me

• REASONS FOR
• In Mystery Train, Lollipop Girl is shown to like Ice Cream Guy and in Go With Me they are dating.
• REASONS AGAINST
• None, really.

Hit Man --> Fionna and Cake

• REASONS FOR
• In the episode Hitman, Ice King freezes Finn and Jake in ice, where they remain in the episode Fionna and Cake as Ice King tells his story.
• REASONS AGAINST
• Again, seems pretty solid.

Look guys I can't think of any more right now but if you can think of more then I'll be happy to add them!

New episode, is awesome, has a pretty solid theme of stagnation, which is explained pretty well here

But I think we can also take this episode as some insight into Finn and Jake as characters, based on the differences between their parallel adventures. At the beginning, returning from some crazy fight or whatever, Jake says he can't wait to get home and sleep, and is cut off by Finn rattling off all the things he has to get done when they get home. "great minds." (clearly don't think much alike.)

That kinda sets up the comparison in the episode. Both enter realms of endless monotony and being slaves to routine and whatnot. But Finn has a completely different adventure than Jake, and they each work well as reinforcements of their established characters. Finn gets bored, gets mad, makes a crazy plan, and fights stuff. He ain't about the appeal of waiting for that hourly clock. Finn has to have adventures, he's gotta fight stuff. I still don't really know what "in toil we krimber" means (mostly because krimber isn't a word) but Finn kinda does get off on action, so maybe it has something to do with that.

Jake on the other hand, spends his time making a friend, playing cards, and rapping. Jake making a friend is like, his thing. Remember Princess Cookie? He's much more willing to go "this is my life now" and enjoy the moment. Accept the walnuts and the rain. The playing cards and candles go well with the chill, hobo-ey feel Jake often has. (It reminded me of Blue Nose a lot actually.) At the end of the adventure, Jake thinks Huge-dude is Finn's new friend, the way 7 is Jake's.

I don't really know where I'm going with this, as usual. Just thought it was neat. What do the rest of you have to say? discus DISCUSS!

Hello there, I am currently working as a moderator for the subreddit /r/AdventureTheory. Now, I hate to shamelessly plug here, but I can't help but notice that this subreddit's last post is five months old. I hate for something like this to happen to such an awesome subreddit, but, in my condolences, I would like to invite the viewers of this subreddit to /r/AdventureTheory for something to read, at least until your subreddit gets back on its feet again.

-ATtheorytime

The entirety of "Joshua and Margaret Adventures" is a story, apparently relayed by Jake, that his parents never told him. The story ends with "And they never told me" with Finn behaving like there was no story, clearly confused. Now, Pendleton Ward made a choice to do it this way, rather than having any other way to frame an episode from Jake's birth.

So, did Jake actually tell the story? Was the timeline changed as he was telling it? What is going on here?

While Adventure Time is set in a universe where magic is prevalent, there is evidence that magical objects existed before the Great Mushroom War. The Ice Crown and Enchiridion, two central magical objects in the show, are two examples of this, although nothing in the show explains their origin. I believe that these two objects have been sent back in time with a similar portal to the one seen in 'Betty'.

Why? Let us suppose that, as in 'Finn the Human', the mushroom bomb had no effect on people frozen in ice, even at ground zero- if Simon Petrikov had frozen someone or something then that could have caused the re-explosion of life 1000 years post-bomb. This would not be possible without the crown, so I believe that once Betty cures the Ice King he will send the Crown and Enchiridion back in time so that Simon can prevent the extinction of all life.

I thought this is mostly because of the ridiculous number of princesses in Ooo. It is almost impossible to find a girl who is not a princess.

Another possibility is that, Finn's social circle consists of princesses due to his close relationship with PB, and also his regular job of rescuing princesses from Ice King.

Still, I find it weird that when Jake was searching for a new love interest for Finn, he began looking for a princess of appropriate age.

Authors on this subreddit have discussed how adult themes are dealt with creatively in Adventure Time, everything from Finn's daddy issues to PB's politics. Given the show already suggests these types of issues, I felt it isn't improbable that the Ice King's crown could be understood as a metaphor for alcoholism.

Simon Petrikov puts on the crown for the first time as a joke for his fiance, Betty, when he removes the crown he can't remember what he has said or done. Betty has been so hurt by what he said while wearing it she breaks off their engagement and leaves him. There is an obvious parallel between Simon's amnesia and the effects of alcohol on memory (hence "blackout drunk"), but more subtly, he shares his last name with a brand of Russian vodka, Petrikov. While watching over Marceline, the story of Simon's change into the Ice King intensifies. He tries not to wear the crown, but he feels he needs it to have the courage and power to protect her. After several situations where he felt circumstances justified his repeated use of the crown's magic, he succumbs to it's powers, and can no longer remove it. In medical terms, he has become dependent and is unable to function without the crown.

As we know the Ice King in the present of Ooo, he is marked with the tell-tale signs of long-term alcoholism: lacking decent hygiene(his underwear), delayed reaction in hand to hand combat, quick to anger and extremely defensive, suffering from constant hallucinations, a rollercoaster of obsessive and manic depressive episodes, narcissism and delusions of grandeur, memory loss, escapism(his imagination zone), and a willingness to go to any lengths to be respected and beloved. He constantly is seeking to regain the type of relationship he had with Betty(his princess), but fails to see that the reason he lost her was due to his behavior while wearing the crown. Only during brief moments of clarity can he recognize that the closest thing he has to a friend is his pet penguin, Gunter.

When it is revealed to Finn and Jake that he was once a human who was turned insane from the crown's power, they change their tune from battle cries to exasperated sighs. They stop seeing him as their arch-rival, but rather as the sad, lonely wizard that was once Simon Petrikov.

It contains Pathetic Fallacy That actually comes about for a logical reason. It's cloudy and overcast for the sad breakup scene, but that's because of all the steam from Flame Princess and Ice King's fight. I don't think I've ever really seen justification for pathetic fallacy before, so it's pretty cool.

Alright, I'm not one to write articles, but I had a thought and I want to stimulate some conversation here.

So Adventure Time takes a lot of inspiration from video games, and games like DnD. That's something the creators state, and its referenced a lot in the show. So is the whole alignment slider thing. There's the whole question of FP being 'evil' or not, and loads other examples. But while the characters in the show don't exactly make this realization, those black and white-ish morals are completely absent from AT. Every character, at this point, has depth, motives and weakness. Do you think this is a deliberate deconstruction? Any good examples? What else does Adventure Time borrow from or criticize about classic fantasy?

I think this episode, in addition to being significant for other reasons, confirms that the new, more urban candy kingdom depicted in "root beer guy" is a real development, and not just a stylistic choice for that one episode. This episode shows off a few back alleys and shady places, and Johny is a entrepreneur. More disdain towards PB from the general public as well, and it's clearly taking its toll (I would love to see a PB-Alcoholism Allusion Episode). Any other thoughts about this episode's role in the grand scheme of things? Let's keep whywolves alive, friends.

In /r/adventuretheory, I stumbled upon this question: "Wouldn't the world be an OCEAN if the whole world was frozen in ICE?" This refers to the events of the alternate reality (Farmworld) which was created when Finn wished to Prismo for the Lich's nonexistence.

Instead of actually answering the question, my mind strayed and began to wonder about how the Ice Crown (can we call it the Ice Crown? I'm calling it the Ice Crown.) works in a more scientific approach than just "MAGIC!".

And hence I changed my gender, and my species, to become Princess Bubblegum for fifteen minutes and came up with this:

We don't yet know what exactly the ice magic does, in a more scientific manner.

Does it make ice appear, as in new matter is formed and introduced into the universe?

Does it follow E=MC^2, so that the crown is a storage of an immense amount of energy that can be manifested as mater (Hydrogen and Oxygen) at the wearer's will? Or does it perhaps bend existing energy to its will?

Does it just manipulate existing particles into ice? If so, does it strictly use H2O molecules? Is it even more meticulous, being able to manipulate protons, neutrons, electrons, and other particles to form the structure of Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms?

Whatever it is, however, COLD is not a form of energy. THERMAL/HEAT is. Where does all that thermal energy go when particles in the atmosphere is cooled to freezing temperature?

It seems unlikely that new particles are added, as the world would indeed most likely be an oceanic planet. Therefore, the crown seems to give the wearer powers over matter and/or energy, manipulating them in such a way that ice can form and be controlled.

It is also improbable that the crown of ice uses already existing energy to form matter, as the energy levels required to form such immense structures as the ones the Ice King is shown to manipulate would be incredulous.

Furthermore, the crown can't simply introduce new matter into the world by converting an energy storage into matter, as it would be just the same as introducing new particles into the earth's atmosphere.

Using the existing H2O molecules in the atmosphere to control water vapour and lower their energy level so that ice could form would be difficult to believe, as H2O levels in the atmosphere probably aren't that high.

So there it is, guys. The crown (probably) lets its master/slave control the fundamental particles of atoms to split and combine into Hydrogen and Oxygen particles. This would mean that the humidity of Farmworld is simply Globdarn ridiculous.

Almost every antagonist in Adventure Time has a fairly complex motive behind their actions or some type of personality flaw like greed or narcissism. The lack of evil for the sake of evil and perfect heros is a staple of the series. So why does the Lich simply want to end all life on Ooo? Ending all life is fairly blunt unless there is an ulterior motive or background that will be explained later. (I would assume the Lich will find his way back sooner or later or be reincarnated through another war in the future.)

Am I missing something, does the Lich have any reason to want rapture?

I think the episode is about acceptance and how people accept things. Denial (CB), bargaining(IK), anger(LGs), depression(Fox), and then back to acceptance(F+J). I think that they do it in this order to show that you need to accept things for what they are (why Jake gives CB the light / why Jake JR types "Its OK" on Beemo [which is how she comes to terms with her contemplation at the beginning of the episode]). Just my two cents!

So this episode shows the candy kingdom in a much more advanced and civilized state than I think it ever has before. There are planes, trains, cars, and it generally just looks more like a regular city. What are we to make of this? Is this episode further in the future, has something important given them such a boost, or have they just never decided to show it like this before? lets talk about it, whywolves.

Not 100% where to post it so i posted here

this episode is borthing me, don't get me wrong I like it a lot but there is just one line that that PB said, here the quote "were on a mission to collect samples only, I want to start colonizing this area by the end of the year," why would Princess bubble gum need more land. wouldn't she have enough land already why not just build more walls outside her land, please if someone can think of a reason why she would want this area tell me, Its driving me nuts.

Hey guys, this is my first post in whywolves, so please share your thoughts/constructive criticism! Also, let me know if this kind of stuff belongs in /r/adventuretheory

Main Message/Theme

Jake stated “To live life, you need problems. If you get everything you want the minute you want it, what’s the point of living?” This shows up several times in this episode.

1. Finn sometimes invents his own set of problems – in this case, Box Prince. He does have 'real' problems to deal with, but if he’s tired of them (i.e. his love life) or there’s nothing to do, he imagines his own adventure. This seems to be very similar to 'Puhoy', except there wasn't a problem explicitly stated and solved in 'Box Prince'.

WAIT A SECOND. If he sometimes imagines his adventures, how many of ALL of his adventures are real? This gets into ‘coma theory’ territory, which I will happily avoid :)

2. Adults sometimes ignore ‘good advice’ from children, and sometimes set bad examples BMO represents a child’s point of view on the issue of Jake's powers and the thing stuck in his teeth. Jake’s message about needing problems in life isn't wrong, but he is a bit hypocritical (BMO recalls these moments, and is put off by the hypocrisy)

Other moments:

BMO: “I told you to buy floss”.

Jake: “Floss is for losers”.

Later on:

BMO: “You put cards in your mouth?”

Continuity

After “Dungeon Train”, Finn’s imagination and child-like wonder seem to have returned. There weren't many frivolous/imaginative adventures between "Earth and Water" and "Dungeon Train"

What about “Time Sandwich”? Not heavily focused on Finn. He also didn’t seem as cheerful. Though he did think about how Jake would feel if he took a part of the sandwich, so he's got that going for him

I don't know where “The Vault” falls into all of this.

Other Stuff

Where do they buy things? Also raised in "Marceline's Closet"

Tongue-in-cheek message: Fanboys, stop bitching. You’re not going to get what you want when you want it.

BMO: “This is unsatisfying”

Jake: “Zip it!”

Significance of boxes: what you show vs what you are? We’re all the same underneath? People judge by appearances too much?

Finn: "Rain messed you up. They’re not looking underneath the surface"

Finn seems to travel through some physical barrier when he visits other worlds/makes up his adventures. In Puhoy, a portal deep in the pillow fort; here, some thick brush...’visiting other worlds’

There seems to be a water motif as well. Episode began with a storm passing…Jake used powers to get glass of water…Rinsed mouth with water (most important part according to Jake)…Spray bottle calmed cats… All this shows the cleansing power of water? Does this signal that he's over Flame Princess?

It has been explicitly pointed out in the show that the Fire Kingdom is Elizabethan Shakespeare writ large, as noted by Flame Princess ("Everyone is all deceitful and Shakespeare."). Also, the episodes involving the Fire Kingdom are often closely tied to various Shakespeare plots.

• "Incendium" and "Hot to the Touch" are references to Romeo & Juliet - Finn/Romeo is heartbroken over his unrequited love of Bubblegum/Rosaline (further reinforced by the fact that Finn is clutching a rose while pining over PB). His friend, Jake/Mercutio wants to him find a new love interest. That love interest turns out to be from an opposing faction, the Evil Fire Kingdom/Capulet Family. This fact is unbeknownst to the two lovers, who become enamored at first sight. However, their natures are destined to keep other apart, and in the end the two are unable to be together.

• "Ignition Point" continued the trend with multiple direct references to Hamlet, albeit a bit backwards. The current king killed the old king, and his nephew(s) want revenge. They plan to pour poison into the king's ear. A plan is hatched to alter a play being performed to the king to establish guilt.

• "Earth & Water" shifts the trend from Elizabethan to Greek tragedies, specifically Oedipus Rex. Upon hearing the word that his child will depose him, the king sends away his child to die in the wilderness. However, the deed is not done right, and the child is instead left with a local peasant. Adventure Time breaks the direct references here: FP is returned to the king, who then imprisons his daughter to prevent her rise to power. However, the thread is resumed when many years later, FP decides to stage a coup d'états specifically because her father had her imprisoned. This backfiring effort to return power is a clear nod towards the attempts to fight fate in Oedipus Rex.

• Because the Flame Princess is currently residing within the Fire Kingdom, one can assume the next episode involving FP will also involve a classical play. I am currently in favor of a form of Julius Caesar, where Flame Princess is deposed by some "weak and vicious fire people," which I thought was perhaps a reference to Caesar's line from Act I, "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous."

Thoughts?

Hello? Whywolves? Where'd everybody go? I feel like there is much more speculation to be done. I discovered that I was a Whywolf last week, yet there was no one here for me to discuss anything with. C'mon, guys and gals. Get it together and get back on this sub.

I am amazed none of the whywolves are discussing Shoko!!!

Or the bath gang\destiny gang?!

WTF Whywolves?

TL;DR NEPTR has seperated parents. Marceline has a rich dad. Finn is an orphan. Lemongrab's parent is too successful for him to compete. Pup Gang has the poverty blues. Magi had an unsupportive dad.

Adventure Time seems obsessed with daddy issues. But it seems to match with the idea that alignment is largely dependent on where you came from, and has little to do with whether a person chooses to be good or evil, which I see consistantly in the series.

Here is a probably-incomplete list of characters with daddy issues.

Marceline Our favorite vampire has had a rough life. She was apparently abandoned as a toddler. And then her second father went crazy trying to protect her. Upon reuniting with her father, he betrays her by taking her stuff. There are some who think the entire fry thing could be a representation of physical abuse, but I prefer to ignore that. Anyway, Marceline's problem is summarized in her songs about her dad. In particular:

Do you even love me? Well, I wouldn't know it, cause you never show it.

and

I'm not just your little girl. I want your respect.

Her dad is the classic rich dad who never has time for his kid. He even has the business suit. He never is home to see her, and when he is, he barely seems to know her and does everything wrong. Of course, Marceline is already angry at him, so she will overreact to everything he does.

This has nothing to do with the topic, but the funny thing for us is that Abadeer really does do ridiculously evil things. Where most girls complain about their dad liking jazz and dancing in public, Marceline complains about the fact that her dad is sucking the souls out of everyone on the continent. Oops.

NEPTR The physics-defying robot was in the middle of a nasty divorce, so to speak. He was forced to choose between his two parents, Finn and Ice King. He chooses against Ice King, because he does some terrible things, but he doesn't lose his loyalty. NEPTR didn't escape the conflict unscathed. He feels neglected by both parents. He was forgotten by Finn and found again in "Hot to the Touch" while Finn was trying to stop Flame Princess from destroying the Goblins. Finn doesn't have time to play hide and seek, he needs help chasing after his girlfriend. Single parent who cares more about dating than his kid? So he ropes NEPTR into his schemes. The robot attempts to become one with Finn by integrating himself into the fireproof suit. And the NEPTR tries to help with the fire, but Finn keeps trying to stop him from hurting FP. He can't win. Fast forward to this season. Ice King captures him to get through the Mystery Dungeon. Ice King can't remember him, which passes for neglect in this case. Then Ice King continues to deny that NEPTR is his son, even wishing that he had BMO instead. He only shows appreciation, like Finn, when he needs NEPTR, in this case to get him through the encrypted gate. And NEPTR puts up with it, because he wants to be loved. He even supports the Ice King's sick little fantasies, because Ice King seems to love them more than he loves his son.

Finn The hero actually turned out alright. He was abandoned as a child, and that experience has inspired him to help out anyone in need, regardless of the danger or insignificance. This can lead him to self-destructive acts, but he commits those anyway.

Lemongrab I shall discuss as if there was only one. Nobody understands Lemongrab. Including his mom. She has expectations of him which are incredibly high. After all, she is an incredibly capable person. But Lemongrab is not. She thinks that he doesn't get along with others, so she does give him no citizens, which he actually wants. She thinks he wants food, so she sends it, but he just makes citizens. He tries to be a ruler like her, but he is forced to live in the shadow of his creator, unable to reach her level. Then he blames her for it, because she made him that way. Let's translate this to a cliché: "MOM! I'm your kid! You should support me in my art major! I just want to be successful like you were!" "Sorry babe, but I don't think you can support yourself at that level. You can draw in your free time, but why don't you study something that YOU can actually do!" "I HATE YOU!" "I WISH YOU WERE A SON!"

...

cough

...

...anyway. Lemongrab is jealous of his mom. He even makes plans to destroy her kingdom in "All Your Fault." Honestly, he doesn't even like ruling candy people. He thinks they are gross. But ruling is in his blood.

He also has rooms with catcher's mitts. That might reference not being able to play catch with his parent, a classic American stereotype for a parent who does not spend enough time with their kid. Or I might be reading too much into a random joke.

Pup Gang On the subject of Lemongrab, these delinquents sold themselves into virtual slavery under Lemongrab for money to give their

delinquent mothers, so that hopefully they'll show us the love we always dreamed about in our sad, young lives!

Thes sad, young lives are implied to be the reason that they turned to crime. This is heavy social commentary. Without positive parental influence, kids in bad neighborhoods stay bad.

The Magi This one is just blatant. The magi brings inanimate objects to life, but they are always evil because he is stuck thinking about his father, who always considered him a failure. Sadly, the good thoughts he feels for his mother are no less unhealthy. Those hug beings were creepy., capable of overpowering a supercharged Gumball Guardian, and were perfectly willing to die on command. Still, they are less dangerous than Little Dude was.

Fun fact: Finn ends by wishing Little Dude back to life, saying that he was only doing what he was made to do. He didn't choose to be bad.

A common complaint about the Fionna and Cake episodes is that they are overly sexualized in nature. It bothers me as well, but I think it can be justified, so I will do so.

To summarize the complaints, have a link to an annoyed fan's post:

Fionna over-sexualized for a 14 year old, clothing not practical for a supposed "adventurer." So much less innocence with Fionna than Finn. Show no longer feels like "Adventure Time" with Fionna and Cake, it feels like "Cheesy attempted romance with Fionna and Cake."

For fairness' sake, some think that Fionna's appearance is encouraging, because it challenges the scrawny part of the "scrawny white girl" view of beauty.

Now, my thoughts.

First of all, the episodes are making fun of fanfiction. Fanfiction often concernes itself with inane shipping or unlikely sexualization. When someone as sexually frustrated as the Ice King writes fanfiction, we should count ourselves lucky that nothing worse comes of it. But I agree that the short skirt and shoes are pretty ridiculous for an adventurer.

But my main point is that anything other than romance would not make sense with Fionna and Cake. The complaint is that they always are having relationship episodes instead of adventure episodes, but Finn and Jake can have adventures, so why should they switch to the gender-bent world for that? If the argument for that is that another universe with strong female characters is needed, Ooo already has some. Look at "Lady and Peebles" or "My Two Favorite People." Bubblegum and Lady can be better adventurers than Finn and Jake. And Marceline is a strong, positive character despite her tortured past. Adventure episodes with Fionna and Cake would be superfluous. We see enough of them fighting to know that they can handle themselves, so more adventuring would almost be a waste of their characters.

The only justification for Fionna and Cake is that they can accomplish things that the normal AT world cannot. One of those things is fan service, but because the only difference between F&C and F&J is their gender, the only things for which F&C should be used are gender related things. Relationships are simply the best things to fit the order.

Another reason to use F&C for relationships is that they can be used to explore things which cannot be explored by Finn and Jake without major continuity problems. Fionna and Cake are in a seperate universe, so the writers can play with relationships to their hearts' content, because they have no need to bother with continuity. (For example, our culture expects males to start a relationship; having the central character be female leads to different possibilities for exploring flirting from another angle.) Doing that in Ooo would have permanent consequences for the show. The only other thing which would need a seperate universe for continuity is killing a main character, and nobody wants that in the "Fionna and Cake"-iverse. We have Prismo and the Time Room for that.

This doesn't excuse the myriad sexual references in the episodes and the over-exaggeration of Fionna's femininity. The only excuse for that is basically, "LULZZZZ!!! I SEEZ WAT U DID THERE!! FANFIC RITERS ARE PEDOSSSS!!! I GET TEH JOKES!!!"

But honestly, there's already a lot of hidden inuendo in AT.

Like... every time they want flame protect they can get it... Finn could kiss flame princess if he held her.