This is mostly a vent. Some of my family (not Reformed) are 'caught up' in a series on Revelation by pastor Dave Jones (Royston Bethel Church in UK), who was ordained by Assemblies of God.

While I'm not dogmatic about eschatology, the rapture and premillennialism bug me, primarily because they imagine Christ taking up an earthly throne, when he already indicated that his kingdom is not of this world, and he's already on the ultimate throne as the King of kings.

Pastor Jones teaches by tearing down what I consider straw man arguments that he variously projects onto "some Christians" or "all Christians."

I've been watching the vids with family and staying quiet.

Now I've associated his British accent with my irritation.

He never presents alternative arguments, including the historical pre-19th century biblical views. Contrast this with RC Sproul who, for example, presented the believers' baptism argument better than most baptists can.

Please share any feedback or your experiences if you like!

Protestants often quote 2 Timothy 3:15-17 as a go-to verse to prove sola scriptura.

But some point out that v. 16 can be rendered "every scripture". If so, would this not mean that every individual book is the sole infallible rule of faith?

Further, Protestants will point out v. 17 where it says that scripture makes "man perfect in every good work". In response, some go to the following verses to show how keeping from bad influences and endurance make man ready for any good work and perfect and complete respectively.

If he keeps himself from bad influences, he will be ready for any good work (2 Timothy 2:21)

Endurance makes man perfect and complete (James 1:4)

à Brakel is clear to understand and makes a lot of great points. I certainly there are people here who have read it.

So long story short, I am a young woman trying to figure out what on earth God would have me do with my life (particularly in a job). And I have no idea, or at least no perfect pinpointed "this is My exact will for you" idea. And I'm freaking out trying to figure it out.

I grew up next door to my Grandpa's farm and have been working on a dairy farm caring for calves for a year and a half now. I'm interested in farming but don't feel that I fit very well into much of the occupation due to my inexperience and my gender.

I just got hired by an assisted living facility to help care for elderly residents, most of whom require a lot of assistance with daily tasks - personal hygiene especially. This (minus the personal hygiene) appealed to me initially as I think it is important, meaningful work and I love the elderly. However, I'm quite uncomfortable with the personal hygiene part, especially with the opposite sex, which is a big part of the job. I'm uncomfortable enough that I have decided to (embarrassingly and as apologetically as possible) inform my boss that I quit.

I feel awful about this especially because I just got hired, though have only done 3 half-days of "training" (following another worker around and observing what they do all day).

I also feel bad about it because I originally sort of felt that God was "calling" me to this kind of work. I'm not sure whether that's really true or not; regardless, I feel that I'm not a good enough fit for the job, so I'm not going to continue with it.

Point is -- I have no idea what God wants me to do!! I'm stuck between:

• "God has a specific job He wants me to do and I've got to figure out what that is and do it, otherwise I'm dishonoring/disobeying Him"

And

• "Barring a distinct and undeniable 'calling' from God, I am free to do whatever job I want to, so long as it isn't sinful, and then I am to just glorify God in whatever I'm doing"

The two things I'm considering now are agriculture, and some sort of receptionist/secretary job. Those are my interests. But sometimes I feel bad, like I'm "not supposed to" follow my interests, but rather I am to "deny myself," give up my interests, and surrender to God and whatever He would have me do.

Are these mutually exclusive things?? Am I "allowed" to pursue a job I'm interested in, even if it doesn't seem as "important" as something else? (I.e. a desk job answering phone calls being "less important" than caring for the elderly)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like this, but I am so stuck in it and not sure how to handle it.

Any advice and/or biblical insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Only 3 atonement theories seem to make a faithful attempt at explaining why/how it was necessary for Christ to deliver us from the demands and accusation of the Law of Moses. These three (regardless of how legitimate they may be) are"

1. Penal substitution

2. Satisfaction theory

3. New Covenant theology

I am hard pressed to see how other theories might be viable if they don't fill this prerequisite although I am non-resistant to learning from them as well. Might as well as I've frequently heard it argued that Christus Victor is compatible with penal sub. for instance.

People in my church keep telling me to carry my cross and try to understand what it is that my ab*sive husband wants..

They refuse to acknowledge that word even.

My favorite is Psalm 84. I love how the sons of Korah describe how they long for the Lord and faint for Him, and how one day with the Lord is better than thousands elsewhere. It’s a great reminder for us that the Lord is what satisfies and makes us truly happy, not the small and temporary things of this world.

Keep seeing all these guys and other reformed folks bickering on Twitter and really don’t understand the origins and the doctrines/principles at hand.

Beyond the conflict of personalities, what are the real issues that are being argued and what (if any) implications are there for the wider reformed movement?

Im struggling with various forms of doubt and I feel really burnt out

Im struggling with the reformation- not that they were wrong, but that they were completely right. I just cant help but feel they read some biases into the bible. Im struggling with faith alone, not because I dont think its true, but because I dont think its the gospel or the story of the bible

I feel like if jesus came back and taught exactly what he taught, he would be accused of preaching a works-based salvation. I used to think the jews were works based, but now it seems to me from reading the bible and other sources that they thought their identity as childs of abraham/circumsized saved them, (simular to the average church goer) and the pharisees were just plain hypocrites

Im also having doubts about *how* to know what I believe. I thought the church fathers were a reliable source but now I realize they believed alot of different things and that they seemed to believe in things that we dont like baptism acutally washing away sins, or perpetual viginity, etc

and I know we have the bible now but you can really read into and twist what the bible says to fit a narrative.

I was really reformed-calvinist for a few months as it made the most sense to me but now holes are showing up to me. Reading crazy love by francis chan really set me on edge. I feel frustrated by not knowing what God wants from me. I feel like with the sola fide I have to read the gospels with my eyes closed.

through these doubts, God feels really far away. I feel like im focusing on my doubts more then God. I feel frustrated because I dont know how to please God. I want to feel close to God again and understand what he wants from me

When I read the bible, I feel like what ive been told is only one part of the story. I *know* I cant be perfect or sinless. But the answer ''just have faith'' feels unsatisfying.

these are just a glimpse of the problems Im having. Im also really struggling with the idea of who is within the bounds of christianity and who isnt. I cant really get all my thoughts out right now.

C.S lewis is an author that really help me but I struggle because he has some unorthodox veiws, like his inclusivism. It bothers me because it makes his work less helpful, because I just dont think that inclusivism is very biblical, so his conclusions cant be as satisfying

Im thinking of reading N.T wright because what ive heard about his work interests me. I was reading this random christian book on poverty allieviation and it talks about the difference between a ''star treck jesus'' that just beams us out of the world and the biblical jesus that is focused on creating a earthly kingdom that effects every area of our life (while not denying the ressurection or the importance of salvation and sharing the gosple)

because honestly the idea of God just shifting through and choosing his elect even if true (I have complicated feelings about election but I think I beleive it) makes it sound like earth is a ranch where God raises a few cattle he likes, at least the way some people describe it. I feel like there must be some more connection of Gods actual plan for humanity and what he wasnts

I know the reformed crowd here is going to be mixed on his work but I trust this subreddit more then other christian ones where I dont know what kind of advice Ill get. Im scared of doing more harm then good though, and i dont really know what else to do

NCT has caught my attention lately at the time I am about to start my yearly Bible reading plan.

With a view of seeing how the covenants of the OT see their fulfillment, what questions do you ask of yourself as you read the OT (or the whole of Scripture, for that matter)? I’m curious to know if NCTers might read the Scriptures uniquely compared to CTers.

I don’t know where to begin. It’s not all about me, I’ve just been going through (perhaps TO) hell, and as a hopefully prodigal son with exposure to the Reformed tradition, I know you all take scripture seriously and I’m encouraged by this.

I was baptized in an SBC church at 7 years old following a “sinner’s prayer” style request for Jesus to “come into my heart.” I’ve heard theologians talk about how this is problematic since. I thought I understood and believed the gospel. Now I look back and don’t know if it was ever true, given how much I’ve sinned since.

I felt I stopped believing in middle school age. I began attending church with my high school sweetheart who became my wife later, was involved with college ministry, then due to church hurt and major news-making scandals we both left the church in protest.

I continued to pursue spirituality, she did not. I got myself involved with Western Esotericism/Occultism in an attempt to find spiritual truth. All manner of dangerous beliefs and practices (no, not child sacrifice or anything harmful to anyone else but myself). I screwed up. Big time. The username on this account tells a story.

I just woke up one day and through no act of my own, realized how much this type of spirituality and my lifestyle was destroying my life.

I think I reverted to an agnosticism/atheism following this, but I cannot settle my mind about basic existential questions. It has brought no comfort or joy, and I cannot shake my previous spiritual experiences. I cannot rid myself of the pull to Christ. Suppressing the truth in unrighteousness?

In the midst of this, I have had serious physical and mental health scares. Suffice it to say that it has felt like I’ve been dying in various periods. I am terrified of dying, but I’m more terrified of dying spiritually and getting what I deserve. I realize my need for a savior. I miss the riches, comfort, and beauty of a relationship with Christ (did I ever have it truly?)

I am at the lowest I have ever been, physically, mentally, spiritually. I ask for your prayers, rebuke, counsel, conversation. I’m truly all ears. I have no idea where to go from here, or if I was ever truly saved.

Most importantly, I beg Christ for his forgiveness and that He would allow me into his Kingdom, even though I do not deserve it. I pray that His presence would overcome my self-delusion through the gift of faith, and that he would also bless my wife with the same, and that we would grow together in God.

If you have requests that you would like your brothers and sisters to pray for, post them here.

Hi! Same as title. More about the plan:

”On day one, you read Matthew 1, Genesis 1, Romans 1, and so forth. On day 2, read Matthew 2, Genesis 2, etc. On day 29, you will have just finished Matthew, so go to Mark 1 on the Gospel list; you’ll also be almost to the end of 2nd Corinthians and Proverbs, you’ll be reading Psalm 29 and Genesis 29, and so forth. When you reach the last chapter of the last book in a list – start over again. Rotate all the way through all the Scriptures constantly.

Since the lists vary in length, the readings begin interweaving in constantly changing ways. You will NEVER read the same set of ten chapters together again! Every year you’ll read through all the Gospels four times, the Pentateuch twice, Paul’s letters 4-5 times each, the OT wisdom literature six times, all the Psalms at least twice, all the Proverbs as well as Acts a dozen times, and all the way through the OT History and Prophetic books about 1 ½ times.

Since the interweaving is constantly changing, you will experience the Bible commenting on itself in constantly changing ways -- the Reformer's principle of 'scriptura interpretans scripturam' -- 'scripture interpreting scripture' IN ACTION!”

Happy Lord's Day to r/reformed! Did you particularly enjoy your pastor's sermon today? Have questions about it? Want to discuss how to apply it? Boy do we have a thread for you!

Sermon Sunday!

Please note that this is not a place to complain about your pastor's sermon. Doing so will see your comment removed. Please be respectful and refresh yourself on the rules, if necessary.

A common tension is between predestination and human responsibility, but in reading Calvin's Institutes, I come to realize that there seems to be a healthier orientation of having a profound gratitude for God's work and goals in our lives rather than our orientation towards God being about earning salvation. Is this a correct understanding? Ultimately, our responsibility is in glorifying God and conformity to Christ is the most correct path in doing so.

Only perfection can be in God's presence. How can the Holy Spirit, who is God, dwell in us when we, and the world around us are imperfect?

I’m looking for recommendations of good Christmas music from the last few years. I have pretty eclectic taste; favorite Christmas albums include those by Andrew Peterson, Future of Forestry, Sufjan Stevens, Low, Choir of King’s College-Cambridge, Michael Card, Over the Rhine, Leigh Nash, and Bifrost Arts.

If you have requests that you would like your brothers and sisters to pray for, post them here.

Are churches planning to celebrate the 1,700th Anniversary of the Nicene Creed in 2025?

Is the season of Advent with the wreath and the candles of Hope, Peace, Joy and Love, is that something used in a Reformed congregation? If not, help me understand what it isn't.
Thank you in advance!

How do we really determine which aspects of theology are indisputable and which are not? One practice that has specifically been on my mind is baptism. It seems as if most theologically Reformed circles maintain that baptism is not an act bestowing justification in itself, yet the practice is essential to the Christian life. As a Baptist, I am convinced that baptism is for confessing believers and by immersion. But as I consider having a family with children, I am deeply concerned by the possibility of denying my children something which God commands. Doing something “just to be safe,” however, is not a proper way to approach theology.

Ultimately, my concern stems from this sentiment: If all who believe have been given the Holy Spirit for discernment, why do we still disagree on so much?

As I continue my journey from EV Baptist to reformed, I’d like to understand a good read in the next step.

I’ve read Sprouls “What is reformed theology?” And that was great. I’d like to move onto something more substantive, without cannonballing into some four volume set.

I do like the idea of Beeke’s set, but it’s a) 4 volumes and b) I reviewed some chapters, and it aligns with the criticisms I’ve seen - that it’s overly verbose and repetitive. I do like the idea of something more contemporary though than the 17th, 18th, or 19th century. I like the fact that Beeke sourced a lot of other thinkers and tackles more contemporary issues with a pastoral bent.

Is there something in between Beeke and Vos? More contemporary but not the master work? Or is it more important to start with one of the classics so you can compare others to it? In which case - which? I have read a chapter or so from little Bavinck and found it readable. Would that be a good next step?

Beloved,

I understand the reason why God hated Esau, but why would he hate the person when he commands us to not hate? Isn’t it the equivalent of murder?

God’s ways are higher than ours but I feel like it’s not in character for God to hate his creation.

Paedobaptists, I would love to hear your thoughts on this argument from Gavin Ortlund.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-baptism/?amp=1

Repeating,

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner."

Or simply,

"Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me."

Some people just say "Jesus" or "Lord Jesus" over and over again.

If you have requests that you would like your brothers and sisters to pray for, post them here.

As we often hear parts of Revelation 12 read during Advent, the following question has come to my mind around this time of year for a number of years since the idea I am about to lay out first dawned on me. In my research, I have found little to no corroborating scholarship. That fact alone, as it should, gives me pause in considering the truthfulness and accuracy of the forthcoming interpretation. I am not emotionally (or spiritually, for that matter) invested in this idea. I am only posting this because I thought it would be enjoyable to sift it with your help and see what happens. Please, put your stakes and tinder boxes away. Now that I've got your attention, here is the passage question.

Revelation 12:1-9 (ESV)

12 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule[a] all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. 7 And war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon. The dragon and his angels fought back, 8but they were defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9The great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Traditionally, Reformed theologians interpret the Woman as a covenant community of God, be it Israel or the Church. Though others, perhaps most prominently the Roman and Lutheran Churches, have identified the Woman as Mary.

Meanwhile, the Child is almost universally interpreted to be Jesus Christ.

Lastly, the Dragon, as the passage provides, is also almost universally interpreted to be the devil, or Satan.

The first time I truly paid attention to this passage, I immediately assumed that the Woman was Mary. Yet I did not expressly discount (even before my research) the more Reformed interpretations even if I do see Mary as having a special role in the history and theology of Christianity. This is, of course, not as the Roman Catholics behold her. Rather, I see a more nuanced and matriarchal role for Mary in the sense of how we might consider Abraham as someone who, at the beginning of God moving among his people, turns wholly towards the purposes of God and, despite unknowns, fully commits. If that were not the case, the potential sacrifice at Mount Moriah and the actual sacrifice at Calvary would likely not have happened by way of the faithfulness of Abraham and Mary, specifically, respectively. (Though it surely would've happened, as God did will it.) But, I am digressing. My point is, even outside the Roman and Eastern Churches, it is not an error to behold Mary at the least as an example of patriarchal faithfulness for the people of God. So, I am comfortable seeing the Woman in v1 as a representation of all three: Mary, Israel and the Church. This sort of multiplicity is extremely common for Revelation and other eschatological books in Scripture. But, as I said, my initial assumption was as Mary.

If you take that and with it consider Christ as the Child, then the moment of v2 becomes a point in time, a temporal event, namely, the very first Christmas. And, if we are going to hold the remainder of the passage as having at least some temporal connection to the first Christmas, and that the Dragon is Satan, then it would imply that the Fall of Heaven occurred in response to the birth of Christ.

This would also imply that ha-satan, the prosecutor of the story of Job, was in that role until God provided the most perfectly merciful and inexhaustible escape from heavenly prosecution. That role ending not because the birth of Christ eliminated such prosecution, but that the prosecutor objected so vehemently to such an escape from sentencing that he sought to "devour" the Child who was the cause of it. From the very act of being born Christ brings, not peace, but a sword.

It is no longer some unexplained, unidentifiable reason why this angel fell and took a third of Heaven with him. Rather, with it being no less grave a sin than anything we might have previously imagined, the devil rebels. Please understand that I am giving no sort of pass whatsoever to the devil or his followers. Even if we might glean from this that Satan's view of justice was merely askew and his anger was some sort of righteous indignation, that he believed God to be weak or too merciful, does not make the devil any less wrong or evil. We're not talking Val Jean versus Javert here. Whatever the devil's reasoning, it is of no matter. The devil rebelled against his own Creator and rather than trust and obey in the face of full revelation of the authority and majesty of God, he still rebelled. Even within my construct over this passage, Satan remains as evil, as damned and as culpable as ever. All I am doing is providing a context. In other words, the only difference here is that we have a clear connection between cause and effect for the devil's rebellion. It wasn't some unnamed hubris. It was that Satan saw his position as more important than the very heart of God. Rather than bend to Truth, he sought to establish his own truth and impose it upon Creation by tempting the children of God into the penal sentence they deserve. Do you see parallels of New Testament descriptions of Pharisaic legalism in this?

Now, before anyone burns me at the stake, please remember that I fully recognize that this is, in a very real sense, a dangerous endeavor considering a great lack of scholarly corroboration for such an idea. At the same time, I also realize that that this is quite unimportant in the grand scheme of what we know to be true and important for the the mission of God's people and it's overall theology and how we are to operate within that. So, please do not take this as me trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm raising a topic for discussion. If you rip it apart and stomp it into dust with good scholarship I am glad. If you find a way to concur, I am also glad. I am just glad to discuss this in a scholarly manner.

It's Free For All Friday! Post on any topic you wish in this thread (not the whole sub). Our rules of conduct still apply, so please continue to post and comment respectfully.

AND on the 1st Friday of the month, it's a Monthly Fantastically Fanciful Free For All Friday - Post any topic to the sub (not just this thread), except for memes. For memes, see the quarterly meme days. Our rules of conduct still apply, so please continue to post and comment respectfully.

As the title says, I’m (19M) the Youth Pastor at my small SBC church in TN that leans Calvinist (our pastor doesn’t want us to be labeled by anything, but he’s a “biblicist,” which means he teaches what the Bible says, which happens to be Calvinism ;)).

I’ve been at this church since I was 12 and have been their Youth Pastor since January. 8 months before that, another pastor at another church took me under his wing and mentored me.

Recently, the Lord has changed my more “Arminian” theology (grew up Methodist and Free Will Baptist) into 5 Point Calvinism (I say that, but I’m still figuring out Limited Atonement fully) after I started going to my college’s RUF program and discussing theology with some of my friends (one PCA, one SBC).

Now, I’ve started to really delve into Reformed theology and lo, and behold, I came across it: Covenant Theology. I never really called myself Dispensational or really anything like that, but I’m really intrigued by Covenant Theology and am somewhat willing to embrace it (including infant baptism, which is still shocking).

So here’s the dilemma: the church I serve at is obviously not covenantal but dispensationalist. If I were to embrace Covenant Theology, that could put me at odds with my church. That’s not my main concern, but it’s there.

The big concern is that I know I’m called to ministry, probably the pastorate. It would be really hard for me to leave my position and go to a PCA church and not be serving/teaching in some capacity (the fire is in my bones, so to speak). I’ve also been recently ordained by my church. All that I’ve worked for the past year and a half would be erased if I were to switch (not to mention some potential familial issues). My church also provides me a small salary, which helps this broke college sophomore. However, if I truly want to be a pastor, I should serve/worship in a place that lines up with my views the best to prepare for future service, right?

So, what should I do? Should I leave my current position/church to go to the PCA, which may line up with my views better? Or should I stay put and continue to serve where I’m at?

The youth at my church have been through a lot because they haven’t had a Youth Pastor for years til I came around, and I definitely don’t want to leave because of them. I love my position and the people I serve, but at the same time, “deep calls for deep,” and I wonder if the Lord is calling me deeper. The Lord has definitely blessed the youth ministry, with three confessions of faith, so I know that’s where I was needed for a time, but I wonder if that season is over. Can anyone give some advice (or a slap in the face, if needed)?

EDIT: Alright, it’s been nearly 24 hours, and I think y’all have given me plenty to ponder and pray about. I appreciate everyone’s input and perspectives. For now, I’m still wrestling with theological nuances, and I am still undecided. I’ll speak with my pastor, a PCA pastor I know, my RUF minister, and some other mentors very soon though. Please keep me in your prayers throughout all of this. God bless y’all!

So for context I go to a CRC church in Canada. And the Canadian end of the CRC is significantly more liberal than the US side. My church specifically recently had a congregational meeting to answer questions about our consistory's decision to align with the CRC in regards to sexuality. One of the members at this meeting noted that he didn't think women's ordination would last any longer than a decade in the CRC. Also I am a complementarian which is a rarity for the Canadian CRC.

That made me think if it's really possible for the CRC to reverse itself on this. We've had women's ordination for a little over 30 years, meaning one and a half generations have grown up with it, but at the same time, there's only 117 women in active ministry, divided up over about 1000 congregations makes having a woman pastor a rarity in the CRC, along with the fact that only about 50% of CRC churches will actually permit women in office. So for many (possibly the majority) of CRC members women not being in office is the norm.

With the recent decision about homosexuality being laid down the proportion of complementarians to egalitarians eligible for office is going to be shifted in the favor of the complementarians, but as to how much of a shift that is remains to be seen. So I'm curious as to what other people think as to whether or not it is possible for the CRC to switch back to complementarianism. I personally think there's a possibility but I'm unsure as to the probability of it happening.