/r/Rowing

Photograph via snooOG

A place to discuss all things rowing!

Welcome to /r/Rowing!

First, a few resources so they don't get buried:


The single most commonly posted question/discussion: I'm thinking of buying an indoor rowing machine. What should I buy?

This or a variant of it is the THE most common, repeated topic of this sub-Reddit. Before you post, read this: Erg Shaped Objects (ESOs)

Your post will be locked if it's clearly addressed in the above discussion.

TL;DR: Concept2 is the gold standard and despite supply chain issues with the pandemic, you can get one in under a week if you put in some effort. Rogue Fitness USA & Canada gets new stock once or twice a week, usually 150-250 rowers at a time. They sell out in about 45 minutes.


If you want a Concept2 Model D, follow /u/lyothan's advice (here) to use a page monitoring site: https://visualping.io/


Other machines of value: legit "WaterRower brand" water tank rowers, RowPerfect RP3, Oartec DX and Slider, older Concept2 Model C, possibly Model B. See the ESO post for more.


I'm trying to improve my erg times. How do?

"You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems." - James Clear

First, get your form down.

  • Row Australia has GREAT videos on technique and setup:

  • And C2's video is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zWu1yuJ0_g&feature=emb_title

  • Dark Horse Rowing's YouTube channel is a great resource with videos that demonstrate proper rower setup and technique and more advanced workout videos.

  • Use the force curve on the Concept2 PM3, PM4, or PM5 as a feedback tool on form: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve

    We have a weekly, judgement-free form critique thread where you can post a video if you'd like feedback. We STRONGLY suggest using a tripod-type selfie stick at about shoulder height, 90-degrees to the side with the full slide in view so we can clearly see your entire technique. Don't move the camera - this isn't a dynamic artsy video, it's a technical one. (the Row Australia videos linked above are good guides)

    Have a plan.

    The Concept2 workout of the day is a good start, as is the Pete Plan for Beginners. (skip the optional workouts in square brackets) You'll eventually be thinking things are too easy - then you can add intensity, duration, or volume. (and that could take months)

    Steady State Results: 2 months in. The Hype is REAL!

    Use tools to help track progress automatically.

    Use an app that syncs to the Concept2 online logbook so you can track progress. ErgData, ASensei, ErgZone, and KREW all do that and present data differently. ErgData is the most basic (freebie from C2) where the others offer built in guided workouts and premium subscription options. (links below)


    What's a drag factor?

    The lever on the side of the fan of a Concept2 rower changes how much air is allowed in/out of the fan assembly and affects how quickly it slows. Rowing is a cardiovascular exercise, not weightlifting. A common mistake is setting drag too high.

    Credit to RowPerfect UK for their comprehensive article on drag factor (which you should read), we're cribbing some recommendations:

    C2 Drag Factor for Children

    • Year 7 – below 100 to 100 (girls & boys) (use the speed strap to go below 100)

    • Year 8 – 100 (girls) 110 (boys)

    • Year 9 – 105 (girls) 115 (boys)

    • Year 10 – 110-115 (girls) 120-125 (boys)

    C2 Drag Factor for Adults

    • Male heavyweight (over 75 kg) – 125-140

    • Male lightweight (under 75 kg) – 120-135

    • Female heavyweight (over 61.5 kg) – 120-130

    • Female lightweight (under 61.5 kg) – 115-125

    There is specific advice for Masters Rowers C2 Drag Factors

    To give masters specific rowers parameters for setting the drag factor, I asked various masters and coaches to share their experiences. Here’s what I learned. A 45+ male lightweight rower told me he rows with a drag of 115-120. He used to row around 130, but as he ages, he’s discovered that he has to watch the stress he puts on his back. A 35+ lightweight male told me he likes to row with low resistance of 100 because it feels more like being on the water and is easier on his back. A 60+ lightweight woman rows between 100 and 110, and a 50+ heavyweight woman rows at 120.

    Further reading/watching:


    Connected Apps

    Erging is great for physical fitness and it's low-impact once you determine optimal drag factor and get your form right. Unlike cycling, however, your hands aren't free to poke at things like tablets, phones, newspapers so using connected apps helps pass time and make it more engaging.

    /u/gigimarie90 was kind enough to post a review of several rowing-centric fitness services, here:

    Questions about virtual rowing class options? Here are my thoughts!

    ...and here are links to most of the available erging apps:

    • ErgData by Concept2, for Android & iOS - the most BASIC but functional app, acts as a second data-screen, giving you the option to display more and different data fields from those on the PM3/PM4/PM5, and displays live drag factor. Syncs with Concept2 online logbook.

    • ErgRace Online by Concept2, for Android & iOS - live, online, multi-user lane racing. Feel free to organize your races right here on /r/Rowing - one person needs to host and others join with a code.

    • EXR Rowing - in beta but available for iOS, Android, and PC. syncs with Concept2 online logbook, as well as Strava. Graphics have been upgraded, it features structured workouts, challenges, and seems poised to become "Zwift for rowers."

    • KREW (Android) - guided workouts, auto-programs the PM5, free, subscription service adds audio feedback and a few other features, syncs with Concept2 online logbook.

    • ASensei (iOS) - similar to KREW, syncs with Concept2 online logbook.

    • Regatta (iOS) - subscription service that seems like an alternative to closed ecosystems like Peloton or iFit, syncs with Concept2 online logbook.

    • ErgZone (Android, iOS), syncs with Concept2 online logbook.

    • Kinomap - actual video footage of rows. (Android, iOS) - can be cast to a big screen or used on a tablet or smartphone.

    • CityRow Go - think "spin class but with rowers", supports the WaterRower with comm module as well as Concept2 PM5s running three-digit firmware. (green logo)

    • ErgMonkey - Analytics platform.

    • Float - iOS and Android, detailed stroke analysis.

    • ErgWorld - web-based online racing. Massive caveat: CPU requirements grow exponentially as you add rowers. (someone joked that if you have more than two people trying to connect, it would melt a Cray supercomputer)

    • Zwift rowing is dead. (though you can hack it to work, with your avatar being on a bike)

    More apps: https://www.concept2.com/service/software/apps

    Putting a phone in a cradle on top of the performance monitor is the cheapest way to add some interactivity. If you have a bit more money to invest a TV or even a thrift store LCD monitor with an AppleTV on the back attached via some kind of mounting arm or a separate stand would give you a bigger screen experience for the apps above.

    Concept2 sells a plastic phone cradle that fits the PM3, PM4 and PM5. There are 3D printed options, and Vapor Fitness makes a reinforced silicone cradle in several colours that fits the PM5.

    God-Tier Coxing (NSFW language)

    Top comment sums it up: "This makes me want to run through a brick wall."

    https://old.reddit.com/r/Rowing/comments/aues8c/just_a_friendly_reminder_to_the_coxswains_that/

    /r/Rowing

    111,430 Subscribers

    1

    Washing a sea bag (idk what it's called in English)

    Unsure how to tag this or if this is the right sub, sorry.

    So this year I joined my school's rowing team, I'm still pretty new to the sport. There's a rowing trip planned for the fall break and I managed to get a used sea bag from a family friend who also used to be in this rowing team. In principle everything is fine with it, it's sealed, no holes, all good. BUT it smells very strange from being in storage for years and years and I was hoping to remedy that somehow. I know I can't just chuck it in the washing machine, my idea was washing it in the bathtub with lukewarm water and some detergent, that way I can also scrub some of the stains off. Would that work or should I use a different method? Any advice is appreciated!

    0 Comments
    2024/10/05
    11:10 UTC

    50

    17M 175cm 158lbs. Am I cooking?

    24 Comments
    2024/10/05
    02:25 UTC

    0

    Looking for a compact rowing machine...

    If nothing else, I'm getting a C2. But, short of that, any other recommendations for a compact, small footprint, easy to store away, rowing machine that you recommend?

    Thank you in advance.

    9 Comments
    2024/10/04
    23:43 UTC

    47

    Rowing at the gym makes me hate myself

    Hey guys,

    Sooooo... I just started going to the gym. I'm 5'7, overweight, and trying to get back in shape. I love running, but being overweight makes it risky for the knees, so rowing felt like a good option.

    Sooo... I try to go for 30 min session. After 5 times to the gym, my record is 5900meter. I got blister all over my palm and I feel like going faster would break my back.

    Feeling quite proud of myself I go to "Rowinglevel.com" and here we go :

    Your Rowing Level is Beginner ★

    Over 5800 m you're faster than 0 % of male rowers aged 35

    Not gonna lie, this is hard. I mean, it's ok to be a beginner, but I feel like I'm not even in beginner territory but in "You are a piece of useless trash and should stop" territory.

    So... I would take any advice here. I feel lost

    55 Comments
    2024/10/04
    21:35 UTC

    1

    NK Speedcoach mount design - thoughts

    I've designed a mount for a NK Speedcoach, but before I lock in the design and go to the expense of making some, I'd love to get some feedback and opinion.

    I don't want to show any photos of the prototype just yet, but I can tell you the basics.

    • Alloy mount, bent

    • fits on to foot stretcher track and tightens with a wingnut

    • no separate plastic part like the NK 'T' bracket

    • offset design (unlike NK 'T') that means you can fit the Speedcoach in even with a boat where the foot stretcher track is right beside the side of the hull.

    • hard anodised for wear

    It's pretty simple and elegant. Quick to install. Should fit all boats.

    Does anyone have any questions or thoughts about it?

    1 Comment
    2024/10/04
    18:04 UTC

    11

    First crack at half marathon

    Not sure how to feel. Bewildered.

    1 Comment
    2024/10/04
    20:34 UTC

    2

    negative splitting

    i’m going to try to negative split for the first time in a 2k and wanted to know how much higher should be my split for the start let’s say i need to average 1:42 should i start with 1:44 and then slowly lower it? any advice would be appreciated

    13 Comments
    2024/10/04
    20:08 UTC

    19

    First sub 19 min 5k

    35 male 5'11" / 1.8 m 180 lbs / 81.65 kg

    After taking a long time off I started using my concept2 about 11 in addition to some kettlebell and body weight exercises. I just finished my second round of the Pete Plan and I am really happy with the improvement.

    I was tired at the end but didn't fall over dying like I did last time I tried (19:07). It felt great knowing I was going to hit it after the first 3k and I am sure that gave me good energy.

    Thanks to this community!

    3 Comments
    2024/10/04
    20:03 UTC

    1

    RP3 rowing app for Concep2

    I love the rowing app information on the RP3 and am wondering if anyone has found an app with that amount of information for the concept2. Thanks!

    5 Comments
    2024/10/04
    19:48 UTC

    1

    Head of the hooch and hurricane helene

    I’m rowing at hooch late this October and am lowk nervous ab how the hurricane has affected the waters and surrounding area. Is head of the hooch gonna still be on?

    2 Comments
    2024/10/04
    19:03 UTC

    16

    2k test

    Any tips on improvements

    5 Comments
    2024/10/04
    18:13 UTC

    0

    Is 26:20 a good 5k on the max drag coefficient for a new rower?

    I started rowing recently on a concept2 erg and did a 26:20 5k at about 30-32 s/m at 160 drag coefficient. I’m having a hard time finding standards for rowing at a higher drag coefficient, so any input would be useful so that I can set reasonable goals for improvement. I’m rowing at a higher drag because I’m doing it for strength conditioning as well as being able to more comfortably do more extreme white water rafting.

    18 Comments
    2024/10/04
    18:12 UTC

    35

    Is this a good first 5k

    157 lb 16m I was given a rate cap by coach.

    18 Comments
    2024/10/04
    16:30 UTC

    5

    Recovering from an injury and tried a steady state (138 lbs), any feedback [read body text]

    I clicked rerow without realizing that it wasn't a single time interval so pardon my mistake I've been recovering from an injury and I've been trying to get back up to how I was but I haven't erged in a long time I'm 138 pounds and I'm curious if this is a good pace to be at for a steady state at my weight

    3 Comments
    2024/10/04
    14:35 UTC

    37

    First 4x4K of the year

    3 Comments
    2024/10/04
    13:41 UTC

    6

    Advancing as a coach

    I wrote a while back about strugling to advance as a coach and I've had a few updates since then.

    1. The community outreach program designed to develop rowing in the low soceoeconomic area around the regatta centre has stopped operations, they had funding for another year but my state organisation decided to buy a fleet of high performance boats (the kids were no where near the ability to use even normal club level boats) for the organisation and put operations on pause, they basically intend to shut the program down and sell off the boats to make a profit/ to clubs they like, which given the organisations status as a charity is legally ambiguous.

    Feelings are a little hurt from that as I was basically running its daily operations for 3 years and the state organisation ceo promoted incompetent outsiders to manager over me multiple times, without even considering me. The operation failed because of basic admin things I didnt have the authority to do.

    1. Got rejected from a exhebition tour, saw this one coming as coaches are pre selected by several influential people "unoffically" before the trip was even advertised. I overheard them talking on this one and had other big name coaches confirm it a month before the rejection.

    So yeah this is illegal I believe at a federal level but at least in my state it is a crime to advertise jobs falsley.

    1. I applied as a state assistant coach for nationals, I believe I'm more than qualified to take a state team having rowed in many but I figured there are that many crews the several people with influence could only pre select so many leaving at least a few open slots for full coaches and normal selections for the assistant coaches.

    "Assistant Coach is more clearly defined as a development role, and we encourage coaches who would not ordinarily feel qualified to take on a crew themselves to apply as an Assistant Coach. You will team up with the Primary Crew Coach to help develop your crew, and develop your knowledge and skills as the season unfolds. You'll be a valuable member of the team. This is a truly special development opportunity."

    Even though its a trainee role I figure I need to play the game, and I applied for the least desiereable crews to really give myself the best chance.

    1. the boys season didnt exactly land me the crew I wanted, I was hoping for literally anything other than 1st years and got 1st years. Its only my second year at this school but there were talks of me taking a 3rd yr or senior 8, but all of the coaches returned so there was no where for me to go. I filled in a lot with the seniors last year taking an 8 for half the season and was hoping to get one this season.

    Im not mad about this one, and I dont hate coaching new rowers its just between schools, club and the program I've coached close to 4000 new rowers in the last few years and I have it down to a fine art, but Im equally skilled at mid and high performance coaching so its very monatanous, even though the kids are awesome and I enjoy myself.

    1. The girls season remains unknown, but its looking like a promising season coaches will be assigned crews in the next couple of months.

    2. Club rowings going well, I've started coaching a local club( jr girls), started with 3-4 regulars and worked up to an 8 most days, competed at states didnt medal but there were no crews their age anywhere near them, closest was 5 lengths, they were only first years and were racing seniors I coached at school several years ago. Most are coming back for additional training after states, something new to me and the club, so Im taking this as a win/ sign Im doing something right.

    Advice last time was about dealing with the "boys club", but the influential people are "mean girls" just old, they hate eachother and its impossible to get on their good side, so yeah just feel like my hands are tied.

    Sorry for the long rant

    8 Comments
    2024/10/04
    10:57 UTC

    225

    Best way to start the morning

    19 Comments
    2024/10/04
    10:44 UTC

    3

    Flexibility

    I’m really struggling with my hip flexibility. I can’t seem to get over my hips fast and because I don’t hinge I don’t drive my hips back so I end up opening my back. Any tips for getting better hinge and maybe some stretches I should do?

    3 Comments
    2024/10/03
    23:30 UTC

    16

    Has anyone experimented with having Fat2’s the same length as smoothies?

    Was reading this on bio row and wanted to see if anyone has tried this?

    https://biorow.com/index.php?route=information/news/news&news_id=67

    4 Comments
    2024/10/03
    20:28 UTC

    11

    Geoff Bond Lawsuit moves forward

    He decimated the Penn program, and when his contract was not renewed he moved on to UCSD. This lawsuit was originally filed a few years ago and continues to make it's way through the courts. https://www.courthousenews.com/suit-accusing-rowing-coach-of-abusive-behavior-that-triggered-suicide-advances/

    5 Comments
    2024/10/03
    18:48 UTC

    8

    Rower slamming blades in at catch

    Hi,

    When rating/intensity starts to get up, I’ve got a usually very technically tidy rower who will slam her blades in at the catch which in turn causes them to bury too deep.

    Does anyone have any advice on drills we could try use or phrasing of what I could say to try improve this?

    *** this is for a sculler

    16 Comments
    2024/10/03
    18:41 UTC

    4

    Blisters!! HELP

    Hi y’all! So I joined my hs rowing team this fall! I love it so much! But I have such bad blisters I can barely erg! Any ideas?

    32 Comments
    2024/10/03
    17:06 UTC

    1

    My son was recruited to UW rowing team as a sophomore and then got cut

    We are new to the rowing world and we're not told during the recruitment phase that my son could be cut from the team - naive and lots of lessons, guilt, and pain right now. What advice can I give my son right now to help him, he is feeling lost and devastated. He was a walk-on freshman year at GWU and during UW tryouts the last 2 weeks ranking well on ERG and all off water assesssments but fell short on small boat skills (he's only had 2 months of experience at Craftsbury this summer). Should he try again!?!

    2 Comments
    2024/10/03
    14:11 UTC

    0

    Looking for a budget friendly machine

    Hey guys, I'm looking for a machine on behalf of my sister. Unfortunately the C2 is too expensive with the budget being ~400 USD. It doesn't have to be anything spectacular, just comfortable to use and within the budget. If anyone knows of anything that fits that criteria, I'd gladly take recommendations. Thanks!

    5 Comments
    2024/10/03
    15:34 UTC

    17

    Erg piece outside v inside?

    Do you get a better score if you row outdoors on a nice day v. inside. Went 25 secs faster today on a 5k. I’m a late 60’s ltwt.

    2 Comments
    2024/10/03
    15:12 UTC

    1

    How fast to ramp up training (erg + weights)?

    Background: I am a former high school lightweight who is now in grad school and is very much an heavy weight. Took undergrad off from rowing due to burnout from being bow of the heavy 8 and stroke of the light 8.

    Though I know training for rowing is very much just 80/20, more steady state, and weights for injury prevention, how fast would you guys ramp up training? (assuming you have a lot of free time to train)

    I am just doing 3 days of lifting based off of the “Row Stronger” book and 3 days of 3x20 with hr under 150. Ironically, I have my reverse problem from high school, I am so much stronger but severely out of cardiovascular shape (I can do a 2:10 @ 18 for what feels like steady state, but with HR sub 150, that becomes like a 2:29).

    My questions is, if I am seeing good progress here, should I just milk it out for a couple months? Or should I add in more steady state on weights days? Or increase the amount of steady on my steady days?

    Side question: how long would you guys stay with a program before ramping it up? My gut tells me 3 months to see actual adaptation just like in lifting, but honestly unsure.

    Would love some opinions here, because of the nature of my program and my job, I can get in like 20 hours of training a week without being irresponsible or having no social life so I really want to take this time to get fast again because I miss competing.

    6 Comments
    2024/10/03
    14:09 UTC

    2

    No sensation in legs

    I did indoor rowing for 25 mins today after watching technique videos for hours this morning. My heart rate hardly reached zone 2 range and even though I did some drills mentioned in dark horse rowing channel, I barely feel anything on my legs, like no blood circulation there. I had leg muscle sore after heavy leg workout done 2 days ago. Just to understand this better I switched to indoor cycling after rowing and wow .. my legs feel so much better, I feel that blood flow is happening in leg. Why am I missing this while rowing? I expected to feel something (it's not that there is connection missing with my brain) on my leg today at least as I have leg muscle sore.

    Update : Here is the link of my form https://c.gmx.net/@398222868577524500/HVn8h7PlSAeuwd5rMiJTSw

    Looking for corrections from the experts!

    16 Comments
    2024/10/03
    13:12 UTC

    87

    My daughter is in her first college regatta this weekend - we’ve never seen a race ever. How do we watch?

    My daughter joined her NCAA rowing team as a novice - she never rowed before and she surprised us two weeks ago when she called and told she had tried out and made the team. We’re incredibly proud of her.

    Anyway, she’s in a race this weekend on a River, and we have no idea how to even watch. Do you move with the boat? I read that biking along js a thing? I’ll have my nice camera setup with me, so if I stay stationary, should I do that mid course or near the finish?

    We’re clueless!

    37 Comments
    2024/10/03
    13:00 UTC

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